a little hard to start after sitting for 30 mins.
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Boat Maintenance
Forum Discription: Discuss maintenance of your Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=18136
Printed Date: November-19-2024 at 3:57pm
Topic: a little hard to start after sitting for 30 mins.
Posted By: Swatkinz
Subject: a little hard to start after sitting for 30 mins.
Date Posted: June-22-2010 at 12:42am
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My 88 is a little slow to start after it sits for 30 mins or so. requires the neutral knob to be pulled out and throttle pumped a few times before it fires up. Is there any way that a carb boat can be tuned to start more consistently/easily after it sits for a little bit or is this just a function of the gas running draining back out of the ports etc? ------------- Steve 2011 Sport/Air 200 Excalibur 343 2017 Boatmate Tandem Axle Trailer Former CC owner (77, 80, 95, 88, all SNs) Former Malibu owner (07, 09) |
Replies:
Posted By: Morfoot
Date Posted: June-23-2010 at 3:49pm
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Steve I'm surprised that this one has sat here unanswered as I know there are guys more qualified to answer more than I but I'll give it a shot. Mine used to do the same as yours to the point that I never shut off the engine while changing skiers. I finally took the initiative and rebuilt the carb in 2009 before the River Run. I set the timing before we left but the Boat Dr. fine tuned her when I was there. She's been running great ever since. I did however give the idle a half turn last week as it was idling rough to the point where she just quit.
No problems starting her now and shut it off all the time now. Has the carb ever been rebuilt? If it hasn't; it may be time. ------------- "Morfoot; He can ski. He can wakeboard.He can cook chicken.He can create his own self-named beverage, & can also apparently fly. A man of many talents."72 Mustang "Kermit",88 SN Miss Scarlett, 99 SN "Sherman" |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: June-23-2010 at 4:47pm
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When your out nixt time pull the arrestor off look down the carb and see if you see any gas dripping. If you do lower your float slightly. Basicly the engine is flooding somewhat so either a good tune up is in order or the carb needs tweeked a little. Since it runs pretty good at all other times, I feel it's just the float being a little too high and draining through the primary's when at rest. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: June-23-2010 at 5:55pm
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Chris, I think the half hour here is key. If it were leaking a bit (after shut down) due to a high float, it should only leak for a few minutes, right? It would be flooded for a few minutes right after shut down, but a half hour later would allow the gas to evaporate, I would think. To start a flooded engine you need to open the butterflies- not pump the throttle and dump more gas down the throat like he describes.
I would certainly check to make sure fuel isnt dripping after shut down, but I suspect his idle simply needs to be dialed in. Restarting after a half hour should be easy. ------------- |
Posted By: Swatkinz
Date Posted: June-23-2010 at 8:24pm
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Tim, Chris, Tim,
Thanks, I'll check it out this weekend. Steve Chris, Can you give a detailed explanation of how to make that float adjustment should that be the issue? ------------- Steve 2011 Sport/Air 200 Excalibur 343 2017 Boatmate Tandem Axle Trailer Former CC owner (77, 80, 95, 88, all SNs) Former Malibu owner (07, 09) |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: June-24-2010 at 12:22pm
It will still act like it is flooded, you open up the trottle all the way right, to start a flooded engine? correct? yes? isn't that adding more fuel?, just as pumping the trottle and the accel pump does too? I doubt the trottle is going back to neutral and staying in neutral after it's pumped and the engine actually fires. Now if it is going back to neutral and no additional throttle movement is required then the timing is too advanced or the choke stat needs tweeked or possible loose bolts on the intake or carb. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
TRBenj wrote:Posted By: Swatkinz
Date Posted: June-24-2010 at 1:35pm
Tim, Are you a mechanic? How challenging was the carb rebuild for you? I've cleaned and replaced gaskets, floats and needle valves in small engines (lawnmowers and such) with success, but am very intimated by the Holley. Is this something that an ambitious novice can do or is this best left to a carb guru or real mechanic? Steve ------------- Steve 2011 Sport/Air 200 Excalibur 343 2017 Boatmate Tandem Axle Trailer Former CC owner (77, 80, 95, 88, all SNs) Former Malibu owner (07, 09) |
Posted By: Morfoot
Date Posted: June-24-2010 at 7:38pm
Steve, yes I am, but Delta got rid of recip engines long before I hired on. I only studied carburated fuel controls for about 4 weeks in A&P school and that was 20 yrs ago. It was an easy rebuild and if you have handled small carbs this one isn't much different. I did leave the power valve alone and didn't swap it out. Just take your time when you do it and make sure any small springs don't get sprung. 
------------- "Morfoot; He can ski. He can wakeboard.He can cook chicken.He can create his own self-named beverage, & can also apparently fly. A man of many talents."72 Mustang "Kermit",88 SN Miss Scarlett, 99 SN "Sherman" |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: June-25-2010 at 12:35pm
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and buy the gallon bucket of carb cleaner to soak it in, Spray cans are not going to get the job done, You'll need an air compressor to blow it dry after it's rinsed off in water after you oull it out of the cleaner. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: Swatkinz
Date Posted: August-21-2011 at 7:14pm
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I've been slow to run down this problem fellas. The boat runs so good in every other respect, I've just dealt with the hard hot start.
my carb is definitely NOT leaking after shut down as some suspected. TRBENJ you said something of an idle adjustment that could be tried. Can you tell me more about that? What RPM should the idle be set at? It should be set with the motor idling in gear under load, correct? If the idle is set properly and it still is difficult to start after a 20 minute rest then what? I read in another thread the heat soak theory and possible gas vaporization/vapor lock idea which seemed pretty controversial. I can tell you this, my boat typically runs at 155 degrees while idling and while cruising around. However, when I come off of plane, especially after running hard, the temp will climb to 180 sometimes even 200 and stay there for a few seconds. If I idle for a minute or so (maybe less), the temp cools back down to 155. While I've consistently had the hot start issue since I've owned the boat, this heat soak issue has been on my mind more lately as I've kept a closer eye on the temp. (Been footing alot lately and runnin it hard) Do you guys think my hard hot start has to do with the temp climbing after coming off of plane? ------------- Steve 2011 Sport/Air 200 Excalibur 343 2017 Boatmate Tandem Axle Trailer Former CC owner (77, 80, 95, 88, all SNs) Former Malibu owner (07, 09) |
Posted By: NAUTIQUEjunky
Date Posted: August-21-2011 at 10:16pm
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Set the idle to 600-650 idleing in gear. I set mine with the tach feature on my Multimeter if you dont have one then you can ballpark it will watching the tach. The boat should not be pushing alot of water if it is set right and not bang/jerk when you put it in gear..
When you get the long crank symptom do you have to throttle it? It could be your coil is getting too hot do you have points or EI.. Basiclly all of my carbed boats would fire on restart with one small pump on throttle lever before turning the engine over..It could be numerous things that could be hard to pinpoint over the internet.. ------------- 1977 MasterCraft Stars&Stripes 1994 Ski Nautique 2000 Super Air Nautique 1986 Ski Nautique 2001 1999 Sport Nautique gt40 current |
Posted By: Swatkinz
Date Posted: August-21-2011 at 11:49pm
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thank you....
yes, the throttle needs to be pumped 3-4 times if it sits 15 minutes or more or it won't start. yes, the PO changed to EI can the coil be checked? how do you do that? does it get checked when it's cool, hot, both? ------------- Steve 2011 Sport/Air 200 Excalibur 343 2017 Boatmate Tandem Axle Trailer Former CC owner (77, 80, 95, 88, all SNs) Former Malibu owner (07, 09) |
Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: August-22-2011 at 1:05pm
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You could use a tool like this, to see if you're getting a strong spark when it's hot. Or, you could use a timing light and also check your timing.
You realize they were talking about the carb leaking into the barrels (IE Internally) that they were talking about, right? 
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Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: August-22-2011 at 1:07pm
| http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item_Lg.asp?picFile=/41400/41341.JPG - Spark Tester Tool |
Posted By: Swatkinz
Date Posted: August-22-2011 at 1:25pm
Removed spark arrestor and looked down the primary barrels immediately after shut off.....no drips ------------- Steve 2011 Sport/Air 200 Excalibur 343 2017 Boatmate Tandem Axle Trailer Former CC owner (77, 80, 95, 88, all SNs) Former Malibu owner (07, 09) |
Posted By: Luchog
Date Posted: August-22-2011 at 2:20pm
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you could try closing the air mixture screws 1/4 - 1/2 turn each and see if it improves. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2095" rel="nofollow - 1980 Ski Nautique Commander 351W |
Posted By: JasonR
Date Posted: September-17-2011 at 5:01pm
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Run a jumper from the small empty stud on the starter relay to the hot side of the coil. This will bypass the ballistic resistor on cranking and give your ignition 12 volts. See if this solves your problem. If it does then you know you have increased resistance in your harness and the starter cranking is putting it over the edge. Heat increases resistance between contacts and in conductors. ------------- '86 2001 800hrs |
Posted By: NAUTIQUEjunky
Date Posted: September-18-2011 at 1:14am
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I was wondering is anyone running a jumper wire for permanent use to get the 12v at the coil for faster starts ??? ------------- 1977 MasterCraft Stars&Stripes 1994 Ski Nautique 2000 Super Air Nautique 1986 Ski Nautique 2001 1999 Sport Nautique gt40 current |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: September-18-2011 at 11:59am
I would'nt recommend this, it would overheat the coil. The resister is there for a reason. ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: September-18-2011 at 2:01pm
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Its not an ignition problem it's a carburetor problem, don't start chasing your tail!
If you run 12v direct to the coil you will have ignition problems!!! Chris glad to see you back. |
Posted By: JasonR
Date Posted: September-18-2011 at 3:01pm
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It's only at 12 volts while cranking. This is a old Mercruiser trick. It takes two minutes to give it a try compared to tearing into a carb. I would call that chasing your tail. ------------- '86 2001 800hrs |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: September-18-2011 at 5:03pm
It's not an "old Mercruiser trick". It goes way back before they even went beyond outboards. How many boats do you think are out there starting fine without the resistor bypass during cranking? I go with a carb issue as well. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: NAUTIQUEjunky
Date Posted: September-18-2011 at 5:42pm
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[QUOTE=79nautique] and buy the gallon bucket of carb cleaner to soak it in, Spray cans are not going to get the job done.
This is true i finally rebuilt mine this week (2hr job) after wanting to do it since purchase of the 86 end of last summer..It appeared to be stock form never rebuilt still had the old phillips head float bowl spring screws which are replaced with bolts whenever rebuilt. The inside was suprisingly clean for a 25yr old carb. The cans of carb cleaner are not what the used to be. If the inside is nasty only the gallon of the good cleaner will do. I too had hard starts after sitting for awhile and they are no longer present. It cost $103 shipped from SKIDIM with a New ballast resistor too=it ohmed too high for my liking) Thats 2 base gaskets one for carb other for intake spacer, Holley Renew Kit, 4 of the updated Float Bowl bolts.Its a easy task if you have some mechanical knowledge and a good memory to remember where parts go. ------------- 1977 MasterCraft Stars&Stripes 1994 Ski Nautique 2000 Super Air Nautique 1986 Ski Nautique 2001 1999 Sport Nautique gt40 current |
Posted By: Jason
Date Posted: September-19-2011 at 12:46am
| Well thanks for correcting me and nice tact. I believe all of the posts on these threads are a attempt to help. Why don't we all just stop and you can answer all of then correctly. Jeez... |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: September-19-2011 at 9:10am
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Jason,
This is an open forum and input is always welcome but the 3 of us seem to disagree with your suggestion. Sorry but unless you do other ignition mods, I suggest keeping the wiring the way the factory set it up. The jumper helped in your case because I have a feeling you didn't go after the real problem. You even mentioned it, The extra resistance in old corroded wires/cables and their connections. The problem comes up here I'd say at least once a week. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: September-19-2011 at 10:38am
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I think I mis-understod the question above. I thought he wanted to bypass the resistor for full time running.
Yes, bypassing the resistor for start-mode only is a great idea. ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: NAUTIQUEjunky
Date Posted: September-19-2011 at 12:39pm
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That's what i thought too thats why i asked how many points users on here had done it. If the start/12v wire from the selonoid to coil is only energized during cranking then what would it hurt. If you would benefit much faster firing of the engine then great,But i have in mind just barely having to bump the starter and it fires. This is ultimately a perfect starting carbed nonEI motor in my opinion. ------------- 1977 MasterCraft Stars&Stripes 1994 Ski Nautique 2000 Super Air Nautique 1986 Ski Nautique 2001 1999 Sport Nautique gt40 current |
Posted By: JasonR
Date Posted: September-19-2011 at 3:04pm
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I used it as a diagnostic tool to rule out a carb problem then switched to electronic ignition, removing the ballist resistor. I understand its a open forum and (and) tact should be used. The resistance, I believe, was from the chasis wiring harness itself and although I didn't replace the whole harness the problem was fixed. I think I'm done with this. ------------- '86 2001 800hrs |
Posted By: skicat2001
Date Posted: September-19-2011 at 3:13pm
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[QUOTE=gun-driver]
Chris glad to see you back.[/QUOTE) Are you referring too 79 nautique?? ------------- 1985 CC 2001-SOLD Lee Michael Johnson |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: September-20-2011 at 11:32am
Thank you Chris, I just saw this and I am amazed at the other replies. There are a few "professionals" on this site that preach this as a standard retrofit on these boats but when someone they don't know suggests it they remain quiet. Guess I'm just confused as to when one should speak up, might not be the issue with the boat in question but it is an accepted practice. ------------- You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: September-20-2011 at 4:01pm
I think so..but If you look closely this thread was started on 2010, before he was banned, so no he is not back,... yet!!! 
------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |