Fiberglass questions HELP PLEASE
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Boat Maintenance
Forum Discription: Discuss maintenance of your Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=16887
Printed Date: November-18-2024 at 8:47am
Topic: Fiberglass questions HELP PLEASE
Posted By: connorssons
Subject: Fiberglass questions HELP PLEASE
Date Posted: March-24-2010 at 1:13am
| Ready to install new stringers, how thick to make resin to set them, and were do I get CPES to treat them first. Thanks guys! |
Replies:
Posted By: WakeSlayer
Date Posted: March-24-2010 at 1:27am
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Jamestown Distributors has the CPES.
I put down a brush coat of clear epoxy, 1.5" piece of tape, then wetted that. I let that set for almost an hour, then laid a thick run of peanut butter consistency resin and 404 mix. Enough so it pushes it out. Weighted, then took a spoonula and smoothed my fillets. Make sure you get it square, and verify after it is weighted. You aren't making changes after it kicks. ------------- Mike N 1968 Mustang |
Posted By: connorssons
Date Posted: March-24-2010 at 2:13am
Hay Mike! I must be dumb, explain your first sentance please, just trying to make sure I dont F up. is poly resin what your sayin for the 404 mix. BTW figured out the spoonula thing. Thanks jeff 
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Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: March-24-2010 at 9:06am
Jeff, Don't use any polyester resin for this job. Epoxy is the only way to go. You are using epoxy correct? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
connorssons wrote:Posted By: WakeSlayer
Date Posted: March-24-2010 at 11:02am
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I use West Systems 105/205. 404 is the high strength adhesive filler.
Yu mix it in to different consistencies depending upon what your application is. For bedding stringers, peanut butter consistency is what you want. Think Skippy Super Crunch. ------------- Mike N 1968 Mustang |
Posted By: Fl Inboards
Date Posted: March-24-2010 at 11:53am
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If you wnat to spend the money go right ahead and buy the overrated and over priced West system. Keep in mind that this is a re-srtinger job and what rotted before was the stringers not the Polyester resin and Glass. The factory work lasted over 30 years!! Their is nothing wrong with utilizing Polyester resin It will last five times as long as you will own the boat, keep in mind that the next time this boat will need sringers it will more than likely find it's way to the shredder or landfill. I am a beliver in eliminating as much wood sustraight as possable such as plywood floors as that propagates rot.
Do a nice clean job and the work will last your life time!! ------------- Hobby Boats can be expensive when the hobbyist is limited on their own skill and expertise. 1993 Shamrock "fat" 20. 2008 Nautique 196 5.0 |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: March-24-2010 at 12:18pm
Jody, So you're saying that poly having a moisture absorbsion rate 5 times that of epoxy has nothing to do with the wood rotting? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: connorssons
Date Posted: March-24-2010 at 12:21pm
| Hay Pete! so you recomend epoxy to bed them down and glass them over as well? |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: March-24-2010 at 12:48pm
jeff, Yes, I as well as most doing a stringer job feel epoxy is worth the extra money. There are a couple of people like Jody that go with the polyester. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: March-24-2010 at 12:53pm
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Jody, has an interesting way of doing it. If you take the savings from the polyester and put it toward non wood products, you may end up with a better job. There's nothing to rot so it doesn't matter if water can penetrate it. I think over time water finds its way into everything, even epoxy. ------------- |
Posted By: WakeSlayer
Date Posted: March-24-2010 at 1:13pm
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Jody,
I do agree with the expense part, but having never done this before last year, I found West to be extremely easy to work with and mostly fumeless. I am forced to do my work in a 40 x 26 shop in the dead of winter. I cannot just throw open a door and wearing a respirator for several hours a night doesn't excite me much, either. ------------- Mike N 1968 Mustang |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: March-24-2010 at 1:17pm
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Mike, for what its worth, the USComposites stuff is also very easy to work with and essentially odorless as well. We work in a closed garage thats smaller than your shop. Just FYI.
Regarding epoxy vs. polyester, wood vs. composites, I find that the materials cost is relatively minor compared to the amount of work that goes into a stringer job. I dont mind spending 50-100% more on superior products that will (along with superior techniques) ensure that I wont have to do the same job twice on a boat. And hopefully neither will my kids. Or grandkids. Its worth it to me, just for the peace of mind. ------------- |
Posted By: Fl Inboards
Date Posted: March-24-2010 at 1:33pm
Yep agreed their! I just can not justify using epoxy on stringer and large floor or structural repairs. For me it is not cost effeciant. As for Pete's question I do see your point and on full wood boat repair or new wood boat construction epoxy is the only way to go. But keep in mind that on a stringer job the hull is still polyester / fiberglass and as we all know it is porus and will allow for water penatration. ------------- Hobby Boats can be expensive when the hobbyist is limited on their own skill and expertise. 1993 Shamrock "fat" 20. 2008 Nautique 196 5.0 |
Posted By: WakeSlayer
Date Posted: March-24-2010 at 1:45pm
Yup, understood. I just started with West on my first project, liked it, and used it again. Maybe next time I will save the money and use the US stuff. I am perpetually a creature of habit though. However, I am willing to learn and change as needed. ------------- Mike N 1968 Mustang |
Posted By: DrCC
Date Posted: March-24-2010 at 1:52pm
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I am an advocate for polyesther resin. BUT, there is a major difference in adhesion, between mat and cloth.
After years of experience doing someone else's re-work. 50 years of tested and proven instead of maybe 10 or 15 |
Posted By: connorssons
Date Posted: March-24-2010 at 2:27pm
| Is there going to be a bonding issue if i use epoxy on hull with poly already down from the past? |
Posted By: Fl Inboards
Date Posted: March-24-2010 at 2:56pm
Provided it is cured out well No it should not be a problem. You just dont want to go the other way. ------------- Hobby Boats can be expensive when the hobbyist is limited on their own skill and expertise. 1993 Shamrock "fat" 20. 2008 Nautique 196 5.0 |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: March-24-2010 at 3:01pm
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Like Jody said, epoxy will stick to anything, but poly wont stick to epoxy. ------------- |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: March-24-2010 at 3:01pm
Jody, You haven't been following along with the technique!! The stringers are bedded into epoxy against the hull plus the CPES treatment so your statement needs some adjustment. 
I can certainly see if you are doing a job for a customer that you would need to go the economy route unless that customer feels otherwise. I also like Tim's statement regarding passing these boats onto future generations. As time goes on and more of these hulls go to the shreader, the value will go up. There certainly are people out there that do appreciate the old things in life. We wouldn't have the ACBS nor would I be restoring a 1918 launch and a 1927 Universal engine if it wasn't true. I'm planning on passing on my boats, my children know that and appreciate my intentions. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: srbranum
Date Posted: March-24-2010 at 3:12pm
I built a handcrafted hunting boat and put polyester resin from home depot on it. It delaminated after the first year and I did everything perfect and almost ruined the boat. Bought epoxy from www.raka.com, did it over again and it's like a brick s___house. My 2cents worth. scott ------------- I have to keep her running 'cause I can't afford a new one |
Posted By: Okie Boarder
Date Posted: March-24-2010 at 3:36pm
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I also used epoxy resin and got it from US Composites. I thickened epoxy with cabosil to bed the stringers in with. I thickened it to the peanut butter consistency like has been stated. I bought my CPES from Rot-Doctor.
I've been wetting my glass with resin on a table laying flat and letting it soak real good, then putting a light coat on the stringer and installing the glass, wet. It can be a bit like handling a wet noodle, but it isn't too bad. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: March-24-2010 at 3:37pm
Al, Didn't I mention once that I thought you needed a new calculator?
I was curious so I did some checking. The epoxy resin was invented in 1927 and went into full scale production in 1936. When it comes to it's application with boats, the Gougeon boys started in 1958 with wood and in the early 70's the epoxy had become a proven repair resin with polyester/glass boats due to superior adhesion and strength. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: DrCC
Date Posted: March-24-2010 at 4:05pm
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Well I guess then maybe we should be asking the Meloon family why they chose polyesther and not epoxy.
Don't get me wrong, I do think epoxy is wonderful for some things. I also think that fiberglass cloth is totally worthless in either application. One more note about poly: Do not mix it too hot. AT |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: March-24-2010 at 5:46pm
Al, I've got a very good feeling that the poly was used for the same reason everyone was using it. It was cheaper and the problems associated with poly hadn't been realized as yet. When you talk to Ralph, Walt or Ken, ask them why the switch was made to the "AME" resin. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: connorssons
Date Posted: March-25-2010 at 11:57am
| Thanks guys! should I clean glass prior to bedding stringers, and how long to wait after treating wood CPES? Jeff |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: March-25-2010 at 12:13pm
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Jeff,
All you need to do with the CPES is wait for it to get tacky. This means the solvent has flashed off and the epoxy exothermic cure will finish it off. The time will vary depending on heat and humidity. Generally I'd say 4 to 5 hours. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: March-25-2010 at 5:20pm
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On the cost of epoxy I brought my quadraxial from a guy who had just finished building his trimaran and he brought an IBC of epoxy around 1 ton (264 US gallons give or take) which made the cost very good here, around £4L ($6) compared to west at £13L ($19.50) in gallon cans, with the average boat taking 10 gallons, only takes 26 of you to buy into the IBC container to cut the cost, may need to check there is no shelf life on epoxy resin and there may be a charge for the IBC which may be returnable when empty.
So sort out who has a fork lift or pallet truck save some plastic tubs and share it out among you to save $$. IBC container 
I'm sure some would go for more than 10 gallons for future projects if the price is good. ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: March-25-2010 at 10:04pm
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Lets see, put in the drain plug add the hardner and fill up the bottom of the boat ,no stringers needed and all composite. Little on the heavy side,but not any more than soaked foam,but makes for a great wake ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: WakeSlayer
Date Posted: March-25-2010 at 11:22pm
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Structural ballast!! ------------- Mike N 1968 Mustang |