EFI Conversion on a 76 PCM 351W
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Engine Repair
Forum Discription: Engine problems and solutions
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=22105
Printed Date: November-22-2024 at 2:29pm
Topic: EFI Conversion on a 76 PCM 351W
Posted By: 28_OFF
Subject: EFI Conversion on a 76 PCM 351W
Date Posted: June-15-2011 at 4:34am
| I have begu the conversion to fuel injection. I have a Projection III kit from Professional Products, have it mounted to the manifold now and it looks just like a holley carb. I had the oxygen sensor mount installed (pretty cool, seals out the water in the exhaust) I have to plumb a return line to the back to the tank and will be ready to fire it up. Its a total of 4 wires for the harnes and 2 wires to the external fuel pump. I keep you guys posted. I got tired of adjusting the carb at each lake I went to. Each lake being a big difference in elevation, I am at 5200 ft and some of the lakes I go to range from 1200 to 6500. |
Replies:
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: June-15-2011 at 10:12am
|
lets see some pics, you wouldnt happpen to work for professional products would you? ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: June-15-2011 at 4:10pm
|
pics or it didn´t happen!!! lol..I´m curious into seeing how it performs...
------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: 28_OFF
Date Posted: June-16-2011 at 1:02am
 
|
Posted By: 28_OFF
Date Posted: June-16-2011 at 1:04am
|
don't mind the rusted coil bracket and coil laying around its getting replaced soon.
|
Posted By: TX Foilhead
Date Posted: June-16-2011 at 1:59am
| Pretty cool idea, I think the problem with the Holley system is that these motors are at or above the HP levels that it will support. I don't see a thing on your site about anything being marine rated so, good luck with your testing, hope you don't blow yourself up. |
Posted By: horkn
Date Posted: June-16-2011 at 2:22am
|
The other efi/ tb efi systems from the marinizers don't appear any different than the automotive ones other than a flame arrestor. Who knows?
As far as the sensor in the exhaust, it works that way? ------------- 78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
Posted By: 28_OFF
Date Posted: June-16-2011 at 2:59am
|
the HP rating is up to 500 Hp with the fuel pressure set at 45 psi. You could increase the fuel presure and go beyond that. The base system i am using is far above the HP rating of a 351W.
The marine version which doesnt exist would consist of a marine spark arrester which I am using from my old carb. Its a Professional Products 70026 Powerjection, not a Holley Pro-Injection sorry I messed up the name in my earlier post. The oxygen sensor mount is a neat design, you drill a larger hole in the outside wall, then a smaller one inside. I will uploadsome pics |
Posted By: 28_OFF
Date Posted: June-16-2011 at 3:04am
   
|
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: June-16-2011 at 7:48am
|
How much does the kit cost? ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-16-2011 at 8:38am
That sensor mount looks like they used a spud washer assembly off a urinal!  No matter as long as it works.
Yes, keep us informed of how the project works out. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: June-16-2011 at 10:41am
|
Location of the o2 sensor is always an issue because any moisture and it's toast. I think you should be ok there but time will tell, please keep this thread going after you get it running and report back with results/issues.
I played around with making an adapter for an o2 sensor a while ago so I could hook up an air/fuel meter for engine tuning, that was a semi success because it worked for a while but I killed 2 sensors from moisture as the final sensor placement on my log manifolds was too close to the water entry. I don't think it takes much to ruin an 02 sensor. This first picture is an adapter I made for PCM manifolds which I never installed but think it should work. The later is the one for my logs which again worked long enough for tuning but failed later. Both versions install between the manifold and elbow. 
Good luck with your project, sounds like fun. ------------- You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails |
Posted By: 28_OFF
Date Posted: June-27-2011 at 2:43am
| Started up, idled a bit ruff for about 10 seconds, then the self tuning kicked in and idled perfect, revd it a couple of times and sounded it great, took it to the lake, started first try, idled perfect like it wasnt even cold, took off hard from a full stop several times to get it to finish tuning its self and then went full throttle, hit 44 mph at 4000 RPM, It has never been that fast, never got past 38 before. VERY happy, should continue to tune itself and get better. Will keep you guys posted. |
Posted By: TX Foilhead
Date Posted: July-07-2011 at 2:21am
| How's it working out? |
Posted By: dwp
Date Posted: August-03-2011 at 2:08pm
|
Yes, I am interested in how things are running also. I have a '86 Martinique, that I am selling, but I may keep and do a conversion.
How long did the conversion take, any "gotcha's"? Would you recommend? -dave ------------- |
Posted By: 28_OFF
Date Posted: August-05-2011 at 2:57am
| I couldnt be more happy, took about 5 hours to install, time was spent plumbing the return line. I would have replaced my fuel gauge sender with one that was plumbed for a return already so I didn't have to drill a hole in my tank. A alot of the time was also spent running a whole new fuel supply just because I had so much braided line. |
Posted By: TX Foilhead
Date Posted: August-05-2011 at 3:30am
| Cool, I've been hoping you would be back with good news. How much did it improve your fuel consumption? |
Posted By: horkn
Date Posted: August-07-2011 at 1:53pm
|
Yeah, definitely keep us posted. I looked on their site and there are returnless versions too. ------------- 78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
Posted By: dwp
Date Posted: August-07-2011 at 4:23pm
|
Sounds good. I have done some research on it, and they now offer a "PowerJection III" unit which no longer requires a return line to the tank, and the electronics are completely on the throttle body itself.
Sounds like a real nifty kit, I will wait and see if I don't sell my Martinique, it would be a great candidate. ------------- |
Posted By: storm34
Date Posted: August-08-2011 at 2:26pm
|
Price? If you don't mind. ------------- |
Posted By: TX Foilhead
Date Posted: August-08-2011 at 2:41pm
| I haven't done much searching, but looks like about $1800 plus whatever they charge for the exhaust plug. That was the company website so maybe some others have it cheaper. A little more than the Holley system, but nobody seems to be anle to make that one work. Looks like they also might have the pieces to make a multiport system, but I haven't found a complete kit for that. If this is as easy as it sounds, might make my winter project todo list. |
Posted By: dwp
Date Posted: August-09-2011 at 2:10pm
|
Yes, $2000 when all said and done, I'm sure. ------------- |
Posted By: skfitz
Date Posted: August-09-2011 at 5:43pm
|
That is a sweet O2 adapter! Do they sell it alone? 81nautique's are slick too.
I've run a Megasquirt TBI system on my 1975 351w for about 18 months. However, it runs open loop only (so you have to dial it in a little more precisely). I'd love to let it autotune with O2 feedback. My system cost me a total of about 600$ (and a pretty steep learning curve). It was definitely not a drop-in "kit". All fuel lines, connectors and wiring are marine. The throttle body -- from a GM truck -- temp sensors, fuel pump, computer (w/ map sensor) and home-made relay board are not. |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: August-09-2011 at 6:25pm
pictures of that setup are welcome!!! How is it runing performance wise? how you fuel consumption? ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
skfitz wrote:Posted By: horkn
Date Posted: August-10-2011 at 1:21am
|
You know, most efi parts on efi boats from the factory don't have specific marine ratings and are simply automotive items.
Post up. I' m interested. ------------- 78 martinique- refloored, reinforced, stringers re glassed, re engineered interior GT40P heads Edelbrock Performer intake acme 4 blade http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/horkn/fish/nautique.jpg |
Posted By: 28_OFF
Date Posted: August-10-2011 at 2:37pm
| The mount was purchased from Howell Engine Developments at http://howellefi.com/ . I didn't establish a base line for fuel consumption, wasn't really paying attention to it, my problems were rooted in going to a different elevation lake each time and never having the carb adjusted right for any of them. I really like the easy of the tuning, just tell it what displacement it was, start it up idled ruff for about ten seconds and it smoothed out and then run it around on the lake and it self tuned. the returnless system was my first choice but was back orderd for 4 months so I changed to order to the return style when I found out the return computer controll part of the kit was what was holding it up and they could ship the next day if I go tthe return style and it was $300 cheaper. I got it for $1600 but that was ordered before the price change. |
Posted By: tedwarde
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 10:32pm
| On your Powerjection install, did you use their fuel pump or did you use a USCG approved marine fuel pump instead? If you used theirs, any problems with the fact that it was not a marine unit? I've heard that automotive pumps do not perform well in boats. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 10:55pm
A VERY excellent point!!! Why "upgrade" if it's not marine rated??? So, you create a bomb under the dog house?? Real nice!!!! Not given, Please fill us in before you potentially misdirect someone else. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 28_OFF
Date Posted: August-20-2011 at 3:06am
|
From my experience the issues with the automotive mechanical fuel pumps are the problem with the weep hole and single diaphram. Instead of the dual diaphram and overflow tube running to the carb on the Marine. This is fuel injected so a return line sends the excess fuel back and all you have to worryabout is the electrical connections being sealed to prevent a spark. As for the possibility of corrosion this is always related to salt water and I have no intention of taking my 18 foot comp ski boat in the ocean.
In the end I went with a marine efi fuel pump just so I didn't get yelled at. |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: August-21-2011 at 11:57am
|
QUOTE]
A VERY excellent point!!! Why "upgrade" if it's not marine rated??? So, you create a bomb under the dog house?? Real nice!!!! Not given, Please fill us in before you potentially misdirect someone else.[/QUOTE] As said before... Gee Ward aren’t you being a little rough on the beav'
|
Posted By: dwp
Date Posted: August-21-2011 at 11:40pm
|
Ya, easy on the new guy, WTF! ------------- |
Posted By: AlfaDon
Date Posted: November-10-2012 at 4:42am
|
Hey 28_Off, How did the O2 sensor hold out this season? I'm really curious to find out how well it's working. I want to go EFI closed loop on a system I'm building. Thanks, Don |
Posted By: lewy2001
Date Posted: August-06-2013 at 11:29pm
Alan do you still have the above adapter for the PCM manifolds? If so are you willing to sell? Looking to data log the fuel mapping on a standard GT40. Thanks Lewy ------------- If you're going through hell, keep going http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2999" rel="nofollow - 89 Ski <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5685" ta |
Posted By: rosconole
Date Posted: November-29-2019 at 5:37pm
|
Did you end up using sandwich adapter or plumb in through the side of riser ? ------------- 1989 ski nautique ,1991 barefoot nautique, 1993 Mustang Cobra 1998 5.0 Magazine shootout invitee |
Posted By: forvicjr
Date Posted: November-29-2019 at 6:00pm
|
Havent performed the swap yet. Im lookin at an adapter that goes in the side of the upper riser ------------- “Tact is the ability to step on a man's toes without messing up the shine on his shoes.” ― Harry S. Truman |
Posted By: Peter6000
Date Posted: December-01-2019 at 3:56pm
I run very similar O2 sensor adapters on a Megasqirt MS3X for about 3 years now, no problems. I went further converted to real full sequential fuel injection, full sequential spark and coil near plug setup with 2 O2 sensors. I run way better then the original setup but removing the distributer made a huge difference. I use a marine grade fuel pump and flame arrestor the ECU is in the front under the dashboard. This should keep it save from exploding especially with the distributor gone there are no more sparks in the engine compartment. I also setup a warnings for low fuel pressure in case I have a fuel leak somewhere the warning automatically disables the starter. Peter Peter |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: December-02-2019 at 3:03pm
May be a silly question, but if low oil pressure disables the starter, how do you start it normally with no oil pressure? If you have a fuel leak and it's running, who cares if the starter is disabled? Or do you maybe mean that the ignition system gets disabled and the engine quits? |
Posted By: Peter6000
Date Posted: December-02-2019 at 3:14pm
|
Its fuel pressure, if you turn on ign. the pump runs for 10 sec and builds up pressure. If the pressure drops due to a leak the starter get disabled and a alarm goes off. You can set several different conditions and program the response like turn off power or disable starter. This is very flexible. For example you can create a window for your oil pressure shut off by rpm. Peter |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: December-02-2019 at 3:28pm
Got it, fuel pressure  So if there's a fuel leak, the alarm goes off and disables the starter, but the engine keeps running till you turn it off or it stalls, then you can't restart it? It seems like by the time you get the low fuel pressure, maybe you've had the fire already with pressurized fuel spraying around under the engine box and hitting the hot exhaust manifolds before the water jacketed area What's the normal fuel pressure and what's the low pressure setpoint? Must have the low oil pressure shutoff on the fuel pump to stop the flow of fuel so you don't continue feeding the fire if it started |
Posted By: Peter6000
Date Posted: December-03-2019 at 10:35am
|
Funny I thought I typed a response yesterday guess it did not stick. As of now I only monitor fuel pressure at start up to avoid starting the engine with fuel leak. Leak on running engine is a good point I will put that on my to do list for the winter. My fuel pressure goes to 52 psi ign. on eng. off, my idle pressure is 45 psi. my set point is at 38. I have tested this a small leak will drop the pressure fairly quick. The set point and the response can be programmed to everything. Non of these are available on the original setup so I feel a little saver with this even if it does not have the "marine approved" stamp on it. Peter |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: December-03-2019 at 10:34pm
|
Well, now I guess now we both know what the other one was thinking Having read your other posts here and on other websites, I think you should put your whole project into one thread, cause it sounds like a pretty interesting upgrade to a gt40 or really any other 351w for that matter. You might get some comments from those who are stuck in the stone age, but plenty of people would find it interesting That "marine approved" stamp is getting to be more and more of a gray area all the time it seems
|
Posted By: Peter6000
Date Posted: December-04-2019 at 10:46am
|
Keno, I agree I actually felt attacked by some by some fellow skiers that love there carburetor. I understand the connection, carburetors are incredible mechanical inventions. My background is in electronics and IT therefor processor controlled systems are more my cup of tee. I'm actually working on a complete report of the conversion I still need to tape some videos. I hope I find some time during the winter season. When complete I start a new post here and in the other forum. And 28_OFF I did a quick google but could not find a lot of info on the Projection III kit would it allow for spark control as well. How do you control it, is there a tuning software with it? BTW I like how clean your engine looks I feel inspired to clean up mine and put some paint on it in Spring. Peter |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: December-04-2019 at 11:14am
|
I think 28_OFF just plain vanished, his last time logged in was a little over 7 years ago Rosconole dragged this thread back from the grave after a 6 year "nap", but a write up on yours at some point would be interesting |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: December-04-2019 at 11:20am
|
+1 I’m curious as to what engine you converted in the first place - a carbed engine or a GT 40 ? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: Peter6000
Date Posted: December-04-2019 at 12:08pm
|
I converted a 1999 GT40 so I already had 8 fuel injectors installed and a working fuel pump system. here is a quick summery of the steps I did. I purchased the boat with a blown engine and had it completely rebuild.and drilled to the biggest size. This create a problem with the vintage ford open loop ECU. Bad idle and bad hot start. Here are the steps: -build Megasquirt MS3X -Build adapter to have plug and play -set up MS3X to imitate old Ford ECU (batch fire fuel injection, TFI ignition with distributor) now I was able to control the spark and fuel map and fix the idle and hot start performance was the same as the Ford ECU -added 2 O2 sensors /absolutely necessary for tuning the engine /now autotune works -added a crank toothed wheel and sensor for better timing -converted the distributer to a cam sensor for full sequential fuel and spark -removed distributor and put 2 quat spark coils in place -replace fuel pressure regulator with adjustable version (needed more fuel at full throttle) -added/replace 2 knock sensors (better save the sorry) -added permanent fuel pressure sensor -at this point I had to change the wiring, the ford connector did not work well I removed/converted the wiring harness all new waterproof connectors. no more going back to Ford ECU. -re tuned the engine to full seq. fuel and spark run autotune for a couple of hours -added several alarms like fuel+oil pressure, temp++ to trigger check engine, limp mode or engine off now the engine runs, idles and starts like dream plans for the winter -replace rest of distributor with ford cam sensor -add digital dash board with GPS speed and all gauges (almost done) -ad CAN bus to get more sensor readings like: speed from paddle wheel, exhaust temp., lake water temp,+++ -Integrate perfect pass maybe even drive by wire for throttle control my perfect pass controller is dead I plan on using a Arduino to replace it but this maybe next winter. Peter |
Posted By: rosconole
Date Posted: December-04-2019 at 2:19pm
|
Was just out there looking for other folk that may have gone down this route of no more carb rebuilds and better throttle response. Been busy on the road cashin checks and breaking necks but here is where I am leaning to , I have just about figured out all the details on hurdles will need to cross. https://www.holley.com/products/marine_and_powersports/marine/sniper_efi_marine/sniper_efi_4150_marine/parts/550-511 https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/fuel_injection/sniper_efi/sniper_4bbl_tbi_kits/sniper_4bbl_tbi_master_kits_with_fuel_system/parts/550-511K I know the Hose isn't probably USCG cert but it would get it up and running. ------------- 1989 ski nautique ,1991 barefoot nautique, 1993 Mustang Cobra 1998 5.0 Magazine shootout invitee |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: December-04-2019 at 7:56pm
Now I may be about as sharp as a bowling ball, but I don't see where any of what you've done has really affected the "marine certification " or whatever of your engine. You still have most of the injection system like the injectors, throttle body, marine fuel pump. You're basically just controlling it all with a different ECU that doesn't say marine in it's description. (And it 's not even in the engine compartment) I'd bet that the original Ford ECU has no "marine" pedigree of any kind, otherwise those people replacing theirs with a reprogrammed automotive one have some issues You have a marine starter and alternator I'd assume and you mentioned having a marine flame arrestor Maybe your fuel lines are questionable? Tell me what I'm missing
|
Posted By: forvicjr
Date Posted: December-04-2019 at 8:25pm
|
Ive since decided to go 6.0 LS swap since my boat factory chevy anyway. ------------- “Tact is the ability to step on a man's toes without messing up the shine on his shoes.” ― Harry S. Truman |
Posted By: rosconole
Date Posted: December-05-2019 at 2:50am
Its no where near a Ford ECU , Megasquirt was designed to be go between a stock EFI system and a full blown sequential wideband EFI system for cost effectiveness and tune-ability , But you would realize its now a crank triggered coil on plug system now if you read what he said.. Which is similar to LS in nature or design to later Ford or Lincoln. Its all really the same when it comes to EFI marine PCM might have some coated circuit board and all weatherpack connectors and programming , they may have a slightly different pin locations and harness. . But for the most part you can rob parts from a ford truck or a mustang of similar year. The starter/alternator may be different and fuel line probably is for obvious reasons. If you recall the red and white SN that had a gt40 motor out of ford lighting that was definitely not anything ford "marine" I think it went every bit of 60 or I heard. ------------- 1989 ski nautique ,1991 barefoot nautique, 1993 Mustang Cobra 1998 5.0 Magazine shootout invitee |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: December-05-2019 at 7:59am
|
Now Rosco If you read what I said and asked you'd probably realize that I read everything he wrote and I asked him (Peter) what made his setup non marine (or any less "marine". I never said it was anything like a Ford ECU, just said it was a different ECU. I guess you'll have to give a refresher or maybe a link to the red and white SN you're talking about with the lightning motor |
Posted By: Peter6000
Date Posted: December-05-2019 at 10:56am
|
Rosco, the sniper looks like a good option the big benefit I see is the easy install, autotune and very compact. From what I can see the autotune is it, you can’t change spark and fuel tables manually to fine tune your setup. I did not see a knock sensor these are a must have if you want to tune your spark timing to max. Without you take the risk of going to fare and blow your engine. It can control spark timing but will not allow you to eliminate the distributor. My MS3X has autotune as well and it got it running almost perfect. I used manual tune to optimize idle. I barely touched accel enrichment (responsible for throttle response) and top end tune. Keno, The only thing I can see not being confirm with USCG on my setup is the ECU itself and I really don’t care. I strongly believe the USCG stamp is not what prevents the explosion it’s the regular high quality maintenance that really keeps you save. The Ford ECU is a exactly the same as an automotive ECU, at least I could not see any difference besides the software its running. Rosco, You are correct this is not even close to the Ford ECU but it does not and is not designed to go in between stock ECU and EFI. The MS3X is a complete standalone ECU that replaces the existing ECU. I have never heard anything about red and white serial numbers can you explain? Peter |
Posted By: AlfaDon
Date Posted: December-05-2019 at 5:24pm
|
I can't believe it's been 3 days and I haven't responded to the thread yet. I have a hard time logging in from my phone and so have to wait until I'm at home. Peter, I appreciate what you're doing and I'm going down much the same road except that it's taking me forever to get it done. I am using the Howell EFI O2 adapter with a wideband A/F sensor in one of my manifolds It's worked great for 2 seasons now and it's nice to have just to monitor the mixture. I built a new HP motor and wanted to make sure I didn't go lean. I also use a cheap anti-fouling elbow that I got on ebay. I believe it helps to keep the O2 sensor out of the steam stream. The idea of sequential spark sounds great although I've heard that batch fire is nearly as effective I also have the coil near plug set up using a modded Cam sensor from a Ford 4.3, as it's the same dist shaft diameter as the 351 dist. I had a friend weld up the sensor top to an old 351 dist base. There's also a guy online that makes them up just for this purpose. I struggled with the Microsquirt. I have a MS2 that I never used because of the fear of explosions. I also heard that they can be difficult to tune. I ended up going with a Holley HP ECU. This article says that they're marine approved but other components in an EFI system might not be. (https://www.efisystempro.com/efi-pro-hangout/custom-efi-configurations/converting-marine-engines-to-efi). I'm hoping the HP ECU's self tuning feature will take care if it. It's a potted ECU which takes care of sparks. If you're using all of the mechanical fuel lines and hardware from the GT40 setup I think you should be fine. I just bought the PCM Fuel Control Cell from Nautique parts on their Black Friday sale. One of the problems with the Fuel pump issues is that the fuel line from the tank can't be pressurized. It has to be a vacuum from a mechanical or electric fuel pump that needs to be within 12" of the motor. I believe with the FCC, I can return the extra fuel to the FCC, although if I have to run a return to the tank it will have already been done already by PCM, and I'm just following what has been CG approved. The benefit of the return line to the tank is that it cools the fuel much better than returning it to the FCC Don |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: December-05-2019 at 8:03pm
Since Peter has his ECU outside the engine compartment, the chances of it causing an explosion must be a little less than "slim to none" To me, I see no issues at all with his setup especially compared to some of the distributors, carburetors, fuel pumps and alternators that some people are using around here on CCF. PS for Peter, the red and white SN would be a Ski Nautique not serial numbers |
Posted By: burban65
Date Posted: December-05-2019 at 8:47pm
|
Silence from Pete (8122pbrainard) = concurrence?????? What are the odds he agrees with Keno on this one??? ------------- SRB |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: December-05-2019 at 8:55pm
Are you instigatin' or what?
|
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: December-05-2019 at 11:42pm
Yup, sounds like we do have an instigator. I'm not saying anything since I'm barely beyond a point set in a distributor.  ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: rosconole
Date Posted: December-06-2019 at 3:10am
You can manually change quite a bit , Its basically the same software that they run the Dominator, HP, systems etc. I messaged a fellow that has it on a twin turbo SBF in a little jet boat, he said the only hurdle he had to cross was changing the fueling tables below where the self tuning comes into play 160 degrees I think it is and there are different linkages you can get so the throttle blades open as a traditional carb, The opening of all 4 seemed to be a bit much out of the gate on a boat or rock crawler buggy. You can control timing through the software if you get the dual sync distributor. You can also set some limiting factors to keep burning it up. A knock sensor is a deal breaker. I think it has some open sensor ports if you wanted to ad one.
------------- 1989 ski nautique ,1991 barefoot nautique, 1993 Mustang Cobra 1998 5.0 Magazine shootout invitee |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: December-06-2019 at 7:17am
Don Somebody at some of those other companies obviously missed that memo or maybe they're slipping one by the USCG when they build their fuel injected boats/engines Take a look at let's say Mastercraft or Malibu with Indmar injected engines for a long time now. They cleverly hid that pump in the gas tank
|
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: December-06-2019 at 7:23am
Don't let Pete fool you, we've been kinda quietly working together on a kit to convert your gt40 engine back to points and carburetors. We're having trouble right now adapting the Carter YH's to a 351w manifold mostly because he has me working on the fuel side of things while he does the ignition side. |
Posted By: Peter6000
Date Posted: December-06-2019 at 10:30am
|
Sorry for the silence, unfortunately this forum is not compatible with Taptalk and I can’t get it to work on my phone in a comfortable way. Don, I have my O2 sensors in the adapter plate for 3 years now and they still work. I had to re-calibrate them once. Here is my experience with sequential fuel and spark, going from batch fire to full sequential fuel injection made a big difference in idle quality and throttle response. In the range between 2000 and 4000 rpm I didn’t really feel a difference but I was able to change my AFR from 14 to 14.6, without losing performance. Going to full sequential spark and eliminate the distributer had more impact, way better start up, engine is more responsive and runs super smooth I had to tune the fuel table down. Looking at the Holly setup I agree that the Megasquirt is more difficult and not build as well. My main reason 3 years ago to choose the MS was the extreme flexibility of the MS. I still think it’s very unlikely that it catches on fire it’s in a metal housing and fused with 5 Amp or so. The Fuel return on the GT40 goes from the regulator back to the high pressure pump and you have to have it or you pressure is going to be too high. I agree it would be better to run it back to the tank. As an alternative you could put a more modern fuel pump in the tank control it with the ECU and a fuel pressure sensor and get rid of the mechanical regulator. I don’t know if it would work without a return considering heat. Brings up the question do the newer boats with fuel pump in the tank still have a return line? |
Posted By: DHMcFadin
Date Posted: December-08-2019 at 3:27am
|
Hey Alpha, I am having my 99 GT40 rebuilt as we speak. I am turning the engine to a 408 with a holley dominator efi system and reusing the original gt40 intake for aesthetics. In regard to the Howell EFI 02 adapter, do these adapters fit standard PCM ford exhaust manifolds? It would be awesome if they do so I dont have to machine a set. Thanks! EDIT- I just realized these are only bungs, not adapter plates.
------------- 1999 Longhorn Nautique 1995 Nautique Super Sport https://www.instagram.com/longhorn_nautique/" rel="nofollow - https://www.instagram.com/longhorn_nautique/ |
Posted By: Peter6000
Date Posted: December-08-2019 at 2:46pm
|
DHMC, you right you can not use the buns, you cant weld on the exhaust, plus there is water cooling. You also cant use the adapters shown in post 1 there is no room to come our sideways on the right side the Intake is in the way on the left the flame arrestor. I found my adapters on ebay the seller first said he can get more but when i actually requested them he went silent. This is 3 years ago I believe I paid $200 or so. If you decide to have them machined somewhere I would post it here you might find a GT40 owners that are interested. Would drop the price for everybody. If you want to see pictures of mine go here. https://correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=42211 Peter |
Posted By: AlfaDon
Date Posted: December-21-2019 at 10:12pm
|
Hi McFadin The Howell adapters aren't bungs the way we typically think about them. They're designed to thread into the inner wall of the riser, and seal against the outer wall with an O-ring. Mine have worked great for 2 seasons now. At the time I bought them, the sandwich type wasn't available off the shelf like they are for the Mercruisers.
|
Posted By: DHMcFadin
Date Posted: December-21-2019 at 11:24pm
|
Thanks for the clarification. I ordered one Howell adapter. Also decided to ditch the PCM manifolds and risers and go with a 4" GLM exhaust kit. Should flow much better than the PCM's. One of the risers is at the machine shop as we speak! Thanks for everyones help explaining this to me! [QUOTE=AlfaDon] Hi McFadin The Howell adapters aren't bungs the way we typically think about them. They're designed to thread into the inner wall of the riser, and seal against the outer wall with an O-ring. Mine have worked great for 2 seasons now. At the time I bought them, the sandwich type wasn't available off the shelf like they are for the Mercruisers. ------------- 1999 Longhorn Nautique 1995 Nautique Super Sport https://www.instagram.com/longhorn_nautique/" rel="nofollow - https://www.instagram.com/longhorn_nautique/ |
Posted By: Footer 1952
Date Posted: February-09-2020 at 9:37pm
Hello Real Internal Combustion (on water) Engineers! I have yet to convert to EFI but want to. I can handle a wrench and yank a 454 and put the right bearings back in it.. I have taken the electical step to install electronic ignition as I hate (points, plugs condenser) etc even back to my 1970 VW Beetle!!! However I am worn out with holley 4160 issues. (yes I know that ethanol plays a part) Have paid a carb guy every 4 or 5 years to get me back there. Hey I wanna pull 4 barefooters without needing step off skis. My buddy with AN efi malibu can pull 5!!! OUCH! Anybody out there put EFI on a vintage 454??? Heck I don't know how you cover the mechanical fuel pump mounting hole?? Have googled and found for Marine... Holley EFI, Summit Racing, Mega Squirt, Affordable Fuel Injection, "Where Do I Begin"  ------------- Lets go footin' '86 Barefoot Nautique |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: February-09-2020 at 9:50pm
| Pass on efi. A properly tuned carbureted 454 can pull 6 deep if it’s propped down a little. Quick fuel offers a nice carb if your Holley is worn out... but it sounds like you are suffering with fuel quality issues. I’d go through the fuel system and find a better gas station. No issues with e10 here, 100+ hrs/season on my carb 454. |
Posted By: rosconole
Date Posted: February-09-2020 at 11:58pm
|
Any EFI system is far superior to any carburetor why do you think pretty much every car and boat on the planet is now?? Sure a carburetor may make ever so slight amount of more power but it is really small number in comparision to how many times your going to rebuild that unit over time, cold starts , Its not that difficult once you get it tuned and know the pitfalls your going to encounter to begin with . Most people are scared of it really because of the unknown or scared of change or maybe still own T- shirt from 1970 that still fits. Really the best option for the $ right now is the Holley sniper EFI it meets the coast guard standard and with the master kit you get everything you need with exception of plumbing a return (hardin marine has one for fill hose) and where your going to plumb 02 sensor. FAST efi is still an option but its pricey and requires more tuning and has alot less support than the Holley EFI systems. Having tuned on most of them out there I have seen the good bad and ugly. Sure Quickfuel is another option but your back in the same boat probably a few years down the road. Time to say goodby to cold starts and hesitation. I am tired of sitting at the dock waiting for 454 to warm up as well and I certainly don't have fuel quality issue and 351 was also most same way with a brand new holley carburetor. ------------- 1989 ski nautique ,1991 barefoot nautique, 1993 Mustang Cobra 1998 5.0 Magazine shootout invitee |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: February-10-2020 at 9:32am
Twist it any way you want the only reason for fuel injection is simple - EPA and California mandated air quality standards ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: Peter6000
Date Posted: February-10-2020 at 9:58am
|
I'm with rosconole I converted to MS3X 4 years ago from ford fuel inj. on a GT40 and had many carburetor's before, I never go back I choose the Ms3X because it offered the most options for tuning and control but it also requires more programming the Holley system is more plug and play. I think the EPA emission standards are good and protect us from unnecessary smog, And for sure not the only reason for fuel injection. Peter |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: February-10-2020 at 11:00am
Gary, I agree. I also feel there's nothing wrong with carbs. They have served me well for years and years without touching them.
John, Do you have a dwell meter? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Orlando76
Date Posted: February-10-2020 at 11:10am
|
Unless you’re running 6,000 ft in the morning and sea level in the evening I see no reason to convert to EFI. Yeah I have trouble with carbs every 4-5 years so I just replace with a new one and before my coffee gets cold I’m back to running. A new $750 Holley 4160 “calibrated” for SBF from Summit works out to $187 a year, I feel that’s reasonable enough. I’ve never been a fan of rebuilding carb’s. A properly tuned carb starts is as easy as using toilet paper so I’m confused as to where they’re “hard to start”. And EFI or not I wouldn’t plan on pulling up a skier until temps 160 which usually happens by the time we get the vest on. ------------- Please support The Cystic Fibrosis Foundation 1976 Ski Nautique 351 Escort 1993 Ski Nautique purple and black 351 HO PCM |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: February-10-2020 at 11:28am
Holy petrol batman, all the carb guys just spit out their coffee. LOL, A carb that old acting up probably just needs a cleaning and a new gasket set. I see your cost point but that's a little extreme for me. |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: February-10-2020 at 11:47am
| I find bolting up a new carb and having the engine run well extremely satisfying We have had few issues with good running carbs unless they sucked up water or debris. We bought a new boat in 2003 with a carb and I don't regret not getting efi at all. |
Posted By: Orlando76
Date Posted: February-10-2020 at 11:57am
I have a few 4160’s to sell. Very lightly used, may just need cleaning and gaskets. $200 each. Now I’ve got my annual cost down to $110 year. That’s probably equal to what guys pay for seafoak type additives and nonE fuel per year. ------------- Please support The Cystic Fibrosis Foundation 1976 Ski Nautique 351 Escort 1993 Ski Nautique purple and black 351 HO PCM |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: February-10-2020 at 12:11pm
|
I think some finally discard their pos fram cartridge filter and install something that actualy functions and clean their tank and replace the hoses and say see, efi fixed it ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: February-10-2020 at 12:12pm
Now I need to clean up all the coffee!! I remember rebuilding my YH's on the 312. The engine ran great but I thought that after 40 years without touching them it was time for rebuilding. Well, the 312 ran the same it did before and BTW still started great too. A couple pumps of the accelerator and she is running. EFI???? Gee, maybe it's time I rebuild the carb on the 66 year old model B? Is there a EFI system I can use on a 4 cylinder? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Footer 1952
Date Posted: March-21-2020 at 5:31pm
|
Pete, Sorry for the long time to answer. Covid 19 gonna give me some time to dig into these issues Ive been battling. Looked for my dwell meter but then I remembered tossing it likely 2007 when I put EI on the BFN and owned no cars without EI. I have never traded a car and with the exception of exhaust work (I'm an ugly welder) have never paid a $$ on auto service fees. Drive em' till they are uneconomic to fix. Like donateing them to a charity for the tax value. Less haggling when buying a car. Did clutches, ball joints, half shafts, brakes etc etc. Bought my BFN (my first inboard) in 2004.(skied rather shallow lakes B4 1996 so wanted an outboard with power trim) Early on after buying it I had to crank extensively when cold but determined that choke plate was getting hung up on underside of flame arrestor. Now when cold I remove arrestor to confirm plate is fully closed to start. By 2007 was having long cranking required for starting when warm after shutting it off a few minutes between skiers. A good ski nautique friend told me he had a stars and stripes mastercraft with a holley 4 barrel and he had issues like mine. He told me he bought a 2nd carb and replaced and rebuilt his every season after that and never had another problem. In 2007 I took the carb to a seasoned auto mechanic (am not good with TINY parts and can't live with a boat not available) and a skiDim rebuild kit and it started with a few cranks warm and cold intil 2016. From 2016 to 2019 I'd dump a can of sea foam every other week when long cranking starting returned and no issues (frequency increasing as the months went by). Again late summer 2019 I had issues starting it when warm (but not when cold) Took carb back to my rebuilder and problem again solved. I have experimented with gas from a turnpike vacinity high volume convenience store to the local small convenience store that is closest to home. Can't say I see a difference. Have changed fuel filters 3 times. Replaced all fuel lines with ethanol friendly hosing somewhere in that time period. It has rarely "instant started" like a fuel injected engine (or like any car I have owned carbureted or FI). Hence my slight dismay. I'm always able to start it but my wife "will not take the boat out by herself". My adult son would not take it out without me first starting it this past summer. Am sure a dwell meter can be found on ebay!! What do I do with it??? Since I have EI. John ------------- Lets go footin' '86 Barefoot Nautique |
Posted By: Footer 1952
Date Posted: March-21-2020 at 5:46pm
TRBenj I'm running a 14RH15 now and at 42 MPH am at 3800 RPM.(manual says 3600 continuous MAX) No problem for normal 1 or 2 minute BF runs but have started sking the Buckethead Barefoot Endurance Race. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRuLF0QTXb8&t=18s Now I have 38 miles at semicontinuous high RPM. A concern in the back of my head!! John  ------------- Lets go footin' '86 Barefoot Nautique |
Posted By: Footer 1952
Date Posted: March-21-2020 at 5:55pm
Gary, I have done some EFI googling and did find some info that emissions are the big benefit, and that HP or low end torque is not really improved. However "instant starting" for me and anyone running my boat would be reassuring. John ------------- Lets go footin' '86 Barefoot Nautique |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: March-21-2020 at 5:57pm
I can hardly wait to hear Pete's answer since he's the one that brought it up
|
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: March-21-2020 at 6:57pm
|
Oooh John I encourage you to reconsider your apprehensions to rippems and let that thing spin. You are leaving a lot of performance on the table and as far as longevity and efficiency it can be argued your setup is counterproductive to that as well Hang with us and we should get all your issues addressed ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: Footer 1952
Date Posted: March-21-2020 at 8:12pm
|
So Tom, You're sayin 3600 RPM Bogus?? Surely the Wolfpack is way ahead of me! %20" rel="nofollow - https://www.google.com/search?q=wolfpack+barefoot+boat&sxsrf=ALeKk02IifvIE1OWcGjz0eCMB4v9LHmg3g:1584828676751&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=n_Rf8EM69el31M%253A%252C6wrMasVmayWIIM%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kSasx9ZwPVnJLQR6le6AZB62rHknQ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi4z7ryyqzoAhW3lHIEHbUQBY8Q9QEwCXoECAcQBQ#imgrc=n_Rf8EM69el31M: Enlighten Me!! John ------------- Lets go footin' '86 Barefoot Nautique |
Posted By: nubf14
Date Posted: June-04-2020 at 1:53pm
|
I just finished my conversion (Holley Sniper EFI.) The first day on the lake was 6/3/2020 will keep everyone posted. The hardest part was the O2 sensor. I found this on eBay and was able to redrill all holes with 3/8 and make it fit perfectly. https://www.ebay.com/i/222482543306" rel="nofollow - https://www.ebay.com/i/222482543306 EFI installed https://photos.app.goo.gl/bRgMZNWoRFMbyMre7" rel="nofollow - https://photos.app.goo.gl/bRgMZNWoRFMbyMre7 I have to remove the manual fuel pump this week (left as a backup plan just in case the EFI install failed). I purchased as a marine kit from Holley but never got an answer back about the fuel pump being USCG approved. That is the only outstanding item of the install. If I find out unapproved I will buy a USCG pump. BTW runs way better than a carb but mine was in need of replacement ($735 vs $1235). Next up is DUI distributor but that is another season. 1986 CC Martinique (351W RH) |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: June-04-2020 at 3:00pm
|
John! My regrets missing your response,! it must have rolled under my view back in March! a few of us have spent lots to time in 454 boats and hearing them sing for a long tome, so a 15 pith prop is leaving a lot on the table. I know you have endurance in mind, but just be aware there is a point of diminishing returns and nothing is free,. RPMs itself wont hurt it.. Consider this....pick any loading, speed etc.the same amount energy had to get expended over time to do the same amount of work whether you go high rpm or low rpms. In the low rpm high pitch example, this means fewer power pulses per distance traveled, however each power pulse has to have more energy. therefore lower manifold vacuum, and higher side loads on the pistons. Also, there is a fixed power delivery available at each rpm. a 390HP engine 5000 may only have 230 available to you at 3600 rpm, that just wont pull 4-5 footers well. higher pitch and high rippems means less energy needed per power pulse, higher manifold vacuum, and more power available if you give it more throttle, read responsiveness. it really doesn't same much fuel and isnt that hard on the engine.. One could argue easier. I think efi wont fix any dullness, it a gearing issue. EFI wont give you 400 hp at 3600 to pull 4-5 footers. Only forced induction can do that. let her rip! we can consult on the carb issues ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: rosconole
Date Posted: June-04-2020 at 3:51pm
|
Interested in how it runs under 160 degrees where the learn mode open /closed loop starts typically Have you had it under load on lake yet? Pretty much any drop in efi walbro style pump will be USCG cert. the in line probably should be , Probably depends on where you mount it really. Glad to see it running! ------------- 1989 ski nautique ,1991 barefoot nautique, 1993 Mustang Cobra 1998 5.0 Magazine shootout invitee |
Posted By: nubf14
Date Posted: June-05-2020 at 1:51pm
|
Good day on the lake (6/4/2020) and 160 is hard in my boat. I have to run about 3400 for 10 mins to get 160 or greater (no skiers today). It starts well (better than carb) but is still working on cold idle. IAC is working to hard but EFI table is not complete. Also, little stubble from neutral to forward/reverse. I have to advance that fuel curve so it does not stubble. Once in gear, best throttle response I have ever had (full to idle or idle to full). I do have to adjust the carb spring as a little too strong and rolls back the tach/speed I set. My feeling is 15-25 hours and should be running like a new boat. So review so far: cost  ease of installation performance I have read a lot about O2 sensors going bad so the jury is out on that piece of equipment. ------------- Darrell Sanderlin 1986 CC Martinique Lake Wylie, SC |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: June-05-2020 at 2:28pm
I don’t understand this. Why?? |
Posted By: nubf14
Date Posted: June-05-2020 at 2:55pm
|
I don't know either been trying to figure it out. I think my thermostat may be sticking (full open). I will know better after the weekend. Never worried that much about temp before as long as it was not hot. ------------- Darrell Sanderlin 1986 CC Martinique Lake Wylie, SC |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: June-05-2020 at 5:38pm
| Would have to be I would think if it’s even in there. |
Posted By: rosconole
Date Posted: June-05-2020 at 6:23pm
|
I saw one of the rocker crawler guys used something similar to this linkage to not have such a hard out of the gate throttle with all 4 butterfly's open..https://www.efisystempro.com/sniper-efi-progressive-linkage-kit ------------- 1989 ski nautique ,1991 barefoot nautique, 1993 Mustang Cobra 1998 5.0 Magazine shootout invitee |
Posted By: nubf14
Date Posted: June-08-2020 at 1:52pm
|
The thermostat is 140 so ordered a new 160. Reset timing to 8 BTDC and boat is running better than ever (manual said 6 I was running 10 before). VERY pleased so far with my Sniper EFI upgrade. Also able to run ethanol gas now so saving about 45 cents per gallon in my area vs non-ethanol. I have heard some that run E85 but I am staying away. Excellent throttle response and idle/full/idle never misses a beat. New timing and lower idle setting have gotten rid of the in-gear stumble. I am still going to install the new linkage to reduce the rear butterfly open as I don't need all that for my engine under 300 hp. https://photos.app.goo.gl/Ro9NqAhEEcS2RgmT9" rel="nofollow - O2 Profile Side https://photos.app.goo.gl/382PHCPexbz5CYPv9" rel="nofollow - O2 Front Had to use treated rods in the rear because I did not have enough room for the longer bolts in the rear holes once the 1-inch plate was installed. ------------- Darrell Sanderlin 1986 CC Martinique Lake Wylie, SC |
Posted By: Peter6000
Date Posted: June-08-2020 at 2:32pm
|
welcome to the world of fuel injection, I'm happy to hear that you did not get scared by all the comments fro our carburetor fans. Peter |
Posted By: rosconole
Date Posted: June-08-2020 at 3:06pm
|
You probably already saw this about the linkage https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ap2tdGnrmxw&t=651s Just make sure you have E85 compatible PTFE lined fuel hoses as well. ------------- 1989 ski nautique ,1991 barefoot nautique, 1993 Mustang Cobra 1998 5.0 Magazine shootout invitee |
Posted By: swaterca
Date Posted: June-02-2022 at 12:55pm
|
Good morning...can you describe your setup. I am thinking of doing the same think on a 93 Nautique , I have modified the engine with a aggressive CAM and Al heads and cannot get it tuned with the holley. Did you put riser blocks in for the O2 sensors? Thank you, Brian
|
Posted By: nubf14
Date Posted: June-02-2022 at 12:59pm
|
Yes I did the riser blocks to fit. https://photos.app.goo.gl/9CL63sBR3Y11SQTJ7 I had to custom make the rear bolts (treaded rod) as you don't have clearance for bolt.
------------- Darrell Sanderlin 1986 CC Martinique Lake Wylie, SC |
Posted By: swaterca
Date Posted: June-02-2022 at 5:48pm
|
Would it be possible for you to send a drawing of the riser block? Did you do anything special to try and protect the O2 sensor? How have the O2 sensors held up? Do you require an extra fuel pump, included in package? Do you change any linkages? Thank you for your help. Brian
|
Posted By: swaterca
Date Posted: June-02-2022 at 5:49pm
|
Sorry did you buy the riser blocks? |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: June-02-2022 at 5:58pm
Link from earlier in his post
https://www.ebay.com/itm/222482543306" rel="nofollow - https://www.ebay.com/itm/222482543306 |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: June-02-2022 at 7:13pm
swaterca, that link takes you to an adapter for Volvo Penta manifolds, but if you go to their website (Performance Fuel Injection Systems) you can find an adapter that's for PCM 351w manifolds,if you're doing something with a 351w PCM engine. Here's a link to the right adapter plate http://pfisys.com/store-3/#!/02-Plate-for-Pleasure-Craft-Marine-PCM/p/246014889/category=42654440" rel="nofollow - link Not really knowing what you're planning to do, you might want to surf around their store on the website They have complete marine TBI kits too.
|
Posted By: nubf14
Date Posted: June-02-2022 at 7:43pm
|
I used the VP and just drilled the holes a little bigger. Still using the same O2 sensor. Have about 110 hours on it now. I also upgraded my distributor right after the EFI so cannot honestly say which made the biggest difference. Starts and runs like a new boat and I burn general gas (87) and have not tweaked it at all. ------------- Darrell Sanderlin 1986 CC Martinique Lake Wylie, SC |