Starflite Rebuild
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Boat Maintenance
Forum Discription: Discuss maintenance of your Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=20585
Printed Date: June-23-2024 at 3:50pm
Topic: Starflite Rebuild
Posted By: uk1979
Subject: Starflite Rebuild
Date Posted: February-07-2011 at 8:27pm
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Well now we have had the engine running its time to strip her down ready to rebuild the hull.
Engine out 
Clean out to see whats good and the bad. 
A 1957 oops 
every inch was used 
Off the trailer 
flipping over 
Engine on a stand as it was in the boat  ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Replies:
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: February-07-2011 at 8:30pm
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Not to undermine the rest of the restorers and rebuilderso on this site but for many reasons this thread should be linked to the definition of "ambition".
Roger, was that you I bumped into at the grocery store in Green Lake last year? ------------- |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: February-07-2011 at 8:46pm
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Holy smokes, Roger! That's got to be a site record for a boat needing the most work.
------------- |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: February-07-2011 at 8:57pm
I feel better already!!  ------------- You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: February-07-2011 at 10:07pm
Just keep going Roger!! 
You know a true CC restoration would include the use of the good old "finishing" hatchet!! Better sharpen it up.  ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Kristof
Date Posted: February-08-2011 at 4:56am
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Roger,
You managed to redifine the word "project boat" all together... What an adventure this is gonna be! Keep posting pics of every step of the way, cause this is one thread that is gonna be in my category of "threads-with-my-morning-coffee". ------------- - Gun control means: using BOTH hands! - Money doesn't make one happy, but when it rains cats and dogs, it's still better to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle... |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: February-08-2011 at 3:37pm
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WOW that is a nice project..making a boat out of some nice firewood...
keep the pictures comming Roger.. ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: 75 Tique
Date Posted: February-08-2011 at 4:56pm
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Wow Roger! Ambitious. Good luck with it. Question to Pete or Alan or whoever. How little of a boat can remain for it to be considered a restoration? I was telling my sister about Alan's project and she asked the question. Best I can tell from Alan's project most of the frame and the hardware will be the only original pieces. If its not a restoration, is there another term or are they all restorations, as long as some of the original boat is there. When does it become, I built a new boat but used some salvaged pieces from another one? ------------- _____________ “So, how was your weekend?” “Well, let me see…sun burn, stiff neck, screwed up back, assorted aches and pains….yup, my weekend was great, thanks for asking.” |
Posted By: Keeganino
Date Posted: February-08-2011 at 5:00pm
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Larry I have wondered the same thing. Seems like sometimes the original is just there for a template.
Cool project Roger. Looking forward to seeing your progress. Did you have her shipped over? Whats the story on how you got it? ------------- "working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4897" rel="nofollow - 1973 Skier |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: February-08-2011 at 5:31pm
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Larry/Keegan,
I think Rogers boat is a true pattern boat where the Hurricane other than a few frame members is a pretty basic re-skin. New bottom and topsides are a pretty common restoration and of course you will always uncover some rotted areas that need repair in the process. I think you could classify the Hurricane as a restoration and the Starflite as a reproduction as there will be very little if any framework reused. Pete could have more insight as to what is the accepted practice. ------------- You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: February-09-2011 at 8:42am
Larry, The current ACBS rules state you must have some of the original wood to call the boat restored and to be considered the same hull. Hardware and the engine are judged by the point system so if original there wouldn't be a deduction. A "reproduction" would be completely new wood and ether reproduced hardware or off another boat. Looking at Rogers project, there's plenty of wood that can be reused such as stringers, some frames and interior trim so it would be judged as a original. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
75 Tique wrote:Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: February-09-2011 at 10:26am
Thanks Pete, Roger did I hear through the grapevine you have plans for 2 boats out of this venture, Reproduce a brand new one and restore the original? ------------- You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: February-09-2011 at 10:31am
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Pete, couple years ago we saw that triple cockpit Chris being built at one of the ACBS meetings. The only original wood on that was the stringers, would that still be considered a restored boat? He did use the original drvetrain, Don't remember where the hardware came from.
