79SN Rebuild
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Boat Maintenance
Forum Discription: Discuss maintenance of your Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21243
Printed Date: November-19-2024 at 9:31am
Topic: 79SN Rebuild
Posted By: Dbat 79SN
Subject: 79SN Rebuild
Date Posted: April-11-2011 at 6:36pm
|
I purchased my second Ski Nautique this past fall. My first was a 1975 Ski Nautique which was in good shape (it was only 9 years old at the time), this is a 1979 in need of repair. I bought it knowing that there was a lot of restoration involved. This past weekend I discovered some dry rot in the main stringer on the port side of the boat while trying to figure out how to secure the pylon, which was loose.
I have read a number of threads on this website and viewed many of the pictures, but did not find any repair techniques for dry rot. It appears that most problems are fixed by a complete rebuild of the stringers. My question is: “Can partial dry rot be fixed or do the stringers need to be completely rebuilt?” ------------- Dave |
Replies:
Posted By: 79SNbrady
Date Posted: April-12-2011 at 12:12am
|
if you have partial rot one place...there is worst rot some where else. im rebuilding my 79 sn right now and all the wood around the battery box was pure rot! i did not realize wood can turn to dirt!!
Nick ------------- "It's just water... not concrete or dirt... so just throw it" -Parks Bonifay 1979 Ski Nautique - (stringer job completed summer 2012) 2007 236 Team - All White! |
Posted By: Keeganino
Date Posted: April-12-2011 at 12:31am
|
Welcome to the site. Your question has been asked a hundred times. You could choose to repair one problem spot, but the problem with that is that there are many more spots you cannot see that are going to be way worse. The right way is all the way. Pictures will help us to understand the extent of the damage but its a 30 year old boat and chances are that. Hows the prop shaft alignment? ------------- "working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4897" rel="nofollow - 1973 Skier |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-12-2011 at 8:57am
|
Dave,
Yes, the recommended cure is stringer replacement. You may be able to put it off for 1 or 2 seasons depending how bad it is. If you haven't checked the alignment, I suggest doing that and then checking it again every month of boating. Welcome to CCfan. BTW, Being around wood boats and wood all my life, I feel I do know my rot!  There is no such thing as "dry" rot. It was wet at one time and now dried out!  ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Dbat 79SN
Date Posted: April-12-2011 at 1:30pm
|
Ok. I think replaceing the stringers will be easier that posting a picture in this forum. Can someone tell me how to insert a picture here? I am usually not this tech challanged, but this is kicking my butt. ------------- Dave |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: April-12-2011 at 1:58pm
|
Use Photobucket (search for intructional thread on here) or the full "Post Reply" button and there is a gree tree looking button above the text box to search your hard drive. ------------- |
Posted By: Keeganino
Date Posted: April-12-2011 at 2:26pm
To post pics you have to click on the reply icon at the top right of the last post. Looks like this  . Then you have 2 square icons with a tree. Click on the one with an arrow  and that will upload your pic to the site and display the picture in the thread. The only problem you might have is that a lot of times the files size is too big. Turn your cameras resolution all the way down to 640x480 and they will be the right size for the site. ------------- "working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4897" rel="nofollow - 1973 Skier |
Posted By: Dbat 79SN
Date Posted: April-12-2011 at 2:57pm
|
Here is a picture of the area in question.
http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/uploads/10882/IMG_1134.JPG ------------- Dave |
Posted By: Dbat 79SN
Date Posted: April-12-2011 at 2:58pm
Ok that didn't work, how about this
 ------------- Dave |
Posted By: Dbat 79SN
Date Posted: April-12-2011 at 3:03pm
|
Just reading through the forum posted by 79SNbrady it appears that, pardon the expresion, "I am in the same boat". Looks like stringer replacement is inevitable. ------------- Dave |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-12-2011 at 3:28pm
Dave, I concure! Looking at how far gone that port side main is gone, I now say getting through one more season will be a problem. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Dbat 79SN wrote:Posted By: 79SNbrady
Date Posted: April-12-2011 at 3:33pm
|
Dave,
The real trick is to see how much of the wood is not there around the battery box. About right in that area where your wood is gone, my wood was a tad bit better. But once i went forward from that point there was nothing solid! All ive got to say is pick the engine and start cutting out the floor! Nick ------------- "It's just water... not concrete or dirt... so just throw it" -Parks Bonifay 1979 Ski Nautique - (stringer job completed summer 2012) 2007 236 Team - All White! |
Posted By: Dbat 79SN
Date Posted: April-12-2011 at 3:58pm
|
I have to tie up a couple other projects before I get elbows deep into this boat, but it has to happen. Thanks for the encouragement and I will take pictures and keep posting. I am sure I will have many questions going forward. I hope it will see water this summer. ------------- Dave |
Posted By: 79SNbrady
Date Posted: April-12-2011 at 4:25pm
|
Rebuilding these old boats is a huge undertaking just because of the time thats required to get it all done. I believe someone else added up how many hours its taken for them to finish there boat was like 200hrs. so far i believe i have 24hrs invested with plenty more to go. But best of luck to you! ------------- "It's just water... not concrete or dirt... so just throw it" -Parks Bonifay 1979 Ski Nautique - (stringer job completed summer 2012) 2007 236 Team - All White! |
Posted By: Keeganino
Date Posted: April-12-2011 at 4:36pm
|
Not to be the bearer of bad news but even if you started now you would be hard pressed to be on the water this summer. Scott did one last year pretty fast and got it in the water but there are about 200 hours of labor involved (5 work weeks) and that does not include all the time researching and rounding up materials. I started last January and did not get on the water till the end of August.
Your rot situation is pretty severe and as mentioned before you cant see what will likely be the worst of it. Your in the right place. Read the threads on other restorations. http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=16254&title=73-skier-restoration - My thread goes through all the newbie questions as I knew very little. these are good too:
------------- "working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4897" rel="nofollow - 1973 Skier |
Posted By: charger496
Date Posted: April-12-2011 at 5:32pm
| Just depends on how much spare time and energy you have. I spent the better part of 2 1/2 days a week starting in August and did a floorless water test at the end of November! Then I took my time for 4 months doing the last 40 or so hours in my garage. |
Posted By: Dbat 79SN
Date Posted: April-12-2011 at 6:50pm
|
Looks like I am going to have to make time.
Quick first question: "what is the best way to cut out the existing stringers?" I don't want to start by making extra work. ------------- Dave |
Posted By: Keeganino
Date Posted: April-12-2011 at 7:14pm
|
4.5" Angle grinder with a diamond wheel will take care of most of your cuts. DO yourself a favor first though and gut the boat. Take everything you can out of it but the gauges unless they are not working. You cant cut the whole floor up until the engine is out. My cables were all pretty new so I coiled the controller cables and electric cable up, zip tied them together and hung them from the shifter. I completely pulled the steering system though. The floor cut pics start http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=16254&PN=3&title=73-skier-restoration - here in my thread to get an idea what its like. ------------- "working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4897" rel="nofollow - 1973 Skier |
Posted By: Dbat 79SN
Date Posted: January-07-2012 at 8:19pm
|
In reading other threads there is a reference made to "peanut butter" when setting new stringers in place. At the risk of sounding stupid, I assume that this is not real peanut butter. Can someone let me know what goes between the new stringers and the hull?
Thanks, Dave ------------- Dave |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: January-07-2012 at 8:50pm
|
'Peanut butter' is epoxy resin thickened with a solid like cabosil or milled fiberglass. It is just a filler to create a radius. ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: Dbat 79SN
Date Posted: January-07-2012 at 9:04pm
|
Thanks.
Couple more questions: Has anyone used LVL lumber instead of douglas fir for the stringers? The secondary stringer was made of 3/4", can 1 1/2" be used there just like the main stringer? ------------- Dave |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: January-07-2012 at 9:55pm
Dave, Yes, LVL is an alternate and in fact we have a member who has done it. There's a complete thread with pictures on it. I recommended it and he tried it. It came out great. Don't worry about the secondaries and having to use doug Fir. They are not the main structure so you can use some decent 3/4 pine of any species. Just make sure you CPES all the wood. Try the advanced search feature. (over 6 months old) If you can't find it, I'll see if I can. Sometimes the key words can be tricky. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: DrStevens
Date Posted: January-07-2012 at 11:49pm
| Dave, I feel your pain on photo posting, you learned it faster than I have'nt, makes me Leary about stringer work when I can hardly post a photo on the site. |
Posted By: Morfoot
Date Posted: January-08-2012 at 11:49am
|
FYI for you guy's that are doing stringer jobs and don't know:
Cab o Sil - fumed silica, used for altering the properties of resin to change thixotropy, add viscosity or increase bond strength. Use to prevent draining from glue joints or on vertical surfaces. Use in combination with other fillers to improve working properties and minimize draining with polyester and epoxy resins. Use with resin or gel coat to make a patching paste or putty. Milled Fibers - fine powdered glass fiber used as a reinforcement to increase mechanical strengths of resins. Add to fillets for increased strength. Use when laminating to fill tight radius. Microspheres/ Microballons - use to extend resin, to reduce weight, shrinkage and sanding effort. Use to fill laminate weave, as a fairing compound and for making fillets. We use all three at the 'Big D' with Microballons probably what we use the most of. We use a resin mixed with 22% ratio of Microballons for a rubstrip on an air oil seal that is attached to the main rotor shaft on a CFM -56 motor. Needless to say it's pretty tuff stuff. ** post edit** Resin and Microballoon mixtures are also used to pot replacement honeycomb core into a damaged portion of aircraft panels, fairings, cowlings etc. It's a normal Boeing repair so if we're using it to fix panels that go over 400 mph I'd say its pretty safe to use to bond stringers to a boat. ------------- "Morfoot; He can ski. He can wakeboard.He can cook chicken.He can create his own self-named beverage, & can also apparently fly. A man of many talents."72 Mustang "Kermit",88 SN Miss Scarlett, 99 SN "Sherman" |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: January-08-2012 at 12:57pm
|
Nice break-down Tim; almost sounds like it came from someone who's worked with it before?
What's your tech 411 on talc? ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: Morfoot
Date Posted: January-08-2012 at 1:23pm
Yeah, just a little bit. 10+ years of composite experience for DAL. Guess if they go belly up I can get a job in Orlando building boats. Built up an air/oil seal just yesterday.
Guess I need to start taking pics of all this stuff. I'll have to post pictures of a acoustic liner that I repaired but first had to pull parts of 'Tweety' out of. Here's the scoop on: Talc - an inexpensive filler used to extend resin and reduce shrinkage. Talc is a component in many fillers and faring compounds imparting excellent sanding properties where weight is not an issue. I do have a confession though...I'm not that techno savy when it comes to definitions. I do know the uses of each and why you use one or the other but cheated when it comes to short descriptions. Here's the link where I got the info: 
http://www.fiberglasssupply.com/Product_Catalog/Fillers/fillers.html - Resin Fillers and their descriptions of use. ------------- "Morfoot; He can ski. He can wakeboard.He can cook chicken.He can create his own self-named beverage, & can also apparently fly. A man of many talents."72 Mustang "Kermit",88 SN Miss Scarlett, 99 SN "Sherman" |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: January-08-2012 at 2:09pm
I was sincere with my compliment. I thought your description was excellent...just tech enough with practical info. 
I used talc and liked it mixed with other stuff so I had to see if you would diss it. It does help a little with the wallet damage. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: January-08-2012 at 9:13pm
|
Tim - Careful posting shop pictures on the web -- I know that would get me fired from my job. ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: Dbat 79SN
Date Posted: February-10-2012 at 6:35pm
|
I'm just about finished cutting and fitting the new stringers and wat to start priming them with CPES. I can't find any coverage area on any of the websites that sell CPES. Can anyone give me a clue as to how much I need to order to prime the primary and secondary stingers? ------------- Dave |
Posted By: Jllogan
Date Posted: February-10-2012 at 6:43pm
|
well, coverage depends on what soaks in. I think its maybe a little under a gallon for stringers? Are you doing a wood floor? because mine was like 2 gallons for everything. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5792&sort=&pagenum=1" rel="nofollow - 1986 Ski Nautique 2001 |
Posted By: Dbat 79SN
Date Posted: February-10-2012 at 6:49pm
|
Yes, I am doing the floor as well. Thanks for the quick reply. ------------- Dave |
Posted By: Jllogan
Date Posted: February-10-2012 at 7:08pm
|
seems that two gallons is about where most guys end up. That left me some do to the inspection panel in the back and the wood pieces up under the bow, I used every drop. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5792&sort=&pagenum=1" rel="nofollow - 1986 Ski Nautique 2001 |
Posted By: Keeganino
Date Posted: February-10-2012 at 10:03pm
|
Yep go for the 2 gallon kit. The first coat soaks up a ton. Each successive coat will require less. I did 3 or 4 coats and. Y the last one will barely soak in at all. Then you know it is saturated. ------------- "working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4897" rel="nofollow - 1973 Skier |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: February-10-2012 at 10:17pm
Dave, Have you been looking at the existing threads on stringer replacements? they are an excellent source for what's needed. The big variable will be the moisture content of the wood you are using. What is it? have you checked it with the moisture meter??? The drier it is, the more CPES is sucked in!! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Dbat 79SN
Date Posted: February-28-2012 at 11:09pm
|
I've been reading threads and doing reserch on epoxy vs. polyester resins for stringer replacement and I just don't seem to find a clear answer. The original boat was done with polyester resin, but it appears that there is quite a bit of differing opinions on which one should be used. Can anyone clear this up for me? ------------- Dave |
Posted By: 79TiqueRebuild
Date Posted: February-28-2012 at 11:23pm
| David, From what I remember when doing the research for my 79 sn rebuild, is that polyester is hydroscopic. Water will penetrate it. I used epoxy and was pleased with the results. I'm sure some of the experts will chime in. I am just a hobbyist but I hope that this helps. Monty |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: February-29-2012 at 12:41am
|
My little experence comes from having an attached garage,epoxy does not smell up the house and keeps everyone happy. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: February-29-2012 at 10:44am
|
Glass CC's were built with polyester resin until 1989. They were built with vinylester from '89-92 (AME4000). Since then, theyve used a vinyl/epoxy blend (AME5000).
Epoxy is the best of the 3 types- it does not absorb water. It is also the strongest, and its easiest to work with (easy to get proper mix ratio between resin and hardener, very low on fumes, no need to add wax to get it to cure, etc). Polyester is the low end in all these regards, vinyl splits the difference between the 2. Pricing per gallon is in the $30 range for poly, $40 for vinyl and $50 for epoxy. For a manufacturer, the difference in cost is significant when youre building a lot of boats (which is why most are built with poly). For a single boat rebuild, the cost difference for the small amount of resin required (10-15 gallons) is only a few hundred bucks... so it seems most people are willing to spend a little extra for the "good stuff" if theyre going to be investing 200+ hrs in labor for such a project. ------------- |
Posted By: Dbat 79SN
Date Posted: February-29-2012 at 2:18pm
|
Thanks for the input. Now I have the next question...what is the best epoxy to buy? Most of the epoxies that I have found are about $75-$100 a gallon and the one I have found some of the better reviews on is "System Three". Do you have a recomendation and a source? ------------- Dave |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: February-29-2012 at 2:31pm
|
I, and many others here, have used http://uscomposites.com/ - US Composites with good results. ------------- |