Government Run Healthcare
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Category: General Correct Craft Discussion
Forum Name: Off Topic
Forum Discription: Anything non-Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=15938
Printed Date: January-09-2025 at 4:18am
Topic: Government Run Healthcare
Posted By: davidg
Subject: Government Run Healthcare
Date Posted: December-01-2009 at 1:25am
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The healthcare debate begins tomorrow in the Senate. It seems our government is "hell-bent-for-leather" to take over the American healthcare system.
What do you guys think? Good idea, or bad idea? Are you for it or against it? I'll go first. I am against it. |
Replies:
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: December-01-2009 at 1:52am
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I think it's a great idea,I want to be on the same plan Congress will be on, after all "All men are created equal" and since my kid is going to have to pay,Im sure nothings too good for the old man
------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: critter
Date Posted: December-01-2009 at 2:01am
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Gary, but Congress voted to be exempt from the Health Care Plan. I understand that it was offered up as an option but they did not want to be included.
I am for any Health Care Plan that all are a part of. But what is not good enough for them is not good enough for me either. ------------- 1980 Ski Nautique 1966 Barracuda |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: December-01-2009 at 2:09am
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Oh I know Rodger,I was just being sarcastic. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: Waterdog
Date Posted: December-01-2009 at 10:17am
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How can the goverment start "collecting revenue" in Jan.2010 and not start health care until sometime in 2014? ------------- - waterdog - http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=3896&sort=&pagenum=2&yrstart=1978&yrend=1978" rel="nofollow - 78 Ski Tique |
Posted By: harddock
Date Posted: December-01-2009 at 10:24am
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If the government truely wanted to insure the un insured ( which wqas he premise of the healthcare bill in the first place) they could buy all the uninsured a policy and have spent less money. It is all about power and payback to contributors (law firms). They have already started a sample by suggesting that mammograms and prostate tests need not be done as often and they even are taking away home breast exams. Damn! I love home breast exams! I've done them at home, in the car, and have been for years. Now the government tells me they are unnecessary. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4487" rel="nofollow - 1998 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: 65 'cuda
Date Posted: December-01-2009 at 10:43am
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And I thought GW was completely out of touch...4 and out for the dems and Obama, think enough Americans will vote Libertarian next time? ------------- Gary http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=941" rel="nofollow - 1965 Barracuda SS |
Posted By: 75 stang
Date Posted: December-01-2009 at 10:50am
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I Pay a lot for healthcare coverage now even with my HSA and a $5000 deductable. If this goes through I expect what I pay to at least double because I am a small business owner (target). This bill will be good for someone, but not me. ------------- Take your work seriously, not yourself. http://s133.photobucket.com/albums/q70/Bigblockbandit/Lake%20and%20boats/ - Boat Pics |
Posted By: 86BFN
Date Posted: December-01-2009 at 3:07pm
If you think it's expensive now, wait till it's free! 
Two questions.... Since when has the government run anything efficient? When was the last time they took any tax off the books? ------------- đŁ Steve http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4057&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1986&yrend=1986" rel="nofollow - 86 Barefoot Nautique 89 Martinique Former Owner: 93 Hydrodyne 350 MAG |
Posted By: davidg
Date Posted: December-01-2009 at 4:53pm
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If the government says it will cost $2 Trillion, it will probably cost $10 Trillion+. This is just a pure power grab. Taking away the private sector and replacing it with the government. Get ready for run-away costs, and a shortage of poor service.
This will be like going to the Dept. of Motor Vehicles to get your physical exam. Fast, friendly, efficient service 
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Posted By: tullfooter
Date Posted: December-01-2009 at 7:33pm
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ALL OF THE ABOVE!!!!
I almost didn't open this thread, for fear there would be arguments on both sides (which there will be, I'm sure). But to my pleasant surprise, all of the above share my opinion. Our family business pays for very good health care for all of our 26 employees. Yesterday, at our annual meeting with our insurance agent, we were told our premiums will rise 14% next year. That is hard to swallow, but I would rather deal with that, than what lies down the road if the government takes over health care. 86BFN's first question is one that I pose to anyone who argues this point; What has the government, elephant or donkey lead, ever run anything better than the private sector? Granted, health care needs reform, but not like this. ------------- Play hard, life's not a trial run. '85 BFN '90 BFN White Lake, Michigan |
Posted By: behindpropeller
Date Posted: December-01-2009 at 8:09pm
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I just got this in my email 5 minutes ago, please let me know what you think.
UnitedHealthcare Mammography/Cervical Screening Guidelines Remain Unchanged The United States Preventive Services Task Force (USPSTF) recently released new guidelines for mammography screening based on a review of the medical literature. As a result, the USPSTF is recommending that regular screening for breast cancer in women begin at age 50. The previously recommended age to begin routine screening was age 40. Our coverage for mammography and cervical cancer screening is unchanged. Mammograms We consider mammography an important screening procedure, one that has resulted in the ability to detect and treat breast cancer at earlier stages of the disease and save lives: * UnitedHealthcare will continue to offer coverage of mammograms for women covered by a UnitedHealthcare insured plan when recommended by their physicians. * Customers with a self-funded plan may modify coverage based on the recently reissued guidance but must provide us with specific instructions prior to the implementation of any coverage changes. However, we strongly recommend customers follow our policy and continue with the coverage for mammography unchanged. Cervical Cancer Screening In addition, the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG) recently changed its recommendations for cervical cancer screening, advocating less frequent screening for women in their 20s. However, UnitedHealthcare is not changing its coverage policy on cervical cancer screening. As is true for mammography, we recommend that women discuss with their physicians how frequently they should undergo cervical cancer screening. An employee communication template outlining this issue is included for you to use with your employees, as appropriate. If you have questions, please contact your UnitedHealthcare representative. ------------- |
Posted By: davidg
Date Posted: December-01-2009 at 8:45pm
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I almost didn't post this thread because I didn't want to be too politically incorrect. Every now and then I will be a little politically incorrect, but not TOO incorrect. LOL! Anyway, I wanted to see what you guys thought about this. I had a feeling it may be a pretty conservative bunch. However, I would sure like to hear an alternate point of view too.
When it comes to this type discussion, I always like the saying....."If the government is big enough to give you everything you want, is is big enough to take everything you have away". Speaking of which, at one point in the recent past, Nancy Pelosi had talked about "nationalizing" American's 401K plans, to help ALL the people in this country, including the ones who may be here with, er, uhm, without "proper documentation". |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: December-01-2009 at 9:44pm
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Whole lotta if it aint broke dont fix it talk here about what a great job the private sector is doing providing us health care yet we spend way more than the rest of the world and we don't live the longest. In 2007 the US paid $5711 per person and I don't know anyone in the us who loves thier plan, in Japan it was 2249 and they live longer and none of my Japanese friends have any problems with thier coverage. They started about where we were in the 80s and then began to closely regulate what the insurers could charge and what the doctors and hospitals could charge. They don't do everything right but so far they are doing a lot better than we are.
People can talk about market forces all they want but when your dying the private sector can charge you anything and your are going to pay for it, or youll go bankrupt and I will pay for it. That is by definition not a free market. So now that some of you have read the 2057 page bill and decided to believe the people that are telling you that it will increase your health insurance costs what are your solutions to bring down health care costs so I don't watch my plant move to mexico next year. If you can do it without increasing government regulation of some sort I am all for it, you will be the first in the world to have done it. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: 62 wood
Date Posted: December-01-2009 at 11:41pm
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Get out your wallet and dig deeper. (Sound familiar?) Seems like they are more worried about getting health care for EVERYONE , and less about trying to CONTROL rising costs.
Talk about out of touch!!..They dont a have a CLUE what the average family is going thru trying to make ends meet today... ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1117&sort=&pagenum=6" rel="nofollow - 64 American Skier 62 Classic.. 73 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: December-02-2009 at 10:45am
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you must understand, they are not coming in and taking over, they are creating laws to stop the monoplies and inflated costs, the same thing they did with natural gas companies. the savings that will be created will be from gouging. the private sector would let it ride the way it is because it is very profitable...thats why the gov needs to step in....read Joe's post
the same cocept with Madoff, someone stepped in and stopped him. we dont have great helthcare in this country we have a system that includes uneeded tests, malpractice suits that inflates the system...they need caps on things like this to "regulate pricing" ITS broke and it needs fixed, who else is going to do it ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: 75 stang
Date Posted: December-02-2009 at 11:02am
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The PUCO and the state of ohio regulate power sales, electricity costs, I work for the Village of Holiday City as Mayor in my spare time. There is a lot of government control in Electricity pricing even when it was de regulated. Bottom line is under either system it did not get cheaper, the companies who provided service just found new ways to apply for charges and fees to make the money back, thru the gov't agencies. If you also take the Japanese example where costs went down for the individual, it most likley went up for the employer or something like that. I have spent 12 years watching state programs come along and have rarely seen one that actually lowered cost without just shifting the burden somewhere else.
Do i want better free health care sure, who does'nt but I live in the real world. I will pay into medicare and SS all my life and never collect a dime from it because of all the baby boomers who scream for benifits that I have to pay for and the system will be broke long before I collect any money so Im told to put money in a 401 K save up for my retirement so I dont live broke and just shut up and pay my share in the mean time so Grandma and grandpa can collect thier SS checks. Gen X will take it in the rear for the good of the country and be saddled with the sins of our fathers for our entire lives, hopefully my kids have it better. End of Rant... ------------- Take your work seriously, not yourself. http://s133.photobucket.com/albums/q70/Bigblockbandit/Lake%20and%20boats/ - Boat Pics |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: December-02-2009 at 11:07am
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Eric, tort reform isn't part of it and testing equals early detection which saves lives and money.
I'd feel a whole lot better about it if the members of Congress and the Senate were going to have the same plan, but for some reason they're choosing to be exempt from it. Some people no doubt will benefit from it, but I get the feeling the middle class is going to end up pay more for less coverage. ------------- |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: December-02-2009 at 11:53am
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you cant have the attitude of let it ride and something will eventually happen, its been riding for 20 years and its time to do something about it, it may not be something thats perfect but its a step in the right direction.
a law that would streamline paperwork would save billions of dollars, they just dont do it because they dont have to, cap malpractice suits to 2 million bucks for wrongful deaths things like that, all these little things ad to the bottem line. does someone really deserve 80 million dollars because they got the wrong finger cut off, i dont think so. let it roll, it cant be any worse ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: December-02-2009 at 12:09pm
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Eric, I repeat, tort reform is not part of the deal. And when has government involvement ever streamlined paper work? I've got to wonder why the unions, which generally represent the Dems, are going along with it? One of the big bennies unions offer is health insurance. I don't see this benefitting the unions.
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Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: December-02-2009 at 1:09pm
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i think the unions see the cost savings in the package, its a mfer now my doc, my wifes doc was local, now i have to drive into Cleveland to see the same Doc because of his skyrocketing malpractice insurance, he couldnt afford private practice..he especially new the wifes charts. he was forced to join forces with the Cleveland clinic, 12 minute office visit, doctor charge, 222.00 for the room rental, you cannot diagnose a problem in 12 minutes...these doctors now have a quota ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: 62 wood
Date Posted: December-02-2009 at 1:43pm
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Over 500 buck a month premiums...for CRAP insurance, dont think I've ever had a claim. Haven't been to a doctor in almost 20 years.. at age 55, I really should have a complete physical.. cant really afford it right now.
I asked the insurance company, since I havent had any claims, why dont you pay towards a physical every 5 or 6 years? (probably less than one months premium) I figure it could be good preventative medicine. Their response was I can use the physical's cost, that I pay out of my pocket, towards my deducable for the year... LaDeeeDaaaah... Guess they would rather pay for a given disease after its a bigger problem, than to do preventative? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1117&sort=&pagenum=6" rel="nofollow - 64 American Skier 62 Classic.. 73 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: davidg
Date Posted: December-02-2009 at 7:30pm
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I just heard on Fox News that the Senate STAFFERS will be exempt from having to participate in the Public Option/Govt. Healthcare Plan. What the ^&%$*!!! They force us to take the bitter medicine, and the ones that write the law are exempt from it. I guess this is just like the guys that write the tax laws and enforce the tax laws not having to pay taxes themselves.
Wouldn't it be better to try this great plan on a very small population as a trial run to see how great it is going to work before we flip the switch on the whole country? Maybe we should start with SENATORS, and their STAFFERS?!?! |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: December-02-2009 at 10:07pm
Absolutely not the case, my company has employees in both locations and we pay more than three times the cost for healthcare per employee in the US than we do in Japan and the Japanese employees have far lower deductibles. Health care here simply costs more. Because lawyers support democrats and take money out of the pockets of big businesses like drug companys and insurance companies when they screw you over rich people that make money owning stock in those big businesses support people who like to get on the TV and blame it all on lawsuits. Of course even the most aggressive studys say that lawsuits contribute only 5-9 percent of the cost of health care in the US, (the studys done by economists that examine states with and without caps on lawsuit amounts show no real difference in costs). You want to go back and fix that later be my guest but its not the big problem. So again as we pay almost twice as much as the next most expensive developed country pays per person, closer to three times as much as soe counties like Japan that are healtier than us. For thier money everyone gets insurance and for ours 15% get left out which really drives up the prices for everyone else since they still get treatment and just dont pay so what do we do? One side proposes doing nothing, another ten years of that and health care will double in costs and there won't be any US. Those of you arguing against the government plan taking over the country all at once are talking about something that doesnt exist or is even proposed in either of the houses of congress, somebody spent enough money somewhere to get you fired up though... ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
75 stang wrote:Posted By: lewy2001
Date Posted: December-02-2009 at 10:40pm
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From an outsiders point of view. I could never understand why the most developed country in the world has the least developed health care system.
Our Medicare system in Australia is not perfect but it gives coverage to everyone and you can still have private insurance if you wish. In fact higher income earners have to pay extra tax if they do not take out private insurance. ------------- If you're going through hell, keep going http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2999" rel="nofollow - 89 Ski <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5685" ta |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: December-02-2009 at 10:59pm
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So in Austrailia they spend per capita about half as much as we do (that includes both government spending and spending on private insurance). Mark about how much is it typically for the private insurance? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: December-03-2009 at 12:04am
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Joe I respect your opinions,so please don't take this wrong. I dont care what Japan or Australia does with their health care, last time I looked we are Americans,not subjects.Our countrymen are the only ones who set foot on something other than our own planet.In 7 years it was done,because of leadership. Now where is our leadership? Our leaders are not leading us,they are treating us as subjects, more interested in their own fiefdoms.
And that is why our current president got in,he PROMISED change.One more sad thing Joe, it was us baby boomers who started this sh*t in the 60's and we arn't done yet. Too bad Billy Mays is gone, I coulda made a killing on pitchforks and torches. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: December-03-2009 at 12:31am
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It suRe wasn't the private sector or the free market that took us to the moon or that won ww2. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: 65 'cuda
Date Posted: December-03-2009 at 12:52am
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Some quick research on AUS Medicare indicates it is a bare bones safety net and Nearly half of australians buy their own insurance to avoid it. The population of AUS is 1/15th of ours, Aussies tend to be MUCH more self reliant than Americans, their baby boomers make a smaller bubble in their population, the comparison is a bad one. Likewise the Japanese lead lifestyles that are so much healthier than Americans, (been to a wal mart lately?, WOW) their population demographics are also more favorable (their echo boom is relatively bigger than ours).
Our health care problems are utilization and costs. We are an incredibly unhealthy population that goes to the doctor a lot! Costs , the providers get paid per procedure, per office visit, per test etc... The innovations, management, design, engineering, and just plain will of the US private sector were paramount in the success of both WWII and the Apollo program. ------------- Gary http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=941" rel="nofollow - 1965 Barracuda SS |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: December-03-2009 at 1:36am
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The innovations of the american people have done great things, but we need the whole people not just the ones that have the money to buy influence to protect thier investments.. ..We didnt have halliburton to feed and house the troops back in WWII, the government did it, who did a better job?.
I am not argueing for any plan I am arguing that it is insane to no recognize there is a problem. Dismissal of the rest of the world as being irrelevant is far fetched. Even with the private insurance costs austrailians pay factored in they pay on average less then half of what we do for health care that allows them to live longer and better than we do.. are they healthier in thier lifestyles no doubt, by a factor of two .. no way. The fact of the matter is no country pays close to our costs and we are no where near the top of the quality heap and that can't be waved away by the fact that we are too fat. We have one side here saying that the current private sector does a great job and we shouldnt mess with it.. no arguement cant even talk about it government regulation all bad.. cant possibly be a solution. Yet who in this country likes thier health insurance, no one that pays for it. If your company pays 9000 a year and you pay 1000 maybe you feel like your getting a good deal but really you would be getting paid 4000 a year more if we had costs inline with the rest of the world. This is a problem that will kill manufacturing in this country without a solution.. Let us as a country debate solutions, to say we accept the current system says that america cant do any better than mediocre care at unbelievably extraordinary costs. I believe we can do better and should talk about how. Further I doubt we could do worse.. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: davidg
Date Posted: December-03-2009 at 1:52am
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Absolutely, lets debate ways to improve healthcare, get the costs down, and make it more affordable for all. However, it seems there is no time for debate. Congress is pushing to take it over NOW. No debate there.
Let the private market and REAL competition come in to start bringing innovative ideas and figure out ways to get costs down. Get the lawyers and the insane malpractice insurance rates out. Let insurance be sold across state lines so there is more private competition. The government absolutely has its place....defense, space programs, etc. But, there has to be a limit! |
Posted By: lewy2001
Date Posted: December-03-2009 at 2:03am
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Monthly premiums for Private Hospital Insurance for a family on top cover type scheme is around $60/week $3120/yr.
A GP doctors visit is $52 at my local doctor and medicare refunds around 60% if you are a low income earner or have a Government Health card the doctor has the option to bill the Government direct and the patient pays nothing. I am due for my yearly health check up and I will get a full set of blood tests and the doctors visit for $52 I then claim this bill at a Medicare office and receive about 60% back. Our system is not perfect by any means. The Federal Government funds the health system but the State Governments run the Hospitals. This is the biggest flaw in our system. There has been talk of the Federal Government taking over the running of the Hospitals. This would solve a lot of the problems as one Government always points the finger at the other when things go bad. ------------- If you're going through hell, keep going http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2999" rel="nofollow - 89 Ski <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5685" ta |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: December-03-2009 at 2:03am
I agree with you on that Joe, BUT when the powers that be, the ones that are going to choose what we use are exempt, something is seriously wrong. And check your history,the govt in ww2 contracted out those same services back then. When the Nazis came for the communists, I remained silent; I was not a communist. When they locked up the social democrats, I remained silent; I was not a social democrat. When they came for the trade unionists, I did not speak out; I was not a trade unionist. When they came for the Jews, I did not speak out; I was not a Jew. When they came for me, there was no one left to speak out. Friedrich Gustav Martin NiemĂśller ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: December-03-2009 at 2:04am
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Creating an alternative that you may choose to buy into or not is not talking over healthcare.. It probably won't work unless it has more power than is currently proposed but its the closest thing to a chance at change we have seen since Medicare was created.
My list of places where Government is important and there is not really a free market.. Defense, Education, Infrastructure, Healthcare ... Without any of those areas being competitive with the rest of the world I can't compete with the rest of the world no matter what my business is, how innovative my product is, or how hard I work.. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: December-03-2009 at 2:08am
One out of 4 is not a good track record. Go down to your local VFW and ask the guy's how good those VA hospitals are- ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: critter
Date Posted: December-03-2009 at 2:15am
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I do not think that anyone will say that the current path is acceptable.
In reading many forums, I find that almost all agree that changes have to be made as the current system is unsustainable. The question is what to change and by how much. I myself would like to see that medicare fraud be addressed immediately. It is agreed to be a problem by all parties. Why can we not address this and then fix other known and agreed issues such as tort reform, un-necessary testing, and illegal imigration coverage. All contributing to the higher cost of healthcare. And why not allow across State line coverages for competition ? That is what a Public Option would be for the government. Why wait for 3 years to allow this to occur. And why only allow the government to do it ? I am getting ready to be unemployed, by choice, and will have to purchase my own insurance. So I have some skin in this game. I choose to enroll in the VA system as it appears to be my current best option for cost and services. Does that say that I feel a government takeover of the healthcare system is necessary. It does not. It only says that I shopped around and found what works for me at this stage in my life. Lets fix what is agreed to be broken and monitor the results before making such gross changes. ------------- 1980 Ski Nautique 1966 Barracuda |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: December-03-2009 at 2:18am
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I don't have to go to the local VFW, although I am social member and have been since I could walk in the door, 7 uncles in korea and 5 in vietnam. I also volunteered as a rec therapist in a VA hospital. Some are exceptional, some are not. How does this change the fact that there is no way I could get top notch coverage in this country for 3120 a year? Do I think our current government is doing a great job at running the joint, heck no.. do I think that might be because we keep electing people that believe government can never do anything right to run the government yes I do..
