reinforcing floor board (updtated w/ pics)
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Boat Maintenance
Forum Discription: Discuss maintenance of your Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=16862
Printed Date: November-18-2024 at 1:21pm
Topic: reinforcing floor board (updtated w/ pics)
Posted By: jackkloepfer
Subject: reinforcing floor board (updtated w/ pics)
Date Posted: March-20-2010 at 11:55pm
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the floor on my super sport is definitely in need of some tlc. I was hoping for some guidance in repairing/strengthening it. any advice? |
Replies:
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: March-21-2010 at 12:10am
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Jack,
Where is it soft and have you pulled the carpet back like Brian http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=16727&KW=&PID=201222&title=96-super-sport-floor-replace#201222 - suggested in your other thread when you asked? Pictures? Did you find the RWP and get to your impeller? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: jackkloepfer
Date Posted: March-21-2010 at 1:08am
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Honestly, I did a search on these boards and couldn't find that thread...sorry for the double post. Is there a way to just pull up your own threads?
Also, I put her in the water yesterday and everything looked fine. no visible abnormalities in the oil after running it for a good 25 minutes. I even broke out the drysuit and took a set I also put the impeller change on hold for the time being, as the temp is not really rising or anything. I'll probably switch it out sometime in april just to be safe, though. I really want to get this floor in better shape. I also installed perfect pass today! didn't get it on the water yet, but everything is checking out fine. Pretty exciting just seeing it in the dash. I have not gotten the chance to pull the carpet back. I figured I would remove it first, inspect the underside for cracks/damage and then go from there. one more thing while we're on the subject, can you guys recommend something to plug the hole left by the ski pylon? It's removed in my boat. I will post pics when I start working on the floor. until then, I was hoping you guys might be able to suggest a good way to reinforce it without replacing the whole thing. Thanks, all! |
Posted By: bkhallpass
Date Posted: March-21-2010 at 1:12am
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Jack,
What part of the floor feels soft? As I said in the other thread, most of the center section in the arena area is one big pannel. You remove the seats all the way round, and then the panel comes up with removal of about 4 screws. I believe some guys on another forum mentioned using an rv plug to fill the hole. In RVs, sometimes a plug is used to fill the hole for table legs. BKH ------------- Livin' the Dream |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: March-21-2010 at 9:06am
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Jack,
Click on the down arrow next to your name in one of your posts and one of the options will be searching for previous posts. It's the same as doing a "advanced" search but your screen name comes up already typed into the member field. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: jackkloepfer
Date Posted: March-21-2010 at 8:06pm
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I'd say the weakest area is probably just behind dead center. I have removed it before, I just haven't found the time to do it since it has weakened.
I will update this thread when I remove it. I'd imagine the best way to reinforce it would be to lay down fiberglass weave on the underside. thoughts? |
Posted By: bkhallpass
Date Posted: March-21-2010 at 8:12pm
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I would think that some fibeglass reinforcement will probably be the answer. Lots of guys here with more experience than me. I think once you post a photo of the cracking they will have ideas about the best way to go about applying the patch. I'm pretty sure they are going to recommend using epoxy resin on the fibeglass.
BKH ------------- Livin' the Dream |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: March-22-2010 at 11:10am
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if it is the removal panel then isn't it wood and shouldn't a new piece CPES and carpeted take care of the issue. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: bkhallpass
Date Posted: March-22-2010 at 1:21pm
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He has a 96 Chris. No wood. the panel is fiberglass. Some have a composite core, others are just fiberglass. I don't know exact construction on the 96, as I've never seen one of those out of the boat. On my 01, the panel is fiberglass around a core. BKH ------------- Livin' the Dream |
Posted By: jackkloepfer
Date Posted: March-24-2010 at 3:53pm
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This is correct, It is fiberglass. Before I took a closer look, it appeared to be wood, by the looks of the hole left by the removed ski pylon.
Still haven't been able to remove it, but I will update this thread when I do. Any suggestions on a good fiberglass/epoxy combo? Thanks, all! |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: March-24-2010 at 3:59pm
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If it is fiberglas then remove the carpet from it, cut out the delaminated section and reglass with mat and/or cloth untill it's the same thickness, recarpet, reinstall. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: jackkloepfer
Date Posted: March-24-2010 at 4:02pm
I'm not sure what you mean by "the delaminated section". |
79nautique wrote:Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: March-24-2010 at 4:07pm
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the piece is made of layers of fiberglass on top of each other, moister, poor prep during lay-up, but something has caused the layers of glass to seperate from each other, delaminated, think of it like a piece of plywood, where multiple layers of 1/8" thick wood sheets are glued together and now they are coming apart. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: jackkloepfer
Date Posted: March-24-2010 at 4:43pm
| Ok, that makes perfect sense. Thanks. |
Posted By: jackkloepfer
Date Posted: March-27-2010 at 3:33pm
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So I just removed the floor section. Is it possible to reuse the same carpet after stripping it off?? it doesn't appear to be all that tough to peel off.
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Posted By: bkhallpass
Date Posted: March-27-2010 at 3:42pm
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If it comes off without ripping, there should be no reason you can't glue it back on.
BKH ------------- Livin' the Dream |
Posted By: jackkloepfer
Date Posted: March-27-2010 at 3:48pm
| That's what I'm starting to think, BK. Can you recommend any specific brands of material to use for the fiberglass weave, epoxy and glue? |
Posted By: bkhallpass
Date Posted: March-27-2010 at 4:59pm
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Epoxy is stronger than polyester based resin, and also more water proof under saturation. The auto parts stores will probably only sell polyester resin. Also, fiberglass, mat, cloth, roving is different for epoxy resin vs. polyester resin, at least that is what I'm told. You probably won't need much. Perhaps a quart or two. West Marine sells it, but they are pricey. You can probably also get it at Tap plastics. Most guys here doing major repairs/stringer jobs buy their materials from US composites. There is a lot of information about fiberglass repairs/materials in any of the stringer/floor threads.
In terms of glue, I have not seen a recommended brand. I know several have used outdoor carpet glue which they picked up at Lowe's, Depot, or Ace. I'm not the fiberglass expert. I've only done patch work on surfboards, boats, etc. I'm perhaps a third of the way through my first stringer job, and have not yet purchased my resin or glass. BKH ------------- Livin' the Dream |
Posted By: jackkloepfer
Date Posted: March-27-2010 at 5:07pm
| thanks, that helps greatly. pics to come. |
Posted By: jackkloepfer
Date Posted: March-27-2010 at 6:04pm
it looks like there might be some cracking under the 1st or 2nd layer of glass:
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Posted By: jackkloepfer
Date Posted: March-27-2010 at 6:05pm
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Posted By: bkhallpass
Date Posted: March-27-2010 at 6:14pm
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I'm sure some of the guys with more fiberglass experience than I will be along to recommend a fix. Looking at it, I now think you may need a bit more resin, but I don't think any more than a gallon.
You'll have to grind away some glass, to get rid of the glue, and makes sure there is a clean surface for the new glass to bond. I am also guessing they will advise to grind more deeply where the cracks are, lay in some reinforcement in the cracks, and then cover with a larger swath for strength. Again, I'd listen to someone with more expertise than me before I proceeded. That cracking is just par for the course from people hopping in and out of the boat. A 200lb person coming down on the heal of the foot can generate a tremendous amount of force. Add in moisture in a boat which can soften the lamination, and it just happens. BKH ------------- Livin' the Dream |
Posted By: jackkloepfer
Date Posted: March-27-2010 at 8:56pm
so you think the cracked portion can be filled, instead of replaced? |
Posted By: bkhallpass
Date Posted: March-27-2010 at 8:59pm
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I know that section of floor can be repaired, and I would guess it will be much cheaper than trying to replace it. I am not certain what the best method to do the repair is. Guys like pbrainard, morfoot, Dr CC and others, have a lot more experience than I do working with fiberglass.
BKH ------------- Livin' the Dream |
Posted By: jackkloepfer
Date Posted: March-27-2010 at 9:02pm
| thanks, bkh...maybe I'll PM these guys. |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: March-27-2010 at 9:03pm
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Jack - Think of the repair as creating a very wide V groove. The depth should be to the bottom of the crack. The width need to be about 3 inches. You will want to feather the repair out level with the original surface. It will take several layers of glass, each one wider than the last. ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: jackkloepfer
Date Posted: March-27-2010 at 9:37pm
is this how you would cut it? if so, could you not just fill the v with epoxy and glass over the whole thing once, and then sand? |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: March-27-2010 at 10:19pm
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Jack,
Brian's got the repair down pretty good but he also made another good point. That is replacement may be easier! First, it may be a real PITA to get the carpet adhesive off. It's going to take time, solvent, grinding and clogging lots of abrasive disk's. To do the job properly, the crack needs to be filled but just as Brien mentioned, another layer of cloth over the top and I'd recommend the bottom too. See how easy the adhesive comes off. If tough, consider starting over with a piece of exterior ply with CPES, resin and glass on both sides/edges. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: jackkloepfer
Date Posted: March-27-2010 at 10:36pm
So then you guys think I'd be ok if I did the following: 1.) grind through the top layer to expose and slightly widen the cracks 2.) fill w/ epoxy resin, smooth over and allow to dry (which brand/type of resin?) 3.)clean off all residual carpet adhesive (or possibly do this step 1st) 4.)apply a sheet of glass w/ epoxy to level out areas that are indented from the cracking Thank you guys very very much |
Posted By: bkhallpass
Date Posted: March-27-2010 at 10:59pm
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Pete, remember, this boat was a 96. There shouldn't be any wood in that floor panel. I don't think using ply is a good answer.
Jack, you need to grind a v down to the crack from each side. this gives you a clean surface for the repair to bind, and also allows you to build the area back up strongly. Once ground down, you can trickle some epoxy resin in the crack itself. However, as you build up the repair you need fiberglass cloth or mat in the resin. Resin by itself is strong, but brittle. The glass gives it strength. What Chris was saying is you start with a small strip, mayble and inch. Then A wider strip and so on until you have filled up the V and created a repair 3 or 4 inches wide. The wider the repair, the stronger it will be be. If the cracks are small, you can probably just widen them with a dremel and fill with resin, then cover with mat. If the cracks are wide, and the fiberglass has delaminated near the cracks, you need to grind away the loose material. There should be acore of some sort of composite in that panel. Worst case, you grind down to the core, and then build the fiberglas back up to level. I believe what Pete is saying is that once you have fixed all of the cracks, he also recommends a layer of cloth across the whole repair, probably across the entire surface of the panel, for strength. He is recommending a layer of mat or cloth across top and bottom. To do this, you need to be sure all of the adhesive is off. This means either grinding the whole surface, or if you get lucky, getting it off with adhesive remover. Just cutting a sheet of plywood, coating with CPES, and glassing over it would be quicker. But, in my opinion, it's not the right thing to do. One of the selling points of 93 and later boats is that they have no wood in the construction. I don't think it's in your best interest to put wood in there now. I would guess it will take you a couple of hours to grind off the surface both sides, grind out the cracks to a V. Probably two or three layers of glass to fill up the Vs, and a layer of Mat or cloth on both sides. If you did just one layer a day, you'll be done in a week. Free advice, take it for what it's worth. BKH ------------- Livin' the Dream |
Posted By: jackkloepfer
Date Posted: March-27-2010 at 11:17pm
Thanks, very well explained by all you guys. If I'm going to be cutting narrow strips of glass, I would picture the strips fraying pretty easily around the edges. With that in mind, should I look for a more dense weave fiberglass?? can you guys recommend any specific types or brands of fiberglass and epoxy resin?? Thanks again. this is a tremendous resource. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: March-27-2010 at 11:28pm
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Jack,
Do to the size of the repair needed plus the convenience in finding supplies, I'd say go to a marine supply and look for West products. Brian,When did all this "originality" come out of you?  It must be contagious!! Jack, Brian does have a very valid point regarding keeping the wood away from your boat but, if you do find the glue hard to remove, you could get a sheet of one of the composites. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: jackkloepfer
Date Posted: March-27-2010 at 11:41pm
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the adhesive feels like it should come off pretty easily. plus, the board has a domed section for the v drive access, so I'm really leaning toward keeping it.
I'll keep you guys posted. Looking to clean it off and start grooving out the cracks tonight. |
Posted By: jackkloepfer
Date Posted: March-28-2010 at 1:19am
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I'm grooving out the cracks with a dremel right now, going pretty well.
I was able to get pretty much all of the adhesive off of the top sheet. there appears to be tiny traces of it here and there, but it is pretty much clean. |
Posted By: jackkloepfer
Date Posted: March-28-2010 at 1:20am
| also, does anyone know of something that can serve as a plug for the hole left by the ski pylon??? |
Posted By: jackkloepfer
Date Posted: March-28-2010 at 2:12am
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So I'm grooving out the cracks right now, and it appears that the material with the cracks is a foam core.
I'm starting to fear that filling these cracks will not help the structural integrity all that much, as I'm basically just filling the cracks in the foam. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: March-28-2010 at 9:48am
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Jack,
Check some of the online computer or woodworking supplies. They have plugs that are used for desk top wiring hole plugging. This picture is off McMaster's site but you'd end having to buy more than one.  ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: bkhallpass
Date Posted: March-28-2010 at 4:17pm
If it were me, I would drizzle as much epoxy in the crack as I could to fill the gaps. build up a nice strong patch of fiberglass, and put a layer of fiberlass all the way across the panel on each side for strength. I look at it this way. The sides of the hull are fiberglass only - no core. You'd have a very difficult time kicking a hole through the side of the boat. My $.02. BKH ------------- Livin' the Dream |
Posted By: jackkloepfer
Date Posted: March-28-2010 at 7:11pm
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grr!
looks like I got caught sleeping. I picked up some "fiberglass resin" that claimed to be for auto and marine application, and it is indeed polyester. I'm guessing I should track down some epoxy, right? |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: March-28-2010 at 7:39pm
The fiberglass on both sides of the repair is very important. The top is going to be under a compression load and the bottom tension just like a stressed skin panel. The glass is what really gives the composite the strength. The break in the existing has fractured the original glass. Just pouring epoxy into the break will "glue" it back together but it will not have the strength. Yes, I'd take the poly resin back and look for the epoxy. Any marine supplies around like I mentioned? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: March-29-2010 at 11:43am
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is there a section that actually flexes as it is laying on a flat surface? like a big bubble so to say, if so then that whole section needs to come out and if it's down to the foam core. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: jackkloepfer
Date Posted: April-27-2010 at 1:15am
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Ok, Ok. So this is long over due!
I decided to go a slightly different route with this one, and I figured I should share my results with you guys. I know it took me way to long to post this, but I was having some major computer issues. These are the mid way pics. I decided to add inlaid aluminum trusses to add structural rigidity. aside from that, I continued to to bore out the cracks, and I filled them with a low density filler and epoxy. 
I then "iced" over everything with epoxy and high density filler to cover it all up. Finally, I laid about 9 layers of fiberglass weave and epoxy without filler to build my height back up, and add rigidity to work with the aluminum trusses. My thinking was to basically add a skeleton to this thing to prevent the same thing happening again. I kind of went out on a limb, here, but I think it paid off, as it is now rock solid! So much better. Thanks everyone for your help, and I'll post more pics of the glassing soon. |
Posted By: jackkloepfer
Date Posted: February-26-2013 at 1:44pm
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just an update on this one...as this is one of the very rare times that I have actually CONTRIBUTED something to these boards as opposed to my usual siphoning of your guys's superior knowledge: this repair went great. it's been 2 seasons since. it is uber solid, and ended up curing very evenly. I like having the aluminum truss' in there...gives me extra piece of mind. I don't think that I'm going to have any problems with this! |