Do I need new exhaust manifolds?
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: General Correct Craft Discussion
Forum Name: Common Questions
Forum Discription: Visit here first for common questions regarding your Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17329
Printed Date: November-21-2024 at 7:34pm
Topic: Do I need new exhaust manifolds?
Posted By: horkn
Subject: Do I need new exhaust manifolds?
Date Posted: April-29-2010 at 6:42am
|
Well, I still have a running issue on my 78 martinique with the 351.
At this point, I am thinking maybe my original exhaust manifolds are shot? It runs great on the trailer with a fake a lake, but when in the water, it won't rev above idle in gear. i have done pretty much everything i can think of to it. Rebuilt gt40p heads, edelbrock performer intake, the carb has been gone through and I am pretty sure that isn't the issue, the fuel pump pumps well, although i have yet to put a psi gauge on it. It does suck up fuel quickly from the feed hose, I have a new points set up on it as I thought my EI conversion was faulty, new PCM cap and rotor, new PCM plug wires and NGK plugs, and all the top end gaskets. Compression is very good as the boat has under 5000 hours total on it. I replaced the fuel water separator on it, and for the life of me I can't figure out anything else. The distributor is stock, but clean and with as few of hours it has on it, I doubt that that could be an issue. I have the timing right, and the firing order is correct. Water seems to come out of both exhausts fine and evenly, for the most part, but I am thinking maybe the manifolds have failed and that is the issue? Is there a way to test them? Can it be done on the motor without removing them? If money were still not an issue, I would simply buy a new set of oscos for 450 for the set with gaskets( or get hiteks) but I would rather see what I can do for as little money as I can go. Thanks, Tom ------------- 78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
Replies:
Posted By: Luchog
Date Posted: April-29-2010 at 7:01am
|
forget about the exhaust manifolds, they have nothing to do with this...
when was the last time you ran the boat fine? what work has been done on it since? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2095" rel="nofollow - 1980 Ski Nautique Commander 351W |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-29-2010 at 8:27am
|
Tom,
I agree it's not the manifolds. You don't get any more RPM's out of it past idle while in gear? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: WakeSlayer
Date Posted: April-29-2010 at 11:09am
|
Tom,
You say it runs good on the trailer, are you able to get it above idle in neutral? Manifolds could not do this. Could your throttle/trans linkage be messed up? ------------- Mike N 1968 Mustang |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: April-29-2010 at 1:19pm
Are you sure? With just 2 wires crossed a motor can still sound ok with no load but put it in gear and it will struggle. ------------- You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails |
horkn wrote:Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: April-29-2010 at 1:44pm
|
have you varified that the throttle cable is actually moving at the carb while your underway? have you changed props?
Seems really wierd it doesn't increase any, ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: C-Bass
Date Posted: April-29-2010 at 1:48pm
I hope you meant 500...cause 5000 is a ton of hours. ------------- Craig 67 SN 73 SN http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6103" rel="nofollow - 99 Sport 85SN |
Posted By: horkn
Date Posted: April-29-2010 at 9:14pm
|
Well, the last time it ran perfectly was right before the RWP impeller went a couple seasons ago. After that,I couldn't get it to run properly. After the impeller was replaced, cleaned chunks of impeller out of my t stat housing, and some came out of the exhaust manifold plugs when I drained them too. I swore it was a carb issue, but after the carb had been checked out by a holley carb guru (not a ski boat carb guru, but he has done a few ski boat carbs with no issues), and I learned a LOT about carbs by trying to see what the issue was if it was carb related. Nothing after looking at the carb many times tells me it is a carb issue, but i could be worng.
It would run, but cut out after it got on plane. Sometimes it would take a while and I could ski behind it, other times it wouldn't let me ski. I did a compression test with the original heads on it, and it looked fine. I thought maybe I had an intake manifold air leak, so while I was at it, i got the edelbrock performer, and while i was at it, got a set of gt40p heads that were fully rebuilt by a trusted machine shop. I figured with the original head gaskets, that might have been the issue. So I put new top end on it, all gaskets, the newly refurbed heads, the perfomer carb, tested the fuel pump and it works and does not let gas past the first membrane so that is fine apparently. While testing and redoing the top end of the motor, I saw the fuel line was original from the tank to the fuel water separator. When i replaced that, i found what i believe to be my issue of the motor cutting out. There was crap in the fitting right off the top of the tank. I wish i would have found that a long time ago. i bet the boat would have been fixed with that alone. who would have known? but I hear I am not the only one to spend a lot of parts only to find it was very cheap fix even with the new gas hose. it runs great out of the water, but bogs and dies in gear on the lake. ------------- 78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
Posted By: horkn
Date Posted: April-29-2010 at 9:15pm
|
Yeah, I get some RPMs past idle in gear, but not enough to get on plane. ------------- 78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
Posted By: horkn
Date Posted: April-29-2010 at 9:18pm
|
Yeah, I looked at it tons of times last year. I am positive the firing order is right. I even tried a couple different alternate firing orders, but none would work well on the trailer besides what it is using now. ------------- 78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
Posted By: horkn
Date Posted: April-29-2010 at 9:23pm
|
Yeah, I am pretty sure it moves like it is supposed to. It runs like a champ on the trailer. You can watch the throttle go up and down with the throttle lever.
the prop on it now is the 4 blade acme, but that has been on it for a long time, pretty much since i owned it and redid the interior. That has never been an issue. I may have a revelation here. I do need a new bushing in the prop shaft strut, and the packing needs to be replaced as well because it leaks a little too much and it's been a few years since the packing has been changed. Could the bog and then engine kill be from extra friction from these 2 things? ------------- 78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
Posted By: horkn
Date Posted: April-29-2010 at 9:26pm
|
oops yes, 500. Even if it had 5000, with the new top end that probably wouldn't be an issue, at least with the good compression I have on it.
My compression did go up with the new heads and gaskets, but not a lot. it was fine before the head swap. I will be bringing the CC down home here from the cottage so i can work on it. if i can't figure it out, I will take it to the mechanic, but I HATE to do that. And I would hate it if it was something stupid that they charged me a lot of $$ for. For em time is still more plentiful than $$$. I'm hoping to have this boat at the green lake reunion for my first time there. if it were distributor related, it wouldn't rev and run like a top on the trailer, right? ------------- 78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
Posted By: hotboat
Date Posted: April-29-2010 at 10:07pm
|
I have seen a distributor with a dirty pickup not let the engine go over 3k rpm but that was with a conversion and you said you went back to points? You have the adapter plate in between the intake and spacer I assume? ------------- Brian |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: April-30-2010 at 1:24am
This is where trouble shooting over the internet gets tricky, you have to give us consistent information. You originally said it won't rev above idle in gear, but now you say it gets you on plane for a little while and then dies. Try a new coil. Is there a balast resistor inline? ------------- You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails |
Posted By: horkn
Date Posted: April-30-2010 at 1:24am
|
Yep, I have a spacer and an adapter plate from spread to square bore. i forgot to mention that, but yeah, it's in place. ------------- 78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: April-30-2010 at 1:32am
This is the plate hotboat is talking about, is this what you have in place
 ------------- You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails |
Posted By: horkn
Date Posted: April-30-2010 at 1:34am
|
I had 2 distinct issues. One was having an obstruction in the fuel line right at the ball valve anti back siphon part, and then I now have a different issue. That's why my description is a bit inconsistent.
Yeah, it does rev above idle in gear, but not well, and usually dies unless I am very lucky and I can catch it so I don't have to re start it. I have a msd blaster coil on it, but I have tried 3 known good coils and I get no difference in the boat's reaction. A ballast resistor is in line. I know, over the internet analysis is a pain. What's your take on the drive shaft bushing thought I had earlier? This thing runs so well on the trailer that it baffles me what it's issue is on the lake. I just want to get the boat running properly. 2 years ago I was so sick with a nasty cough I couldn't even think about waterskiing, and last summer was cold. This summer should be nice as we are ahead of schedule temperature wise with a very abrupt end to winter. ------------- 78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
Posted By: horkn
Date Posted: April-30-2010 at 1:35am
|
That plate is exactly what I have.
Mine is a summit brand. ------------- 78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: April-30-2010 at 1:51am
|
The problem is not in your driveline.
Sounds like fuel to me, either delivery or carb. I know the carbs been rebuilt but I would try to find another one to test with. Have you personally checked the float level on the primary side? Sounds like when you power up it's running out of fuel. Accelerator pump working? ------------- You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails |
Posted By: horkn
Date Posted: April-30-2010 at 2:07am
|
I wish I had someone in the area with a known perfectly set carb to try out.
It sort of does sound like it runs out of gas when powering up out of the hole on acceleration to me, but IIRC,I now have the float set pretty high so I was trying to eliminate that as an issue. I think if I set it any higher, it would spill gas out of the tube. I tried adjusting this in the water too when I had an issue, and I was not able to get the floats set in any position to get it to power out of the hole properly. The accelerator pump does spray gas when activated. I have no clue if the cc of the pump is the right amount, but it ran with this carb before it was checked out. i doubt the accelerator pump was even messed with. If I were to buy a brand new holley 600 cfm marine carb, would it literally be bolt on and not need adjustment? I really don't want to throw a good chunk of money at the boat, but I want to get it running finally. ------------- 78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
Posted By: hotboat
Date Posted: April-30-2010 at 2:53am
|
Make sure where the fuel line goes into the carb is the same as you have if you get a new one,they are not all the same. ------------- Brian |
Posted By: horkn
Date Posted: April-30-2010 at 3:48am
|
I would rather buy a used known nice one due to cost, but even if the fuel line inlet was a tad different, that is not a big deal to me.
Anyone know of someone selling a nice used carb? ------------- 78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
Posted By: horkn
Date Posted: April-30-2010 at 4:21am
|
What height should the primary's float be set at?
I want to try at least 1 more time to fix it myself before I resort to spending hundreds on a new marine carb. Since the carb has been rebuilt, i would think I should be able to simply adjust what I have, right? The best deal I see on a 600cfm holley for marine use (universal marine) has a side single fuel inlet. Is the fuel inlet on this one just needing a fuel line to be bent and flared to make it work? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Holley-0-80551-600-CFM-4160-MARINE-CARBURETOR-ELE-CHOKE-/300408682243?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Boat_Parts_Accessories_Gear&hash=item45f1c0b703 ------------- 78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: April-30-2010 at 10:54am
|
Fuel Pump OK? ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: April-30-2010 at 1:18pm
I was wondering the same as nobody menction that!!! I remember I had similar issues with my boat, say 7 years ago..I was kind of a newbie and didn´t know much about this engines... Boat would run fine and it would stumble eventually under load, sometimes it did fail and others no problem..it was a random problem, When i was with the mechanic on board it run like a champ. Then problem got worst. Ended up being the pump rubber diafragm (hope I speel it right) that was falling appart, and little pieces of rubber were going through the line and clogging the carb on its way..The mechaninc found the pieces of rubber in the screen located in the carb fuel inlet. I changed the pump and problem went away. BEfore you venture in the pump change try to put a gauge and see how much psi its flowing... ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: April-30-2010 at 2:04pm
------------- You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails |
Posted By: kytom2
Date Posted: April-30-2010 at 2:13pm
|
Alan,Think he could have blown the power valve in the carb? ------------- |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: April-30-2010 at 2:19pm
|
OK couple comments. First don't spend any money on a carb, adjust what you have. Secondly just because you checked the fuel pump for a leak past the diaphram only verifies it's not leaking and does not say anything about the amount of fuel pressure it suppliers. So assuming the fuel pump is ok is a bit risky in my book.