If we never stop argueing over whether government should exist then we will constantly flip between people running the government that are trying to kill it, and people who think government is the solution for everything... ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: December-03-2009 at 2:27am
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My skin in the game is not dissimilar to Rogers at this point except I have no VA option. That is why to me the idea of having an option that frees me from bonds of being related to a large company that can afford my coverage or having to have absolute minimum coverage for 6k a year is a step in the right direction. Having that option means I might take a chance and start a company that could eventually employ a bunch of happy employees and make the world a better place, or I have to work for the man and make rich people richer.. which scenario is really a free market ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: December-03-2009 at 3:12am
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Korea and Vietnam, Joe are not good examples of how good our government does things,correct me if I'm wrong but I think one were still involved with one and still having trouble and one we lost?
Please explain to me how it's good for me to pay so your employees can be happy? Right now if you choose not to to do business with my Large employer your not paying for my health care correct? Why should myself or my kids pay to make your future employees "happy"? It would be your responsibility to make them happy not me,I'd be the customer you'd have to make ME happy. Believe it or not I too was young once, growing up in the 60's. Only time Joe, will change your mind, your living in the idealistic years right now. We need to clean up what we have before we do something that will effect generations forever, our country and way of life are at stake. Ps I am feeling really good today part in thanks to my large employer,but I would be really happy if everyone here could donate a couple of bucks each so I could get a new boat  ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: December-03-2009 at 3:55am
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Gary brother your arguing against the american dream, the essence of what has made america great and in so doing has changed the world. If we have a system where a man cannot rise to the level of his talents unless he is born with money then we will not thrive but wither and die on the vine.
You say I ask you to pay.. I say you already pay more than your fare share because we refuse to recognize the government has necessary role to control the costs. The status quo works for those who already have money and dont need to work or contribute to society. Those who just have thier god given talents and the sweat of thier brow shouldnt fear change. It pains me that I am not the one arguing against the problems with the liberals plans from the middle, but the truth is there is no arguement from the right just a bunch of excuses lies and fabrications that lead us to doing nothing because "government cant do anything right". There have been so many years of that even the liberal plans pay off every single private sector group that have screwed us for decades, but that cannot be an excuse at this point not to change anything for another 16 years. Make the changes, accept that government has a role then hold the government responsible for how well they fulfill it. I will go ahead and leave this thread now for good and go back to talking about boats still not understanding how everyone in this country hates thier insurance, how incompetent it is run, and what it costs but so many cant even begin to accept the fact that the government would interfear in the almighty private sector that brings them that coverage.. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: December-03-2009 at 10:36am
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Joe if it makes you feel beeter, Im right there with you.these guys are driving around a car with square wheels, and they realize there is a problem but after so long they just got use to the bumps. i think the biggest mis conception is they think that to enter a hospital you will have to walk past two Marines at the entrance that guard the place. Healthcare is probably the last thing government wants to get involved in, there is no way they can profit by stepping in. when i mentioned frivolous lawsuits the meaning was this was one of a 1000 problems that easily if a law was passed could bring costs down.. mandating all records to be electronic. re-educate Doctors on practicing and not profits. I could go on and on.....and im willing to listen to what the Government has to say, the private sector is not going to step in to fix these problems, but we are all agreeing there is a problem ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: December-03-2009 at 10:51am
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if you buy an American car 26% of the price of the car is because of Healthcare benefits, now if we can contain these costs the price of everyday items will start to drop and the big machines wheels (US) can start rolling again, this country needs some incentives to start manufacturing again. we have 300 million people in the country, twice the number as it was in 1900. we need to reform so we can compete again. we cant keep heading in the direction we are going, more and more companies are doing business outside of the US because of these costs...not to mention tax incentives, thats another topic ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: December-03-2009 at 11:51am
WOW Mark, For comparison I'm close to your age and due for my annual checkup. I'll have a general physical and blood work check for PSA's. It will cost me over $500. My wife will do the same at similar cost. Right out of pocket because we have a high deductible. I'm self employeed so I pay for 100% of my insurance, I have never hit my $2100/$4200 deductible so I pay for everything. We also pay for all our own eye exams and have no dental coverage at all not even for an annual cleaning/checkup. I've been hobbling around on bad feet for 2 years so I can try to get the treatment slipped into a year when I've covered my deductible, that is pathetic. Only thing my insurance is good for is catastrophic illness so my family doesn't go broke while I die, I hope I don't have to use it soon. ------------- You canât change the wind but you can adjust your sails |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: December-03-2009 at 1:09pm
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funny thing is one industry that you would never think would suffer is the funeral business, well guess what that too is taking a hit, people are bying cheaper coffins and famlies are opting to cremate.
Alan, I have a stack of medical bills at home, its one of my biggest expenses, we just cant afford coverage anymore, the economy dictates this, i pay close to 500.00 a month and they dont cover *************** with deductibles. im better off going down to the county and signing up for medicaid. this way I'll be covered. anyway you look at it we are paying for the unisured, i need a check up but am opting not to because of the cost and this is considered preventive medicine. there is alot of confuse and conquer going on and mis-information. The guys that work for the larger companies really dont see this but i bet as the years go by thier coverage is not getting better but little by little the deductibles are getting higher the coverage is costing more, they eliminate eye care then dental care and so on. it is impossible to keep heading in that direction, it needs a 180 flip ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: 62 wood
Date Posted: December-03-2009 at 2:38pm
Alan and Eric, pretty much what I said earlier. My situation is very similar. Then they are trying to force us as employers to have to supply insurance to workers. Here's what the NFIB is saying........... The House passed H.R. 3962 late Nov. 7 by a margin of 220 â 215 (39 Democrats and 176 Republicans voted ânoâ). NFIB has been a constructive participant in the healthcare debate and has spent more than a decade voicing small business ownersâ number one concern: the cost of health care. H.R. 3962 does nothing to lower the cost of health care for small business owners. Instead, H.R. 3962 will increase costs, raise taxes and saddle employers with new employer mandates and paperwork burdens. NFIB strongly opposed H.R. 3962, the misnamed âAffordable Health Care for America Actâ and key voted against its passage. H.R. 3962 will raise costs for small business owners because it includes: Employer Mandate: requires employers to pay for healthcare for full-time and part-time employees. â˘An employer mandate does not address the No. 1 issue facing small businesses: unsustainable costs. â˘Hurts owners who do not offer coverage today and those who already do provide insurance: â˘Employers will be required to offer a government mandated benefits package. â˘Employers must pay at least 72.5% toward the cost of individual plans and 65% toward the cost of family plans. â˘An employer mandate is a one-two punch. The cost first hits the employer, but the cost of a mandate is ultimately paid by the employee: through job loss and lower wages. ................. What a great deal... ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1117&sort=&pagenum=6" rel="nofollow - 64 American Skier 62 Classic.. 73 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: critter
Date Posted: December-03-2009 at 3:55pm
I see these statements all over the comment sections in FoxNews, CNN, and USAToday and just do not understand it. There are many suggestions that are being made by both sides. But there appears to be an "All or Nothing" mentality. We either pass the current plan or "Nothing". Where does this nothing comment come from. There are plenty of recommendations and agreeded issues to focus on. Can we concentrate on a few and see some results ? We all know that some form of Healthcare will be passed but it will be so watered down that it will benefit no one. It will be modified for the next 2 years to get everything in that they can. Desired by the majority or not. But you hear nothing of tort reform or across state lines competition from the majority. It is like the Tax Reform that the majority of the public has been asking for for years.. We cannot do that because it is just to complicated. This is more complicated than any Fair Tax implemention. ------------- 1980 Ski Nautique 1966 Barracuda |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: December-03-2009 at 6:47pm
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H.R. 3962 will raise costs for small business owners because it includes:
Employer Mandate: requires employers to pay for healthcare for full-time and part-time employees. â˘An employer mandate does not address the No. 1 issue facing small businesses: unsustainable costs. â˘Hurts owners who do not offer coverage today and those who already do provide insurance: â˘Employers will be required to offer a government mandated benefits package. â˘Employers must pay at least 72.5% toward the cost of individual plans and 65% toward the cost of family plans. â˘An employer mandate is a one-two punch. The cost first hits the employer, but the cost of a mandate is ultimately paid by the employee: through job loss and lower wages. So what kind of effect will this have on a small business that has 1-10 employees that doesn't currently have a health plan and is just sqeaking by? ------------- |
Posted By: critter
Date Posted: December-03-2009 at 7:27pm
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And this is on top of the States that took Stimulus money agreeing that businesses will pay unemployment for temp workers as well.
A few States already did this but not many so it will be an added cost to many small businesses. Many have forgotten this little tidbit. ------------- 1980 Ski Nautique 1966 Barracuda |
Posted By: The Lake
Date Posted: December-03-2009 at 10:29pm
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I don't know enough about this to speak with any real confidence, just have some thoughts, and they are really all over the place concerning this.
My GP says we need to do something, too many people with no insurance, and where do they go when they get sick? The ER, the most expensive health care there is. He adds, "We have to figure out a way to get people into health care before the ER room." I'm intrigued by the impact on Small Businesses and agree with 62 Wood and others, the burden should not be placed there in such a way that Small Business is put out of business. I need to speak up against that. We need some form of public insurance, for example: Developmentally delayed individuals who will never make enough to qualify for health care benefits. Surely we want to do our very best for them. I wonder why Farm Subsidies are not challenged more? (not sure what this has to do with anything, but isn't this socialism? We don't allow market forces at work here do we? I'm trying to understand the impact that US farm subsidies have . . . both positive and negative.) It's possible that we spend way too many dollars for people at the end of their life. Americans are paranoid about dying. Many of these end of life dollars are spent out of panic and fear. I think this is a spiritual issue. I do not diminish the pain of physical death, I am around it all the time. Grief is profound and real, and moves me passionately. But we spend as if we can buy our way out of death. Again agreeing with 62 Wood, if we spent more on preventive medicine it would be cheaper in the long run. It's interesting that health care elicits the same kind of emotions as gun control, abortion, taxes, and the Yankees. We tend to take a side and then categorize those who we disagree with as less than. How much of maintaining the status quo is being promoted by current insurance companies? I was really pleasantly surprised that we found a company who will insure my two early 20 children for a very cost effective rate, enabling them to purchase insurance. On the other hand, even though I can run six miles at a time, insurance companies have twice denied me (genetically bad "good" cholesterol). Thank goodness my wife's work has open enrollment. Congress and the Senate are going to (or not) make a decision about health care. We can, over the course of time, change or modify their decision through our active participation in our political participation. This works best if we talk with one another, respect one another, listen to one another, and care for one another. This will take work, or grace! Government, and other powers, may do us harm . . . financially, and even physically. The government of the US will eventually fail, if I remember history well enough, all governments have ended, ours will too. It reminds me that there is something greater to live for. Chuck ------------- Walk on Water www.coldwater.me http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=775&sort=&pagenum=3&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970 - 69 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: Waterdog
Date Posted: December-04-2009 at 11:12am
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"It is the proper place of government to protect the people from each other.
Government oversteps its bounds when it tries to protect the people from themselves." Ronald Reagan ------------- - waterdog - http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=3896&sort=&pagenum=2&yrstart=1978&yrend=1978" rel="nofollow - 78 Ski Tique |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: December-04-2009 at 12:01pm
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and the free market dictates whether the government should step in and break up monopolies if it deems necessary
Eric Lavine Tiger Woods aint getting laid for a while Eric Lavine lol ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: December-04-2009 at 12:04pm
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hey Chuck, insightful and on spot.....and we spend at the church after sinning all of our lives to buy us a spot in heaven. ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: davidg
Date Posted: December-05-2009 at 10:47pm
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Some excerpts from the American Thinker Magazine Dec. 5th issue that are appropriate for this discussion. Let me know if you guys agree with this. I found it to be interesting and stimulating reading.
American Thinker Article Dec. 5th issue..... It should be clear to anyone with a mind and two eyes that this president and this Congress do not have our interests at heart. They are implementing this strategy on an unprecedented scale by flooding America with a tidal wave of poisonous initiatives, orders, regulations, and laws. As Rahm Emmanuel said, "A crisis is a terrible thing to waste." The real goal of "health care" legislation, the real goal of "cap-and-trade," and the real goal of the "stimulus" is to rip the guts out of our private economy and transfer wide swaths of it over to the government to control. Do not be deluded by the propaganda. These initiatives are vehicles for change. They are not goals in and of themselves except in their ability to deliver power. They and will make matters much worse, for that is their design. This time, in addition to overwhelming the government with demands for services, Obama and the Democrats are overwhelming political opposition to their plans with a flood of apocalyptic legislation. Their ultimate goal is to leave us so discouraged, demoralized, and exhausted that we throw our hands up in defeat. As Barney Frank said, "the middle class will be too distracted to fight." Read more here. |