------------- You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: February-09-2011 at 10:31am
I seem to have heard the same! Roger needs someplace to put that Y block! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: February-09-2011 at 11:35am
Kevin, Thanks for the nod, yes she is bad but should make it easy for others to show there projects on here, as I'm sure most will be in better condition.
I don't think we met at GL but could be wrong as there were so much going on, but I did see the Caddy at the Golf Club. ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: February-09-2011 at 11:38am
Bruce, I'm sure it will be a journey for all of us, lots of up and downs, thanks Roger. ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: February-09-2011 at 11:43am
Alan I would be happy to swap boats you know you won't to do it all again. ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: February-09-2011 at 11:53am
Pete, My dad who is 83 can't wait to start on it, as an old joiner himself he has brought in his dads adzes. 
He tells me your only good with one if you can hit the edge of a sixpence under your foot, so look out for my foot in a big bandage  ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: February-09-2011 at 11:56am
Kristof, Best get a real big jar of coffee, its going to take some time ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: February-09-2011 at 12:04pm
Sebastion,Thats just what my two brothers said just need to keep it away from our firewood pile ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: February-09-2011 at 12:17pm
Larry, Thanks for the good luck I'm going to need it. and a good question one that we can debate on and on just like foam or no foam. ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: February-09-2011 at 12:32pm
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Roger, I think it's great to see a boat like that restored! No doubt, it will be way better than new. Have you ever received any emails from me? ------------- |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: February-09-2011 at 12:38pm
Keegan here are the other parts of the story and yes found it on the internet and shipped it over all from my desk here in the UK I have a lot of good people to thank to get to this stage. 
http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=20390&title=starting-an-old-6-pot-graymarine - Engine Running http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=19902&title=boat-dr-312-y-block-build - Engine built by Billy (Boat Dr) http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=20073&title=boat-on-its-last-leg-to-the-uk - Shipping ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: February-09-2011 at 12:49pm
Alain,Pete yes I will try to make a copy of the rebuild/restored boat with the hope I can repatriate one to use at reunions. ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: February-09-2011 at 12:52pm
Hi Bruce, No Emails try Roger.England@Englandbro.co.uk Cheers Roger. ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: February-09-2011 at 2:26pm
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Roger, as I near the finish of the Collegian,and you , just starting on the Star Flite,sends me back in time. So pleased that I got to play a major role in the resto of another of these wooden classics.
Keep the pics coming, I wish I could post more of my little project.........Boat dr ------------- boat dr /diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart /diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: February-09-2011 at 6:35pm
Billy, I don't think we are finished yet, Please start a thread of your Collegian or post a picture as a tease, as you have a real show stopper of a boat, not like my old tub.
------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: February-10-2011 at 6:58pm
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The Epoxy supplier I have been using has a Epoxy for wood bonding/glassing onto which he tells me can be diluted to make CPES, just need to buy this extra component to add when I need CPES has any one used this, he said he sell it to wood boat builders.
------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: February-10-2011 at 7:07pm
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Roger, you may want to give this a read:
http://www.epoxyproducts.com/penetrating4u.html - Home Brew CPES As a temporary fix on my sister's mushy stringer in her Mustang, we poured in a good amount of resin thinned with xylene. Once it cured, we followed up with thickened resin. That was enough to hold the motor in for the last month of summer... and theyre actually going to push it one more year! Im going to use a similar concoction on the fir stringers going in my Skier. ------------- |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: February-10-2011 at 8:41pm
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Thanks Tim just what I needed ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: February-14-2011 at 2:39pm
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Moved the Starflite up on the first floor and into the old part of the building, I had a few challenges to do it but you can fit the hull through a 3ft 1/2in opening.
Shall leave the hull up on its side to make the templates of the frame and measure up its easy no climbing in and out. 
 ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: Morfoot
Date Posted: February-14-2011 at 4:16pm
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Thats insane Roger...Larry, Moe, and Curly weren't close by were they? ------------- "Morfoot; He can ski. He can wakeboard.He can cook chicken.He can create his own self-named beverage, & can also apparently fly. A man of many talents."72 Mustang "Kermit",88 SN Miss Scarlett, 99 SN "Sherman" |
Posted By: Keeganino
Date Posted: February-14-2011 at 4:23pm
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Holy jeepers! Toys for days! Reminds me of my grandfather who led a cow up to the second story of the music building in college. Luckily for the school there was some sort of hoist for getting pianos in and out so they just let it out the window.
I like your idea of measuring while on its side. Makes perfect sense and will save your back. ------------- "working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4897" rel="nofollow - 1973 Skier |
Posted By: Mark Mel
Date Posted: February-15-2011 at 1:16pm
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Reminds me of the story of the guy that built a boat in his basement...lol ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=972&sort=&pagenum=4&yrstart=1976&yrend=1980" rel="nofollow - 1978 Nautique FBook - www.facebook.com/charliedontsurfct |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: February-17-2011 at 7:38pm
I found this under the gas tank when I was cleaning the hull out a Canadian 25c its paying me back already if it was lost around its date 1969 may have been worth a gallon of gas. 
The other side has our Queens head so the boat was always heading for the UK.
 ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: Keeganino
Date Posted: February-17-2011 at 8:52pm
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That is pretty cool! I found a rare 1943 steel penny when restoring the Skier. There was a bunch of change under the gas tank and and when I was cleaning it up one of the pennies shined silver instead of copper so I looked into it. They were made during the war when copper was in high demand. ------------- "working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4897" rel="nofollow - 1973 Skier |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: February-18-2011 at 2:34am
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Mine usually costs me a pretty penny. ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: February-18-2011 at 9:50am
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Pete, does the UK fall under ACBS guidelines or is it basically an American thing? ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: February-18-2011 at 9:51am
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Roger, I have no comments yet, other than a BBC would push that wood tug along nicely lol ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: February-18-2011 at 10:11am
Eric, The ACBS is international although most of the members are here in the states. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: February-18-2011 at 11:12am
Eric don't tempt me,
Both are RH solid roller  ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: February-18-2011 at 11:15am
Don't worry Pete, all that is seen will be ACBS not so much the other ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: February-18-2011 at 11:54am
Roger, this is the first Ive heard of such an animal (reverse rotation roller cam for a BBC). Are you sure? ------------- |
Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: February-18-2011 at 12:16pm
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Tim, did you catch that ?
Both are RH solid roller Meaning they are not hydraulic....This is not only possible but probable...Twin engine go fast boats,ie Scarab, Cigarette... ------------- boat dr /diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart /diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: February-18-2011 at 12:28pm
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Tim this is what Crane sent me the one I have marked as HY should read TR, both are solid roller and they view rotation from the front of the engine, both are billet cams, down side have to run a chain and LH drive for Dis both are new old stock made in 90 and 91 they are a bit racy though.picked to 2 up for $150.00 so just took a punt on them
Would be good if you can confirm I have RH cams or a puppy. 
 ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: February-18-2011 at 12:56pm
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Ive never heard of or seen a reverse rotation roller BBC cam of any type, hydraulic or solid. Interesting!
That firing order (12756348) is indeed for a reverse rotation BBC. The lift looks to be out of this world... .708 at the valves! Thats a race cam if Ive ever seen one. For reference, my warmed up 351w has .490 at the valves, and my warmed up 454 will have ~.560 at the valves. This is a whole 'nother animal. I doubt you'd be able to make use of this cam in one of our boats, as its just too wild... but maybe it can be reground to something a bit tamer? Anyone know if theres any way to run hydraulic lifters with a solid cam? Maybe the ramp rate would be too agressive... what about if it were reground to something tamer? How do the metallurgy compare between the 2? I know the flat tappet vs. roller blanks wont allow you to mix and match, not sure how solid vs. hydraulic compare. ------------- |
Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: February-18-2011 at 2:15pm
Did you by chance learn something Tim ? The cam card pretty much tells the story, don't you agree? As far as using a flat tappett on a hydraulic or vice versa is a sure way to wipe out a cam. Different ramp profiles are used on all three types of cam/lifter systems. Bottom line is do not mix components and expect a "happy cam"..........Boat dr ------------- boat dr /diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart /diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: February-18-2011 at 2:32pm
Yup, learning something new every day. If you re-read above, you'll note my question was not whether you can mix and match flat tappet and roller cam components (I know thats a no-no due to the different hardnesses of the metals), but rather whether you can mix solid and hydraulic components. I realize ramp rates are usually different... but is there anything else precluding you from mixing the 2? IE, could Roger regrind that solid roller into something a little tamer and then use hydraulic roller lifters with it? My guess would be yes- but thats just a guess. Im assuming all roller blanks (be it solid or hydraulic) are of the harder billet steel variety... but again, thats just an assumption. ------------- |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: February-19-2011 at 1:29am
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NOS huh...Roger, you're a dog!
Except that I learned a few things today too. Tim, how many places did you call? I found out that Crane has exactly one RH roller core left and it's for a gen 6. I found out a few other things as well, but whether they end up on the trivia pile or the app file remains to be seen. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: February-19-2011 at 12:28pm
I called all the big outfits (Comp, Crane, Lunati) and a bunch of small ones that came highly recommended for BBC work- including at least one that specialized in high performance marine engines. None had any record that a reverse rotation roller ever existed, but we were talking Mark IV specifically. Pretty much all of them said they could grind it if I could source a blank though. I thought I struck gold when I found the flat tappet blanks... so I bought 2 extra! Sorry to hijack your thread Roger. ------------- |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: February-19-2011 at 12:40pm
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NOS means they're somewhere...unless the offshore guys got 'em all. I'll let you know what I find out. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: February-19-2011 at 4:34pm
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1.7 arms too ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: February-19-2011 at 6:17pm
Geg don't dismiss a gen 6 cam from what I found it will go in a gen 4 block you have to use gen 6 chain set and retainer, they say most gen 4 blocks have the screw holes for the retainer there just at the top and bottom not each side on a gen 6 worth checking out your sure to find a gen 6 RR roller cam.
http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/bbc-mk-vi-cam-mk-4-block-178188.html - Gen 6 cam into Gen 4 ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: February-19-2011 at 6:52pm
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Don't mind me Roger. If anything, I'm jealous of all the fun you're having. That and Tim and I and I'm sure a few others have stacked up a few minutes researching this. The frustrating thing is a company's inventory seems to fluctuate in direct relation to the guy who answers the phone.
Here's a teaser for Tim...I e-mailed a guy about a reverse rotation hydraulic roller cam and his concern wasn't the rev roller; it was about matching my 'other' cam. Sounds promising? We'll see. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: February-19-2011 at 7:06pm
Greg the question you need to ask the cam guys is who have you made RR roller cams for then call them,they won't be at the cam shops there sat on shelves in engine /race shops. thats were mine are from.
------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: February-22-2011 at 7:45pm
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Tim ,Greg this post on offshore may be of help.
http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/do-yourself-boating-budget/245292-stroking-reverse-rotation-454-a.html - RR 454 stroking IV with roller cam ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: February-22-2011 at 7:57pm
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Very interesting, Roger. I wonder who "Bob at RM" is. The only Bob I spoke to was at Marine Kinetics. I also spoke with Cam Motion and they couldnt point me in the right direction. He was really knowledgable but didnt know how to handle the cam snout. He made his own billet blanks but for whatever reason could not accomodate the gear/gear drive, and was not sure what my options would have been for the oil pump and dist gears if I were to convert to a chain timing set. It appears he has gained some knowledge since we last spoke... Very, very strange. ------------- |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: February-22-2011 at 8:08pm
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Tim,looks like these guys are making the cams just get them ro run 2 extra and bill the other guy
http://www.cammotion.com/ - RR cam ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: February-22-2011 at 8:36pm
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Looking back at my notes, I believe I spoke with Kip at Cam Motion just over a year ago. A little more searching on Offshore revealed that Bob at Marine Kinetics goes by "RMBuilder" so Im betting that's who is grinding the cam for that guy. I spoke with Bob as well.
Looks like someone didnt ask the right questions because I was obviously talking to the right people... Im pretty sure we hit a dead end on the roller stuff because of technical hurdles. Maybe my memory is bad and cost was the issue? If Cam Motion charges as much as LSM for the blanks, then that might have been the case. ------------- |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: February-23-2011 at 7:35am
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Tim , may be worth a call to Bob the way I read the post he has a batch of 6 made so cost may have come down with the set up charges spread over 6, at best there may be 5 up for sale.
------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: February-27-2011 at 10:23pm
Striped off the fiberglass on the bottom, some rot but not as bad as I thought it would be.
 ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: March-01-2011 at 4:01pm
Ran this test out last week looks like it works scanning the hull into cad, with this I hope to pick off my CNC parts and have a full 3D cad record of a Starflite.
 ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: C-Bass
Date Posted: March-01-2011 at 6:14pm
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I saw that scanner at the IMTS show in Chicago last fall. It's really neat. Let us see the final CAD image it generates! ------------- Craig 67 SN 73 SN http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6103" rel="nofollow - 99 Sport 85SN |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: March-01-2011 at 7:05pm
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wow..state of the art at its maximum!!!
------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: Donald80SN
Date Posted: March-02-2011 at 10:54pm
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Roger,
That is cheating.
Donald |
Posted By: Keeganino
Date Posted: March-02-2011 at 11:28pm
What a cool thing to have. Now you can put it into a video game!  ------------- "working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4897" rel="nofollow - 1973 Skier |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: March-03-2011 at 2:17am
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Guys just keep an eye on it and let me know if it starts to look like a Sub as he scans military parts too.
------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: March-03-2011 at 2:28am
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In its current condition it would not take much to make it go underwater, the trick will be to make it stay on top. ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: March-03-2011 at 2:31am
fair point------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: March-15-2011 at 7:03pm
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Been checking out the hull shape on mine and found that the strut has moved a one point along with the back engine blocks which have wood dowels to fill the first holes in the stringers, it sure looks like it was done in the factory I'm thinking mine could be one of the first made in 57 as the vinyl is date stamped 56 and if the numbers on the head are the cast date again late 56 with the infill made to raise the tank on the stringers seem to be a lot of adjustments or it's a late shift Friday boat.
Check out how much mine has shrunk in 2 weeks after I stripped off the fiberglass have gaps of 1.5 to 2.5mm and its still wet in parts, I can see daylight through the hull and some of the canvas. Also found that frames 2,3,4 are cut an inch wider so the stringers are sprung out, I like to think its so it keeps pulling in the hull at that point as the framing is real thin there, so my stringers are 21,1/2 inches apart from frame 2,3,4 then its 20,1/2 inches down the rest of the boat. 
 ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: March-15-2011 at 8:32pm
Dave, Remember that wood floats! No need for foam ether! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: March-16-2011 at 6:00am
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Pete, It is just hard to appreciate the beauty of a wood boat when the only thing above the waterline is the windshield and stern light. I have complete confidence that Roger will have that thing bobing on top of the water and shining in the sunlight better than the day it came from the factory. ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: April-19-2011 at 10:06pm
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Tried out making up my own Ceps, like Tim using normal epoxy with its diluant-thinners ( xylene methanol ) recommend max mix 1 epoxy to .5 thinner volume makes it like water.
Did a test on some construction mahogany veneer 2mm thick, coated up one side to see how well it soaked through, looks like it works well and works out around 1/3 the cost of ready tinned ceps here. 
 ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-19-2011 at 10:29pm
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Roger,
I think you need to reduce it farther. With one coat, the CPES wouldn't have sat on the surface and would have completely soaked in. Also with 2mm and the Mahogany being a open grain, I would expect to see more on the backside. I don't think it would take very much more solvent though. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: April-19-2011 at 10:39pm
Will do Pete and see what happens ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: wingwrench
Date Posted: April-19-2011 at 11:22pm
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Roger,
Have you tried West Systems? I get better penetration than your picture using West as long as I use the correct temp hardener, with no thinners. Jack |
Posted By: 79TiqueRebuild
Date Posted: April-20-2011 at 1:44am
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Roger another ineresting thread to follow
Glad to see you made it to the SJRR. Making 2 Starflites are you going to have a His and Hers??? Keep the pictures coming. Monty |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-20-2011 at 9:03am
Jack, Take a look at where Roger is located. He's using epoxies made over there and the CPES equal is very expensive.
Speaking of expensive, the same is true with West here. It's the highest priced of any. 
Also, no matter what epoxy and hardener combination you use, it will not take the place of CPES. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: wingwrench
Date Posted: April-20-2011 at 9:44am
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Pete,
I checked before I posted. http://www.wessex-resins.com/westsystem/uk-distributors.html Jack |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-20-2011 at 10:17am
Jack, You need to go back farther in time with Rogers posts. He's been through all the research on epoxies available in the UK. As mentioned, West over here is the highest cost of any and the same is true over there only worse!! Also note again that West does not make a product equal to CPES. Plus, unless the new owners of West have changed their recommendations, the Gougeon Brothers always stated that their epoxies should never be reduced. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: April-20-2011 at 5:32pm
Hi Jack I gave west ago today using 105&207 unthinned its 24C here today to see how it compared,no luck with it,west was the first epoxy I used and its very good but the cost is the killer here its made here in the UK under license but I save around $565.76 on a 43kg tub 
 ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: April-20-2011 at 6:18pm
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Have run a new test like Pete and the Tec call from Louisiana (Billy)said, much better soaking through needed to add allot more thinner to wash the epoxy in don't be shy with the thinner.
I have coated up 5 bits to see if I can then epoxy all together in a press with fiberglass cloth in-between to give me a strong ply for my joint plates each side of the frames. Have gone for letting the Ceps dry over night and then bond together so I don't trap thinner in the ply. I will be good to see how strong the ply is, should come out around 1/2 thick. 
 ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: April-20-2011 at 7:11pm
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Be careful with the "atta boys" Roger, When I first through out the idea of "redneck" cpes, it did not go over well.I did it more out of cost than "going by the book" of acceptable products.The final results were more than CC would have ever used...
I used about 5 gals total, mixed at 4 to 1 ratio. While this seems quite thin, you get the added "high" to make the next coat not seem too bad  ------------- boat dr /diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart /diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: April-20-2011 at 8:05pm
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Billy its the cost here that drives me to find out about Ceps 5L tins cost around $170.00 so I'm looking at $680.00 to do 5 US gals or using my type of epoxy which they say you can thin, I have used there thinner and it works out at $49.00 gal plus I only use the epoxy/thinner mix I need and left with epoxy for other things and may have the odd bit of thinner left.
Good to talked with you Billy, there is hype around Ceps to sell it your right about the "high" floating home tonight what worries me I quite like the smell ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-20-2011 at 8:59pm
Yes, it didn't go over very well but you used that "red neck" thinner you had sitting around in the 5 gal bucket!! Roger's using the fancy stuff!! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: April-20-2011 at 9:01pm
Karen knew when I came thru the door, that odor seems to settle into your clothes..Stip off now, or do not come in,,,,,,,  ------------- boat dr /diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart /diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-20-2011 at 9:03pm
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Roger,
Looks like you've getting it now! I wouldn't be afraid to even reduce it some more. BTW, the smell never bothered me ether but I've always had quite a resistance to solvent odors. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: April-20-2011 at 9:15pm
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Roger, Kudos on the cpes alternative but the plywood layup schedule is overkill no? That's one heck of a knee brace you're building there.
And now just because I'm bored I'll throw this out there. You're going to fasten those new knee braces with a flexible adhesive and not hard epoxy right? ------------- You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: April-20-2011 at 9:17pm
Didn't we lovingly term Billy's brew Bpes "Billy's Penetrating Epoxy Sealer" ------------- You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails |
Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: April-20-2011 at 9:19pm
Pete, while I did not receive your blessing on my boat resto,I tried with a limited budget to bring the boat back to a useable and reliable vintage boat.I admit my wooden boat skills are less than yours, but my skills with GRP and the uses of West Systems is broad. As far as the thinner I used, MEK, is a mute point, you would not approve of anything less than Smith's, and that option was not in the check book. Bottom line is I have a boat I am using now , and still have a few dollars left for fuel...... ------------- boat dr /diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart /diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier |
Posted By: wingwrench
Date Posted: April-20-2011 at 9:59pm
Hi roger, Looks like you have it sorted, good deal. It never gets cold enough here to use 207, I use 206 and 209, the 209 gives me just a little longer working time. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-20-2011 at 10:21pm
Billy! What are you talking about??? Don't the emocicons show up on your computer? Never blessed your boats? I did on all of them! Approval of anything less than Smith's CPES? I just did on Rogers mix and a long time ago when you told me about the MEK, I told you it may work but watch out for solvent entrapment! Yes you do have usable and reliable boats plus the money left over which you are and should be proud of. I'm impressed as well. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: April-20-2011 at 10:33pm
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guess I dont read those little faces too well, sorry.
But I took it as a slam. I need more work on the boat, that means less time typing, I will go back to the shop.. ------------- boat dr /diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart /diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: April-21-2011 at 9:17am
Thanks Alan but all the leg work has been done by Billy and Tim all I have done is a few simple tests, if we can drive the cost down and keep it as good then more boats will be saved, had hoped the smell may be good to attract women but Billy covered that as well.
http://www.epoxyproducts.com/penetrating4u.html - Tim's Ceps Buster Link Thanks for the heads up on fitting the nee brackets had not thought of that yet, I see you used 5200 I have some other types of PU glue to play with to see what works over cost, and the epoxy supplier has a flexible type to may be worth a look at. I like you think there is not allot of strength in my nee plates when there this small, we have alot more to use now than the guys back in the day, will use the same on the stem and keel plates if it works.  ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: April-21-2011 at 9:52am
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Roger,
One area where that may really come in handy is the vertical topside battens between teh main frame members. If you recall on the hurricane I steam bent the plywood against the closest frame member to get the batten "close" to the right shape. This worked to some extent but I still had to wrestle the battens in place and lock it all down with screws and rely on the 5200 to hold in together. With the layup of thin veneers you could do a better job of fitting the battens and after curing they would be formed exactly as you need. This would make installing the inner hull easier but more importantly it will eliminate a lot of fairing. Remember as you get up towards the bow the battens are bent in 2 directions basically they have a twist in them, my solution was ok but an epoxy layup would be the balls. Super strong, water tight and compound curved. Also super strong screw holding power, crap I want to start over. ------------- You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: April-21-2011 at 11:31am
This is what I'm talking about, further forward the twist is more pronounced. Find a way to get this done between the frame uprights with a laminate lay up and your golden.
 ------------- You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: April-21-2011 at 4:33pm
I see your almost on the same page Alan, this my thinking 5 layers of 2mm with cloth.
 ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: April-21-2011 at 6:04pm
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And there you have it! I've had so much fun with steam bending and laminating with epoxies that when the Hurricane is done I'm going to go back to building furniture and apply some of what I've learned to that old hobby.
------------- You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: April-22-2011 at 8:21am
The Moorfoot sanding pack works great, and the ply came out great too,it still floats but only just most sits under water.
 ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-22-2011 at 8:49am
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Roger,
Are you using dimensions/profiles that you got from the laser scan? I was just wondering if you got to a point taht it was usable. BTW, that plastic thru hull has got to go in the trash! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |