Oil threads here are confusing
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Boat Maintenance
Forum Discription: Discuss maintenance of your Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=19698
Printed Date: November-13-2024 at 9:49pm
Topic: Oil threads here are confusing
Posted By: Brody
Subject: Oil threads here are confusing
Date Posted: October-08-2010 at 8:12pm
|
I have a 2000 with a gt 40 pro boss. I operate in middle MN mainly in 60+ degrees. The manual suggests straight 40 for this temp. I read most of you guys are running 20-50 Valvoline or racing or Castrol, or 20-40 Schell, but the manual suggests those viscosities only for under 32 degrees F. Why are so many boat owners running viscosity rated for so cold?
I can't even find plain 40w around Walmart...am I ok running a synthetic 5-30 mobile 1? I used that for my last Nautique and with a yearly oil change never had any problems. I'm very sorry for re-opening a fairly beaten issue, but any advice is very appreciated. |
Replies:
Posted By: horkn
Date Posted: October-08-2010 at 10:03pm
|
See, the manuals are dated material compared to the oil formulations that are out there now. Some people's recommendations on what oil to run if based on info from only a 2-3 years ago is outdated as well.
If the oil had not changed formulas like it has recently, then the manual would be a good source for oil info. Heck, IIRC the manual doesn't even recommend synthetics, LOL I love the phrase "RTFM", but in some instances like this, it is not applicable anymore. ------------- 78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-08-2010 at 10:14pm
|
Brody,
I just pulled up the 2000 manual and found some different numbers than you've stated. In your temp range, I found 30 weight. A multi 20 - 50 fits right in there. A 5 - 30 does not!!!!! Under stand that the lower number of a multi viscosity is the true weight of the oil. The higher number is what the oil "acts like" when hot. A 5 weigh is WAY off the specs you found and still off the spec I found. Why did you pick 5 - 30? Because Walmart had it?? More reading on your part is needed. I feel the even more important item is the ZDDP levels. I'm running 20 - 50 in my 54 and it called for straight 30. Of course back then, they didn't have the multi viscosity! BTW, I say the vast majority of antique and classic boat owners are running the multi weights and with high ZDDP levels. About a year ago at one of my chapters tech clinics, I saw a cam that had run on synthetic. I'm glad someone told me it was a cam. All the lobes were almost round!! 
Why synthetic? Advertising? I sure hope you don't pay attention to the Fram filter ads!!  ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: davidg
Date Posted: October-08-2010 at 10:16pm
|
Not sure how closely you have follow-ed all the talk about oils on here, but, I think the key issue most guys are discussing is the best oil for older, flat tappet motors, and not the temperature at which the boats are operated in.
Recently, the government has mandated that oil mfgs take out the additives that provide wear protection called ZDDP (zinc, and other goodies). ZDDP plugs up catalytic converters....and contributes to air pollution, supposedly. We can't have that. The flat tappet motors key wear/friction area is the contact area between the cam and the lifter/tappet. Your motor, being somewhat more modern, may have a roller rocker valve train, not sure. The roller rockers do not have the same severe wear that the flat tappet cams do, and therefore may be much less suseptable to the high wear flat tappet cam issue. So, it is my opinion that most of the banter is on ZDDP levels to protect the older motors, and not the viscosities related to the temperatures at which the motors are being used in. Some of the others I am sure will be along soon to weigh in, and may be able to give you more specific information about your specific engine, and the best oil for you. My boat is a '76, so I am much more concerned with ZDDP levels for cam wear protection. |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: October-08-2010 at 11:07pm
David, youre confusing roller cams (and lifters) with roller rockers. Opposite ends of the valvetrain... you mean roller cam/lifters. Even the newest Fords (GT40, sold up through 2002) had flat tappet cams. The small block Chevies went roller sometime around 1996-1997, which may have coincided with the introduction of the Vortecs. ------------- |
davidg wrote:Posted By: davidg
Date Posted: October-08-2010 at 11:56pm
See, these darned oil issues are confusing  I knew I might have been getting those two issues or ends of the valve train confused. Roller rocker sounds more natural to me than roller cam. But, yes, roller cam is what I meant.
So, it sounds as though Brody may need to be as concerned also about ZDDP levels, maybe more so than viscosity levels. I have been running 15W40 just because its easy to get, and I "think" it has high enough levels of ZDDP. I will soon find out however. I would feel just as comfortable running straight 30 or 40 weight as well, assuming it had enough ZDDP. |
Posted By: Brody
Date Posted: October-09-2010 at 4:31am
|
Seems like you fellas all run older boats. I don't know anything about the type of motor I have and zinc, etc. I found 20-50 and I think the 20-40, but those looked more like heavy machinery oil, not really something used in a regular motor. Neither listed the zinc levels.
I wonder why the 2000 manual you found reads differently than mine??? Well, from what I've read on these threads maybe I am better off going with the Valvoline 20-50 or Castrol. I"m still a bit confused why my manual suggests that for only very cold operating temp. Oh, definitely don't like Fram filters, but apparently I am a sucker for synthetic. I'm pretty convinced it protects in a greater temp range than convential, but I confess I'm only regurgitating advertising. |
Posted By: Brody
Date Posted: October-09-2010 at 4:36am
| BTW, I picked up some 5-30 because a buddy of mine uses it in a 1994 nautique with the same motor, and I already use that viscosity for my truck. No other reason. But I havent' changed the oil on the boat yet, so there's still time to get it right. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-09-2010 at 10:21am
Why did your friend pick the 5-30? Did Walmart have it the day he went shopping or did a MC owner tell him to use it? Remember, he's basically using a 5 weight oil and your manual says 40 and the one I found (on site) says 30.
Do not use in your truck as a reference for oil. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: October-09-2010 at 11:16am
While its true that most here have older boats than you, your 2000 GT40 has a flat tappet cam- so it falls into the same category as the old iron. From what Ive read, oil technology has come a long way in recent years. Even in the last 10 since your boat was new. Multiviscosity oils are much better than they used to be. Most oils have less zinc (ZDDP) than they used to. Unfortunately, the manual's recommendations are a bit outdated. Oil will generally not list the ingredients and amounts on the bottle. What it will reference is the API specification that the oil meets. If it meets one of the newest, you can bet it has reduced zinc levels. To get more info beyond that, you need to pull the datasheet- most are available online. You'll find that most oils that meet the older standards (and dont have the reduced zinc levels) will be labeled "off road" or "racing". Oils specified for diesels used to be a good choice, but now even modern diesel oil has less and less of the ingredients that our "low-tech" motors need. Long story short, people here have done a lot of research on what is best to use. Valvoline VR1 and Shell Rotella (straight weights) are your best bet. I, and many others, prefer the VR1 in 20w50. If I were to do a lot of late and early season (cold weather) skiing, I may choose to go with 10w30. ------------- |
Posted By: horkn
Date Posted: October-09-2010 at 1:57pm
|
Rotella and VR1 are 2 of the oils that have changed their formulas recently. Until that time, these oils were nearly universally accepted as being proper for our motors. there is also a faction of people that are not so gung ho on using a diesel oil in a gasoline motor.
Do your research and you'll make an informed decision as to what oil to use. BTW, you can convert 351w's and 302's to a roller cam, but as to the RR I don't know if that creates an issue. You might need a custom cam. Also, you can get a roller block 351W block. ------------- 78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-09-2010 at 3:14pm
Tom, Some have great engine/mechanical backgrounds/instincts. Sounds like Brody needs to work on his oil education and may not be the greatest in the engine department like yourself so why confuse the issue by bringing up roller cams? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: horkn
Date Posted: October-09-2010 at 3:30pm
|
Yeah, your right Pete. Just thought I would throw that out there though.:) ------------- 78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
Posted By: Brody
Date Posted: October-10-2010 at 12:39am
|
TT a dealer today, he said they use 15w 40. Has anybody used the Amsoil Synthetic 20-50...says right on the label "hi zinc". Also found an oil called "Brad Penn" at Napa in a straight 30. Apparently that is more of a break-in oil, but also claims to have a high zinc content.
BTW, I thought I was working on my oil education by picking the brains of people with the education??? |
Posted By: SN206
Date Posted: October-10-2010 at 1:05am
|
Does anyone have any thoughts on Royal Purple Oil? ------------- ...those who have fallen and those who will. |
Posted By: Fly100
Date Posted: October-10-2010 at 9:06am
|
To clear this up, i have a 1996 196 with 2300 hours on it.In the UK oil seems to be a little easier to find.Im about to change the oil ready for winter.
Im going for 20/50w Valvoline VR1. Its got 1300ppm of zinc from what I read.Am I correct in the above views ? |
Posted By: davidg
Date Posted: October-10-2010 at 1:50pm
Brody....sorry we have not met your expectations so far. There are a lot of people who have spent years trying to learn as much as possible about the topic, and are passing on what they have learned. One thing for sure, this topic is sure a hot one, and a very interesting one as well. You could just use the oil your buddy uses in his boat or truck, or buy whatever Wally World has on sale.....and hope for the best. You didn't do that. You put your post here looking for some knowledge. Hopefully this discussion has helped your oil education just a little?? Okay class, its Pop Quiz time:). Just having some fun to review the key things this post has covered to see what we have covered so far. 1.) What is the additive that protects a flat tappet cam from excessive wear? Hint: Four letters. 2.) Would it be good to have higher or lower levels of this additive in your oil if you are running a flat tappet motor? 3.) Would you need the same level of this wear additive if you were running a roller "cam" motor? Why? 4.) Have oil mfg's been increasing or decreasing this wear additive over the past several years? Why? 5.) What do the sequential numbers mean on a multi-viscosity oil? What is the first set of numbers? What does the letter "W" mean between these two sets of numbers? What is the second set of numbers. 6.) Would a high viscosity oil mean that it has high or low flow characteristics? 7.) Is the topic of oils a confusing one? Is there one best answer for everybody? I would say that if you can answer the questions on the quiz, you are ahead of the game, and probably more knowledgable than 90% of the general population. What question(s) do you have so that we can try to address them specifically? Your comment above seemed to indicated you haven't gotten much at all from this post??? Cheers! Here's to the never ending quest for knowledge
|
Posted By: horkn
Date Posted: October-10-2010 at 3:09pm
|
Brody, Amsoil works well, and yes it has high zinc.
I wouldn't use a break in oil for regular use. And yes, by asking those that do know, you will know too:) ------------- 78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
Posted By: Brody
Date Posted: October-10-2010 at 7:21pm
|
Woa, easy does it davidg. You completely misinterpreted my comment (I can see why when I reread what I wrote). Somebody else made the comment that I needed to further my oil education, and I was just stating that is what I'm doing here on CCF talking with you guys. I'm not questioning any advice here, certainly not mocking it. Admittedly, I had hoped for a definitive answer, but I've discovered oil advice is as tricky as nutrional or parental advice...many differing opinions can be supported be selective facts.
So here's what I got out of this thread...I just picked up Valv 20w50 VR1 and returned the mobile 1. I realize they may have reduced the zinc, but from what I read they still label it a "high zinc" formula. And I'll stick with that or 15w40 Rotella or valvoline. I've learned friends shouldn't let friends give bad viscosity advice. That assuming a big 8 cyl in your truck shall not be compared to the big 8 cyl in your Nautique. But most importantly, don't admit to buying anything at Walmart. Still, I'm curious about the Amsoil 20w50 Synthetic High Zinc stuff. I can buy that in my small hometown, but doesn't seem like too many on this forum have any experience with Amsoil. |
Posted By: Brody
Date Posted: October-10-2010 at 7:29pm
|
Thanks HOrkn, I'll consider that "green lighted" also. Here's another question...are the 15w40's all primarily considered a diesel engine oil?
Thanks everyone! |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: October-10-2010 at 8:49pm
You have posted this several times recently and I question your information. What are you basing this on? To my knowledge, both the straight weight Rotella and VR1 both have 1300+ ppm zinc. ------------- |
Posted By: davidg
Date Posted: October-10-2010 at 11:40pm
Brody....My apologies if I mis-interpreted what you were saying. I must be getting crotchety in my old age I guess I just jumped to conclusions about what you meant.
Anyway, I think you made a good choice in oils. A couple reasons for saying that. 1.) Many of the guys on here seem to like it. So, you can't get a much better recommendation than that. 2.) I was at Farm & Fleet getting a new set of tires today, so I had PLENTY of time to peruse the huge wall of oil brands there. Long story short, knowing what I know now after trying to absorb as much as possible on this forum, and other searces, the Valvoline VR1 20W50 was the ONLY oil that jumped out at me as being one I would buy. - On the can, it said "Extreme Race Level Protection". - Upon reading the back of the label, it did say it had extra ZDDP for wear reduction. It didn't say how much, but, the fact it even mentioned it gave me confidence that it was good stuff. Some other observations on oils in general: - Not many mfgs offer straight weights anymore. Mostly multi's. - LOTS of misleading information on the cans....ie..."high performance", "good for high milage engines", "Meets Mfgs Requirements...", etc, etc, etc. - Based on all the great marketing slogans on the packaging, one might think that every oil in the place was THE BEST oil. - Mobil 1 synthetic jumped out at me as being potentially very confusing. LOTS of multi-weight offerings with very slick slogans on the packaging. Sure, synthetics can go 10K, or 15K miles between changes, but, I think what that is saying is that the oil doesn't break down like std oils do as quickly. It doesn't really address the issue of ZDDP/Anti-Wear forumulas, so to me, that could be very misleading, and one could potentially put something they think is great in their engine, and it could be the total wrong stuff. So, for me, it would be the Valvoline VR1 20W50, or the Rotella's. However, one very knowledgeable at Farm & Fleet told me he switched from Rotella to Delvac (Mobil's Diesel Oil) 15W40 in everything he owned, including Harley's and 60's muscle cars, as it didn't seem to breakdown as early as the Rotella did, and allowed his oil pressure to stay much higher for longer periods of time. |
Posted By: horkn
Date Posted: October-12-2010 at 3:52am
The info has been posted before. It's out there for anyone to find. ------------- 78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-12-2010 at 8:41am
Tom, I'd like to see it as well. Just as Tim mentioned, you've stated the change now back it up. The figures I'm finding are still in the 1300 range. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: October-12-2010 at 2:04pm
|
As of 12-15-08 this is what Valvoline is publishing. Shell won't publish anything. Tom, do you have something more recent than this?
http://valvoline.com/pdf/VR-1_Racing_Motor_Oil.pdf - http://valvoline.com/pdf/VR-1_Racing_Motor_Oil.pdf ------------- |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: October-12-2010 at 2:32pm
|
What does this mean?
Zinc/Phosphorus 0.14/0.13 ------------- |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: October-12-2010 at 2:39pm
Its a percentage of the content, Bruce- 0.14% zinc and 0.13% phos. 0.14% = 1400 ppm (parts per million) ------------- |
Posted By: davidg
Date Posted: October-12-2010 at 10:38pm
| What is the minimum level of Zinc we need for the flat tappet cams? |
Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: October-13-2010 at 12:54am
1200 and below is like gambling with a cheap condom. You may get lucky! 
I just ordered 15 gal.[3 gal. to the case}I ordered the T but received T1 designation . Do not know the skinny yet but I did not add it to my oil inventory........For what its worth , same bar code as the T....... ------------- boat dr /diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart /diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier |
Posted By: davidg
Date Posted: October-13-2010 at 2:36am
|
As far as the Rotella 15W40, based on what I have been reading, the API code for diesel use has gone from CI-4 (older rating=good ZDDP levels) to CJ-4 (newer rating=less ZDDP). I believe the Rotella 30W still carries the older CI-4 rating. Maybe the T1 designation is the newer CJ-4 rating??
|
Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: October-13-2010 at 1:51pm
|
The old Rotella T is now T1, ZDDP has been lowered to 800 ppm.
Rotella T Triple in 10/30 and 15/40 have ZDDP at 1200 ppm Rotella T5[blended] in 10/30 and 10/40 have ZDDP at 1200 ppm Rotella T6 [synthetic] in 5/40 have ZDDP at 1200 ppm They have lowered the ratio in some and raised it in some.The guy at Shell I spoke with says all the above will meet the needs of the older flat tappet engines.There is a window on the ratio's. 1000 ppm too little and 1400 ppm and above will cause damage. His recommendation for our motors was the T6 in 5/40 full sythetic.  Hope this confuses every one else, sure has ME...........Billy------------- boat dr /diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart /diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-13-2010 at 2:24pm
|
Billy,
When I was looking for a straight 30 for the break in oil for my Flexifour, I too found out that Shell made the changes. I ended up with a Rotella straight 30 T1 but I have at least a pint of Joe Gibbs break in grease in the thing!!!! A hour of running and it will come out and VR1 20-50 will go in it. Tom, I, and I believe Tim were asking about you backing up your claim to the Valvolene VR1 changes.
You said to go look but I can't find anything. Back it up with facts!!! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: October-13-2010 at 5:14pm
|
i´m about to do my oil change..and was quoting the vr-1..used to pay around $13 a quart at the local autolube..
found a dealer that sells the 12 1 quarts bottles at $7.5 each...nice saving...  I don´t care over stocking them as I use it also on my vette!!!
------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: davidg
Date Posted: October-13-2010 at 10:43pm
|
Rotella Test Results Are In......Thank you Andy (Waterdog)!!
I decided to take Waterdog up on his generous offer to test our oils to check for zinc, and many other compounds in used, and new oil. So, I sent him three samples of Rotella (two of them blind samples). The results are as follows: Blind Sample #1 was Rotella T1 30 Wt. new oil: Zinc 902 Blind Sample #2 was Rotella T Triple Protection 15w40 new oil: Zinc 1531 Sample #3 was Rotella T Triple P. 15w40 from my boat filled in June: Zinc 1533 The Rotella T1 30 Wt meets API CF-2, and CF. The Rotella Triple Protection meets API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CH-4, CG-4, CF/SM. I guess for my money, and desiring to use an "off-the-shelf" high ZDDP oil, I will stay with the Rotella Triple Protection 15w40. |
Posted By: horkn
Date Posted: October-13-2010 at 11:50pm
|
I'm pretty certain I posted a link on CCF with the new formula Vr1 info on it. That link from 08 I think was right before they changed their formula.
I can see if I have a chance to find it again, but I was shocked when I read it. A lot of flat tappet GM, ford and Mopar fans were shocked as well. I guess the easier to answer question is "what VR1 oil weights are SM rated?" David, that rotella might have too much ZDDP. ------------- 78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
Posted By: davidg
Date Posted: October-13-2010 at 11:59pm
|
Tom;
For what its worth....that level of 1531 was just the zinc, and not ZDDP. The ZDDP is a measure of zinc, phosphorous, and possibly some other additives. As I understand it from Waterdog, I believe it takes a special test to check for Phosphorous. I will have to go back and double check an email he sent to me on the issue. But, why do you say it may be too high?? Just curious. Trying to learn. |
Posted By: horkn
Date Posted: October-14-2010 at 12:14am
|
David, I wasn't realizing that was only the Zinc level you posted, and not the levels of ZDDP.
Billy points out earlier that the oil you are using has 1200 ppm of ZDDP. It's been pointed out on here,and many other places that more than 1400 ppm of ZDDP is not good either. I guess the real answer to whether VR1 is safe for our flat tappet motors is an analysis of ZDDP levels from a third party. I'm sure that can be coordinated. All but 10w-30 VR1 is SM rated. I don't think anyone here has recommended the 10w-30 VR1. ------------- 78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
Posted By: Brody
Date Posted: October-14-2010 at 1:35am
| IN the question/answer thread under Valvoline's VR-1, they answer the zinc question with 1300ppm. There is no date on the question. |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: October-14-2010 at 2:01am
|
[QUOTE=8122pbrainard] I ended up with a Rotella straight 30 T1 but I have at least a pint of Joe Gibbs break in grease in the thing!!!!
Yea that Toyota break in grease would be good enough for that thing ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: Randy_in_Ohio
Date Posted: October-14-2010 at 1:59pm
|
Here is a link I found to a virgin oil analysis for Valvoline VR1 20W-50.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=819165 - VOA of VR1 20W-50 Looks like he even had the lab retest the sample to be sure. zinc= 921/875 Phosphorous= 765/762 We may need to take another look at this oil. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1602&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995" rel="nofollow - 1993 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: October-14-2010 at 2:07pm
|
Read the whole thread.
"Here's how a blend of VR1 20W50 (2 qts) and VR1 60W (1 qt) looked when I ran it in my motorcycle. It did a great job. I think Blackstone needs to sample that oil again." "I think it's very possible--and even likely--that the add pack had settled to the bottom of the container as the oil sat on the shelf. A sample was poured out for testing by Blackstone, but a lot of the add pack carrier was left in the bottom of the oil bottle. Other elements are showing up in lower than typical numbers in this VOA--not just zinc and phos. So it is my assertion that the add pack was not fully sampled here, due to inadequate mixing before filling the sample cannister." "I just had a UOA done on VR1 (with only 1800 miles on it) and it came out having 1201 Phos and 1560 Zinc. Used Blackstone." "valvoline has all the ZDDP that is advertised... BlackStone labs have been remiss reporting due to calibration errors. that they acknowledged over @ team chevelle... THEY GOOFED... this was done in 2008... I have had Valvoline VR1 30weight and Valvoline 20W50 tested by two different labs.. the samples were taken from the same bottle and sent to Polaris labs http://www.polarislabs1.com/oil-analysis.htm and to analysts inc http://www.analystsinc.com/index.html... the results were with in 10% of each other.. Zinc was well over 1400ppm and phosphorus was 1300ppm..." I will send some new and well used VR1 20w-50 to Waterdog when I change it next month. ------------- |
Posted By: Randy_in_Ohio
Date Posted: October-14-2010 at 2:23pm
|
After reading down the thread a little more I found this post by a guy calling himself "Veno"
"valvoline has all the ZDDP that is advertised... BlackStone labs have been remiss reporting due to calibration errors. that they acknowledged over @ team chevelle... THEY GOOFED... this was done in 2008... I have had Valvoline VR1 30weight and Valvoline 20W50 tested by two different labs.. the samples were taken from the same bottle and sent to Polaris labs http://www.polarislabs1.com/oil-analysis.htm and to analysts inc http://www.analystsinc.com/index.html... the results were with in 10% of each other.. Zinc was well over 1400ppm and phosphorus was 1300ppm... Valvoline is everything they say it is and I use it... I run a very aggressive Solid FT cam with 180 lbs on the seat and 350 over the nose.... I did a breaking with delo400 and have ran a steady diet of VR1 straight 30weight.... veno" Maybe Waterdog can do a VOA on the VR1 20W-50 for us? It may be worth a second look since it seems a lot of the oil manufactures have been lowering the zinc in their formulas lately. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1602&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995" rel="nofollow - 1993 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: October-14-2010 at 2:35pm
|
I hope the stuff is good as I bought 5 cases of it on Hollywood's recommendation. ------------- |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: October-14-2010 at 2:52pm
|
I still have over 40 quarts left from that Autozone sale earlier this year. We'll blow up together Bruce! ------------- |
Posted By: Waterdog
Date Posted: October-14-2010 at 4:38pm
|
Davidg and I have been talking about oil. This is some of what I wrote.
The chemistry of oil additives is a science on its own. The additives are the salt & pepper. As long as the zinc and phosphorus is solubilized I'd think its OK. At some point the oil will become saturated with an additive and that additive will fall out of solution. The "recipe" will no longer be homogenous, it could form a gel and fall to the bottom, rise to the top or float in suspension in the solution. There is a safety factor in the chemistry. This is just a guess but say if 1500 ppm zinc is high, the zinc saturation point would be on the order of 2500-3000 ppm. Just incase someone adds 2 cans of STP to there car. ------------- - waterdog - http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=3896&sort=&pagenum=2&yrstart=1978&yrend=1978" rel="nofollow - 78 Ski Tique |
Posted By: Randy_in_Ohio
Date Posted: October-14-2010 at 5:22pm
|
Sorry for the misleading link. HW beat me to the rest of the story. I found another post over at bobistheoilguy.com from March 2010 that shows the VR1 to be high in ZDDP. So it looks like it is still a good choice.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1983856 - BITOG VR-1 ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1602&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995" rel="nofollow - 1993 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: Randy_in_Ohio
Date Posted: October-14-2010 at 5:31pm
Those guys over at BITOG take the oil debate to the next level!
 ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1602&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995" rel="nofollow - 1993 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: October-15-2010 at 2:00am
|
According to Bob, we really should be discussing when to change oil fall or spring. Maybe change it in the fall, take it out & store it in the basement, then remember to add it again in the spring. Forget it's empty & the ZDDP PPM will be a minor issue. ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: October-15-2010 at 10:09am
|
so we decided on?
I look at it this way, some trucks, many trucks rack up a million miles before a rebuild, much tighter clearances on a diesel, 500 lbs compression, and they use nothing but Rotella..i dont see any of these guys dumping in 8.00 a qt oil in. personally i go by statistics. plus that VR1 is blue. ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |