need opinions
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Category: General Correct Craft Discussion
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Forum Discription: Anything non-Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=18586
Printed Date: January-10-2025 at 6:42pm
Topic: need opinions
Posted By: eric lavine
Subject: need opinions
Date Posted: July-15-2010 at 2:26pm
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I need some unbiased opinions that i may print out and use further down the road, we all know i rebuild transmissions for a living, upwards of 100 or more per year,
Well, a local guy, towboat Captain, had his wife pick-up the tranmission and he had his mechanic install the transmission, long and behold it locked up on the first tow and what they found was no oil in the unit. our policy is we dont ship transmissions with oil and he is looking to me because the unit did not have oil in it, But it has a clearly marked dipstick on the case. now this is a mechanical transmission which does not operate on hydraulic pressure and will operate without oil until something locks. Any comments? ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Replies:
Posted By: behindpropeller
Date Posted: July-15-2010 at 2:46pm
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I picked mine up and you told me to put oil in it.
I would make sure the receipt says "OIL NOT INSTALLED!" You might consider shipping them with the dipstcik zip tied to the mount or flange. Tim ------------- |
Posted By: anthonylizardi
Date Posted: July-15-2010 at 2:55pm
| His mechanic is an idiot. The only thing you can do, if you want to, is attached a big warning label in red that says "NO OIL". That's what my lawn power equipment comes with. Use one of those labels that have a a metal wire and attach it where is obvious. Maybe you may want to include a quart of your "Recommended Oil" in your shipment, just kidding. Honestly, they should know better. Maybe you might give this guy a little break but I would definetly do the label so next time you tell them "ARE YOU BLIND? NO OIL!" |
Posted By: MI-nick
Date Posted: July-15-2010 at 3:04pm
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his mechanic is dumb. why the f would you not check the oil level?!?!? ------------- As far as I can tell, I'm not quite sure... |
Posted By: Keuka
Date Posted: July-15-2010 at 3:07pm
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Was it made clear to the customer the trans would be shipped with no oil? I would put some kind of bright colored tag on the unit somewhere and also have it printed on the invoice. Have you done work for this captain before without any issues? History with the customer may justify getting more involved with fixing this repair.
David ------------- 86 Martinique |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: July-15-2010 at 4:18pm
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I even talked to the captain before hand and advised him that i did not know which oil Volvo recommends for that unit.
Well Kueka, i do alot of work for the towboat Captains and they have one concern, towing boats, they are the last guys to maintain anything and are always on a tight budget...I heard his mechanic mfin me and i hung up on the captain. I let him buy the parts because of the expense and no extra cost to him...charged him labor out the door ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: C-Bass
Date Posted: July-15-2010 at 4:41pm
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Seems like his mechanic knows he screwed up and isn't man enough to own the mistake, and instead is cowardly passing blame off to someone else.
Only you know if you did wrong in this case. If you did do something wrong, make it right. If you didn't....hold your ground. ------------- Craig 67 SN 73 SN http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6103" rel="nofollow - 99 Sport 85SN |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: July-15-2010 at 4:52pm
Same reason one should never go flying in a farmer's plane. ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
eric lavine wrote:Posted By: Waterdog
Date Posted: July-15-2010 at 5:04pm
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Eric
If you let the trans go with oil and it leaked all over her car, it WOULD be her falt but you would get the blame! The trans failed due to lack of lubracation because of the INSTALLER. ------------- - waterdog - http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=3896&sort=&pagenum=2&yrstart=1978&yrend=1978" rel="nofollow - 78 Ski Tique |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: July-15-2010 at 5:08pm
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What kind of mechanic would install a transmission and then not check the oil before he fired it up? ------------- |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: July-15-2010 at 5:49pm
Maybe JoeNY can fill us inn with some opinions on running w/o oil  ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: July-16-2010 at 12:21am
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ever buy a crate engine? touche to his mechanic.
I went round and round with another captain on his engine rebuild, someone before me left the restricter plates out between the risers and the manifolds...its uphill so water fails to get to the front...3 manifolds later... this is daily sht i deal with, things work pretty well until these guys get they're hands in them ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: 05 210
Date Posted: July-16-2010 at 12:49am
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We put "No oil" tags on everything we drain at the shop.The tags stay on until after the oil is refilled. If you can't read, you don't need to work for me. Draining something without tagging(if not immediately refilling) is a cardinal sin at my place. You never know who may end up finishing the job.
I coud tell you the stories that prompted this policy, but you already know how they ended. Unfortunately Eric, you have to treat your customers like they are idiots because most of them are. Believe me, it's no different in the bike biz. Not everyone is as mechanically inclined or has as much attention to detail as the people who frequent this site. CYA, it always ends up being cheaper in the end. I'd put 2 stickers on it, one on the shipping container and one on the trans. I had my boat serviced once and the tech taped the hull plug to the steering wheel. I thought that was dumb, till I actually stopped to think about it. He was no fool. Mike ------------- http:/diaries/details.asp?ID=2219" rel="nofollow - Air Nautique 210 Team 640 hours, not 1 regret |
Posted By: horkn
Date Posted: July-16-2010 at 2:34am
Good point. ------------- 78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: July-16-2010 at 3:59am
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Eric. This is not your fault but it is an educational opportunity. Make sure your paperwork covers your butt, and use tags, visual reminders, and installer check lists. I would ship bubble wrapped containers of fluids as both a reminder and good customer service. As a buisness person I would let the customer know that while this incident was not your responsibility you value them and offer to go the extra mile and maybe a discount to get them back in service. You could also offer phone consultaions for installers to reduce the likelyhood of problems occuring. Maybe even educational brochures or web site to help customers choose installers and oversee the work done on transmissions after they have left your shop.Its definitly extra work but most everyone is looking for a hero, in my buisness that is what I try to be.
I think a weekend at green lake would make all this seem better. Dave. ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: Morfoot
Date Posted: July-16-2010 at 9:26am
Eric, I'm gonna say it's your fault and you should have known better. You're a professional for crying out loud. Why on earth would you not put it in there? What were you thinking? 
Just kidding.......... I agree with all the above statements. I will second the ty-rap the dipsick to the tranny somewhere or put a tag on it somewhere that states This unit was shipped w/o oil. Even here at DAL the engine mounted generators are nothing but transmissions and we all know that they are shipped w/o oil. HOWEVER, the repair shop put's tags on em anyway for the idiot who isn't paying attention. I'd also note it on the work order/reciept. It's more of a pain on you but it's also a case of CYA. ------------- "Morfoot; He can ski. He can wakeboard.He can cook chicken.He can create his own self-named beverage, & can also apparently fly. A man of many talents."72 Mustang "Kermit",88 SN Miss Scarlett, 99 SN "Sherman" |
Posted By: harddock
Date Posted: July-16-2010 at 10:02am
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Sometime you need to loose customers that are not worth having. It cost you less in the long run. Tags, and labels are for first timers. Mechanics, hell, they don't need instructions, they have done this dozens of times and often overlook the obvious. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4487" rel="nofollow - 1998 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: July-16-2010 at 10:15am
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a tried rationalizing and reasoning, and spend hours on the phone with do it yourselfers or first timers explaining every step of the way and i guess what threw me on this one is the captain was having his mechanic install the trans, now, to me when you say mechanic or even operate any type of a piece of equipment that your livelyhood is carved from, the very first thing you do is check the oils. this is considered a response vehicle and should be ready at a moments notice...a professional (mechanic) paid to do a job, installed the transmission, and this is part of the job you are being paid for, i did advise the importance of the alignment on this trans...
A good for instance, I installed a v-drive 2 weeks ago and on water tests i took a couple minutes to check 6 dipsticks, engine, trans, v-drive section, the other side had nothing to do with me, but i did check and add. maybe I assumed again that a competant professional was on the boat...it really baffles me ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: kytom2
Date Posted: July-16-2010 at 10:51am
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Hard to make things idiot proof,cause someone will just build a better idiot. ------------- |
Posted By: Morfoot
Date Posted: July-16-2010 at 11:26am
and DAL is LOADED with them! Nice one Tom!  ------------- "Morfoot; He can ski. He can wakeboard.He can cook chicken.He can create his own self-named beverage, & can also apparently fly. A man of many talents."72 Mustang "Kermit",88 SN Miss Scarlett, 99 SN "Sherman" |
Posted By: MI-nick
Date Posted: July-16-2010 at 11:36am
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i still think it's his mechanics fault...but, i'm also thinking stickers that say "NO OIL" would be pretty cheap insurance... ------------- As far as I can tell, I'm not quite sure... |
Posted By: scott04345
Date Posted: July-16-2010 at 1:35pm
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This guy has some sort of captain's license? I wouldn't let him tow my canoe. If he's the licensed captain of a vessel, and doesn't carry an operating engineer onboard, he should at least be able to carry out the first few basics before operating any machinery onboard:
1. Know how to start and stop the machinery. 2. Ensure proper LUBRICATION and cooling. Etc. Just my 2 cents. |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: July-16-2010 at 6:25pm
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the dipstick is a no oil tag, lol
one of these days someone is going to walk in this shop and shoot me, im going to start my own column, the daily things that happen in everyday life. here is the one for today, cash deal local guy i met at the lunch spot, ABS light on, scanned truck, ft sensors faulty, pull wheels clean sensors, replace rt ft harness down to wheel, being the nice guy i threw in 36 ounces of freon into the AC, picks up truck and ....walks in you mfer i want half my cash back cause of the ac is not working anymore, he has his 40 year old kid with him, I actually walked over and grabbed my bat, and said get the fc out here right now before you push my button any farther...they boogied. now I chrged him 200 bucks cash, the wheel sensor was 59.00, 36 ounces of freon 24.00 and about 2.5 hours in labor it was a favor, ive talked to the guy a hundred times anyone else i wouldve banged them for 350.00 wtf, is wrong with this world, or is it me...dont forget i waved the scan charge which is a 4500.00 tool ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: Tim D
Date Posted: July-16-2010 at 7:01pm
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I would put no oil stickers across the mount holes and bell housing holes. Or maybe get some crime scene type tape with no oil printed on it and completely wrap the tranny in it. I know a guy who bought a generator dirt cheap, someone took it back to Lowe's and said it wouldn't run, he bought it after he noticed they never put oil in it which keep it from firing up. ------------- Tim D |
Posted By: peter1234
Date Posted: July-16-2010 at 9:26pm
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i think you cant ship legally with oil in it right? ------------- former skylark owner now a formula but I cant let this place go |
Posted By: The Godfather
Date Posted: July-16-2010 at 10:59pm
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Eric, just remember you are the Man.. Don't let them bring you down, because they are ......holes in this world. Dave |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: July-17-2010 at 10:25am
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you cant ship with oil they will bounce them back or put thme in haz-mat container.
Dave, i take everything with a grain of salt, people are on short fuses lately because of the economy, moreso than ever ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: Luchog
Date Posted: July-17-2010 at 9:28pm
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Eric, what drive was it? clearly is not your fault but a warning label would be the ticket. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2095" rel="nofollow - 1980 Ski Nautique Commander 351W |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: July-18-2010 at 11:13am
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volvo md, cone shift transmission, very pricey ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: July-18-2010 at 11:59am
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Saturday morning fumb duck, get trans in, its toasted, not even close to rebuildable, new trans 8200.00, found 2 good take out running cores, 750.00 for 1 or 1000.00 for both.
advised customer the transmissions are 1 hour away from him and my proposition is: you buy both trannies send them to me, I will build you one good trans and warranty it for my normal year, i keep the other, I will rebuild your front section (its a BW v-drive) and install on one of these rebuilt back sections. when all done and said you give me another 1000.00.....win win all the way around, out of pocket for him with shipping aproximately 2500.00 fcn chp, compared to 8200.00 now the kicker, Are you going to credit me the 500.00 for the other trans? just shook my head ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: July-18-2010 at 12:01pm
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let me know if you guys mind me posting these stories about business and i wont. ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: July-18-2010 at 12:27pm
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Keep going Eric,it reminds us were not alone. I was putting a phone line in a multiple unit building for a lawyer. The building was a converted church,the walls being put up and all the conduits were run horizonally instead of fron the attic.I had a hard time finding out where the walls were,I didn't want to drill and find out I was in someones else's office or the middle of the room.She decided I was taking too long so she went up into the attic to show me how to do it.Thats when she fell thru the ceiling in the main hall of the building,clearing out all the other offices wanting to see what all the noise was- I was able to then measure from the big hole to where the wall was ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: July-18-2010 at 2:04pm
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ha-ha.......was that with a silent chuckle? ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: July-18-2010 at 4:39pm
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No Eric I laughed out loud,she was really talking down to me before it happened. You know how it is, if you know so much why you bothering me, go do it yourself.Couple of months later we were out at dinner,and I saw her, had to point her out to the rest of the family, almost didnt reconize her sitting ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-18-2010 at 6:23pm
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Eric,
This is really a tough one!! First, it sounds like this guy is a good customer so I'm sure you are torn on what to do. You what to take care of him but how far? This really was a miscommunication. The mechanic not knowing the oil wasn't in it BUT he should have checked it. No, gearboxes are shipped dry due to the EPA BS but are clearly labeled as such. In this case you gave it to the captains wife and she carried it so maybe you should have filled it???? You've got to talk to the captain and diplomatically tell him his mechanic is truly a idiot!! No matter what the scenario, it does come down to basics - you do a install of any gearbox be it marine or industrial transmission, you finish with a oil level check. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: July-19-2010 at 2:23pm
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and a water test, I was just a little upset with the guy because i gave the trans back 2 months ago and he waited to install it on the friday july 2nd, and it was a 3 hour ride out there...but the ironic thing is I called a guy i know out there to flip the linkage which is also a veteran mechanic and he took him 10 minutes to flip it and he too never pulleed the stick ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: July-20-2010 at 7:03pm
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to reiterate, i recieved my certified letter from Captain ken along with an invoice for 4583.26. way off my intial investment of 500 bucks.
this is verbatum, "dont even go there that it is our responsibility to check the fluid" "your brother put a piece of cardboard in the trunk of my wifes Cadillac so fluid would not get on the carpet" " the fluid dipstick was tight indicating that it had fluid in it" and the best for last "I have two experienced mechanics, who have installed thier share of new and rebuilt drives, who saw the gear when it was returned from your shop and while it was in storage at my shop, before installation, niether of them saw any reason to doubt that there was fluid in the gear" it goes on and these were some of the highlights, i started checking on my end with other Captains and training excerpts that before any vessel that goes underway all fluids must be checked before start up. and my letter will include, be sure to check the fluid on the new transmission that you purchased.....cause you never know, maybe it does maybe it doesnt ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: July-21-2010 at 9:49am
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Pete, these guys (towguys) are scumbags, they live day to day, no one else will work on they're sht because they got fcd in the past from them, this guy wanted to pick up his trans and send me a check later. there obviously is 2 sides to a story and i dont let them get ahead of me. they are suppose to be leaders, and hand out orders and delegate, in my eyes they are more of a pirate type feeding off broken down boats and salvaging. they're boats are 2 gallons away from sinking and the only time they lift the lid on they're boat is when they smell fire.
Ive been fighting a manifold problem and he was on his 3rd cracked manifold and I went round and round, finding out these idiots removed the restricter plates and thermostat from my engine i rebuiilt. I paid once again for this idiots mistake and i'll be damned if im going to pay for this morons mistake. they are FULL fledged Captains and in other countries they are considered right up there with priests and have the power to marry people. ask any coastie, any person that operates heavy equipment, any firehouse, you dont start that machine until the fluids are checked plain and simple. its a combination of a group of idiots. your paying so called professionals to do a job thats it.... im going to buy a good used outdrive this morning, i will hang it on the boat and as always because i am liable for the boat, i will loosen the top plug on the drive and check the oil, it takes 30 seconds ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: jbear
Date Posted: August-23-2010 at 2:24am
Keep 'em coming. Loved the ceiling story Gary....thats the kind of stuff I miss about working....don't miss much else tho. john ------------- "Loud pipes save lives" AdamT sez "I'm Canadian and a beaver lover myself"... |