foam
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Boat Maintenance
Forum Discription: Discuss maintenance of your Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=20096
Printed Date: September-26-2024 at 8:14pm
Topic: foam
Posted By: lakedog55
Subject: foam
Date Posted: December-02-2010 at 1:58pm
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Is the foam structural? I have removed the floor and foam, after reading several post, and a couple of soft spots, The wood appears to be good for the most part. All of the lags for the motor mounts tighten and hold real well, I am going to make a couple of test holes to see if they are still good, With the problems the foam creates it seems better to back without it, but I am no boat engineer. Any suggestions?
Thanks Mike ------------- Lakedog55 |
Replies:
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: December-02-2010 at 2:04pm
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What boat do you have? The foam is certainly structural in the newer boats (2001 hull and forward) and the argument could be made either way on the older stuff. Some of the smaller boats would probably be fine without it, but the larger ones (our BFN for example) would oilcan pretty badly without the foam.
I have 2 suggestions: 1) If foam is removed, something should be put back in place to strengthen the structure in its absence. On our BFN, we put in ribs every foot or so. 2) If youve gone through the trouble of removing the floor and foam, replace the stringers while youre in there. Its clear youve got some degree of rot going on and its much easier to address it now while its apart. ------------- |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: December-02-2010 at 3:02pm
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The boat is a 1986 SN. I need to pull the motor is what you are saying and do it once and forget about it. oh so much work and so little time. ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: December-02-2010 at 3:55pm
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When I do the stringers can I use yellow pine? It is very available>
Thanks Mike ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: Keeganino
Date Posted: December-02-2010 at 6:24pm
Douglas Fir is the wood to use. ------------- "working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4897" rel="nofollow - 1973 Skier |
lakedog55 wrote:Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: December-02-2010 at 7:40pm
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Like Tim said if you go the route without foam then you need to put in addional support for the floor. It also ties the sides of the hull to the bottom and mains.
This is what I did in my '85 
I left access for water to escape and allow air to flow to help dry things out. 
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Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: December-02-2010 at 8:04pm
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That is way cool, do you need a winter break in Florida? Does anyone have a drawing of what the stringers are look like. On the sides you added what looks like a cat for the floor to res on, what did you use to set the stringers and other wood. The whole fiberglass lay up thing is a mystery to me. Is there anywhere to go for more advice. I will definetly be going without foam, What thickness plywood did you use? Why the fir?. ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: December-02-2010 at 8:25pm
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One more question How far do the main stringers extend toward the bow, I cut my floor out exactly where you did. And have managed to get the batterey box out but not the vents any tips I will try and post a picture
Thanks Mike ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: December-02-2010 at 8:40pm
trying the picture again  ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: Keeganino
Date Posted: December-02-2010 at 10:25pm
I went through the same thing last year and asked all of the beginner questions. I started the thread http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=16254&title=73-skier-restoration - 73 Skier Restoration and set out to document my entire rebuild. There are over 200 pics and the CCF community poured their heart into 25 pages of suggestions and ideas. The below threads are what got me started.
------------- "working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4897" rel="nofollow - 1973 Skier |
Posted By: Keeganino
Date Posted: December-02-2010 at 10:30pm
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The stringers end at the airbox. To draw the new ones your best bet is to remove them in a way that you can use them as a template. All that is covered in the threads above. The more you read the clearer the process will become. ------------- "working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4897" rel="nofollow - 1973 Skier |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: December-03-2010 at 8:16am
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Keegan,
Thanks for doing all that searching! I agree that no book is needed. It's all here at CCfan!  ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: malibud
Date Posted: December-03-2010 at 1:39pm
| I am in the same boat my stringers are good 85 ' 2001 but would like to get the wet foam out it seems like a lot of work and expense to replace stringers when they are still good any way around this? hat about spraying in closed cell like Icyene ? |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: December-03-2010 at 1:51pm
The misconception is that theyre still good... just because they look ok doesnt mean theyre dry and rot free. Its already a lot of work and expense to go in and dig the foam out, then replace the floor and carpet. If you only do that without adding floor/hull support to replace the strength of the foam, then you'll actually be making the boat worse, not better. Doing the job twice (once half assed, then again to do it right) is not recommended if youre concerned about time and money. Do it once and do it right- or dont bother at all. ------------- |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: December-03-2010 at 4:37pm
I agree with everything Tim has said. Do a stringer job now before it comes back to haunt you. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Keeganino
Date Posted: December-03-2010 at 6:34pm
Tim actually gets credit for this list. He posted it on page 1 of my thread just as I was getting started. I have pasted it into a few beginner threads now as the same old questions I had to ask keep coming up. It takes a lot of reading and planning to take on a rebuild if you do not have any experience. I know from experience.  ------------- "working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4897" rel="nofollow - 1973 Skier |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: December-03-2010 at 6:43pm
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Okay I am going to make preps to pull the motor, do I need to make any measurements before beginning . I am going to pull one stringer at a time and ask a bunch of questions in between, I will use or try and use the same materials you guys are using, Will a microlamb beam or lvl work in place of the fir?
Thanks Mike ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: Keeganino
Date Posted: December-03-2010 at 6:58pm
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I took pages of measurements before I started the demo work, but did not use them much to be honest. It is easy to see where the stringers go down because there will be a groove that they fit into so the placement is not really an issue. There will be a definite line that shows the floor height all the way around the hull so here again you have a good visual indicator.
My boat did not have an engine cradle so the most critical measurement for me was the engine placement. From transom to tranny mounts and from log to tranny coupler were about the only measurements I used. I mocked up the floor in cardboard before cutting the plywood. ------------- "working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4897" rel="nofollow - 1973 Skier |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: December-03-2010 at 8:18pm
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Mike,
After some have had problems finding the Doug Fir, I suggested using LVL. We actually have one member who is using it but I haven't seen him post for awhile. I'll see if I can find it (or you can try too) by doing a search. He posted some pictures too. A couple of cautions though. Order it without the weather coating or if that is a problem, make sure you do some aggressive sanding on the faces with the belt sander. Also, do to it being thicker, make sur you offset the extra to the outside so the distance between the mains is the same. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: December-03-2010 at 8:27pm
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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9503&KW=lvl&PID=220147&title=85-2001-floor-project-w-plans-span-classhighlightlvl-span-stringer-is-in#220147 - Here's the LVL thread ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: December-04-2010 at 5:51pm
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Thanks for all of your guys help, The reading has been most interesting. We need a video. Anyway my question is what height of timber do you guys use? The talles measurement I have came up with is around 6 1/2, But that is with Glass on it and in the boat. I am wanting to order my wood so I have it. I also want to get a qoute on the lvl on monday.
Thanks Mike ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: Keeganino
Date Posted: December-04-2010 at 10:15pm
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The skier took 2x8s for the mains and 1x6 for the secondaries. The SN is bigger so I would assume that the stringers would be at least this tall. ------------- "working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4897" rel="nofollow - 1973 Skier |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: December-07-2010 at 7:32pm
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Has anyone glued up there own lvl using 3/4 inch ply? I got a qoute for the fir for my secondaries and mains and a little extra for around 340.00 Does that sound okay? ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: December-07-2010 at 7:34pm
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When I pull this stringer deal off can I be upgraded to at least a groupie?
Mike ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: Keeganino
Date Posted: December-07-2010 at 7:53pm
Plywood will have some grain running in the weakest possible direction. For that reason it is not considered a good material for making stringers. For $340 I would just go with the DF so you don't have to reinvent the wheel and have to wonder how well it is going to work. ------------- "working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4897" rel="nofollow - 1973 Skier |
Posted By: Keeganino
Date Posted: December-07-2010 at 7:54pm
Just a few more posts and your status will upgrade  ------------- "working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4897" rel="nofollow - 1973 Skier |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: December-09-2010 at 11:57pm
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Okay guys The material is ordered no turning back now
order consisted of 2@2x8x14 1@2x8x8 offset for motor cradle 1@2x6x10 instead of installing a gap in the rear of the secondary 6@1x6x12 for secondary and other 1 2x4x8 for something ( will use this for banging my head on repeatedly) If anyone is in Florida I found a a local company out of Leesburg, wood is supposed to be vertical clear Douglass fir purchase was made for $340.00 Will post pictures when wood arrives. Thanks Mike ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: December-10-2010 at 9:58am
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measure twice ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: December-10-2010 at 3:42pm
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Eric,
I hope I measured correctly. If not I will have some wood for sale at a very reasonable price. Mike ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: December-11-2010 at 10:41am
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I gotta set of bunkbeds for my children, I had to cut 3 pieces of plywood to hold up the mattresses, measured, cut them and went to fit them.....mf, 2 were an inch to long and the other was an inch to short...one of lifes mysteries ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: December-11-2010 at 10:53am
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"I've cut it 3 times and it still isn't long enough!" ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: December-11-2010 at 9:00pm
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Hi those are some very inspiring words. I feel pretty comfortable with the wood. It is the layup and which material to use, The vinyl ester seems pretty straight forward and has a high heat tolerance where the epoxies do not. I am not sure which material to use yet, Pretty sure on the CPES, and the fasco epoxy, That leads to another question will the vinyl ester resin bond with the CPES or the fasco? The difference in price is about 5 dollars a gallon, The epoxy comes with 7.5 where the polyester comes with five gallons. It says if I go with the slow hardener (2 to 1). I will not have to worry about blushing any comments? ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: December-11-2010 at 9:12pm
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Why I am here I am going to pull the prop. Do I need to get the key out first and if so how do I go about it? ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: December-11-2010 at 9:31pm
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Mike,
My suggestion is to stick with the epoxy. It's been proven (as in the links provided) to be the best resin for repair. Heat is not a factor here but the epoxy's strength is better. Yes, the vinyl wiil stick to epoxy. I consider it more of a conversion coating if you're not doing a complete hull with it. Where are you shopping for resin? Getting the prop off has nothing to do with the key. It will come off with the prop when you use a puller. A prop puller is a must. It's (should be) seated and locked onto the shaft with the tapered bore/shaft. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: December-14-2010 at 9:16pm
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Mr. P
Thanks for the info, I think I will stick with the epoxy, That is good advice on the prop, I was going to attemt to get the key out, Was not really sure which way to punch it out it looked as if it should go towards the strut. I did manage to get the drive shaft and trannny apart, I could have made a couple of runs without any bolts, That baby was together. Post a picture of florida winterization, tarp + lightbulb  ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: Keeganino
Date Posted: December-14-2010 at 9:36pm
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Glad you went ahead and got the DF. Epoxy is the no brainer decision for your resin too. When you weigh all the different qualities it is the best. I thought it was easy to use too.
I was talking to my buddy in Tallahassee this morning and he said it was cold there. We hit 15 this morning in NC! ------------- "working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4897" rel="nofollow - 1973 Skier |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: December-14-2010 at 9:43pm
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Yeah we are in Ocala a litle south of tally and it is going to be around 24 for a low with high around 55, I was talking to a guy in Western NC and he said they got about 8 inches of snow and was about 9 It seems like the weather cycle is getting more and more dramtic.
Thanks Mike ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: Keeganino
Date Posted: December-14-2010 at 10:54pm
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Yeah I was up there backpacking between Newfound Gap and Smokemont Thursday through Sunday. Woke up Sunday with all that snow on top of the tent and hiked 8 miles out in a winter wonderland. The road was closed so my Dad's truck is still parked at the trail head. oops! La nina is a beatch! ------------- "working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4897" rel="nofollow - 1973 Skier |
Posted By: wingwrench
Date Posted: December-15-2010 at 12:54am
Mike, Can you post the name of the lumber yard you are getting the fir from. Leesburg is not that far from me. Thanks, Jack |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: December-15-2010 at 12:28pm
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Jack,
The company name is Romac, My salesman name is Roger Sansdorf out of Ocala, But they could order the material in at leesburg, almost everything comes in there anyway. They have been one of my primary suppliers for around 15 years, so it is possible my pricing may be a little different. Before you order lets take a good look at what the material they ship me looks like, over the years I have been let down a couple of times and usually it is on stuff I am buying for myself,Why is that? Rogers number is 352-622-7099. Special K, That is along walk, Did your Dad get his truck back? My family has a cabin in Balsam. We spent 2 weeks there this summer, very nice It was the first time in 20 years I did not go up there to work on the house. I did feel a little guilty it needs paint. What lake do you guys boat on? This summer we went over to lake Fontana and another lake Near Robinsiville but the name escapes me now. The kids had a blast. ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: December-15-2010 at 12:45pm
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Jack,
Romac has not made the min for order to come in yet, but the ir supplier is out of Tampa and they have the wood looks like I may be going to Tampa. They said it was no problem to do the pickup there. For me thats great more wood to choose from, If their yard will let me. One thing I forgot was a 1x8 for the floor to sit on next to the motor cradle a 1x6 may make it but I am not sure. Mike ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: wingwrench
Date Posted: December-15-2010 at 3:29pm
| Thanks Mike, Tampa is even closer for me. Do you know the name of the supplier? |
Posted By: Keeganino
Date Posted: December-15-2010 at 5:21pm
Pops is hoping to o back up there this weekend and grab the truck. Fontana is a special place. When my buddy used to own my boat we camped for a week there. Not exactly roughing it since we could go to the marina for cold beer.  The water was so clear we spent a lot of time snorkeling watching the trout at the mouths of the streams. There were also huge schools of fry that made you feel like you were on a reef. My main hole is Belews creek but there are about 5 lakes I can be on in an hour.------------- "working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4897" rel="nofollow - 1973 Skier |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: December-15-2010 at 6:22pm
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Yes the water was very clear, not sure what kind of fish a fry is though?
Jack, I do not know the suppliers name in Tampa but should by tomorrow Thanks Mike ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: December-15-2010 at 6:25pm
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Jack,
even better than tomorrow is today, Logan Lumber Company. ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: wingwrench
Date Posted: December-15-2010 at 7:19pm
| Thanks, Mike |
Posted By: Keeganino
Date Posted: December-15-2010 at 8:48pm
Fry are baby fish ------------- "working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4897" rel="nofollow - 1973 Skier |
Posted By: yuanyelss
Date Posted: January-07-2011 at 7:06am
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There will be a definite line that shows the floor height all the way around the hull so here again you have a good visual indicator. ------------- http://www.cartier4us.com/Cartier-Pen-5.html - cartier pen refill , http://www.cartier4us.com/Cartier-Rings-7.html - cartier engagement rings |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: February-16-2011 at 9:58pm
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Hi guys,
Everything is finally out except for the pylon, It will not budge  Any suggestions? Going to start grinding this weekend. And hopfully get some stands made and the boat level. ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: March-21-2011 at 11:39pm
Hi, What a Pita? I really do not like the sanding and grinding, not to mention it takes about a milion of those flappers to get anywhere? But I really think working on the boat is more of the hobby than actually boating. I really have had some funn cant wait to actually put some water under it. but anyway here is the stringers glued in! once again not a great picture. I was going to run one layer of roving and one of mat for the secondarys, and roving,mat,roving, biax for the mains any problems 635 resin ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: March-22-2011 at 11:28am
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I have never used roving, but my understanding is that it is very thick- so that would make it absorb a lot of resin and be pretty tough to work with (going around corners, etc). I believe US Composites describes it as a "good way to build thickness quickly if cost is a factor", or something to that effect.
I think you would be much better off with a few more layers of cloth rather than using roving. It will be easier to work with and should end up stronger. The cloth tapes are great- only having to cut them to length (rather than ripping them into strips) speeds things up ALOT. I used 6 layers of cloth followed by biax on the BFN, and plan to use the same schedule on my upcoming projects, as it seemed to work well. ------------- |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: March-23-2011 at 3:50pm
I never considered that the original stringers where the engine cradle sits would be not be that great, But When I cleaned the cradle, hidden in the caulk were some washers. So I placed the cradle in the boat and whata ya know it does not touch the stringers in that area. But I guess that is what the make mat for. So if you are doing a stringer job and measuring to the top of stringers you might want to consider how well the top fit first. 
Mike ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: WakeSlayer
Date Posted: March-23-2011 at 4:11pm
Really? It is a labor of love, dude. Looks good so far. I would, however, go back and fillet the joints a bit wider. Make up some peanut butter and get a spoonula at your local Target or Walmart. It will save you some headaches laying the tape. ------------- Mike N 1968 Mustang |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: March-24-2011 at 12:15am
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^^^Mike's right about those headaches! ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: April-20-2011 at 1:19pm
almost done with the stringer repair ------------- Lakedog55 |