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The roof, the roof, the roof is on fire... Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com Category: General Correct Craft Discussion Forum Name: Off Topic Forum Discription: Anything non-Correct Craft URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=19695 Printed Date: January-10-2025 at 10:19pm Topic: The roof, the roof, the roof is on fire... Posted By: Okie Boarder Subject: The roof, the roof, the roof is on fire... Date Posted: October-08-2010 at 2:09pm An interesting article. What do you all think about this? Rural Tennessee fire sparks conservative ideological debate By Brett Michael Dykes – Tue Oct 5, 4:17 pm ET Just about anything can be fodder for an ideological dispute these days. Just consider news of the recent fire at Gene Cranick's home in Obion County, Tenn. Here's the short version of what happened: In rural Obion County, homeowners must pay $75 annually for fire protection services from the nearby city of South Fulton. If they don't pay the fee and their home catches fire, tough luck -- even if firefighters are positioned just outside the home with hoses at the ready. Gene Cranick found this out the hard way. When Cranick's house caught fire last week, and he couldn't contain the blaze with garden hoses, he called 911. During the emergency call, he offered to pay all expenses related to the Fire Department's defense of his home, but the South Fulton firefighters refused to do anything. They did, however, come out when Cranick's neighbor -- who'd already paid the fee -- called 911 because he worried that the fire might spread to his property. Once they arrived, members of the South Fulton department stood by and watched Cranick's home burn; they sprang into action only when the fire reached the neighbor's property. "I hadn't paid my $75 and that's what they want, $75, and they don't care how much it burned down," Gene Cranick told WPSD, an NBC affiliate in Kentucky. "I thought they'd come out and put it out, even if you hadn't paid your $75, but I was wrong." The incident has sparked a debate in many corners of the Web. Writers for the National Review, arguably the nation's most influential right-leaning voice, have seized on the episode to discuss the relative merits of compassionate conservatism versus a hard-line libertarianism. Daniel Foster, a self-described "conservative with fairly libertarian leanings" who writes for the magazine, took issue with the county's laissez-faire approach to firefighting, calling it "a kind of government for which I would not sign up." "What moral theory allows these firefighters (admittedly acting under orders) to watch this house burn to the ground when 1) they have already responded to the scene; 2) they have the means to stop it ready at hand; 3) they have a reasonable expectation to be compensated for their trouble?" Foster wrote. But Foster's colleague Kevin Williamson took the opposite view. Cranick's fellow residents in the rural stretches of Obion County had no fire protection until the county established the $75 fee in 1990. As Williamson explained: "The South Fulton fire department is being treated as though it has done something wrong, rather than having gone out of its way to make services available to people who did not have them before. The world is full of jerks, freeloaders, and ingrates — and the problems they create for themselves are their own. These free-riders have no more right to South Fulton's firefighting services than people in Muleshoe, Texas, have to those of NYPD detectives." Liberals are pouncing on the Cranick fire as an illustration of what they take to be the callous indifference of a market regime that rewards privileged interests over the concerns of ordinary Americans. "The case perfectly demonstrated conservative ideology, which is based around the idea of the on-your-own society and informs a policy agenda that primarily serves the well-off and privileged," Think Progress' Zaid Jilani wrote in a response to the National Review writers. "It has been 28 years since conservative historian Doug Wead first coined the term 'compassionate conservative.' It now appears that if any such philosophy ever existed, it has few adherents in the modern conservative movement." http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_upshot/20101005/pl_yblog_upshot/rural-tennessee-fire-sparks-conservative-ideological-debate Replies: Posted By: MI-nick Date Posted: October-08-2010 at 2:25pm if they put out his fire, next year NO ONE would pay the $75 fee and there would be no fire dept. harsh point, but one that needed to be made in my opinion... ------------- As far as I can tell, I'm not quite sure... Posted By: eric lavine Date Posted: October-08-2010 at 2:32pm who wants to bet this clown will pay the 75 bucks next time, shame on him, just wait until the insurance company shows up and he starts crying again...if i was the insurer i would tell him to piss up a rope... if i was the fire dept i would be chanting burn baby burn, after of course i knew everyone safe ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" Posted By: Okie Boarder Date Posted: October-08-2010 at 4:02pm Do you think he should have to pay for the service or should it just be "free" (paid for by tax revenues)? Posted By: MI-nick Date Posted: October-08-2010 at 4:07pm Okie Boarder wrote: Do you think he should have to pay for the service or should it just be "free" (paid for by tax revenues)? moot point as his area charges a fee that he chose not to pay. ------------- As far as I can tell, I'm not quite sure... Posted By: Hollywood Date Posted: October-08-2010 at 4:43pm If it could be paid for by tax revenue what is the purpose of the fee? ------------- Posted By: Keuka Date Posted: October-08-2010 at 5:10pm My fire protection service is paid for by tax revenue and various fund raisers thorought the year. It is a 100% volunteer department. I have an annual fee that we pay for ambulance service. They will bill my health insurance but I will not have any further liability. If I were to not pay the $40.00 annual fee, I would be liable for 100% of the charge. I think this fire dept should have acted in the same manner. Put out the fire but bill the individual for service. ------------- 86 Martinique Posted By: 05 210 Date Posted: October-08-2010 at 6:01pm MI-nick wrote: if they put out his fire, next year NO ONE would pay the $75 fee and there would be no fire dept. harsh point, but one that needed to be made in my opinion...    Exactly. Play stupid games,win stupid prizes.    Mike ------------- http:/diaries/details.asp?ID=2219" rel="nofollow - Air Nautique 210 Team 640 hours, not 1 regret Posted By: Hollywood Date Posted: October-08-2010 at 6:31pm "Cranick's fellow residents in the rural stretches of Obion County had no fire protection until the county established the $75 fee in 1990." I wonder how long this guy knew this, if he was an original 1990 resident or moved in a few years ago but still chose not to pay the fee. Tough lesson to be learned. ------------- Posted By: Okie Boarder Date Posted: October-08-2010 at 6:55pm I brought it up in a different discussion about this subject, but I'm more of a fan of pay for use then using tax revenue. I'd rather pay a fee for fire protection, ambulance service, just about anything. I'm a little biased on the toll road side of things because I work in the industry, but I like that idea versus publicly (tax) funded roads. I'd be all for plan like this for just about anything we could apply it to. I think this guy go a much better understanding of the idea of "accountability and personal responsibility". Posted By: OverMyHead Date Posted: October-08-2010 at 9:56pm Okie Boarder wrote: Do you think he should have to pay for the service or should it just be "free" (paid for by tax revenues)? I guarentee It would be a lot more than 75 if the local taxing authority got their fingers in it. and there would be no choice to pay it. ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique Posted By: Riley Date Posted: October-08-2010 at 10:08pm They sound like mercenaries, not firemen. ------------- Posted By: 8122pbrainard Date Posted: October-08-2010 at 10:20pm OverMyHead wrote: Okie Boarder wrote: Do you think he should have to pay for the service or should it just be "free" (paid for by tax revenues)? I guarentee It would be a lot more than 75 if the local taxing authority got their fingers in it. and there would be no choice to pay it. Well said! Yes, you pay with taxes if appropriate and built into your taxes or you pay the separate fee if you want the service. What he was expecting was a service without payment. Just as Eric mentioned, I hope the insurance company sticks it to him. Wait a minute, maybe he didn't pay for it as well!     ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < Posted By: Riley Date Posted: October-08-2010 at 11:40pm You guys are cruel. The guy may have been a cheap b**tard, but for the fire department to watch his house burn down over $75.00? That's disgusting. Pete, what kind of fire department do they have up where you built your "shop"? If it's volunteer, I hope you get your wallet out when they come around fund raising. ------------- Posted By: harddock Date Posted: October-08-2010 at 11:58pm Would the scenario change if a kid was trapped in the fire? I can see the law being what it is but having been a fire/rescue person I can't see anyone not doing anything. I have been on a department during a strike and 1/2 the guys wouldn't respond (volunteer) but neighboring towns and some of the town firemen wouldn't let a houe burn to the ground. The service however is compensated for through our property tax. I have mixed feelings on this one. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4487" rel="nofollow - 1998 Ski Nautique Posted By: 8122pbrainard Date Posted: October-09-2010 at 12:09am Riley wrote: Pete, what kind of fire department do they have up where you built your "shop"? If it's volunteer, I hope you get your wallet out when they come around find raising. Bruce, The department is staffed by about 1/4 full time and 3/4 volunteer. It's fully funded via the property taxes. Fund raising? Yes, if I'm up there when they hold the annual firemen's picnic, I make sure I go in town and get a couple of their brats and of course several of their beers! If fire services were a pay on your own system, I'd be paying it just like I do for the non tax paid garbage disposal. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < Posted By: Riley Date Posted: October-09-2010 at 12:14am We're volunteer paid for with property taxes and fund raising. I don't care what the situation is, when they show up with equipement and watch your house burn down to send message, they're not acting like firemen. ------------- Posted By: OverMyHead Date Posted: October-09-2010 at 1:51am Riley wrote: You guys are cruel. The guy may have been a cheap b**tard, but for the fire department to watch his house burn down over $75.00? That's disgusting. Is it much different than taking a guys house for back taxes? This sounds like a private business, offering service where none existed before in the form of firefighting insurance, without them the guys only option would have been to watch it burn. He had the option to pay and chose to take the risk. You can't get life insurance after you are already dead, Or car insurance after the accident, and you can not buy insurance for cancer after you are diagnosed.....ahh nevermind, I guess were gonna do that. If people know that they will get service without paying no one would pay, and then this buisness would cease to exist. Then everyone in the area would have to sit and watch their houses burn down. There is also the problem with a company accessing private property without a contract. Personally If I ran the company I would fight uninsured fires with the owners permission but at an outragous price. Maybe $10,000 per 1000 msq feet of house, you could still get some attention without having to completely enrage the do gooders and soft of heart. ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique Posted By: eric lavine Date Posted: October-09-2010 at 8:47am this guy is self absorbed, probably buys 2 cases of cheap fcn beer a week, 200 bucks in lottery tickets and hates city hall and its represenitives...his way to fck the system, point being its 75 bucks, and he got stung...obviously if there was a kid trapped the firefighters would have gotten the kid out, its not about safety, its about some old codger being an *************** and getting what he deserves. I would also bet he didnt have insurance on the double wide. firefighters risk their lives and any fire could be their last fire, in the same situation I to would refuse to put it out. dollar for dollar it equates to about 40 cents a day for the service ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" Posted By: eric lavine Date Posted: October-09-2010 at 8:49am and to boot, this is a guy that if he had insurance, would squeeze every last nickel from them....he's a taker, not a giver ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" Posted By: eric lavine Date Posted: October-09-2010 at 10:09am I would bet this guy gets a dis-ability check every month...... ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" Posted By: harddock Date Posted: October-09-2010 at 10:32am eric lavine wrote: ...obviously if there was a kid trapped the firefighters would have gotten the kid out, its not about safety, its about some old codger being an *************** and getting what he deserves. and once the kid was out they would go back to watching it burn? Sounds like you know this guy. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4487" rel="nofollow - 1998 Ski Nautique Posted By: eric lavine Date Posted: October-09-2010 at 11:13am I know the type ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" Posted By: Riley Date Posted: October-09-2010 at 11:17am When it's legal for the fire department, police department, armed forces, etc. to choose who and who not they'll protect, we're in big trouble. ------------- Posted By: harddock Date Posted: October-09-2010 at 1:55pm I would think that in a case like the story above the fire department could bill out the cost of putting out the fire ($3,000, $10,000, or whatever) and bill the insurance company which could deduct the amount from what they payout to the homeowner. What would happen if the neighbor who paid the $75 wasn't home, the firemen didn't show up and his house went up too? The fee while reasonable enough would need a bettter job of enforcement. Now we may have to deal with the fire department, the homeowner, Obama, and Biden discussing this on the West lawn over beer. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4487" rel="nofollow - 1998 Ski Nautique Posted By: 8122pbrainard Date Posted: October-09-2010 at 3:03pm Riley wrote: When it's legal for the fire department, police department, armed forces, etc. to choose who and who not they'll protect, we're in big trouble. Bruce, At least they are getting paid via or taxes! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < Posted By: 05 210 Date Posted: October-09-2010 at 6:13pm Riley wrote: We're volunteer paid for with property taxes and fund raising. I don't care what the situation is, when they show up with equipement and watch your house burn down to send message, they're not acting like firemen.    I see what you're saying Bruce, but if the neighbors had not paid the fee they wouldn't have shown up at all.Sticky situation. I highly doubt the firefighters had much say in it.Probably the chief's decision and most likely why he got his ass beat later that night at the firestation.    I don't know any firefighters who would sit by and watch that happen if it was up to them.    Maybe they need a better solution for things like this. Like perhaps if you don't pay the fee, we'll come put your fire out but will send you a bill for the expenses occurred and attach it to a lein on your house until paid. That would keep people honest and not just "forgetting" to pay the fee and expecting service anyway. I don't buy that the guy forgot either. He gambled......and lost.    Mike ------------- http:/diaries/details.asp?ID=2219" rel="nofollow - Air Nautique 210 Team 640 hours, not 1 regret Posted By: peter1234 Date Posted: October-09-2010 at 11:36pm good answer ------------- former skylark owner now a formula but I cant let this place go Posted By: OverMyHead Date Posted: October-10-2010 at 3:09am eric lavine wrote: I know the type Wow , talk about your profiling. You sound like an angry white conservative. Where is the tolerance and compassion? ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique Posted By: eric lavine Date Posted: October-10-2010 at 10:23am were talking about 75 bucks, why would you even question paying for a service, i would bet if this was down in the ghetto you wouldn't give 2 ***************s...its a white guy trying to fck the system. if he was my neighbor and i knew he was uninsured, and no fire service, i would be on his ass. and you would be pissed off if it caught your Tundra in the drive on fire and finding out that your insurance company wont cover it because it wasn't your fire that burned it. Am i profiling, yes, he is a white piece of trash that gambles, and when i say gambles, he went with the odds and didn't think he would ever need the service...I get angry from stupidity ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" Posted By: eric lavine Date Posted: October-10-2010 at 10:40am and, if it happened in the ghetto, we would'nt even be talking about it ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" Posted By: 8122pbrainard Date Posted: October-10-2010 at 10:41am Eric, I wonder if your neighbor is related to this guy?    ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < Posted By: eric lavine Date Posted: October-10-2010 at 10:44am you have a good mind Pete, now you know how I base my opinions. ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" Posted By: Okie Boarder Date Posted: October-10-2010 at 3:43pm I would think that if the guy didn't pay the $75, he wouldn't pay a bill submitted to him either. In the other discussion I had brought up the pay for use idea applied to education for our kids. If you have kids you pay, if not you don't. That got a lot of people riled up...LOL! Posted By: eric lavine Date Posted: October-11-2010 at 9:30am exactly, I think they have implemented the pay for sports in many schools already. not hard to understand, no taxes, no sports the moolah has to come from somewhere...the fcn thing that kills me is I see these hilljacks dropping 2 or 3 hundred bucks at the local store on lottery tickets, which supposedly the lottery earnings should finance education, So......lets turn everything into a lottery such as fire service, water service, sewer service...no more problems, maybe bait and switch? ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" Posted By: Riley Date Posted: October-11-2010 at 9:10pm Totally strange concept to me having a private fire department. I wonder if they have the same rights as a regular fire department, like if you call them do they take over your property or can you kick them off your property at will in the middle of the fire. With a typical government run fire department, you lose all your rights to your property once they have been called. They can have you arrested if you interfere. Same with the police, once you have called them, they take over the situation and you can't do anything to make them leave until they are ready. ------------- Posted By: harddock Date Posted: October-11-2010 at 10:28pm Our PD was charging for false alarms. Upon being billed for one I argued that someone did actually try to break in to which the police said there was no one there when we arrived. So I asked them if just because you didn't catch them (they left once they tripped the alarm) you consider that a false alarm. Once I explained how that was going to read in the local paper along with a picture of the jimmied door they waived the fee. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4487" rel="nofollow - 1998 Ski Nautique

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