So sollutions for the problem, couple of basic checks are require and all can be done in the drive, but first, check the anti-siphon valve at teh fuel tank make sure it's clear, next get a fuel pressure gauge disconnect the fuel line at the carb and crank the engine over a couple times to verify you are getting 5 lbs of pressure. Next you need a timing light and need to verify that the timeing is set between 8-10 BTDC, next you have to verify the mechanical advance is working properly, crank the motor up to 2500-3000k and verify your getting upper 20's to low 30's of total advance. Once all that is verified it leaves the carb. What needs to be check at the carb is the accel pump, disconnect the cable at teh carb slowly move the carb's throttle open watching for a stream of gas to squirt into both primary barrels for the entire range of the throttle's travel. If the stream starts half way throught travel that's not good and it needs adjusted, there is a little screw/nut adjustment by the diaphram the needs adjust until you get a full stream of gas for the entire stroke of the throttle. Now if the float is too low then it's going to lean out the carb and usually backfire through the carb, now if it's too high then it bogs down the motor. Basicly your problem is ignition timing related not enough advance over the rpm range or a fuel delivery problem. So do the easy stuff first, fuel pressure and timing verification, then move forward to teh carb. What type of ignition system to do you have? points. electromic, conversion? engine bogging down under load causes, Flooding Retarded timing lean setting no fuel pressure no fuel volume bad accel pump bad coil bad module ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: horkn
Date Posted: April-30-2010 at 3:54pm
|
Thanks for the detailed post 79.
I was going to install an in line fuel pressure gauge. One of those nice things to have, even after the issue has been fixed. I did check the fuel pump my seeing how quickly it sucks out a plastic cup worth of gas. It would slurp that up very quickly, IIRC, only a couple cranks of the motor when the ignition was off of it to test the fuel pump. I had EI on it, but it now has new PCM points and condenser. I cleaned the anti siphon valve out during the head swap/ fuel line change. That ended up being my original issue of why the boat would run for a while, on plane, then die like it was out of gas. had I looked there before I took the heads off, I would have fixed my boat. Instead I figured I might as well make more hp while I was at it and got gt40p heads and the performer intake. I have used a timing light to check timing. IIRC, it is in the 8-10 BTDC now. To check total timing, simply leave the timing light on as it is revved to 2500-3k and read the light? If it has 20's to low 30's total advance, that would rule out any issue int eh distributor, right? It could be the accelerator pump. I know it squirts, but when it squirts I don't know. I will have to verify. How high is too high on the primary float valve to bog it? Obviously you don't want it to spill gas out the tube, but a boat static on a trailer versus one in the water is a big difference with angle. The bow going up at all would throw any fuel to the back of the front bowl. I doubt it is a bad coil, as I have tried 3 known good ones and that isn't the issue. bad module? you mean the silver box at the back of the motor? ------------- 78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: April-30-2010 at 4:53pm
|
just because it's sucking up gas doesn't mean it has enough pressure to lift the needle off of the seat in the carb so get the gauge and double check.
take a buddy with you to drive or watch the carb, lift the engine cover remove the arrestor but some power to it and look and see if fuel is being sucked from the front of the primary barrels, it should only be coming from anular ports in the center of the barrels. Take some carb cleaner or starting fluid, once you are going and the throttle is opended up and it's bogging down spray some of it accross the top of the carb's primary barrels if it takes off your not getting enough gas if it boggs down more then your flooding it and the float might be too high or your mechanical aadvance isn't working in the distributor. Your correct on how to check for total advance BTW. It's easier if you have an adjustable style timing light to verify it otherwise you have to take a guess as the scale on the block doesn't usually go high enough. You have point in it now the module was removed when you replace the conversion with the points. Now since you have re-installed the points did you set the dwell? you can get close by setting the gap but it can be an art getting it exactly right with that method so a dwell meter is your best friend in this case. You'll want to go back and readjust timing if you have to change the dwell, set the dwell at 28-32 degrees. If it is way off you'll want to readjust everything, timing idle air mixture screw, idle too as these will change with changes to the dwell and timing. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: inglesideshawn
Date Posted: April-30-2010 at 5:05pm
|
sounds like a fue problem..
try the pick up tube in the tank,(broken) siphon valve? or just run it out of a outboard tank and eliminate the fuel system and see if that works.. ------------- 1989 nautique |
Posted By: QUEBEC
Date Posted: May-01-2010 at 11:09am
|
I think you have fuel a delivery problem here. if you can I would instll a guage on the pickup side of the fuel pump. between pump and filter on the tank side that can read a vacuum like on a old oil burner or fuel pump. then take ride around the lake and monitor the reading. there should be no vacuum reading at all if there is you have a restiction. dirt or somthing in the tank/ bad fuel line filter or fittings somthing on the fuel pickup side of the system. ------------- NEVER EVER GIVE UP ON YOUR SELF YOUR FAMILY YOUR FRIENDS AND GOD THERE ALWAYS A NEW DAY |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: May-01-2010 at 4:20pm
|
The gauge is not a bad idea but it's more common to put a pressure gauge between the pump and the carb. You should see around 6 to 7 lbs. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: QUEBEC
Date Posted: May-01-2010 at 9:32pm
|
A guage that reads a vacuum on the pick up side is a quick way to monitor any type of system with fluids that are pulled from a tank for a small or large restriction. once the guage comes of 0 there is a problem starting. A pressure guage will not respond that fast to any problems. ------------- NEVER EVER GIVE UP ON YOUR SELF YOUR FAMILY YOUR FRIENDS AND GOD THERE ALWAYS A NEW DAY |
Posted By: horkn
Date Posted: May-02-2010 at 3:16am
|
So on the stock front fuel bowl, what is the thread for the inlet? it's definitely not 9/16-24 like the side mount one on the carb I linked to.
I am trying to find a new fuel line to bolt to my carb and put that in line fuel pressure gauge(0-15 psi liquid filled). I do need a new choke assembly as well as my electrical prong broke on my old one last summer, so I am getting a parts order from summit to get what I need. Unless someone has a used but good electric choke Assembly for sale.... ------------- 78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: May-02-2010 at 11:08am
this is my Pressure guage installation I did 2 weeks ago...
 ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: May-03-2010 at 2:47pm
so you've been running the boat with full choke and wonder why it's not getting any RPM's  ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: May-03-2010 at 3:52pm
|
It should be a SAE flare. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: May-04-2010 at 3:05am
Sounds like the problem to me.. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: May-04-2010 at 8:51am
I knocked a choke wire off my 81 last fall while winterizing and didn't notice it, within a few minutes it started missing like hell and pouring black smoke out the back. I do run colder plugs in my boat than most do though so it doesn't take much to screw it up. I really hope this isn't the choke or Mr Horkin's gonna have some egg on his face for sure.  ------------- You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: May-04-2010 at 12:26pm
|
all it takes is leaving out one little piece of information to get side tracked and start chasing a tail.
------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: Luchog
Date Posted: May-04-2010 at 2:14pm
|
now are we sure the choke got stuck closed? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2095" rel="nofollow - 1980 Ski Nautique Commander 351W |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: May-04-2010 at 2:30pm
the normal postion is closed and since the terminal is broken there is no reason to feel that the coil inside of it is broken allowing the choke to open. Also if it was stuck open then starting would be a major pain. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: May-04-2010 at 4:06pm
|
Tom,
Do you understand how the electric choke works? We can fill you in if needed!! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Luchog
Date Posted: May-04-2010 at 9:37pm
I have my choke disconnected and the plate's wide open. it just takes a little throttle at cold starts to have her going, no pain involved, and engines rans great once it's warm. Now, if the plate's stuck closed it would start nicely and ran like crap after warm up, wouldnt it? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2095" rel="nofollow - 1980 Ski Nautique Commander 351W |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: May-05-2010 at 2:23pm
|
you can adjust the choke so it is that way if you don't want to use it. but typically when it is installed correctly there is tenson on the top butterfly and has the coil heats up it opens the choke ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: horkn
Date Posted: May-05-2010 at 7:11pm
|
LOL. no this piece got knocked off the choke after futzing with the carb 1000 times. It has no effect on the running of the motor.
The choke stays off in it's normal setting, and needs to be manually adjusted to have the choke on for starting it when it is cold. I think when the piece broke originally, the choke would close off like it was supposed to. I adjusted it so it would not close unless you did it manually. If this were the issue, I would be happy as hell, with no egg on my face at all. I think I will bring the boat down home from up north this next week. then I can really get this thing back on line. ------------- 78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
Posted By: horkn
Date Posted: May-11-2010 at 12:37am
|
I am going up north Tomorrow, so the boat will be here on Wednesday and I can figure this out:)
I have a feeling the fuel pump may be shot. That would explain why it can't take the load of hauling the boat out of the water under load. The accelerator pump may not be set right either, but my bet at this point is on the fuel pump. I mean, it is from 1978. I attempted to use a new automotive holley fuel pump when I had the check valve obstruction, but that didn't fix the issue, because the fuel couldn't get to the pump. I could try that fuel pump out and if that fixes it, then buy anew marine pump. I think my father has a dwell meter as well. ------------- 78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: May-11-2010 at 9:35am
Tom, I sure hope this turns out to be the problem but don't count on it. My 64 has the original pump and I just put a rebuild kit in my 54's pump a year ago. Are you planning on getting a pressure gauge in line as recommended to check it? I still lean towards ignition. Maybe you should go up with a spare conversion modual as well. Per Chris, you should carry a spare on board anyway. I wonder what the next thing Chris will be recommending for spares. Maybe the engine??  ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: May-11-2010 at 2:06pm
|
I kept mine in perfect running order so there was never a need for spare parts on the boat, When you know how to turn wrenchs and tune an engine then there really isn't a need for tools or spare parts on the boat. Only time I had issue that I couldn't fix with out tools was the shaft breaking and a new coil going out within 5 hours of use. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: Luchog
Date Posted: May-11-2010 at 2:17pm
 This must be the best post ever ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2095" rel="nofollow - 1980 Ski Nautique Commander 351W |
Posted By: horkn
Date Posted: May-14-2010 at 1:47am
|
Well, the boat is in my driveway now, so I can get to wrenching.
I will be getting the pressure gauge and also testing the dwell, and once I can locate a nice timing light that I can check total advance with I will do that too. Pete, that's really interesting about the stock fuel pumps lasting as long as they have for you. Maybe the ethanol added to our gas down here might have prematurely worn out the diaphragms in mine? PS, it has autolites in it, has since the gt40p's went on. They were cheaper and easier to find than the ngk's;) ------------- 78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: May-14-2010 at 2:21am
Here's my 40 year old pump that was run for quite some time on ethanol. Had no problems,just decided to rebuild 
here it is finished  ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: horkn
Date Posted: May-14-2010 at 2:27am
|
Wow, that's shiny now:)
So you can simply rebuild these things? Who sells the parts? ------------- 78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: May-14-2010 at 2:40am
|
Check with these http://www.maritimedragracing.com/antique_auto_parts_cellar.htm - these guys. You will need the numbers off of the pump mounting flange. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: jbear
Date Posted: May-14-2010 at 3:06am
Must be a message here...check out the headline on the newspaper. john ------------- "Loud pipes save lives" AdamT sez "I'm Canadian and a beaver lover myself"... |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: May-14-2010 at 9:23am
Chris, I'm confused. Here's what you said May 10th:
------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: May-14-2010 at 1:14pm
|
Pete do you always take stuff out of context?
we where talking about someone else's boat and the need to keep the points and condenser as back up, My comment was it would be easier if you just kept a spare module onboard instead, Didn't say I would, didn't say I was concerned, he was concerned so I suggested a spare module over the points and condensor. Why is keeping a spare module better than keeping points as a back up for an electronic conversion if your the type of person worried it's going to fail and leave you stranded? Becuase it only takes two screw to remove the module and plug in a new one and your on your way. Done in about five minutes maybe less and the engine will run fine. Now if your Electroinc conversion fails and you keep the points as back like YOU seem to suggest quite often. So the steps required for that are removing the conversion kit, mounting the plate for the points to mount to, wiring up the points, replacing the rotor with the old rotor, gapping the points, then jacking with the timing and/or gap untill you can get the engine started and adjust the timing by ear. So after about 1/2 hour if your lucky and are good at adjusting the timing on the fly then your back running. That is provided that you remembered to save the wire for the points to connect them to the coil, doesn't work with out it and you can't use the wires from the conversion unit either you just removed it, but no one ever talks about the wire that is needed to reinstall the points and saving it. Also the rotor is another common part over looked, some conversion kits actually want you to remove the cam lobe for the point's so you need to save that too What seems easier removing two screws in less than 5 minutes or jacking with several other items for a half hour or longer? For the record the only tools I ever carried if any at all, was a screw driver and a small adjustable wrench and a cork screw with a bottle opener on it. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: May-14-2010 at 4:52pm
|
Chris,
I understand your point completely. You took my post out of content. It was meant as a joke and the reason I put the in it!!
Yes, changing out a modual is easy but you know me I'm just not a fan of them. You'll agree that a complete distributor conversion is the way to go. Until the day comes when I do a non original distributor conversion, I'll stick with the points. If I run into a problem all I need is my wifes fingernail file!! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: C-Bass
Date Posted: May-14-2010 at 5:15pm
|
Pete, you're an emotocon machine nowadays. I remember when you didn't believe in them. ------------- Craig 67 SN 73 SN http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6103" rel="nofollow - 99 Sport 85SN |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: May-14-2010 at 8:28pm
Craig, It wasn't really that I didn't believe in them, it was more like teaching this old guy new tricks!! I had never even posted in a forum before I joined here. It didn't really take me too long to figure out that they really are valuable tools. Getting your feelings across in words can be a real issue! Whomever came up with the idea should be praised!! BTW, there still are a couple that I haven't used yet!
Now the big question is: do we really need to get Chris to use them or not?? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: May-15-2010 at 1:39pm
provided that you have any contact material left to file off, stainless isn't very conductive or the condensor doesn't puck on you too and the timing wasn't too far off either before you changed the timing by filing the points. points where replaced for a reason. FYI I knew where you were coming from. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: horkn
Date Posted: May-15-2010 at 3:35pm
|
Having a spare condenser in the boat is a wise idea with points though;)
That is what got me when I used to run points before I converted to EI. Now that my EI failed, I have points again. what comes around goes around I guess. And once I get it running fine for a while, I will probably go back to EI, and carry my points and the wire just in case. ------------- 78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: May-15-2010 at 7:32pm
Chris, Your rationalization never ceases to amaze me. You'll come up with the wildest ideas to make a lame attempt at proving your point and not even think it through throughly! Stainless a bad conductor? Sure better than cast iron - what's the engine block made of and what is the common ground - marine or automotive? I think you had better look up the two materials resistance!! BYW, I had plenty of the contact surface left on my 28 year old point set and the scenario here is to just make it back to the dock! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: May-17-2010 at 1:08pm
|
lets see if I have an electronic unit and it fails I just have to replace the module and enjoy the rest of the day, points fail then I limp back to the dock and buy a new set, reset the dwell , reset the timing, then I can enjoy the boat again.
Hhhhmmmmm couple minutes of hassle and enjoy the rest of the season or several steps to get back to the dock to buy new parts and re-tune the motor. Smarter than harder comes to mind for me. You maybe not enjoy the peace of mind knowing you can limp back to the dock and fix the problem enstead of using that same amount of time with an updated system and the benefitts it brings. I'll stick with updated technology. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: May-17-2010 at 2:16pm
|
Chris,all is well If........
There is a parts store near...... They have the part you need in stock...... You have the tools to R&R bad part..... gotta agree with Pete........ points and condenser only 61 years old, is it time for a EI upgrade ???? ------------- boat dr /diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart /diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: May-17-2010 at 2:32pm
See now this is why I am moving up from keeping a "backup engine" to keeping a "backup boat" with summer in central new york only about two months long you just can't afford to miss a single weekend. Some would say I am taking it a bit far? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: May-17-2010 at 2:44pm
True but some of these lakes are quite remote and some are right in town too...Just seems easier to me to repair an electronic set-up verse the points,.. Both do the same job so it's realy personal preferance, I like the plug and play aspect of an electtonic ignition system, filing points is a limp mode type repair which requires additional steps later...Me I prefer one step to the repair and then enjoying the rest of the day/night/season within a couple minutes of breaking down. But all is good some like orginal some like the look of orginal but with new technology inside, is one better than the other? that's debatable for sure with no real winners. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: May-17-2010 at 3:00pm
|
Joe I thought you where two deep on the back up boat plan? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: May-17-2010 at 3:05pm
|
Chris,
My previous post regarding your rationalization didn't have to do with using a point set or a conversion module. We sure know how each of us stand on that. You may have misread it thinking distributor again. The post was questioning the resistance of stainless VS. cast iron. Have you looked it up yet? But, one last point regarding my use of old fashioned point sets. In the 45 years of my boating, I have never had to limp, be towed, paddled, swum, anchored and walked due to a point problem. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: May-17-2010 at 4:04pm
you don't even catch on when your being set-up, never seen a wire get connected to the contact on a point set and what is the contact attached too anyway? SS arm maybe?  ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: May-17-2010 at 5:34pm
OK Chris, let's go through this one more time for the "not in favor of old point set person" who just maybe needs to read things carefully. I'll try to do this very slow.....ly so you can understand the sequence here. Here's how it started:
I then asked you to rethink your stainless comment because it's totally not rational. That's due to the fact that the grounding side of a point set via the stainless arm now needs to travel through the less conductive cast iron of the engine block. Correct? Got it? Now, I'll ask you one more time what is more conductive, the stainless or the cast iron? Do I need to look up the exact resistance for you to understand? Don't forget to calculate in the distance of travel for the ground current path. A inch for the stainless arm and at least 24" for the cast iron! Did I say wire? NO!!! FYI it's the other side of a point set that gets connected to the negative side of the coil via, yes, a wire!!! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: May-17-2010 at 6:02pm
|
nothing has changed even if the contacts are gone they still go throught the stainless then through the block for the ground Right or did I miss something? aren't both contact pads mounted to SS arms one moves one is sationary right? and the last time I look at a set of points the coil side neg lead is on the arm that moves on the points, and the points are still grounded to the distributor that is still grounded to the block so the ground path and the material composition through the components to the ground remain the same and never change so the comment about the stainless effecting it is meaningless thus completely over your head and missed the point about being set-up. What effects the system if the contacts are gone is the surface area so what effect does that have on the system, won't it react the same as a pitted contact that has less contact area what effect does that have on the coil? in wire larger diameter less resistance, that doesn't hold true for points? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: May-17-2010 at 10:17pm
|
Chris,
I obviously don't understand how I missed the point you were trying to make. You are such a master at the English language and are always so articulate I'm surprised I missed it. One thing that is also obvious is you have been around a lot more point systems than I have. It must be all the boats you've worked on and converted over to EI. Burnt all the way through the contacts and into the arm!! WOW, that's must be really something to see. What do you think, bad condensers? I wonder if I'll ever have the opportunity see a point set with all the contacts burnt off. Next time you come across a really burnt up set, save a example for me to see. BTW, Were these boats still running? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: horkn
Date Posted: May-19-2010 at 9:12pm
|
Ok, well I just re commissioned the boat for summer today, and I got her running.
I have a vacuum gauge on the intake manifold port ( in one of the runners) and at 3000 rpm, it shows a vacuum of 20 psi.I don't know if there is a better place to tap into to test for vacuum, but this was an easy one due to it's location. I have an inline 10-15 psi fuel pressure gauge on the way with fittings to go right into the 3/8" fuel line after the pump. I tested the spray from the accelerator pump and it starts spraying equally to both primary barrels instantly as soon as the throttle is touched. I don't think the accelerator pump is out of whack because of this. The choke is all the way open as I have it adjusted until I get a new electric choke cap. One thing that irks me is that there seems to be a sporadic "miss" and it sounds like it comes from the output of the motor, maybe in the tranny. It does not sound like it comes from the motor it self. I wish my digital camera had sound on the video part. it's one of those water resistant ones that has no sound for it's video. I need to re check base timing, and still check total advance with a better timing gun than I have. ------------- 78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
Posted By: horkn
Date Posted: May-20-2010 at 7:55pm
|
Now that I think of it, the motor smooths out past idle, but at idle it is a little rough, and it does that little sporadic miss. I really doubt it is anything with the tranny, but the noise manifests itself there worst when it happens.
I have to find a funky battery for the dwell meter, a 4.5 volt thing, and the dwell meter measures up to 2500 rpm. I would think all advancement will be done by 2500 rpm, right? I was able to get a stock choke cap from a holley off of a stock 80's 302, but it has 1 wire. I am assuming the 1 wire will be a positive,a and then the body of the carb is grounded. ------------- 78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: May-20-2010 at 8:06pm
|
[QUOTE=horkn] .
I have to find a funky battery for the dwell meter, a 4.5 volt thing, and the dwell meter measures up to 2500 rpm. I would think all advancement will be done by 2500 rpm, right? Dwell is the degrees the points are closed......Dwell Meter Advance has to do with spark timing.......Timing Light ------------- boat dr /diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart /diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier |
Posted By: horkn
Date Posted: May-20-2010 at 8:57pm
|
Yeah, that makes sense.
This dwell meter is an old tool that my dad had from his muscle car days. I don't even know how to use it, but I am sure I will get some help from here with that.. He told me that it has a tach on it, I guess I don't understand why it would have a tach on it outside of having a tach for tuning a car that does not have one in the dash. ------------- 78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: May-21-2010 at 12:40pm
|
you cannot use the choke stat with one terminal it needs two, buy a new one and leave the junk tyard parts in the junk yard. You can get the choke stat at any parts store just ask for a holley choke stat they are all the same. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: horkn
Date Posted: May-21-2010 at 4:34pm
|
fwiw, I had this old carb in a box from years ago, so it didn't cost me anything. Since I have the choke disabled, I can get it running properly without the choke piece, for now.
Now regarding the running of the motor and how it gets smoother as the revs go up, that would tell me it might be retarded, as the engine advances under higher rpm, it smooths out. ------------- 78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: May-21-2010 at 5:21pm
no it sounds like you don't want the carb fixed correctly or want to have the engine tuned properly is what it sounds like. Running smoother at higher RPM's vs lower RPM's can all be in the carb and fuel system and not in the ignition system at all. So spend the damn ten twenty bucks it cost for the choke stat install it correctly and adjust it correctly, hook up the dwell meter set the dwell at 18 degrees set the timing at 8 degrees BTDC, adjust the idle mixture screw after it's warmed up, set the Idle rpm in gear then see how it runs. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: horkn
Date Posted: May-22-2010 at 2:07am
|
Please be aware that while I am trying to be cheap now, I do certainly want the boat to be running how it should.
My fuel pressure gauge comes in tomorrow, and I now have the dwell meter. It's an old Allstate brand dwell/ tachometer. It needs a 4.2 v everready E-133 round battery. An AA does fit, but I have no clue if it will work with that battery. Searching for that battery may be a tough thing. I found these directions on the web for how to use a dwell meter. http://www.ehow.com/how_5488320_use-automotive-dwell-meter.html Does this sound right? I am an EFI and EI guy, so I don't know a lot about points, and the boat has taught me quite a bit about holley carbs on a automotive style engine. Carbs on bikes and sleds are no issue for me. edit.. I found this site on how to set your points with a dwell meter. The mallory single point numbers look right to me. http://www.centuryperformance.com/setting-breaker-points-spg-90.html This guy isn't fond of points, and at some point I will go back to an EI, but probably not until next year. here is my allstate brand dwell meter. 
I still don't understand why it needs a battery in it. Shouldn't it get it's power from the coil leads? ------------- 78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
Posted By: horkn
Date Posted: May-23-2010 at 11:38pm
|
So I got my fuel pressure gauge in. It reads about 4 psi to start out with, then after it has been running a little, it gets up to 4.5 psi, but never any higher.
My guess is the original pump is a little weak, but that should only manifest itself as an issue under higher RPM running, and not the 2200 rpm or so for wakeboarding, nor even 3500 rpm cruising. I have the dwell meter hooked up to the positive and the negative terminals on the coil, and it looks like my 1.5 v AA battery won't give it any power. It calls for that funky 4.2v battery, but an AA does fit in. Also, the motor really smooths out at around 2000 rpm, but under it has a slight rough run to it. I'm thinking if I can get a battery with around the voltage I need, the dwell meter will work and then I can go from there. I am checking to make sure I have .18 gap on the points as is, but I need to wait until tomorrow to go to radio shack for a hopefully a battery that will work. ------------- 78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
Posted By: horkn
Date Posted: May-24-2010 at 1:45am
|
Timing is at 10 degrees, the gap on the point set was and is at .018 as suggested.
Does 4-4.5 psi seem to be the issue? I hopefully will be able to get the dwell meter running right so i can set the dwell where it needs to be. ------------- 78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: May-24-2010 at 2:58pm
|
your timing isn't correct BTW. You have to set the Dwell angle at 18 degrees not a .018" gap. Get the proper battery for th tester waiste of time untill you do.
Fuel pump is junk replace the fuel pump then re-adjust the carb. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: horkn
Date Posted: May-24-2010 at 3:41pm
|
I don't even know if I can get the "proper" battery for the dwell tester anymore. I can hope hat a similar battery with similar voltage will allow it to work properly.
So the fuel pump is weak, I will put the new fuel pump on it and see if that helps raise my psi. What on the carb might need to be adjusted? The float height? Other than the choke being basically disconnected that is all i can think of on the carb. The accel pump looks to be working properly. I will re read the directions to set the dwell. This old tech is slightly confusing to me. What should the gap be for the points before I hook up the dwell meter? ------------- 78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: May-24-2010 at 5:16pm
|
Tom,
You'r not that far off with the gap. They are typically around .020". check the manual for the exact figure and then see what the dwell meter has to say (if you find a battery!). Have you tried Radio Shack? They always have the weird odd ball batteries or can order them for you. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: May-24-2010 at 5:22pm
|
If you have a battery's plus store they'll have them too. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: horkn
Date Posted: May-24-2010 at 5:40pm
|
My PCM manual says .018 gap for the points. So that should be good.
I went to radio shack, and they have no such battery. The E-133 battery listing they show is for a laptop battery and that is definitely not what I need. He suggested that I wire 3 AA batteries that are 1.5 volt each to make 4.5 v. Or I suppose I could use a 9v battery and use a resistor to reduce the voltage? I have no idea what resistor I would need to achieve this. Does my idea of wiring 3 AA's or using a resistor and a 9v battery seem to be sound to you guys? I see some multi meters have dwell as a feature on them, but not mine. I did some more reading about dwell. I now understand that the gap on the points is merely the gap, and the dwell is the number of degrees the points close until they open again (rotation). I can see why you need a dwell meter to really set the points properly. I also see that most places say that you need a dwell meter to set used points accurately. Since these points are new, shouldn't a feeler gauge get close? or is it such a precise thing that even if the points are new, a dwell meter is the only way to get the exact gap on the points? The only batteries plus stores are in milwaukee, and not really on my way anywhere. I have a feeling if I called them up, they would have no more info than I got from the shack. ------------- 78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: May-24-2010 at 6:11pm
|
Tom,
Getting a new dwell meter may be easier! However the 3 batteries in series isn't a bad idea.
Dwell was set by point gap for many years well into the 60's with some mechanics! I still do it that way but that's the old guy in me!! Besides, I'm the guy who gets 28 years out of a point set!! If the gap is too wide, then the point set will open early advancing timing and of couse the opposite is true. To what extent I don't know. I do know that I had to do a "roadside" tuneup years ago and used the old matchbook trick because I didn't have a feeler gauge. When it went to the shop and the dwell meter was hooked up, the mechanic said I did pretty good - only 1 degree off!!! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: horkn
Date Posted: May-24-2010 at 8:38pm
|
LOL
Yeah, you never know when a smoking habit actually helps;) 1 degree is not off by much Pete. Heck, even the instructions I have seen say + or - 2 degrees. I have a feeling buying a new dwell meter would be easier too, but I have to say, if I will spend the 30 dollars on a dwell meter, I will go and spend the extra 40 dollars on a pertronix EI kit, and leave a book of matches , and the wire LOL, in the boat as part of my tool kit for my points back up if the EI ever fails. Heck, Summit even gave me a $10 off code for my next order over 100 dollars. I just put in my new fuel pump. It reads 7 psi pretty much all the time. It goes to 6.5 psi right after I gun the gas, but then climbs back to 7 psi even if the throttle is left at the same higher revs. The motor runs a lot better now. It smoothed out pretty much everywhere. The carb may need a tad bit of tweaking (with the 2 idle screws- Alan, that's what you meant by adjusting the carb:). I don't know if this is normal, maybe the floats are set a tad high (at least the primary), but there is always gas dripping from the "squirter rings" in bigger drops. When I rev it up, it runs fine, even with that, and after I let off the gas and let it go back to idle, it runs perfectly until a few moments. I think that tells me that excess gas is being put in the throat making it stumble a little. I could take a short video of what I am describing if that will help. I think at this point, I could probably drop it in the river by me and give it a test under load. I am crossing my fingers, but I think the fuel pump may be the biggest issue it had. I will be done dinking on the boat for today, as the fiance and I are looking at a litter of yellow lab pups in a little bit. Who knows, we might even bring one back today depending on if they are actually 8 weeks old today. ------------- 78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: May-25-2010 at 1:26pm
|
pertronix isn't what you want to buy, get thE mallory e-spark unit.
also lower the float level on the carb, you might even have to get a pressure regulator since the fuel pressure is now on the high side, to stop the extra fuel flowing through the venturis. This can be due to a high float or it can be because the needle and seat isn't closing due to too much fuel pressure. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: horkn
Date Posted: May-25-2010 at 6:25pm
|
What model number is that mallory e spark kit?
I will re adjust the front float. And I came back with this little guy yesterday. 
8 week old purebred lab pup with english (blocky head) bloodlines. ------------- 78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: May-25-2010 at 7:41pm
------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Luchog
Date Posted: May-25-2010 at 9:03pm
|
http://www.racecitymarine.com/ - Race City Marine
------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2095" rel="nofollow - 1980 Ski Nautique Commander 351W |
Posted By: horkn
Date Posted: May-26-2010 at 3:49pm
|
On CC parts, I see they have a mallory conversion for screw down caps. I assume that is why I would need to call since I have a clip cap.:)
I see this place sells the pertronix as well. What makes the mallory "better" than the pertronix? There are actually 2 pertonix ignitors, the ignitor I and ignitor II. I used an ignitor I until I believe I fried it while trying to chase my tail when had a anti siphon valve clog. It seems to run pretty well now, without taking it on the lake yet. The only thing I can see that is up yet is maybe the float in the primary needs to be lowered a tad now that I have a fuel pump that works how it should. ------------- 78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
Posted By: horkn
Date Posted: May-28-2010 at 1:24pm
|
Well, I let her run on the hose in the driveway for 30 minutes or so yesterday. I need to put in fresh gas, and was kind of double checking the running condition and burning up a little gas in the process so when I put in fresh gas, there is less of the old stuff.
The boat starts pretty much right up, even if I don't manually close the choke plate, and it idles nice, and revs nicely all through the entire rpm range. It sounds better than when I bought it, and it ran well then. The slight burble is still there, but that could be from old gas. I will take it out sometime very soon, and report back. I am cautiously optimistic I have the motor tuned/ adjusted pretty much spot on. ------------- 78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: May-28-2010 at 1:32pm
Spot on i don't think so, After you installed the pump did you go back and adjust the idle mixture screws and base idle? you should have, still holding out on the choke too it sounds like, why can't you just fix it right for a change? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: horkn
Date Posted: May-28-2010 at 1:44pm
|
That's why I said pretty much spot on. ;)
It should be good enough for a test drive. I mean I have driven it when I knew if would only idle around the lake. Yes Alan, I did adjust the base idle and the 2 idle screws. That did smooth it out quite a bit. I am figuring that the slight burble is from the front float being set a tad too high, but it could be from older gas too. I'm guessing that it is not from the gas from last year, but I figured I would give it a try first before I monkeyed with the float. I will get the choke fixed properly in the very near future. ------------- 78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: May-28-2010 at 1:51pm
Remember you need to adjust your air mixture screws with the boat in gear in the water. I do mine with the boat sitting on the trailer in forward just pushing on the bow stop. ------------- You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails |