DIY Dredging
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Forum Discription: Anything non-Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21380
Printed Date: January-11-2025 at 2:53pm
Topic: DIY Dredging
Posted By: skier12
Subject: DIY Dredging
Date Posted: April-20-2011 at 12:53pm
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I posted this message on Planetnautique and received no replies, this is a bit more of a DIY crowd so hopefully someone out there has some ideas. But here's my dilema.
We've got a place at the end of a channel and the prevailing winds inevitably blow anything and everything down to the end of it. The channel was man made about 30 years ago and over the years the weeds and other material that have floated down have caused about two feet of sediment build up. The channel was originally only about 5 ft deep so now that were down to about 3ft in most places we've decided to see if we can do anything about it. We've been considering renting a 3 or 4" trash pump and pumping the material up to a ditch/containment area we'll make. The ditch would be about 300ft away and 25 ft uphill. The area we'd like to move is a very soft mud with a sandy bottom we're trying to reach. The area we'd like to clear is about 20x30' and we'd be fine with just clearing a few spots if the 20x30 area ends up being too large. Does anyone have any idea if this will work? How big/powerful of a pump will we need? How manuverable is the pump head will it need to be attached to the dock? Any insight would be great, we're just trying to get any idea of what we could do. |
Replies:
Posted By: 75 Tique
Date Posted: April-20-2011 at 1:12pm
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Not an expert, but just some thoughts. 20 x 30 x 2 is about 44 cubic yards of stuff, figure thats 4-5 single axle dump truck loads...thats a pretty big trench. You might also run into issues with your local or state conservation commission or state agency on such an effort. I cant speak to the hydraulics, one of the engineers will have to jump in, but 25 feet of head and 300 feet is a lot more than a trash pump could handle I would guess. I am sympathetic to your plight, I have seen a lot of end-of-coves fill in and its a real shame, but I don't know what the answer is. ------------- _____________ “So, how was your weekend?” “Well, let me see…sun burn, stiff neck, screwed up back, assorted aches and pains….yup, my weekend was great, thanks for asking.” |
Posted By: DIXIECHICKEN
Date Posted: April-20-2011 at 1:14pm
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Do you have a water board or some kind of committe that you would have to go through in order to do this? Just asking cause our water board won't let anyone mess with dredging out there spots. ------------- GIG EM!!! 
If its hurtin, soak it in cider!! 
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Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-20-2011 at 1:14pm
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Before you do anything, you'd better contact your state water authority. DNR? I'm sure they will have some input to what is required for permits. I'd hate to see you end up with a fine. In Wisconsin, I've ssen them issue fines in the 10's of thousands for just moving a old tree stump. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: emccallum
Date Posted: April-20-2011 at 1:23pm
| I dredged the end of our cove a few years ago. I got some neighbors to chip in to help cover some costs. We removed about 700 dump truck loads. It was a major job. It took me about a year to get the permit from the Army corp of Engineers. Tons of red tape. It was pretty easy to get a permit just around your dock, but a bit harder to get what we wanted. We were very lucky to have had a drought at the time and i finally got the work done about 2 months before the water came back up! |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-20-2011 at 1:29pm
BTW, although not the answers your were looking for, you got 3 here within 2 minutes. Unless you are putting in a sound system or LED lights, PN is not the place for a question like yours! 
Larry brought up a interesting fact on your idea and that's all the muck you pump out. That will most likely be another authority you'll need to deal with. Many land agencies will consider it hazardous waste and it will need to be tested. After the testing, then where you put it will be determined. Larry, You are correct on the anount of head needed to pump the muck up. A centrifugal trash pump would struggle. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: tullfooter
Date Posted: April-20-2011 at 1:33pm
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Get in touch with local dredging companies. Google pond dredging in your area. They can give you insight to the local ins and outs. The DNR/DEQ, or whatever they call themselves this year, will give you fits. ------------- Play hard, life's not a trial run. '85 BFN '90 BFN White Lake, Michigan |
Posted By: skier12
Date Posted: April-20-2011 at 2:17pm
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Wow first off that response rate was impressive, 6 in forty minutes.
I will definitely have to look into the permitting process. As far as the lake itself though, it's small and private so there are only loosely organized associates which govern it and that’s primarily limited to road maintenance. I've heard that it is easier to get a permit if A) it was a space originally dredged and B) if it's to improve the navigability of the waterway, is that true? Would I be dealing with a local, state, or federal agency? If we did end up pumping the material how big of a pump and what type would we realistically need? Oh and digging a large enough ditch wouldn't be a problem we have friends with an excavator who would put it on our property. We don't have any neighbors close to complain about that our land backs up to association land that can never be built on. |
Posted By: Wacko
Date Posted: April-20-2011 at 4:28pm
around here there is a slim to none chance of getting a permit. You might damage a fish habitat. 
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Posted By: emccallum
Date Posted: April-20-2011 at 4:58pm
| I had to do the work when there was no spawning. I also had to have silt fences, along with about a page of other stuff. |
Posted By: emccallum
Date Posted: April-20-2011 at 5:06pm
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I am sure other parts of the country are as bad or worse than SC. DHEC has really clamped down on waterways/wetlands. They have expanded their definitions to include many private ponds. Years ago they would let you build a pond on your land with little or no grief. DNR would even help out with stocking the pond. Today, you have to show "need" to build a pond,like feeding cattle, irrigation, etc. and even then it is hard to get the permit.
Once again a gvt agency out of control....what they cant legislate they regulate! |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-20-2011 at 6:16pm
States own bodies of water even if all the land around it is privately held. Most likely the county will be involved with the land issue but, if the area is close to being a "wet land". (you mentioned it "can never be built on") then the state would be involved with it as well. I hope it's not wet!!!! Do not start the project without taking care of both the water and land. On land, you wouldn't build a house without a permit!!! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
skier12 wrote:Posted By: hasbeenskier
Date Posted: April-20-2011 at 11:00pm
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Wait a year and all the Government agenies will be too broke to enforce.
------------- hasbeenskier |
Posted By: skier12
Date Posted: April-21-2011 at 2:58am
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Oh we are a long way from actually doing anything, we are strictly trying to get info at this point. My post basically informed me I need to do a lot more research.
Although I do know that at least in this area you are able to do as much work as you'd like if you do it by hand. Maybe I should just have a gathering of my closest 100 friends after the lake is dropped in the fall. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-21-2011 at 9:30am
Be careful with this method as well. I don't want to sound negative but these government agencies are going crazy with "back to nature/keep it natural" philosophies. I'd hate to see you get in trouble and have a $$$ fine to deal with. I mention the removal of a old tree stump. It's the same for disturbing the lake bottom. Yes, do all the investigating first. Keep us informed of what you find out. Regarding the pump, I feel you would need a positive displacement type like a concrete pump or a diaphragm pump. Nether would be very practical. Dredging would be a better option. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: April-21-2011 at 6:03pm
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Also finds a supportive civil engineer with wetland scientist specialties, and hire one. They are not all newt-higging hippies, many want to see people use the land and water. If you have a stamped plan your credibility improves talking to the state agencies. ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: April-21-2011 at 9:57pm
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up here in ooohio we back the boat up, tie er off real good, and nail it.
actually i was just at a boat repair place (friends) here in Ohio and they built a loading dock that they fill with water, back the boat down in and tie it up...pretty slick. these guys are by the book and i get them going all the time with the envelope thing, all I hear from them is "you what" "you what" well doesnt the corp handle waterways? ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: dochockey
Date Posted: April-23-2011 at 10:40am
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so skier12 give us an update? ------------- 1989 Teal Ski Nautique 1967 Mustang Harris Float Sunfish |
Posted By: LaurelLakeSkier
Date Posted: April-23-2011 at 11:25am
I've got a neighbor that used this method.....worked well to give him a hole 8' deep near his dock but all the silt he pushed up off the bottom built up a berm 100' out or so. He now only has about 1' depth there and has a tough time getting in to his dock. Moral of the story.....all that crud on the bottom has to go somewhere. ------------- The world is full of youth—what we need is a fountain of smart! |
Posted By: Mrusso94
Date Posted: April-23-2011 at 2:57pm
| You mentioned they draw the lake down in the fall?? I would say forget the pump and get an excavator in there, find someone to haul the stuff and you'll be much better off in my opinion.. And of secure the permits. |
Posted By: skier12
Date Posted: April-23-2011 at 6:57pm
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A few correct keyword searches turned up this http://www.sherbornma.org/Pages/SherbornMA_ConscomNews/01597660-000F8513.0/Dredging%20Process.pdf - MA Permits
Looks like I'll need a local permit and possibly a water permit. Mrusso94 I think you're right we may have to reconsider our plan and possibly do this in the fall when the channel is nearly dry. With a large excavator and dump truck the work could probably be done in a few hours. The land opposite our bank of the channel is also association land and is dry and not too steep for an excavator, unlike our side. Oh and the association land is was refering to is not a wet land it was purchased by our assocation and donated to a land conservation trust, that's why it can't be built on. Unfortunately we can't just run the boat and push the mud out of the way, the nautique would be fine but our pontoon boat docked directly behind it would probably be high and dry. |
Posted By: 75 Tique
Date Posted: April-23-2011 at 9:04pm
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Well how about that. This is the first time you told us you were in MA. When I threw out conservation commission in the second post, I was just throwing out an example knowing all states were different. But it really is teh ConCom you you be dealing with. Start there. They can guide you through it, if they will even allow it. MA is extremely conservative about such things. I have to deal with wetland issues and ConComs periodically with my job. Always a challenge. But like I said, start there. It may be a small enough area that DEP and ACOE will not get involved but I am not sure. Doing it in the dry will be a heck of a lot easier. I was involved with a large scale excavation of a reservoir bottom that became loaded with arsenic impacted sediment that washed out of a flyash landfill a few years ago. They were thinking of dredging but went the in the dry route even though it meant not capturing as much of the sediment. Shurburne will probably be tough.
The more upscale an area, the tougher they are. ------------- _____________ “So, how was your weekend?” “Well, let me see…sun burn, stiff neck, screwed up back, assorted aches and pains….yup, my weekend was great, thanks for asking.” |
Posted By: skier12
Date Posted: April-25-2011 at 1:39pm
| I guess I hadn't mentioned where the lake was until then. I actually live in CT and we have the cabin on a small lake in the SW Berkshires, not in Shurburne they just ended up having the article with permit guidelines. We've decided that the excavator method when the lake is lowered would be the most desirable way to effectively clean out the channel. Hopefully we can get the permit process completed during the summer and then perform the work in November. Although we know that timeline is quite optimistic. |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: April-25-2011 at 2:03pm
This piqued my curiousity... I had to do a quick search and found http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=18402 - this post from last summer . Youre in my backyard. I work about 15 miles NW of Hartford, and live/ski an hr west of the city. A buddy of mine grew up on Otis. Small world! Sorry, Im no help with the dredging question- but having witnessed a few permitting processes dealing with things on or near the water, my guess is that you might have your work cut out for you! Getting an experienced engineer in your corner to walk you through the process is probably a good idea. ------------- |