Tranny Output Flange O.O.T??
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Boat Maintenance
Forum Discription: Discuss maintenance of your Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17443
Printed Date: November-18-2024 at 10:22am
Topic: Tranny Output Flange O.O.T??
Posted By: MikeRa
Subject: Tranny Output Flange O.O.T??
Date Posted: May-08-2010 at 2:49pm
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I'm hoping someone can give me some guidance ASAP.
Doing alignment on a rebuilt 302 Ford Commander. Engine is primo. Thought I had everything in alignment until I checked again after rotating velve drive output flange. Whoa!!!! Back out. Gap moves with tranny output flange location. Drive shaft is new Elbert's with tapered coupling. Best I can tell it's true because with alignment "in", good through full rotation of shaft. Also, when out (after moving output flange), location of gap doesn't change with prop shaft rotation. History: This Tique had trashed stringers (virtually no wood). I got scammed by seller and dealer who "inspected" for me. As part of settlement, dealer "rebuilt" tranny (clutch plates and normal wear parts, seals etc.) and they were shot. I know they did nothing with main bearing as mechanic stated: "never saw problems with these". This boat was rode hard with bad stringers. Anyone heard of the tranny output flange being OOT?? Any/all help greatly appreciated. I'm winding this project up and have a lake place rented in late June. |
Replies:
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: May-08-2010 at 3:05pm
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you need to do runouts on the flange, it sounds to me like the rotted stringers caused the engine to sag and load the ass of the trans, causing a bushing to spin, thus transmission failure...probably locked in forward? probably overlooked the bushings and another rebuild is in your future. the plates were burnt for a reason ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: MikeRa
Date Posted: May-08-2010 at 3:47pm
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Actually, the tranny worked fully when water tested at purchase. No slipping or lack of neutral, etc. After that water test last summer, has not been run but rebuilt as indicated in first post.
It's almost as if flange face has been bent by tranny being dropped. There is no detectable slop in shaft; although I have not done runout as do not have dial indicator/base, etc. Eric, I know you have tons of experience on these tranny's. Have you ever seen the output flange be OOT? I see where replacements do exist but wouldn't want to go that route if suspect further damage inside such as main bearing, etc. I'm leaning towards just yanking the whole dam thing and buying a new tranny and be done with it. My engine was rebuilt by some primo mechanics as the original had some rust/ring damage in 2 cylinders. Does my diagnosis sound correct about the output flange. Like I said, I got the engine in alignment (tight all round the flanges) and was wrapping up when I decided to check with tranny flange rotated some. That's when I discovered this. Doing careful checks and rotating the tranny flange 90 degrees each time, the gap moved around with each move of the tranny flange. For each tranny flange position, the shaft flange was rotated/checked through 360 degrees and the location of the gap didn't change. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: May-08-2010 at 5:54pm
Hmmm!! I wonder how that mechanic removed the trans output coupling/flange???? 
Get it off, chuck it up in the lathe, dial it in to the bore and take a cut on the face. While you've got it off the trans, you'd better take the dial indicator to the output shaft too. You want to be sure that the half ass, shade tree "mechanic" who did the trans didn't f*** it up too. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: May-08-2010 at 11:16pm
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its quite a chore to dial them in once they are bent, i could easily come up with flange for you and i will face it also, ive recieved a ton of them with bent flanges from shipping and on dis-assembly the damage stayed isolated to the coupling but i still replace the back bearing. the output shaft is around 55 rockwell and would be hard pressed to bend, i believe it would snap instead...but indicating it would ease your mind. At times though when you spin these output flanges the illusion of a bend will exist because the backside is uneven and not machined and it will appear as the flange is bent, thats why its important to do a runout on the face, and shaft. really though, if the shaft is straight i dont think there will be much more damage than the coupling, these tranny's are durable and remember the bearing pushes a 2500 lb boat so it takes alot to fail that bearing but not alot to bend the "soft" coupling ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: MikeRa
Date Posted: May-09-2010 at 12:43am
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Eric,
Thanks for the followup info. I'm pretty convinced the flange took an impact (floor, work bench, hammer, etc.). Even though the boat was operated with poor alignment, I can't envision how those loads would bend the flange in one spot. If I loosen the retaining nut on the output shaft, do I need a puller to remove flange from splined shaft? Nut calls for 100-200 ft-lbs torque; can I get this off with a 1/2" socket or do I need something beefier. Trying to keep it on the engine and in the boat. If I get the flange off and confident of shaft runout, how hard is it to get a new flange on? I think the manual talks about gently pressing on with an arbor, but that's with the luxury of working on a bench. Could it be done properly in the boat? Any input you can give me would help. |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: May-09-2010 at 11:48am
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you'll need an half inch impact on the boat, its a slide fit, and dont forget and it is one of only a few spots i will use silicone, under the nut....no press on the coupling ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: MikeRa
Date Posted: May-09-2010 at 3:28pm
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Thanks again Eric for your expertise. I got the flange off without much trouble. Laying on our granite countertop (didn't tell my wife!) in one spot and rotating with feeler/flashlight, was able to confirm face is not flat. For the life of me, can't understand how this could have occurred as don't see any obvious damage to face or edge of flange.
Also, rechecked my measurements and the gap moves with the rotation of the tranny flange but it does vary from: no gap to 4 mils, to 7 mils to 4+ mils. Perhaps this means the output shaft has some runout. I think the best thing is for me to put a new flange on and see what happens. Looks like I can get one for around $90 new unless someone knows of something cheaper. Will need to overnight as I want to know quickly if this is going to work. Thanks again for your input and if you have any other ideas/thoughts, please let me know. |
Posted By: MikeRa
Date Posted: May-11-2010 at 5:41pm
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Eric,
Replaced output flange with new.......same problem. Ever heard of the main case bushings wearing into the casing and causing misaligment of drive end? Everyone I've spoken with has rarely seen main rear bearing problems and no-one has ever seen a bent output shaft. One has seen the main case bushing wear from gross and long term misalignment; someething my boat probably had. Any comments/thoughts appreciated. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: May-11-2010 at 6:17pm
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Mike,
With the gap following the shaft rotation, the shaft has got to be bent!! If you have a bad tail end, then you'd see run out/slop on the shaft. Is there any? Get the dial indicator on the shaft like I mentioned earlier. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |