WET vs ROT- the documentary
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Boat Maintenance
Forum Discription: Discuss maintenance of your Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=19991
Printed Date: November-19-2024 at 1:34pm
Topic: WET vs ROT- the documentary
Posted By: WOFTAM
Subject: WET vs ROT- the documentary
Date Posted: November-15-2010 at 9:20pm
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After messing about with resizing images, I decided to just place a link to a picasa folder. It should be
http://picasaweb.google.com/mike.macqueen/CORRECTCRAFTFAN?feat=email# - HERE It currently contains some images that are a fraction of what I have taken in the winterization process turned re-stringing. Would you please let me know if you can see the images? More to come. ------------- Just because you can does not mean you should. |
Replies:
Posted By: 82 Nautique 1
Date Posted: November-15-2010 at 9:41pm
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See them ok, Good luck with your project. I re worked a 1988 last winter.
------------- Original Owner " Dennis" http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4855" rel="nofollow - 1982 Nautique |
Posted By: Donald80SN
Date Posted: November-15-2010 at 10:29pm
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Looking good. I have a 80 so I am watching with anticipation that I will someday be doing what you are doing.
Donald |
Posted By: Swatkinz
Date Posted: November-15-2010 at 10:54pm
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did i understand your photo comments in that astroturf was actually glassed into the stringer as a repair? ------------- Steve 2011 Sport/Air 200 Excalibur 343 2017 Boatmate Tandem Axle Trailer Former CC owner (77, 80, 95, 88, all SNs) Former Malibu owner (07, 09) |
Posted By: WOFTAM
Date Posted: November-16-2010 at 12:22am
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Ha! No, that is what the mufflers were wrapped in to reduce vibration. I guess it was a factory thing. However, that is stainless steel that was screwed to the floor. The other side was also steel, just not stainless...but it is 1/8" . Between that and the rubberized roofing mnaterial, I must have pulled out at least 40 lbs of metal and wet wood. I found the bottle rockets in the forward vent intake area. ------------- Just because you can does not mean you should. |
Posted By: Donald80SN
Date Posted: November-16-2010 at 12:25am
| My mufflers also have the astro turff. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: November-16-2010 at 9:49am
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Mike,
Interesting use of "alternate" materials!  Do you know if the PO did it or a "pro"?------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: November-16-2010 at 11:44am
I bet a lot more people would take a look at your pictures if you actually posted them here instead of providing a link. Or maybe its just me!  ------------- |
Posted By: skfitz
Date Posted: November-16-2010 at 2:11pm
You've taken pictures of your work in some exotic locations. But how did you get picture 17 -- the pic of some new lumber -- in the middle of Hudson Bay?
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Posted By: storm34
Date Posted: November-16-2010 at 3:15pm
You are kidding me?!?! This metal piece was a patch?! I thought I'd seen some boats in bad shape, but thats a new one! ------------- |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: November-16-2010 at 6:43pm
WOW didn´t noticed that!!! 
BTW nice shift knob!!! ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
storm34 wrote:Posted By: WOFTAM
Date Posted: November-17-2010 at 12:16am
It is hard to tell. I think the boat has had pretty extensive stringer work done once before. The aluminum grid and engine had to have been pulled once before. As I am under the dash area,I can see the main stringers have been covered in biaxial cloth for their entire length as well as sistered in ANOTHER location. That makes 4 sisters total...I dont think biaxial cloth was a factory material but I dont know. I have to believe that the metal and roofing materials were work of someone who was handy, but not necessarily a pro. I am glad that it was not me that paid for the repair, but I guess I am now. Thanks for the comment on the shift knob. I made that myself. Little did I know that a cracked knob would be the least of my concerns. ------------- Just because you can does not mean you should. |
Posted By: WOFTAM
Date Posted: November-23-2010 at 12:31am
Newest image showing what was under the sistered portions of the stringers:
There were four joints like this on the main stringers. All stringers have been removed. I am sore! More pics posted at link above in first post. ------------- Just because you can does not mean you should. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: November-23-2010 at 8:50am
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This is a very good example of why I as well as others always recommend a complete down to the hull stringer job. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Okie Boarder
Date Posted: November-23-2010 at 12:59pm
Yup. The more I see previous repair jobs done half-assed, the more I realize why it is better and more effective to do it right the first time....or "DIRT FOOT" as some people say. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: November-23-2010 at 1:21pm
And who mentioned the word "scarf" awhile back?? 
------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Keeganino
Date Posted: November-23-2010 at 5:49pm
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Good to see another CC saved! Glad you went all the way now I bet. ------------- "working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4897" rel="nofollow - 1973 Skier |
Posted By: WOFTAM
Date Posted: November-24-2010 at 12:19am
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Yes, I will admit that I considered a scarf initially. The thing I cant understand with the prior repair is why they left the ends of the stringers in...The motor was pulled, all of the hard stuff was done. It was just plain lazy.
I have developed more questions on this process and will be soliciting some input soon. I am looking forward to more quality time with her over the long weekend. Thanks again for all of the help and encouragement. ------------- Just because you can does not mean you should. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: November-24-2010 at 9:07am
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Mike,
We're always around incase something comes up. Keep going and save that boat!  Don't forget the CPES and use Epoxy resin - you'll be passing the boat down to grand children!!------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: WOFTAM
Date Posted: November-28-2010 at 9:50pm
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Pics updated on the link.
4 hours of grinding today. The worst part was hosing myself down in all of my clothes in 35 degree weather so I did not get any of the dust in the garage or house. I looked like a ghost when I took the respirator off. I am have decided to take the bottom of the floor down to the glass so that I know that I am bonding to good material. It is adding some extra time, but I have plenty of time to do it properly. I received some .dwg files from Roger that will aid me in the basic shaping of the main stringers. I am anxious to get them printed and to get to work on shaping the fir. Thanks to all who have chimed in with the guidance! ------------- Just because you can does not mean you should. |
Posted By: Keeganino
Date Posted: November-29-2010 at 5:29pm
You gotta get some of http://cgi.ebay.com/25-DuPont-TY120S-L-Disposable-Tyvek-White-Coverall-Suit-/160508778800?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item255f119930 - these unless you just like the cold shower. I bought 20 suits and used all but 2. I also got the ones with a hood and shoe covers. Made it possible to go inside without the cold shower or tracking dust all through the house. My daughter was 2 at the time and I did not want to expose her. You are making great progress. Its a good feeling when you finally get all that wet nasty foam out of there isn't it! ------------- "working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4897" rel="nofollow - 1973 Skier |
Posted By: akabulla
Date Posted: November-29-2010 at 6:35pm
| Even if you use the suit cover your arms in baby powder. It will really help! 2 years later and I am still cleaning white powder off stuff in my garage! |
Posted By: Okie Boarder
Date Posted: November-29-2010 at 9:09pm
| Duct tape the wrist openings too, that helps. You're coming along nicely. |
Posted By: WOFTAM
Date Posted: November-29-2010 at 11:21pm
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I ran home from work today and hopped into my carhartt suit. It did not do as well as a job as I had hoped even though I taped wrists, ankles and neck. It is now in the wash.
I should have remembered the tyvek suit. I has a few from painting the antifouling paint on the bottom of the sailboat. So I received notice of a 48 hour sale from Jamestown Distributors on the West System Epoxy. I have until tomorrow night at midnight to get this deal ($79.99/gallon-resin only) Hardener is $39.98/quart. I have read much about the US Composites house brand epoxy. There is a price point here but I am weighing it with my experience with the West System product line. Some new terms that I have read about here are cabosil and milled fiber. West does not have those additives, but many others. If I use the West, I plan on using Six-10 to bond the stringers down and then standard 105/205 mixed with 406 (Collodial Silica) for the laminating. If anyone can chime in with experience using the US Composites and long term performance, I would appreciate it. Looks like I am ready to do some bonding:  ------------- Just because you can does not mean you should. |
Posted By: Matt R.
Date Posted: November-30-2010 at 12:03am
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I am using US Composites on my stringers and it seems to be working well. US Composites sells West systems and their cost is the same as this midnight deal at Jamestown Distributors and their hardener is even cheaper on US Composites. You can just go to their website and it's at the bottom of their epoxy/resin page. ------------- Matt R. |
Posted By: WOFTAM
Date Posted: November-30-2010 at 12:37am
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How many gallons do you need for a stringer job? I plan on using biaxial cloth.
Good word on the everyday price at US composites . ------------- Just because you can does not mean you should. |
Posted By: WakeSlayer
Date Posted: November-30-2010 at 2:49pm
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I want to say I am at about 6-7 gallons used, and still need to do a bulkhead, battery box, longitudinals, and the floor. This is in the 67 SN.
I did the rudder plate, and the exhaust plates, also. ------------- Mike N 1968 Mustang |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: November-30-2010 at 5:41pm
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I got the 5 gal kit twice on my BFN and have a little left. There's nothing wrong with the product at US, but I have heard that you may get more tech support with West. I think West also has mostly the same fillers but maybe under different names. I used milled fiber, cabosil, microbubbles, and talc. They are all fillers/thickeners that have their own best uses. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: Keeganino
Date Posted: November-30-2010 at 5:45pm
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I used all 10 gallons of USC resin and 3 gallons of hardener, but I did a few other repairs not associated with the stringers and floor. My layup consisted of 2 layers each of 2", 4", and 8" 8.9 oz cloth tape. Topped by biaxial straddling the fillet on each side of the stringers and a layer over the top. I double capped with biaxial from engine mount to tranny mount, and used cabosil as my thickener for bedding stringers, rudder port, etc. Milled fiber is the strongest thickener, but cab is also very strong and its easy to work with.
I was happy with the USC materials and would use them again. They have everything you need on one site. Take your time, make 1 order and don't feel pressured to buy tonight before midnight. ------------- "working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4897" rel="nofollow - 1973 Skier |
Posted By: Wacko
Date Posted: November-30-2010 at 10:24pm
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Great work so far. Is your boat an 80 or 81?
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Posted By: WOFTAM
Date Posted: December-01-2010 at 10:27pm
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The boat is a 1981. It even has the special "Happy Anniversary thing" on the aft port gelcoat.
Today was easy. I completed the mock up of the secondary stringer and started joining pieces of 1X6X10 #3 pine for the main mock up. see pics 
 ------------- Just because you can does not mean you should. |
Posted By: dochockey
Date Posted: December-03-2010 at 4:19pm
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Are you close to Richland? ------------- 1989 Teal Ski Nautique 1967 Mustang Harris Float Sunfish |
Posted By: WOFTAM
Date Posted: December-03-2010 at 7:52pm
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I am a few miles West of Richland. I sail on Gull Lake regularly. ------------- Just because you can does not mean you should. |
Posted By: dochockey
Date Posted: December-06-2010 at 2:34pm
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Would it be ok if I stop by and take a look see? ------------- 1989 Teal Ski Nautique 1967 Mustang Harris Float Sunfish |
Posted By: WOFTAM
Date Posted: December-08-2010 at 10:58pm
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Sure. PM me your contact info and I will give you a call.
------------- Just because you can does not mean you should. |
Posted By: dochockey
Date Posted: December-09-2010 at 12:28pm
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2697202356 ------------- 1989 Teal Ski Nautique 1967 Mustang Harris Float Sunfish |
Posted By: WOFTAM
Date Posted: January-25-2011 at 11:28pm
I just moved the boat to some warmer digs for some stringer bedding in the immediate future.
I have a few questions before I get to it: 1) All stringers are removed. Would it be best to bed/glass the secondaries or primaries first? 2) How much of the old tabbing is OK to leave? I am attaching pics of that I have left so far. 
3) I was very surprised at how much of the original stringers were not in contact with the floor of the boat. (as evidenced by voids in the adhesive after the removal) Since these are "live" stringers, is it a good idea to fill a tube with West Six 10 and shoot between the bottom of the stringers and the floor? 4) Lastly, to avoid any permanent mis-shaping of the hull, I plan on putting 4X4X10 blocks at each aft corner of the hull and trailer bunk and one 4x4x20 under the bow ares so that the bunks do not affect the hull shape in this fragile state. 5) I have always wondered what trailer model I have. It seems long for this boat. Can anyone let me know what it is? It does have CC logos on it. 6) Any other words of encouragement of things I am overlooking before I go to it? Sorry Dochockey. I totally dropped the ball on calling you. I apologize. The winter home is not far from my hose. I will give you a call. Thanks Y'all! ------------- Just because you can does not mean you should. |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: January-26-2011 at 11:57am
A few answers: 1. Ive always tackled primaries first and then moved to the secondaries. This gives plenty of room to lay glass without the primary/secondary getting in the way of each other. Structurally it probably doesnt make much difference so long as the hull is supported properly. 2. If the remaining glass is solid, then you can probably leave it. On my Skier, Im leaving a similar amount of the channels as you have shown. On our BFN, we tore up every single last piece of glass used to bond the old stringers so that our new ones were bonded directly to the hull. 3. Im not familiar with West 610. Is that more like a 5200 or a thickened resin? The trend here seems to be to solidly bond the stringer to the hull. Some put a layer of mat down to take up the void, others use thickened resin. Ive heard of techniques where the stringer floats instead to prevent stress concentrations (some put a thin layer of foam under the wood stringer) but I have not seen that method used on a Correct Craft. 4. I would definitely block the hull. It may not be needed on the smaller 16' boats, but that might be pushing it with a 2nd gen SN. Our BFN definitely deflected while it was on the trailer, so we blocked the rear corners and just under the chines toward the front (right around the windshield). 5. You have a 2001 era delux #3 (1984-1988). Its probably borderline too big for your boat? Its definitely a wider trailer than the pre-2001 (1981 and prior) #3. 6. You look to be in pretty good shape. I will tell you that any and all hardware you can remove (like the through hull fitting for the water intake) will make your life easier while doing stringer work. Also, have you decided whether or not to replace the other wood in the boat (rudder port, transom wood, etc)? Ours in the BFN was totally soaked and rotten. Putting in thicker backing plates for the platform brackets is probably a good idea too- so you'll want to grind the gel off in those areas as well. Off topic- how do you like your new 4Runner? I was bummed to see Toyota drop the V8 option... my father and I have '07 and '08 V8's and have been very happy with them. ------------- |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: January-26-2011 at 12:34pm
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I'd just like to add that more grinding is needed especially where the stringers sit on the hull (the black areas). You want to get down to some good glass as Tim mentioned. If you see some areas where resin has ponded, grind them as well. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: WOFTAM
Date Posted: January-26-2011 at 10:14pm
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Thanks for the replies. I was fearing more grinding...I am also planning on replacing the backing around the rudder post.
"Off topic- how do you like your new 4Runner? I was bummed to see Toyota drop the V8 option... my father and I have '07 and '08 V8's and have been very happy with them." I love the 4Runner. I have had it for about a year. Despite the dead spot between 2500 and 3500 RPM, it is a nice vehicle that suits my needs well. The V6 puts out 270HP which I think is pretty close to the V8. Back to "the grind" ------------- Just because you can does not mean you should. |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: January-27-2011 at 12:10pm
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Dont forget to check the transom wood too... might as well get it all done while youre in there.
The new V6 has some good hp numbers- theyre actually a bit better than the old 4.7L V8 (260hp)... but it doesnt match it for torque. I love the V8 for towing. ------------- |
Posted By: WOFTAM
Date Posted: January-27-2011 at 12:16pm
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By transom wood do you mean the exhaust through hulls and lifting points? Is there more wood that I don't know about? ------------- Just because you can does not mean you should. |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: January-27-2011 at 12:21pm
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I hate the idea of ripping in to the rudder, exhaust and through hull supports not knowing if they need replacement or not. Do you think a moisture meter would indicate if they are wet or not? ------------- |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: January-27-2011 at 12:26pm
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Bruce, someone recently used Pete's method for inspecting for wet/rotten wood in the transom- they took a 1" drill bit and took the glass off in a few sections to inspect the wood that was encapsulated beneath it.
Mike, anywhere there is a bulge in the transom, there is wood. There should be a large piece glassed to the center that the lifting ring assembly mounts to. There will also be some wood around the exhaust ports. There may not be any wood behind the platform brackets- but I would remove the gel from those areas and glass some in for reinforcement while youre in there. ------------- |
Posted By: WOFTAM
Date Posted: January-27-2011 at 12:30pm
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There is no doubt that my rudder post needs it. I am not sure about the exhaust though. For checking the water content, a 2 prong moisture meter may suffice. They cost about 1/10th of the painless ones and can be bought at REAL paint stores. ------------- Just because you can does not mean you should. |
Posted By: Keeganino
Date Posted: January-27-2011 at 12:43pm
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The odds of your exhaust ports being wet are about 1000:1. The wood is exposed all the way around the inside. Its only a couple more hours of work and does not add any cost. I personally would not leave it to chance.
My lifting assembly 
All new wood in the transom including platform reiforcememnts ready to be glassed.  ------------- "working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4897" rel="nofollow - 1973 Skier |
Posted By: WOFTAM
Date Posted: January-28-2011 at 10:24pm
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Thanks for the replies guys.
The Wes Six 10 is a thickened epoxy that comes in caulk tubes. West System is a bit more pricey than the US Comp epoxy, but I have used it for years. It is also a Michigan company, so I dont mind giving a nod to the local guys. What is the proper trailer for this boat? The boat will bit in my garage, but the trailer itself is about 21' long. Will the bunk setup damage the hull if I continue to use it? Is the trailer that I have sought after? Is it worth taking to a trailer manufacturer and having them chop it down. Maybe it is something for the ccfan classifieds? Hopefully, I can grind some fiberglass tomorrow (I cannot believe I just wrote that) ------------- Just because you can does not mean you should. |
Posted By: Air206
Date Posted: January-28-2011 at 10:57pm
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The Trailer looks like it is for a longer (later 80's) Correct Craft but it is a CC trailer..... don't go choppin' nuttin'! Check out reference section: 81 #3 trailer was for 17-18 ft inboards and 86-later Ski Nautiques were longer.
You should be able to unbolt the bowstop and slide it back. The turnbuckle should move with the bowstop assembly. It looks like you will still have reasonable tongue weight once done. Save your money for "stringer sauce"......... when she is done and you want her to be a trailer queen...... then switch trailers if you still feel that you want one that fits her better....... IMHO... ------------- https://tinyurl.com/y6t5e3bu" rel="nofollow - 04 Air206 http://tinyurl.com/9urzgls" rel="nofollow - 91 Barefoot 78 SkiTiq |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: January-29-2011 at 12:10pm
Some good info here, some not-quite-right info as well. I think I explained your trailer situation on the previous page, but Ill repeat myself. You have a 2001 #3 trailer. Its the delux version with diamond plate steps and 6 lug wheels/axle that they started offering in mid '83 (through '88). All 2001 #3's (even the non-delux 82-83 versions) are larger than the #3 trailers that came under the 1st and 2nd gen 17-18' boats (Ski Nautiques, Martiniques, Mustang 17's, etc.). They are wider (bunk spacing and track) and longer. I would NOT cut that trailer. It shouldnt be a hard task to sell yours and buy the correct sized #3 if you want to. In the meantime, youre not doing any damage to the hull. I would also NOT move the bow stop to adjust where the hull sits on it UNLESS the tongue weight is way off. ~10% of the total weight (250-300 lbs) is what youre shooting for. Small changes in where that bow stop is placed will result in big changes in tongue weight. Incorrect tongue weight will make the boat hard to move around in the garage (if its excessive) or cause erratic, unsafe towing situations (if its too light). If you choose to go to West for all your epoxy, thats your call- I have heard nothing but good things in terms of quality. I will warn you that based on the prices Ive seen, its about double the cost of US Composites, which has a very good reputation here. That could be a $1000 difference on a project this size. ------------- |
Posted By: WOFTAM
Date Posted: January-29-2011 at 12:43pm
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Stringer Sauce--I Love that one! In my life, I never wanted a trailer queen, but that is how this one is turning out.
As for the #3 (Hilbilly)Deel-luxe. I am new at this trailer thing. I assumed that there was a #1 and a #2 since there was a #3. If the only difference is length, I can live with it. Balance is good and the rock sliders on the aft bottom give me piece of mind. My concern, which appears to be unfounded, was that the width of the trailer bunks was too great and may support the boat in a fashion that would, over time distort or weaken the hull. West is pricey, I agree. I may try the USC for laminating the floor in order to save money, but I can get the West locally. Thanks for the insight and patience. Had it no tbeen for this site, I would have never discovered the steel floorpans and been driving this soggy girl around for years to come. ------------- Just because you can does not mean you should. |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: January-29-2011 at 2:04pm
Not sure if there ever was a #1, but the #2 was the smaller CC trailer that came under Mustangs, Skiers and Ski Tiques. Your 2001 #3 is a bit too large for your 2nd gen SN, but it obviously works. Its probably too wide in addition to being too long, which will likely make it a bit harder to load properly. If I were you, Id be looking to swap it out in the long run- but no rush. ------------- |
Posted By: Air206
Date Posted: January-29-2011 at 3:11pm
As always, excellent correction Tim. We don't know what the tongue weight is, was or will be ..... esp. since the hull is without engine. I wouldn't recommend to overweight/underweight a trailer tongue for safety and convenience reasons. That was not my suggestion. I did comment that tongue weight was a factor and based on the pictures and his current situation.. a minimal one. My point was the same as yours... it probably will make due for now but it would be good to swap out down the road - unless you're loaded with cash..... then get it right from the start. Hope that clarifies for WOFTAM...... ------------- https://tinyurl.com/y6t5e3bu" rel="nofollow - 04 Air206 http://tinyurl.com/9urzgls" rel="nofollow - 91 Barefoot 78 SkiTiq |
Posted By: WOFTAM
Date Posted: February-03-2011 at 11:30pm
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We had about a foot of snow here in the last 24 hours. I got up early today and started what I hope is the last of the grinding. Brisk breeze brought the windchills well below zero. Thank goodness for the tyvek suit. I spent about 2 1/2 hours outside grinding the old glass as to not anger the barn owner and lose my heated space needed for epoxy curing.
PIC  ------------- Just because you can does not mean you should. |
Posted By: WOFTAM
Date Posted: February-09-2011 at 10:36pm
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I have re-ground where the old stringers were and gotten rid of a lot of extra glass. This left me with a rather large gap (3/4") in some places between the bevel on the stringer and the hull floor. I would like to know your thoughts on the following:
1) Install as is. Do so with temporary tabbing (to keep primaries level and vertical) Mix up a batch of epoxy with adhesive filler and inject with a caulk gun, create a fillet and begin tabbing. 2) rip the bottom part of the stringer off using a table saw, get more fir, spend more time fitting, then join to the good part of the stringer then install and tab. 3) I read something about building up areas (filling gaps )with CSM and that this technique has been used by folks on this site with good results. 4) Square up and start tabbing as-is. I don't like the idea of the voids, but the majority of the strength will come from the tabbing, not the bottom of the stringer exerting force on the bottom of the hull, right? Thanks Y'all, Pics of situation to follow. ------------- Just because you can does not mean you should. |
Posted By: Keeganino
Date Posted: February-09-2011 at 10:59pm
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I had a few gaps that were substantial and just rolled with it. I bedded my stringers in a nice bed of thickened epoxy and then did a nice fat fillet. After all of that you are rock solid. You could lay some cloth or mat in the areas with large gaps but I did not. Epoxy is a pretty forgiving media to work with and is super strong. You will be fine. I was freaking out too at this phase but my favorite new saying became "its within tolerance"!
I had at least a 3/4" gap at the end of the stringer here and you would never know after it is bedded and filleted. 
Fillets 
------------- "working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4897" rel="nofollow - 1973 Skier |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: February-09-2011 at 11:16pm
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Keegan, that is beautiful work. Did you wrap the stringers with cloth as well? ------------- |
Posted By: Keeganino
Date Posted: February-09-2011 at 11:31pm
Thank you. The next steps were to 2 layers each of 2", 4", and 8" 8.9 oz e-cloth tape. Then 12" biaxial up both sides and 1 over the top. 2 cap layers of biax from pylon to tranny mounts. 
------------- "working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4897" rel="nofollow - 1973 Skier |
Posted By: WOFTAM
Date Posted: February-09-2011 at 11:44pm
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Thanks for the quick response.
Here are the pics: 
 ------------- Just because you can does not mean you should. |
Posted By: lewy2001
Date Posted: February-10-2011 at 7:19am
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Mike it looks as though the engine cradle is hard up against those stringers. You may want to put a bit of packing between them to allow for the layers of glass and cloth that will build the thickness of the stringer ------------- If you're going through hell, keep going http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2999" rel="nofollow - 89 Ski <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5685" ta |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: February-10-2011 at 8:37am
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Mike,
I suggest filling the gaps with the thickened epoxy. Less work than adding more wood and the result will be fine. The empty caulk tubes you fill work great. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: WOFTAM
Date Posted: February-10-2011 at 12:55pm
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What did you use to attach the secondaries togetherk? Straight epoxy or did you use some mechanical fasteners as well? ------------- Just because you can does not mean you should. |
Posted By: Keeganino
Date Posted: February-10-2011 at 5:57pm
I just used epoxy and a million clamps. No screws anywhere in my stringer system layup. After I bedded the stringers I may have forced thickened epoxy into the large voids with a bondo spreader before I laid the fillets. Either that or I just did it as I filleted. You have to move fast when you do the fillets. Filled epoxy kicks quick when you make a large batch. I used gallon freezer bags to lay a bead down for the fillet like a frosting bag, then shaped the fillet with the round top edge of a bondo spreader.
 ------------- "working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4897" rel="nofollow - 1973 Skier |
Posted By: WOFTAM
Date Posted: February-16-2011 at 11:47pm
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I decided to jump this afternoon. After leveling the boat, measuring, re-leveling and re measuring, I decided I had it right and started bedding the stringers. I had 2 tubes of West Six-10 thickened epoxy, more than enough to bed one main, right? Wrong.
I have one stringer bedded at about 75% with the two tubes completely gone...It seems that although the tubes are regular size, their contents are empty when the plunger reaches half- way up the tube. See the black line on the side of the tubes? That tells you when you are out of sauce. I wish I had seen that before I started. 
Soooo, I have $40 worth of epoxy in one of the mains. As much as I hate to do so, I am going to buy 4 more and finish the mains and then switch to another mix for the secondaries. Here is how she sits now. 
EDIT: I got on the phone with West Systems tech support and explained my experience with the six-10. Bruce, the tech adviser said that I could use their 404 additive to their 105 resin and 205 hardener and it would be just fine and more cost effective. Needless to say, I mixed up a batch and filled some empty caulk tubes and the stringers are bedded as I am writing this. I hope to fillet this weekend. ------------- Just because you can does not mean you should. |
Posted By: WOFTAM
Date Posted: March-13-2011 at 12:36pm
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Progress ground to a halt as I realized I am about 10 yards shy on my tape estimate. I am doing 2 layers of 8.9oz 2", 4" and 8". Man, that was disheartening. I even had an entire day for myself...Mains are tabbed in and one stringer is in.
A question: How is the secondary tabbed in the area where it is doubled up? When I removed the secondaries, it not appear that there was any tabbing in there. ------------- Just because you can does not mean you should. |
Posted By: connorssons
Date Posted: March-15-2011 at 12:45am
| Hay Woftam! hang in there, im feeling your pain. Jeff |
Posted By: Keeganino
Date Posted: March-15-2011 at 1:08am
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Those west system tubes are way too expensive. You should just get some cabosil and thicken your own epoxy. The secondaries have to be bedded too... secondaries should basically get the same layup as the mains. I like the 50 cent discount on the tubes. ------------- "working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4897" rel="nofollow - 1973 Skier |
Posted By: WOFTAM
Date Posted: March-26-2011 at 11:48am
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I have all of the stringers bedded, filleted and taped.
While I am here, I would like to reinforce the rear lifting point so that I may use it to pull a tube and still have passengers in the rear seat. I assume the strength will need to be in the area in the underside of the deck. Any suggestions on dimensions or material? ------------- Just because you can does not mean you should. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: March-26-2011 at 12:39pm
A good joke this morning just made my day!  ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: WOFTAM
Date Posted: March-26-2011 at 3:09pm
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That was a real question but I am happy you found it humorous.
Any suggestions? ------------- Just because you can does not mean you should. |
Posted By: Swatkinz
Date Posted: March-26-2011 at 4:40pm
Mike, You must not have known that most on here frown on any discussion about a CC towing an inflatable. ------------- Steve 2011 Sport/Air 200 Excalibur 343 2017 Boatmate Tandem Axle Trailer Former CC owner (77, 80, 95, 88, all SNs) Former Malibu owner (07, 09) |
Posted By: Keeganino
Date Posted: March-26-2011 at 8:53pm
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I have towed off of my rear lifting ring with no problems since the rebuild. I think I posted a picture of my new reinforcement on page 2 of this thread. 2 Layers of 3/4" ply laminated together and the original hardware. There is also ply laminated to the underside of your transom above the gas tank. Mine was rotten so I replaced that too. PITA! Some of the 60's boats came without pylons so you had to tow off of it. ------------- "working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4897" rel="nofollow - 1973 Skier |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: March-26-2011 at 9:57pm
Keegan, I've got to disagree with this statement - sorry! The boats that didn't come with a pylon (optional on some models), were not meant to pull anything off the aft lifting ring. BTW, the center pylon pull point came about because the boats were able to turn better. A aft pull, prevented lots of boats from turning back then!! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: March-27-2011 at 12:47am
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Pete - According to Ralph in 'Parting the Waters', the pylon was invented (by CC) to prevent strong skiers from pulling the towboat off course.
Maybe that is what you were referring to, just had to look it up! ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: WOFTAM
Date Posted: April-14-2011 at 8:07pm
I just got the seats back from the upholstery shop. The only thing that was not in need to replacement were the backs of the rear and spotter seat. They will need to wait.
Now, I need to get back to work on the floor. All stringers are tabbed in. I could use some guidance: 1) I am putting biax over the tops. Do the primaries and secondaries need this treatment or just the primaries? 2) My boat has the aluminum engine bed. Do I need to put two layers of biax over that area alone or over the entire primary. 3) If I do need to put biax over the primaries and secondaries, do I do it with one piece covering the primary and secondary or do I cover each individually? 4) As for the aft crossmember between primaries, to I install that first, then glass over the tops of the stringers or do it the other way around? Thanks guys. ------------- Just because you can does not mean you should. |
Posted By: Kristof
Date Posted: April-15-2011 at 8:17am
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Those seats look really nice Mike. ------------- - Gun control means: using BOTH hands! - Money doesn't make one happy, but when it rains cats and dogs, it's still better to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle... |
Posted By: vondy
Date Posted: April-15-2011 at 11:12am
Those do look nice. You dog looks like it want's to hike it's leg on them  . That would be the first thing mine would do.------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4645&sort=&pagenum=1 - 69 Mustang HM |
Posted By: Wacko
Date Posted: April-16-2011 at 3:52am
| Seats look Great!!! |
Posted By: WOFTAM
Date Posted: April-19-2011 at 1:23am
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Thanks guys. I was very happy with the work. I put the spark back under me to get this project going at a brisker pace.
I have bedded all of the stringers, played around with foam between the secondaries and massaged the biax over the tops of the stringers. I cut strips and epoxied them to the tops of the primaries. I would love to see any pics of how the biax was applied over the tops of the primaries that are curved (under where the motor mounts are located). I thought of scoring the sides of the curve to allow the biax to bend on those compound angles. In addition to looking ugly, I was afraid that it would compromise the strength of the biax. I am looking for some guidance here. Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bue--ller? Pics 
 ------------- Just because you can does not mean you should. |
Posted By: cjnovus
Date Posted: April-19-2011 at 11:12am
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Do you know if the PO did it or a "pro"? ------------- http://www.buylovejewelry.com/ - Cartier jewelry http://www.buylovejewelry.com/C-50-b0 - Cartier Love http://www.buylovejewelry.com/C-47-b0 - Cartier Love Bracelet |
Posted By: 79TiqueRebuild
Date Posted: April-20-2011 at 2:26am
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Looking real good Mike.
I remember some of the guys were soaking the biax or applying epoxy on a table covered with drop cloth or wax paper and letting soak till almost translucent then placing on the stringers. I would try to dry fit it and then wet it down. It sure likes the epoxy. Monty I found this pages 9&10 talk about biax coverages too bad pictures aren't available still http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=15123&PN=10&title=okie-boarders-floor-and-stringer-replacement - Oakie Boarders stringer repair |
Posted By: WOFTAM
Date Posted: July-23-2011 at 1:15pm
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I have the stringers all glassed in and I have changed my mind to include both plywood and foam on this rebuild.
I have used two part pour in foam. The top of the foam is no longer closed cell due to cutting off the areas of over- expansion. I have been contemplating sealing the top of the foam with some light fiberglass cloth soaked with epoxy before I install the plywood floor. Should I do it or is it overkill? ------------- Just because you can does not mean you should. |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: July-23-2011 at 1:22pm
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I 'wet-in' the top of the foam, but that was with a glass floor. I would glass that in and let it cure or not depending on your plan with the ply.
Mom used to say "If you have to ask..."  ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: WOFTAM
Date Posted: October-08-2011 at 12:30pm
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Foam was sealed, and faired then a couple of coats of cloth before bonding the plywood to the stringer tops and hull sides.
One layer of biax has been applied to the plywood for a little impact resistance. I cant believe that I am saying this, but I am starting to wish I bought the US Composites Epoxy. No offense to my Michigan brothers Meade and Ian Gougeon, but that West System is expensive! ------------- Just because you can does not mean you should. |