Debt
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URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=22889
Printed Date: June-25-2024 at 11:35pm
Topic: Debt
Posted By: OverMyHead
Subject: Debt
Date Posted: July-31-2011 at 12:01am
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It is funny how when the boat season arrives politics goes to the back burner. We have some important decisions being made on our National debt and our debt cieling. It will come as no surprise I think we have a debt problem, not an income problem. I dotn see any of the proposed solutions making a dent in this problem. I am glad the young republicans are sticking to their campain promises but the Senate and our pres have become the party of no. It is so clear to me that you can not survive a budget that relies on 40 percent of your spending being on credit. Why can democrats (and many republicans) figure this out. Historically the US govermnment has collected taxes at the rate of 19% of GDP (It does not matter the rates, that is what we collect) to me that is where the budget cap should be. I heard we currently are spending 25% of GDP and heading to 40% in the next few years. I see the situation as democrats acting like spoiled kids used to getting what they want and never considering how hard others work to provide for them. this forces republicans to be the fed up parents and finally put their foot down and just say it is going to stop. Of course the spoiled will complain vigorously when they do not get what they are used to, But complaining the loudest does not make them right, just loud. ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Replies:
Posted By: TX Foilhead
Date Posted: July-31-2011 at 12:55am
| That's why we need to keep voting more of those kind of people in. Unfortunately I can't do anymore, all the people I get to vote for see it that way as well so all I can do is to help send them back. I think a 3rd party would be a good thing, but I'd rather see a republican majority, and then do that to get rid of some of the RINO's if they can't be taken down in the primaries. If it's tried next election I think Obama gets a second term, and that just can't happen, this mess is going to be hard enough to fix as it is and both sides are responsible for it. |
Posted By: davidg
Date Posted: July-31-2011 at 1:06am
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I think we need the balanced budget amendment to be passed in this country. Until that happens, this deficiet spending won't stop. I also think that everyone should pay tax, and not just the top 50% of earners. Everybody in this country needs to have some skin in the game.
I think the only way we are ever going to see REAL change is to continue to vote in Tea Party types, and take the Senate, and White House. We made big gains in last Novembers elections, but, you can't do it in just one election. Its also very interesting and encouraging how the national discussion and focus has been on our debt and deficeit spending. Encouraging signs the country is waking up to this mess. |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: July-31-2011 at 2:24am
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It is good to see the dialog but the general impression from the media is that it the debt cieling leading us into default, not the spending. Obama gets away with saying the republicans are extremeistss and need to join him in the "middle". He also gets away with saying this is Bushes problem when he has deficit spent as much in his first three years as george did in 8 (which was way to much also). Its very frustrating. I wish we could vote out our media. ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: davidg
Date Posted: July-31-2011 at 2:47am
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The press may influence some, but, I have to think that most Americans know what the real score is and that the "accomplished media" is in the bag for any democrat/liberal. They sure didn't stop the landslide election last November that swept the Republicans back into control of the House.
I believe the "Debt/Deficeit Spending" will be what the 2012 election will be based on. Its very obvious Obama and the libs are only giving it lip service and have no intention of getting this situation under control. It will take another big Coservative sweep in 2012 to change the situation. |
Posted By: ononewheel
Date Posted: July-31-2011 at 5:07am
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Really?
It is interesting to me the above posters try to make the debt crisis the democrats fault. For the record because I am sure it will be mentioned, I am not a democrat. The debt ceiling was raised 8 times under Bush, and now, right now, is the time republicans have chosen as the time they are going to put up a fight, with the nations economy at stake. Why could we not pass a increase, and then republicans could campaign on not allowing it to happen again? I cannot understand how anybody would expect Grandma and Grandpa to pay for the nations problems by cutting Social Security, and not expecting some othe rich Corps. to pay the fair share with record profits. Unless you are one of the Koch brothers or have a bank account like them, you might be being fooled by the likes of the former republican party. Are they fighting to provide a better life for your children, or just trying to ensure the rich get richer and make sure Obama does not get reelected? By the looks of this fight they have picked, republicans don't have a chance of getting the White House. On the same issue the Bush tax cuts are set to expire and the Republicans are so busy doing nothing with the debt, have they forgotten about them? That alone will provide 4 trillion. |
Posted By: davidg
Date Posted: July-31-2011 at 12:05pm
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OnOneWheel.....I am surprised you didn't include the Democrat's video of Paul Ryan rolling Grandma off the cliff in her wheel chair.
You don't give much description of who you are, or where your from in your profile, but, I suspect you are a Madison WI liberal based on one of your posts. Thats fine. Love a good debate, and its always fun/interesting to have a liberal perspective. I think you pretty much hit all the liberal talking points..... - tax the rich - the Republicans want to hurt grandma and grandpa - dems are "fighting" for a better life your children I agree whole-heartedly with you on one thing, it wasn't just the Dems that got us into this mess. The republicans are not blameless. They sure did go along with some big spending in the past. Bush is a decent man, but, he wasn't near conservative enough for me. However, the key point is, with the Tea Party Republicans being swept in back in November, the discussion is now changing to one of getting this nations debt and over-spending under control to keep the USA from becoming Greece....which is the path we are on now. Paul Ryan (Congressman from Wisconsin) had a plan to try to save all the entitlements for us, our kids and grandkids. Obama tossed him right under the bus for it. Yet, he has no plan of his own. We need a balanced budget amendment to be passed to solve this nations over-spending habit. |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: July-31-2011 at 12:37pm
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Bush and Obama went out for a steak and lobster dinner and Bush skated on the bill ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: July-31-2011 at 12:49pm
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no one ever mentions the 3.7 trillion on Bushes war, im not anti-Bush, this *************** fell into Obama's lap along with the blame, we all know it was a train wreck waiting to happen ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: TX Foilhead
Date Posted: July-31-2011 at 1:48pm
| They also don't mention that Obama sounded just like the Republicans do now that last time they voted on an increase. The money spent for the war will stop at some point, there's so many other things now that won't. I wish that I had at least a 7% increase in my budget every year like they do when I said I wasn't spending anymore. |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: July-31-2011 at 2:06pm
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you'll adapt. We went to war for oil, but didnt get any oil. you been to the grocery store lately? fcn gallon of milk was 4.59 wtf
people laughed at the thought of the y2k bug, not so many laughing with the thoughts of an economic collapse...it really is feasible that the economy could collapse, being an American we're numb to this stuff and have a look the other way attitude and it will all work out. we've discussed the subtle changes that go un-noticed but are catching up....its happening in Greece, Cleveland went into default in the 80's. you really cant say this is a conspiracy theory because it is in front of our eyes happening, like i said were numb and have a "this cant happen to us" attitude ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: July-31-2011 at 2:06pm
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all the debt cieling is doing is pro-longing the enevitable ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: TX Foilhead
Date Posted: July-31-2011 at 2:16pm
| Which is why we need to turn the ship around, unfortunately it is a ship and not a CC so we can't just whip it around. |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: July-31-2011 at 2:19pm
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if you were put into power, what would you do? ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: skicat2001
Date Posted: July-31-2011 at 2:22pm
It is funny to listen to some people to what people think and we need for the country. Last night, I about wanted to shoot the tv with a .50caliber  when Nancy Peloski and all the leftys put the blame on us in the House.It is a repeated process. They cant seem to grasp the BIG picture here in the Senate. Blanaced budget would be ok, but with the liberals cashing checks and this outrageuous spendinng has got to be stopped. They put us here and they have had plenty of time to
fix the economy. Bottom line is I could write a long paper about this bll***************, but repbulicans want tax cuts, and cut spending over a long period of time, 5 years, they have presented 2 bills that cuts spending and will help us get out of debit over periods of time. Demi's want to spend more, they uterally stupidly do not get, QUIT SPENDING MY MONEY!! This will be the second time Obama and company have raised the debt ceiling and asked for another blank check. We cant pay our bills, and you want to borrow more money.... WHAT FKING IDIOTS!! More debit, More debit, more ***************kg debit!! All they want to cut is old peoples money, Social security, AARP, and veterns money. There just idiots, shows who head screwed on right, the House does, and Senate are just plain igonorant. I hope we can hold on till 2012  cause Obama socialist, communist ways are doing a hell of good of Breaking the CAPATALIST SYSTEM!! What communist do?? Make one collapse, and implement theres. NO MORE GOVERMENT!!!
I can not wait for 2012 in November!!  ------------- 1985 CC 2001-SOLD Lee Michael Johnson |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: July-31-2011 at 2:22pm
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trying to put a band-aid on a levy leak, the structure is slowly disinegrating around the hole ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: July-31-2011 at 2:24pm
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you righties should ring Clinton and get some advice ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: July-31-2011 at 2:27pm
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ski, you always act like this *************** just started happening when Obama took his oath ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: skicat2001
Date Posted: July-31-2011 at 2:32pm
Eric 
Economics 101 Cause I know liberal ways bro.. They are for big goverment, and support unconstitutional ways. I am opposite, complete opposite! Hate the goverment and beleive in the constitution of the United States of America. I liked Clinton, he did some good, but he is the reason housing market is in the tank. It will take 10 yrs for it to come back, of a fiscal polocicy to make it bomb again. ------------- 1985 CC 2001-SOLD Lee Michael Johnson |
Posted By: skicat2001
Date Posted: July-31-2011 at 2:34pm
What part of Quadripled the debit allready, and asking for more do you not get???  ------------- 1985 CC 2001-SOLD Lee Michael Johnson |
eric lavine wrote:Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: July-31-2011 at 2:41pm
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maybe if we said, im not a democrat, im not a republican...Im a fcn American.
war aint cheap ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: July-31-2011 at 2:50pm
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I was proud to talk to this guy a couple of weeks ago, he mentioned in the past that the company he worked for was on the borderline of shutting its doors, well management came to them and said the only way we can sustaine is by salary reductions across the board...obviously the ants wanted to start a revolution and throw the I deserve every dime i make card out there....The company wouldve closed, if the ants didnt agree to the reduction, doors are still open.
Moral of the story, they wer'nt bull ***************ting and sacrifices need to be made and it starts there....not in big government, this mindset starts at me and you. When 08 hit, i got hit hard, and the only way i could sustaine and keep the doughnuts flowing was by skipping paychecks, i still put in my usual 60 but no pay. did i like it? no not really, but it was something i had to do ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: July-31-2011 at 3:20pm
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So much to say to so many. To those trying to blame bush ( and saying I dont) bush had an average deficit of 625 billion a year for eight years. this is bad, but it happend under a boom period when it appeared the country had some money to spare. Many of us disagreed vocally about the prescription drug plan and deficit spending but he was a big tent guy and willing to compromise with the dems and spend big . we shaould have collectively put our foot down then but everybody was busy growing there own debt, watching therir home values and retiremnet increase so it did not seem like a big deal. Obama has Ruled over a recession, starting with a housing crisis created by the policies of fredie and fannie that he fully supported as a senator. During this recession when the americans are keenly aware of their finaces he has grown the deficit at a rate of 1.3 trillion a year, more than double the rate that bush gets criticised for. Obama spoke and voted against bush increasing the debt limit and campained on cutting the deficit in half in two years if elected. It is time to do the right thing and cut off the supply to our spending addicts in Washinton. unfortunatly addicts will do anything including begging , borrowing ,stealing and lieing to maintain their habits. Not good group to have in charge. ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: July-31-2011 at 3:39pm
Repeal Obama care, cut spending to 2007 levls by a equal percentage cut to all government spending across the board. then freeze at that level till the deficit is reduced to a few trillion. Institute flat tax for tax fairness. ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: TX Foilhead
Date Posted: July-31-2011 at 3:44pm
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So why can't the Gov't do the same, that's what we need. If they were to just hold spending where it is we'd eventually get it taken care of, if they cut it it would happen even faster.
I've been listening to AM radio lately on my iPhone, you get a bunch of PSA's where there are normally commercials on the radio. Some of the programs they're talking about would make your head explode. If I can't make my house payment and the bank wants to forclose, I can get a $50000 loan to help. If I use it to make my payments for the next 2 years then it gets forgiven. It's crap like that's helping to keep things messed up. If I start skipping payments on my mortgage to qualify then I'll get enough money handed to me would pay more than half the balance. Listing to that kinda stuff is so frustrating it makes menwant to throw the phone out the window, but I haven't heard of the program that will replace it yet. |
Posted By: davidg
Date Posted: July-31-2011 at 3:45pm
Clinton my arse!!! I would vote for Al Capone for President before I would vote for Obama and his failed Socialist Policies. Clinton would be a god send. Its all about the ENTITLEMENTS guys. Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid have got to be brought under control and made sustainable for us and future generations. You simply can't keep spending more than you take in. What will the "debt ceiling" be in 20 years?.....One hundred kazillion kabillion trillion dollars? If we can't afford that, just raise it again. |
Posted By: Whitfield
Date Posted: July-31-2011 at 4:02pm
My simple mind says: Term limits (across the board) Flat tax ~ I would almost welcome the true crash of a 20's style depression. No more of the financial shell game / politics / soft landing crap. Hit the reset button and let the true rebuilding begin. but I am about 25 yrs form retirement. If I were there now I might see things differntly. ------------- Michael .... I'm the black sheep ~ 1984 Dixie 299 Super Skier (350 Chev PCM / counter rotation / Velvet drive) Open Bow. |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: July-31-2011 at 4:12pm
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How about no eligability for for re-election if the budget is not balanced. ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: July-31-2011 at 4:22pm
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I have seen a 40 percent reduction in income from my full time job in the last two years. This is how I have handled it. I have not asked for a raise from my employer (taxed the rich). I have worked in my own side buisiness on the weekends (Grew my economy), I do not have cable tv, go out to movies, rarely dine out. (cut my budget). I supplement my income when absolutley necessary with savings from times of budget surplus when I acted responsible and did not raise my budget just because I could. I will not use my credit cards or home equity line of credit because any money paid in interest comes out of my spending budget(reduced my credit limit), and I have been forced to somewhat reduce "entitlement spending" (charity) to make ends meet for the time being. I do not expect anything from my government that I would not do myself. ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: July-31-2011 at 4:40pm
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that 40% seems to be a number that comes up often.
we must realize Mike that there are major scale monopolies happening in the HC system, you get pissed when you hear the government spends 400 bucks on a claw hammer, i just came in from outside sitting with my neighbor, he is 67ish and just had a catarac removed from his eye, a 20 minute outpatient surgery and he showed me the bill, when all done and said he is responsible for 20% of the bill....now for the total cost 9600.00 bucks, he has to come up with 1920.00 bucks and you and me foot the rest of the bill.....so no, we dont need to reform HC, just keep paying...me and you ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: July-31-2011 at 4:47pm
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Eric, the govt accounting office just came out stating Obama care will increase the cost of health care, not reduce it. How does increasing the cost help? ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: Tom351
Date Posted: July-31-2011 at 6:40pm
Actually they charged the bill on a nearly maxed out credit card- and Obama has an obscenly HUGE house (3x the size of Bush's obscenly huge house) so he cannot make both the mortgage payment and the credit card payment with his income- And rather than downsizing to a more affordable house he is saying "If we dont increase my credit line I will not be able to pay my mortgage....or if I pay the mortgage then I will miss my credit card payment and either will show up on my credit score so I need to borrow more to preserve my credit score.....Oh, and I want to make some additions to my house so I need to borrow for that as well" Time to downsize to a smaller house....... |
Posted By: harddock
Date Posted: July-31-2011 at 7:33pm
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Cut everyones budget 5% to free up some money to cover bills (eliminating the need to raise the debtceiling) Then go over the books dept by dept ady by day and cut out all the bullsh** funding, overpayments, Get the IRS to re write the tax codes, eliminating those loop holes. No need to kill SS or Medi care just fix the programs.
Give each congress person 3-4 depts to fix. You are not elegible to run for reelection until your debt of yor dept is fixed. No speeches, no blame, just pencils with big erasers. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4487" rel="nofollow - 1998 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: July-31-2011 at 9:48pm
If this theory were true dairy queen could become instantly rich by charging ten bucks a cone, "lets see , we sell a million cones a year, we bump up our prices by 8 bucks a cone , and we are quareenteed to make an extra 8 million!" or will people go elsewhere for icecream or just give it up. The left convieniently forgets that the bush tax cuts for the "rich" resulted in a net increase of about 400 billion (This is from memory) in federal tax recievables. There is no direct corralation to increasing taxes and increasing revenue. Businesses and individuals change their behaviors based on tax rates. You dont get the kind of money the "rich" have by blindly making decisions. People look at the return on their investment and they think years ahead. If they are considering building a factory they look at what their money can earn from other sources,such as stocks,gold, bonds..., If they cannot exceed the rate of return from these sources they will not bother. If you increase the tax rates of profits from the evil business by a few percent and that drops the rate of return below other investments the factory does not get built, the govenment does not collect its cut and a few hundred jobs never get created. The same goes for how hard a company work to decrease its tax burden. If they feel they are unfairly burdrened by taxes it is easy to justify unfair tactics to lower them, or just plain moving the revenue centers to another country with lower tax and regulation burdens. Tax revenue has historically incresed everytime rates were lowered, it worked for Bush, for Reagen, and even Kennedy. If you want to punish the rich at the cost of lower government revenues you can raise taxes. if you want to increase government revenues you need to lower taxes, grow the economy and make it up on volume. It works every time. ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: July-31-2011 at 9:53pm
By the way the republicans have been very busy having their plans to cut the debt rejected by the President and senate. Perhaps you heard some things about a balanced budget amendment, cut cap and balance. Not exactly nothing. The Pres has done nothing but scare seniors and say no to anything that might help the situation. ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: davidg
Date Posted: July-31-2011 at 10:40pm
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Obama has spent money like a drunken sailor for the past 2 1/2 years. Then, in the month when we have the debt debate fight, he comes out for the cameras and says things like....."We must balance our budget" or "We must reduce spending". What a joke!! He flaps his jaws A LOT, but, does the absolute opposite.
Like Charles Krautheimer says...."Don't listen to what Obama says, watch what he does". |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: August-01-2011 at 10:21am
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so if we drop a pubby in there in 012, you guys gonna shift blame or just say Obma did it? I'll remember these days, so watch what you write....by then im sure I'll figure out how to quote ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: August-01-2011 at 10:25am
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mike, that same procedure 10 years ago was 2 grand, if that ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: August-01-2011 at 10:48am
Apparently we can blame obama for at least three years because he is still blaming Bush. I said it became Obama, Polosi, and Rieds economy the day Obama was elected,and I saw sweeping changes in spending patterns and doubling the rate of deficit spending. It partially became the new houses economy when they were sworn in two years later. I was dissapointed when Boener caved on last years spending bill, but now the arguments are starting to resonate and this last agreement has some promise. It does not go nearly far enough but we are heading in a better direction. Eric, you never answered my guestion, how does Obama care increasing the overall cost of health care as a percentage of GDP faster than it was increasing with out it help the situation? We were sold it as a cost reducing measure. The same report predicts public uproar when we start to see hopitals and clinics closing as Drs leave the field due to reduced reimbursments. At the same time we will add 30 million new insured to be treated by these fewer physicians leaving long wait times for MRIs, surgerys... and rationing of care to keep the cost increases minimalised. How is this better? ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: August-01-2011 at 12:38pm
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Is medicare medicaid not a federally funded program? i love the new birth control legislation...ones in charge a starting to see population increase...october we will surpass 7 billion on this rock
first off you set guidelines and make a catarac surgury a flat price, not whatever you feel, standardize these pracitces, for god sakes in other contries doctors are not put on a pedestal and considered next to god. a captain of a boat has more pull i dont even know what the cost of these programs are, but at 9600.00 per surgery, i would imagine its in the trillions.....you guys yack about less spending but.............................you need the regulation, ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: August-01-2011 at 12:41pm
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foriegn Doctors are more than happy to come over here and make low 6 digit incomes ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: August-01-2011 at 12:44pm
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what? are the doctors leaving their field to pursue a job at the 7-11. there are doctors all over this contry working for the VA hospitals below the 6 digit income ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: 75 Tique
Date Posted: August-01-2011 at 1:59pm
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Math Trick
First - Get the complete text of President Obama's budget/debt-extention plan. Then the text of Harry Reid's plan as well. Then - Assign every letter a number A=1, B=2, C=3, etc. and add all the numbers in each plan. Finally - Add Obama's total and Reid's total. Then ask someone to think of a number between one and ten. They will always pick a number greater than the final Obama/Reid total. Nobody is sure why this works. The magic of math I guess. ------------- _____________ “So, how was your weekend?” “Well, let me see…sun burn, stiff neck, screwed up back, assorted aches and pains….yup, my weekend was great, thanks for asking.” |
Posted By: skicat2001
Date Posted: August-01-2011 at 3:22pm
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Bush spent in his last year 2.1 trillion, and this year alone Obama has spent over 6.0 trillion dollars and sking for more.
We want straight cuts across the board, way it should be, economy strives on that. Rich make more money, hhhhhhmmmmmmmm and they hire people. Damb Obama rama almost got away with they wanted to cut Medicare, Medicade, Social security and Veterans pay for a month or 2 because we cant pay our bills. And now they want to borrow more... Geeezzzz P.S You save money, you save money, you save money, U dont freeking borrow more to pay bills. Freeking igornant... ------------- 1985 CC 2001-SOLD Lee Michael Johnson |
Posted By: Jllogan
Date Posted: August-01-2011 at 5:42pm
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They all suck, I hate politics/politicians. Everything they do is so impractical (both sides). They are out of touch with reality. All they care about is votes and making the other guy look bad. We should have 2 term limits on all congressional seats. I hate the fact that the guy with most money always wins. No wonder we cant get anything real accomplished. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5792&sort=&pagenum=1" rel="nofollow - 1986 Ski Nautique 2001 |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: August-01-2011 at 8:24pm
Eric, you have still not answered my question. We got more regulation than anyone ONE person can really comprehend with obama care, it was supposed to reduce costs but it was just realeased by the government that it will increase the costs at a greater rate than if it would have been left to the private sector. HOW DOES THIS NEW REGULATION HELP???? ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: August-02-2011 at 3:21am
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I see now Obama care has mandated birth control and breast pumps be covered by all insurance policies, with no co-pay. It is amazing how these new regulations are driving down the cost of insurance. If you have High BP you have to pay a co-pay for meds that are needed to insure your health, why are recreation oriented meds free? Sorry Eric but this is not the way to reduce healthcare costs. They say doing the same thing over and over but expecting a different result is the definition of insanity, But we turn again and again to the government to solve our problems, with no criteria for success. We have been fighting the war on poverty since the 40s with no change in the percent of people in poverty. We have trusted the governmnet to fight teen pregnancy and venerial diseases since the 60's and numbers grow. Medicare and social security are scheduled to go broke. Medical costs rise because we mandate insurance companies to pay for recreational, cosmetic, and experimental treatments. Government is not the answer, unless the guestion is "How can we quarentee that we spend a lot of money while things get worse?" ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: Swatkinz
Date Posted: August-02-2011 at 1:27pm
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It looks like a plan to raise the debt ceiling is or has been passed. My $.02 here. We are in for some major economic pain. Pain like none we've felt in our lifetimes. We spend more than we make...period. Whether we are an individual, a small business, or a country, the income must exceed the outflow or we are doomed in the long run.
I think that as painful as it would be, we would've been better off to default, receive a credit downgrade suffer the consequences (I.e. late payments to SS, veterans, and all of the other obligations that we have etc.) and learn from this colossal mistake that we have been making for years. No, I'm not in support of screwing our seniors or veterans out of what they were promised. We've overpromised as a country and we will under deliver in the long run. I think it's better to suffer now than suffer a much more severe punishment a few years from now. By raising the debt ceiling we are delaying the inevitable and that is a credit default which will result in horrible economic times. When the dust settles from this debt ceiling debacle, all will be forgotten until we max out the next credit card and we need more money and then we'll start seeing more political theatrics involving the need to balance a budget etc. I'm in the 50% who pays taxes. The solution to this problem is real simple. Make every ablebodied American pay taxes (fairly) and then spend less than those Americans pay. Why can't those on Capitol hill figure this out? ------------- Steve 2011 Sport/Air 200 Excalibur 343 2017 Boatmate Tandem Axle Trailer Former CC owner (77, 80, 95, 88, all SNs) Former Malibu owner (07, 09) |
Posted By: Swatkinz
Date Posted: August-02-2011 at 1:45pm
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After a re-read of my post, I suspect that some may think I'm in support of not paying our military, SSI recipients, etc. I think that those people should be the first in line to cash their checks. I stated that only to say that we must make extreme sacrifices in order to right this ship. Cutting out bogus entitlements is a given, but an outright default in payments to the vets and SSI folks might occur too if we default. I support the military and the older folks who have paid into SSI all their lives. Just stating what I see as the obvious which is we've overextended ourselves...big time.
------------- Steve 2011 Sport/Air 200 Excalibur 343 2017 Boatmate Tandem Axle Trailer Former CC owner (77, 80, 95, 88, all SNs) Former Malibu owner (07, 09) |
Posted By: phospher
Date Posted: August-02-2011 at 1:51pm
| Did you know that there is only one other country in the world that even has a debt ceiling? United States and Denmark. Interesting.. |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: August-02-2011 at 2:05pm
Interesting in what way? ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: phospher
Date Posted: August-02-2011 at 2:11pm
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I'm not implying anything. I just find it both odd and interesting that we are the only two countries in the world with a debt ceiling. I haven't had a chance to look into it much but I think it may be worth while to understand why we actually have one when the rest of the first world countries do not. And this debt problem certainly spans both sides of the isle (Dems/Repubs). I don't think the blame can be placed solely on either party. Though most of us can agree where it started.
Check this article out by Fareed Zakaria. http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2011/07/28/the-damage-is-already-done/ - Fareed Zakaria |
Posted By: TX Foilhead
Date Posted: August-02-2011 at 2:34pm
| The market will determine where the real ceiling is and when that happens it won't matter what Congress says it is. If I had to guess, it was probably done to make it appear that there would be an end to the borrowing, of course they didn't mention that they could just raise it when they wanted to. The only thing good about it though is at least it has become an issue, if it wasn't there I'm sure they would have spent even more by now. |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: August-02-2011 at 2:35pm
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I found this online, sorry, I did not document the source but it does not seem to controversial.
"The origins of the debt limit trace to World War One. For the first 125 years of the nation’s history, Congress authorized each sale of Treasury bonds to pay for specific projects, such as construction of the Panama Canal. The Treasury also faced restrictions on the kinds of debt it could issue. Yet the growing size of government at the onset of the war rendered the old manner of handling the public debt obsolete. In 1917, Congress gave the Treasury more flexibility on how much debt it sold and in what form. The law was further simplified in 1939 on the eve of World War Two. Congress gave the Treasury almost unlimited power to decide what securities to sell and how to best manage the nation’s debt, subject to an overall cap." I cannot say why other countries would not have them. it seems to me that if you have a finite source of money you should have a debt limit calculated to determine what you can eventually pay off, or if you are responsible how much are willing to throw away on interest, in order to smooth out your finacial dealings. Who would loan money to someone without knowing what they can reasonably pay? ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: August-02-2011 at 2:46pm
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I read Fareeds article, some good points and some definite bias, He implies that raising the debt is asumed automatic process since it always has been and that the republicans are manufacturing a crisis by holding up the process. Candidate Barrack Obama spoke out against raising the debt ceiling when Bush was president and made some very valid points about passing on debt to our children. Many on the conservative (Different from Republican) side have been voicing concerns about spending for decades. I think the spending orgy of the last three years was just the straw that broke the camels back. I would ask if the raiseing the debt cieling was to be automatic why was it set up to need approval? I think some wise person saw this day coming. ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: ononewheel
Date Posted: August-02-2011 at 5:40pm
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You can talk about who spent more money, Bush Vs. Obama, but that is like comparing apples to oranges.
Bush wars were not part of the budget, that money was allocated during special session. It fell square on Obamas lap. and it is in his budget. I do fall into the "we have a revenue problem" not a spending problem. But I do also think we have not had spending in check since the recession. Everybody wants all the benefits of a good economy but not pay for it. It has been a race to the bottom for a long time. Cheaper faster and easier at all costs. Yes, even the rich should pay too, even more than the middle, because the can and do use more than the middle and poor. Screw you trickle down economics...that never did work. You can blither about taxes all you want. You will pay the tax in one way or another, even if it is not a tax today, it will be in the future. When you cut social programs and those people fall and land in jail being a perfect example. Or the high cost of health care leading people into the ER and skating on the bill being another. We are f'ed up here in the United States. While you may want to dismiss me as some bleeding heart liberal from Madison, go ahead. One only needs to look some other countries and compare the standard of living to here in the United States. It is legal here to own and shoot some high powered high capacity nearly automatic weapon, which I think should be, but for God's sake if I get busted with a joint I go to jail. WTF? The US is the ONLY country in the industrialized world that does NOT have Parental leave benefit. The list goes on. But now in the end with the proposed debt deal it is you that is going to pay, not the rich and ultra rich. It's you, my friend and that is my point. You and I both see the need to curb spending and raise revenue, it is just that you think the rich should not have to pay for it as well. |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: August-02-2011 at 6:28pm
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I am glad that it is me that will have to pay,that means we still have a chance, it should be everybody that pays. Spending someone elses dime is to easy,this is what our legislators do for a living and is the biggest part of the problem. How would people stand on the debt ceiling if interest on the debt was deducted from their bennefits, with each dollar borowed and each down grade in the us credit rating their checks would be reduced. Suddenly they would have some ownership and maybe look a little past what they can put in their poket today. I hear many saying that raising the debt ceiling isnt about new spending, it is just so we can pay our current obligations. how backwards is the process when our government looks at what they can spend before they look at what they have? I can just imagine the call when visa when I call to say they need to automatically increase my debt limit beyond what I can pay because I have already agreed to spend the money! The same people going to the ER because of the high cost of health care have govt. provided cell phones and flat screen tv's bought with welfare checks. Dont try to tell me it is not true because as a 911 paramedic for 20+ years I have been in their subsidised homes. It is all about prioritys. As we are seeing we cannot pay for everything. ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: phospher
Date Posted: August-02-2011 at 6:51pm
Couldn't agree more.
C'mon. TV's and Cell phones? <sarcasm>Sounds like they are living the high life. I can't see why anyone wouldn't want to be on welfare</sarcasm>. How much do they get a month? Did you just compare tv's and cell phones to the cost of insurance? |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: August-02-2011 at 7:09pm
No I did not compare the cost of cell phones with healthcare. I pointed out a skewed priiority, we are so busy keeping up with the joneses that we buy things we cannot afford and then canot afford what we need. Not a big deal when you dont have to earn it, and just find anothe r of the duplicative agencies that will pay for it, or just go to an ER nowing it costs twice as much but also knowing you can skate on the bill. ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: Swatkinz
Date Posted: August-02-2011 at 7:35pm
Agree with some of what you said, however, I disagree that the problem is not spending, but revenue. Have the knuckleheads in charge ever even once attempted to significantly curb spending? We piss enough money away in foreign countries to have some impact on our debt. I can't recall a time in my life when significant government spending has been reduced or even attempted. The next time my wife spends too much money, I'll explain that it's not her spending that's the problem, it's her earning. Like the government, I'm sure her response will be something along the lines of me just needing to earn/pay more. Ha ha. As for who needs to pay for all of these social programs....how about everybody pays? That's my beef. When I look at my pay stub, I see how much goes to federal and state and it makes me sick. If everybody paid a percentage close to mine AND the folks in Washington would buckle their belts a notch tighter then we wouldn't have financial issues. As far as keeping up with many of these social programs, I can't see where that's helping society much at all. We reward people with food stamps, housing subsidies and healthcare as long as they behave themselves. To hell with encouraging them to make a change. Don't we all benefit from national security, police/fire/ems protection, education? Shouldn't we all pay then? Shouldn't the government seek cost effective solutions? I'm doing my part. I'm just asking for everyone else to do theirs. ------------- Steve 2011 Sport/Air 200 Excalibur 343 2017 Boatmate Tandem Axle Trailer Former CC owner (77, 80, 95, 88, all SNs) Former Malibu owner (07, 09) |
Posted By: ononewheel
Date Posted: August-02-2011 at 10:57pm
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This is exactly what I am referring to.
You pay for all the services you use and the ones others use. Everybody should pay for it, even if you are ultra rich. Not many are rewarded with food stamps etc. I cannot believe there are vast amounts of people whom collect food stamps and the like, and would not prefer to work a job and receive an honest days pay. I know most uneducated positions in this country do not pay a living wage, which almost forces that person to find two jobs or look for help. Most on here can see how inflation has affected us at the grocery store, no how about if you make $8.00 an hour. Man that would be tough. And don't say "they should go to school and get an education to earn more" Who the hell will do those jobs then? I just think if you work in this country and put in honest work, you should get a decent living wage. So now, why when the budget doesn't balance, are we going to balance it from the pocketbooks of those that can least afford it? Do you think Mr. Boehner is taking a cut to his medicare. How about his children's school, are they cutting 40% of the teachers? When is the last time any of them in Congress or the Senate made a mortgage payment? Probably haven't in sometime because some lobbyist funnels money for his political stance. Whomever said "both sides are to blame" is exactly right. Damn I cannot understand why a majority cannot see it. We have become a nation of little b***hes to our so-called government. The hypocrisy of the new debt deal is astounding. It calls for a "Super Congress' what the ..... Why has the tea party not stood on this. "super congress" sounds rather unconstitutional to me. Isn't that what the tea party is all about? |
Posted By: Swatkinz
Date Posted: August-03-2011 at 12:03am
I have a problem with me paying for the services I use AND the services others use in this current system. If everyone paid it'd be different. I'm sorry you feel that the rich don't deserve an incentive for their work. Your statement "Everyone should pay for it, even the ultra rich" is what I have a problem with. I think that "Everyone should pay for it, regardless of income level." We all supposedly benefit from these taxes, yes? no? Well certainly we benefit from some of them, but not to the same extent. There are all sorts of subsidies and programs out there that your $8/hour buddy qualifies for that I do not. You can bet your ass that my taxes are paying for those "programs" though. Don't believe people aren't willing to work an honest day's job? Come to my neck of the woods. I'll show you some of those people since you can't find many people who do it. Should they get an education and find better employment? I don't know....why not....I'm sure there's a program out there that'll pay for it courtesy of me and you. It couldn't hurt. No incentive to work for $8 an hour, right? Let the illegals do it. I make a decent living in a job that has good flexibility. My wife is a schoolteacher. Our income is probably what most would consider average. We drive a 9 year old SUV and a 4 year old SUV. We live in a starter home neighborhood and carry little debt, yet it seems that b/w federal, state, property, sales, prepared food, tourism, and many more taxes that I've missed, I can't afford to take care of my future like I need to. I've got 2 kids to get thru college. Two weddings. You get the picture. To add insult to injury, I started looking closely at the social security statement that we all get annually. In the fine print it states something like, "your actual monthly payment may be different than shown based on any retirement, 401k accoutnts, etc." I'm certain that by the time I retire there'll be some additional, additional 401k taxes that will basically take that much more from me to pay the people who "couldn't find the discipline" to put some back. Where's the incentive to do anything anymore? I don't care about Boehner, his teachers or his mortgage. Why wouldn't his teachers been faced with job cuts? My wife's school district was effected. His mortgage? Maybe he had a mortgage and paid it off early. There are people who do that you know. It's possible. Don't mean to be preaching, but it just hacks me off that anyone insinuates that working people (like me) aren't paying enough in taxes. Super Congress. Nothing super going on up there except a Super Waste of Time and Money. I will agree with you that both sides share the blame here. Both got us into this mess and both seem to be committed to riding this ship all the way to the bottom. Again, sorry to preach or offend. I'd rather have this cordial conversation over a beer, but this forum will have to do for now. Just the way I see it. ------------- Steve 2011 Sport/Air 200 Excalibur 343 2017 Boatmate Tandem Axle Trailer Former CC owner (77, 80, 95, 88, all SNs) Former Malibu owner (07, 09) |
Posted By: ononewheel
Date Posted: August-03-2011 at 3:30am
Name ONE time the rich have hired more when they make more money.................................................................................................................................................................................................................... Reread history. Trickle down economics does not exist Do you know about Herbert Hoover? This was exactly what he thought and it lead to a very poor outcome. Really, get back to me on that one. . If you really are from the tea party I will understand why you feel this way. psssst....(you do not have to admit on here you really just hate the fact we have a black president) |
Posted By: ononewheel
Date Posted: August-03-2011 at 3:45am
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Steve,
I think you misunderstood.You pay enough but the ultra rich do not. And Boehner and his boys just want you to pay more for receiving less. The same can be said for the corporations that do not pay the fair share. It is the middle class that always gets screwed. We have the lowest corporate tax rate in history, and what is it getting us? Major corps. would rather still move over seas. I'd love to discuss this over a beer someday with anybody. Had I joined the forum earlier I might have gotten to one of the reunions. In all honesty, politics piss me off, and I'd rather go skiing or wakeboarding instead. |
Posted By: watrski
Date Posted: August-03-2011 at 5:15am
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Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: August-03-2011 at 10:31am
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finally.....someone in the middle
you guys pissed, just sent another 2700.00 check to to buy bullets. ononone, you said something that i always wanted to say 2 posts up, but didnt have the balls ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: August-03-2011 at 10:34am
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I guess we werent ready for a black president ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: August-03-2011 at 10:49am
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Ding ding ding ding, It is official, the liberals have realised they cannot win the argument on facts or logic so they have pulled the race card! That does not fly with me, I challange you to go back through this thread and find a single reference to race from the conservatives. I have said nothing different about Obama than I have said about Pelosi, Ried, or Jimmy Carter back in the day. It is thier shared policies that are a problem, and it has not one thing to do with race. I dont hate people, I hate, high taxes and bad policies, because I believe they are bad for our country. ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: August-03-2011 at 10:58am
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One wheel, the top one percent of earners pay 40% of total federal taxes burden. That means out of one hundred people they pay their share of the divided costs and the fair share of 39 others. The top 5% pay 60% of the burden. The bottom 50 percent pay nothing and the bottom 40% (thats 4 out of every 10) are net recievers from the government. Please answer this, what percent in your mind would be the riches fair share? ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: August-03-2011 at 11:01am
Eric, you have said it before. By the way you still did not answer my question about How Obamacare (the mother of all regulation)increasing the rate of healthcare inflation helps us. Actually your none answer speaks volumes. ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: August-03-2011 at 11:07am
Our lowest corporate tax rate in history (Thats bull by the way) are (combined state and federal) the highest in the world, combined with high labor rates, and high regulation, and technology that makes global commerce extremely viable, corporations have choices and the math is pretty clear. ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: Jones
Date Posted: August-03-2011 at 3:10pm
With all due respect, that is a weak argument and a regurgitated talking point the GOP has been using for years. I usually stay away from these topics but this one really ticks me off. Yes, I do not like that everyone is not paying their fair share and that includes the bottom 40%. I support a flat tax with no loopholes. However, the top 1% do not pay their FARE SHARE either (Share meaning percentage of income). The fact is, the top 1-5% of earners pay less of a percentage of their income than the middle class. In simple terms, to me, that means that every dollar Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, David Koch, or Kim Kardashian makes is worth more than mine. They must have worked harder for it right?  ------------- 1979 Ski Nautique (sold) 1997 Ski Nautique 1998 Super Sport Nautique |
Posted By: ononewheel
Date Posted: August-04-2011 at 1:26am
You said it better than I could have. It's fair share. |
Posted By: ononewheel
Date Posted: August-04-2011 at 1:29am
If you can post ONE impartial source that says this I would be amazed. The fact is just the opposite, and I will post where that can be found. High labor rates... You have unknowingly admitted to the truth you wish to hide. You would like it if we all made minimum wage, hence the "race to the bottom" comment I made in an earlier post. |
Posted By: ononewheel
Date Posted: August-04-2011 at 1:51am
Where in the he** do you get this from????? My a**. I am going to end my participation in this discussion with these last few comments. I bet I pay more in taxes than Walmart, Walgreens, and Exxon did last year combined. This of course is taxes paid vs write offs and subsidies. And I am not ultra rich, rich, well off, or anything above middle class. In my mind the ultra rich, top 1% should pay around 65% or even more in taxes. You asked, and that is only double what I pay, and like a comment earlier, they can afford it, and is still a pittance to them. As well, if they do not like it, I challenge them to leave to a country where they pay less. It will not be another INDUSTRIALIZED country. Show me one that pays less than the U.S. Save yourself the work, because it does not exist. Your rhetoric of the poor rich sucks. It won't fly with me, I, like most on this forum. even you, have been paying our fair share for a long time while the rich get to write off everything they make in a tax year. The rich sit on there money after they make it because they can. You and I spend it because we HAVE to. Screw your trickle down crap. Screw you on your race card. I presented valid arguments, and others here agreed with me to prove that. I do not know if you are prejudice but I see no other reason why the Republicans held our country hostage over the debt. The democrats gave them ALL the money for cuts, even dipping into SS and Medicare, yet they still held out. Many republicans have gone as far as stating they will not negotiate with THIS president. Some on this forum have even used some names to describe Obama that are racist or at;east borderline. I do not care if you do not like Obama, as I do not particularly like him eiether, but for gods sake............. |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: August-04-2011 at 3:51am
Here is a chart of corporate tax rates from the organization for Economic Cooperation and developmen. This is a 50 year old organisation that looks impartial to me. here is a link to their site http://www.oecd.org/pages/0,3417,en_36734052_36734103_1_1_1_1_1,00.html - OECD Corporation tax rates by country Country Combined corporate tax rate, , % SOURCE: OECD Australia 30.0 Austria 25.0 Belgium 34.0 Canada 29.5 Chile 17.0 Czech Republic 19.0 Denmark 25.0 Finland 26.0 France 34.4 Germany 30.2 Greece 24.0 Hungary 19.0 Iceland 15.0 Ireland 12.5 Italy 27.5 Japan 39.5 Korea 24.2 Luxembourg 28.6 Mexico 30.0 Netherlands 25.5 New Zealand 30.0 Norway 28.0 Poland 19.0 Portugal 26.5 Slovakia 19.0 Spain 30.0 Sweden 26.3 Switzerland 21.2 Turkey 20.0 United Kingdom 28.0 United States 39.2 You have no clue about my wishes, you are welcome to ask but please do not assume. I wish everyone to live to their full potential and desire, that is why I cheerish freedom and our founding fathers vision. I wish that what they earn to be determined by their individual drive and god given talents, along with what the market will afford them, that is why I am in favor of free enterprise. I wish for a strong economy and full employment and that is why I fear the distructive path this country has taken placing burdens of high regulation and high taxes on business hindering our a bility to be competitive in a global economy. We are destroying our future for immediate gratification. ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: August-04-2011 at 4:12am
Here are the current individual tax rates 2011 Federal Income Tax Rates Marginal Tax Rate Single Married Filing Jointly 10% Bracket $0-$8,500 $0-$17,000 15% Bracket $8,501-$34,500 $17,001-$69,000 25% Bracket $34,501-$83,600 $69,001-$139,350 28% Bracket $83,601-$174,400 $139,351-$212,300 33% Bracket $174,401-$379,150 $212,301-$379,150 35% Bracket $379,151- $379,151- So can you tell me which group works the hardest? And since when is it based on labor difficulty? I always thought it was income tax. What is your source saying the rich are paying less? If they are its by either outright cheating and they should be put in jail or they are using tax stratagies written into the tax law by our legislators to encourage businness activities that were believed to be vital to our economy, or tax laws that were written to buy votes or favor for less than ethical law makers. I totally agree with you on a flat tax and you are correct that there could be no loopholes or exceptions for it to work. I do not have faith in our leaders to leave it alone though. ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: August-04-2011 at 4:16am
From the IRS, sorry if you dont like the source.I dont care much for them either. I have asked the fair share for the rich guestion to many liberals and I are the first one to give me a strait answer. I have concluded that for most any answer that does not include "always more" is not acceptable. as far as doubling the tax on the rich, re-read my earlier post, the rate and collections have do not have linear correlations, your solution would bankrupt the country nearly overnight. As for fair, put any group other than "the rich" in this sentence and see what you think. We need to increase the burden on _______. (Blacks, Hispanics, women, immigrants, democrats, left handed people, ...) It seems you in fact have a predudice against one specific group and want to single them out for special treatment as slaves to the rest of the country. Nice. ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: August-04-2011 at 4:52am
I pulled walmarts annual report from 2009. they paid over 6 billion in income taxes. Do I need to combine the others? you must have the worlds worst tax guy. You should check your facts before you put this stuff out , it is not good for your credability. You seem to be confused about "The Money" being given, it is not the democrats, it is OURS. And we cannot continue continue to have it all spent plus an extra 40 percent on credit every singel year. How is a group of lawmakers voting and negotiating holding the country hostage? this is how our system works. Did Polosy and Ried hold us hostage when thay passed obama care against the wishes of over 60 percent of the country? They took the republicans out of the loop and Obama himself smirked that elections have consequences. Turns out he was right. The republicans are just trying to get our spending within our means. the media hyped that we needed to raise the limit to keep our credit rating, but today we were warned by China and Russia that we did not do enough, and moodies is still threatening to downgrade us for the same reason. Our spending is unsustainable, it is never fun to be the responsible ones but the new republicans are taking on the task. if this does not happen now the fix will only get tougher later. look at greece, that is our future, which is very sad considering what we have done in the past. If you are going to call me or any given group racist you had better have some strong proof, and a concensus amoung liberal commentators and politicians is not proof. I did not see any valid argument to that fact, just a desperate accusation. I have seen rare heat of the moment borderline comments on this site and called the offenders out for it, there is no place for that in my opinion. ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: August-04-2011 at 5:22am
I am not a big fan of the super congress but ther is a big difference between "sounds rather" and "unconstitutional". Article one of the constitution sets up three seperate branches of government, and gives the house and senate the power to self police and decide their own rules, so if they want to form a super congress they can. Anything the super congress produces has to be ratified by the full house and senate. The tea party is all about raising awarness of the constitution so when people try to falsely portray it they will get called on it. ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: August-04-2011 at 5:41am
Re-read (or maybe read for the first time) your history. Ronald Reagan lowered the top rate from 50% to 28% this lead to the creation of 400 million new jobs, unemployment decrease from 11% to 6%, the government increased its collections, and we started the longest period of prosperity in US history. It worked for Kennedy to. Not bad for something that does not exist. How did keynesian economics work for Carter? I would say about the same as its working now. ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: ononewheel
Date Posted: August-04-2011 at 5:42am
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Ok, I cannot let you skewed information be the last on this topic.
Yes you are right. On paper the US actually collects, what, the second highest rate. What you are not showing is the US actually collects the second lowest revenue from said taxes. I am sure you will point out again other countries collect less of a rate, and they do, but they also closed the loopholes which the US has not. Can someone help me out here in explaining how to post a graph on here? Here is an article from Rueters about Microsoft. Here is the short version. Reuters notes that Microsoft’s tax rate last year was just seven percent, due to the company’s extensive employment of tax havens: Microsoft is straightforward about the core reason for its lower tax bill: It is increasingly channeling earnings from sales to customers throughout the world through the low-tax havens of Ireland, Puerto Rico and Singapore…The change is fueling its shrinking tax bills. According to its 2010 annual report, by keeping a good chunk of foreign earnings away from the U.S., Microsoft has accumulated $29.5 billion overseas — and that is before the impact of its last financial year. Microsoft joins a slew of corporations that take advantage of tax havens to drive their tax rates down. Google, for instance, paid just a 2.4 percent tax rate last year thanks to its use of tax havens. At the same time that its sheltering income all over the world in order to avoid taxes, Microsoft is part of a coalition lobbying for a tax holiday that would allow corporations to bring money they have parked in tax havens back to the U.S. at a dramatically low tax rate. The holiday would cost nearly $80 billion, while a similar holiday approved in 2004 did not deliver any of its promised results. |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: August-04-2011 at 5:51am
I have been to two re-unions and have yet to talk politics. Its all about the boats. ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: ononewheel
Date Posted: August-04-2011 at 6:05am
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Oh my.....You mentioned Regan. Ok, you go back to Regan times....I'll stay here.
Regan Firsts. First to serve as Governor on a "conservative" platform and increase spending by 112%. First Governor to increase personal income taxes by 60%, increase the cigarette tax by 200%, and increase state tax collections by 152%. First to have a popularity rating of only 35% after his first two years in office. First to have had a shotgun wedding. First president to have been divorced. First to increase spending by 80% – in only 8 years. First to spend more in eight years than was spent in prior 50 years. First to cut taxes by 60% for his rich pals. First to have increased the national debt faster than growth of national income. First to "almost": triple the national debt. First to increase the national debt faster than growth of GDP. First to double the deficit. First to turn America into a debtor nation. First to set a record for the largest one day percentage decline in the DOW in history. 10-19-87. First to have "real" interest rates of 8% after averaging 1% over 35 years. First to keep prime interest rates at 20%. First to have home loan interest rates as high as 16%. First to allow the savings and loan industry to be raided after signing a deregulatory bill and proclaiming "I think we have hit the jackpot". Come and get it the vaults are unguarded. First to send an autographed Bible to a man he called "The Satan of Terrorists". First to have an admiral plead the Fifth Amendment. First to have a stealing, lying, gutless wife abusing Marine LT. Colonel plead the Fifth Amendment. First to have a sitting cabinet member indicted. First to have an Assistant Secretary of State indicted. First to have an Asistant Secretary of Defense sent to prison. First to have over 100 members of an administration charged with crimes. First to have more members of his administration charged with crimes than the cumulative total of all other presidents in the twentieth century. First to testify "under oath" 130 times that "I don't remember". First to have an Admiral with a photographic memory testify 128 times " I don't remember". First to repeatedly falsify his wife's age, as though anyone cared. First to promote his religious faith and while never having an active membership in any church. First to never use the term Jesus Christ in speeches. First to have unemployment at 10.8% since great depression. First to attack a small unprotected nation with 88,000 inhabitants and 10,000 bb guns, and then proclaim "America stands tall again". "we have whipped the Vietnam Syndrome. We have defeated communism". #1-in farm foreclosures. #1-In bank failures. #1-In Savings and Loan failures. #1-In percent increase in personal bankruptcies. #1-In having servicemen killed during peacetime. #1-In largest drop in popularity in one week. #1-In being first to honor Nazi Storm Troopers by calling them" Innocent Victims". First to lie - over and over- to reporters "I do not dye my hair; my barber uses a special shampoo." First to have a wife who "forced" him to wear three suits in one day. First to boast "Not bad for a dumb guy who worked only 20 hours per week". First to have his wife sit nearby and whisper answers to questions. First to have his press secretary remove him from the microphone when he could not answer questions. (When the reporter shouted out "answer my question", the president replied "my handlers won't let me speak"). First to have a Special Assistant say on national TV "sometimes you had to hit him on the head with a 2 x 4 to get his attention". #1-In needing a staff person standby during press conferences to tell the press "what he really meant". #1-In recorded misstatements. #1-In never having a single press conference in which he did not make incorrect statements. First to invite the Pope to visit the White House and "bring the wife and kids". First to fall asleep while the Pope spoke. First 20th Century president to have historians rate him below every president of the 20th except for Richard Nixon. 1994 Poll. First to have been openly alienated from his children. First to suggest his eldest son undergo psychiatric examination. First to have been voted in British polls (twice) as the "most feared leader in the world" sic em Rambo. First to have his official biographer state on national TV: 'After he was shot in 1981, he got slower and slower each year. His speech got slower. He deliberated more and he hesitated more when he spoke. He lost his physical quickness and would not make decisions on the spot. It was a very, very slow and steady mental and physical decline". First president to have the Geriatrics Department of a major university study his behavior and conclude that after three years in office he had Alzheimer's. First to have over $10,000,000 increase in wealth from serving for 8 years as president. |
Posted By: ononewheel
Date Posted: August-04-2011 at 6:38am
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%20 - http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/07/05/260535/graph-corporate-tax-second-lowest/
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/07/05/260535/graph-corporate-tax-second-lowest/ - second try |
Posted By: ononewheel
Date Posted: August-04-2011 at 6:43am
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And in the spirit of the original post.....
Now that a agreement has been reached, can you explain why the government would make trillions in cuts, but not raise revenue by one cent? If it were about balance, wouldn't raising revenue make sense? RIght now corporations are seeing record profits, so where is the trickle down right now. It still isn't working. |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: August-04-2011 at 10:13am
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i just like poking at the hive, Mike my comments from earlier about the 9600.00 was to maybe make you realize that there is a serious problem with the HC system, which i did say that me and you will be responsible for 80% of his bill......But you go on to not recognizing a problem once again and let it roll with no solution, but throw the HC Obama card out there.
Mike, is there a problem with the healthcare system in this country, does it need to be regulated? i expect a non politician answer ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: August-04-2011 at 10:15am
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I never did like Reagon either, do the Pubs actually have someone on their ticket with a degree? actors, oilman, housewives wtf ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: Swatkinz
Date Posted: August-04-2011 at 11:23am
yep, Reagan was a real piece of shizzz (sarcasm implied) ------------- Steve 2011 Sport/Air 200 Excalibur 343 2017 Boatmate Tandem Axle Trailer Former CC owner (77, 80, 95, 88, all SNs) Former Malibu owner (07, 09) |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: August-04-2011 at 11:34am
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One wheel, You asked me for non biased sources and I gave you the IRS and the OECD, you give me Think progress.org voted best libeeral blog in 2006. You will have to do better. What was your source for the Reagan list, talk about twisted and non pertinant facts, great example of a distorted hit piece. Kind of like taking a blank piece of paper and saying its a picture of a polar bear in a blizzard. it is all white, I guess it could be true. I could do the same with Obama, most money spent, most vacations, most rounds of golf,most expensive date, smokes, but are these really the issues? Thanks for revealing your sources, it helps us to understand you biases and why you are so missinformed. ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: Daves1980ski
Date Posted: August-04-2011 at 11:38am
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Overmyhead,
You forgot to add in the EARNED INCOME TAX CREDIT, that lower income people get. If you look at the income tax pages I think it goes up to around 40,000 for a family. Talk about redistibution of wealth. People that qualify for it get approx triple of their Federal withholding back as a tax return. So the bottom feeders are not paying anything but they are allowed to legally steal money from anyone that does pay taxes. Thank you to all the scummy politicians that voted for this scheme!!! |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: August-04-2011 at 12:00pm
Very true, how can they call it a tax return when it is larger than the taxes paid in the firstplace? ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: Daves1980ski
Date Posted: August-04-2011 at 12:15pm
| You can say that again. I got to see my hero Ronny Reagan speak in Fairfield CT in 87. God bless Ronny and what he did for us after Jimmy Carter. It feels a lot like groundhog day but I don't see another Ronny coming to lift us out of the dark this time!!! Real men are fiscal conservatives and work hard for what they have. |
Posted By: Jones
Date Posted: August-04-2011 at 12:57pm
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[/QUOTE]
Here are the current individual tax rates 2011 Federal Income Tax Rates Marginal Tax Rate Single Married Filing Jointly 10% Bracket $0-$8,500 $0-$17,000 15% Bracket $8,501-$34,500 $17,001-$69,000 25% Bracket $34,501-$83,600 $69,001-$139,350 28% Bracket $83,601-$174,400 $139,351-$212,300 33% Bracket $174,401-$379,150 $212,301-$379,150 35% Bracket $379,151- $379,151- So can you tell me which group works the hardest? And since when is it based on labor difficulty? I always thought it was income tax. What is your source saying the rich are paying less? If they are its by either outright cheating and they should be put in jail or they are using tax stratagies written into the tax law by our legislators to encourage businness activities that were believed to be vital to our economy, or tax laws that were written to buy votes or favor for less than ethical law makers. I totally agree with you on a flat tax and you are correct that there could be no loopholes or exceptions for it to work. I do not have faith in our leaders to leave it alone though. [/QUOTE] These are TAX RATES. Where is your source that says the top 1% of earners actually pay 35%? Gates and Buffett have both said, after deductions not available to the middle class, they pay a lower percentage than those making less that $100k per year. My former boss who cleared over a million a year paid a lower percentage than me. Like I said, loopholes need to be closed ------------- 1979 Ski Nautique (sold) 1997 Ski Nautique 1998 Super Sport Nautique |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: August-04-2011 at 1:26pm
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Jones my source for the 1% is the IRS web site. I agree we should close loopholes and level the playing fieldThen we need to lower the overall rates maintaining our current collections so our businessescan compete. I can't say what percent your boss paid, but was his total dollars paid higher than yours? ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: Jones
Date Posted: August-04-2011 at 1:29pm
Agreed  ------------- 1979 Ski Nautique (sold) 1997 Ski Nautique 1998 Super Sport Nautique |
Posted By: skicat2001
Date Posted: August-04-2011 at 2:17pm
One'r or whatever dooo, Rich that own corporate america hire people. When they pay overrising taxes, it is a huge trickle system down the private sector for hiring americans. For example, there is a huge homebuilder here in Houston, that haD over 1,000 employees that now has under 500 and has had to stop building because of hire taxes, bad housing market, economy etc on and on... Cheveron last week here in houston laidoff another 237 people because of the economy and lack of jobs turned to the lousina gulf coast where they had streamline of work but because of rising costs for corporate america, cheveron is just one that they have to lay off people. It does not work in all, but most good dividends and economists for high end jobs pay large attention to what the economy, poloticians, taxs, wall street that COMPLETY AFFECTS THERE BOTTOMLINE!! And please do not ask me that again, I do not hate his skin color, but I am a racist in one way. HE IS FREEKING MUSLIM. Yes i dislike muslims, the irratic ones!! And I hate, dislike, LEFTY LIBERAL AMERICA!!! OBAMA POLOCIES WILL NOT AND DO NOT WORK. FK THE SOCIALIST COMMUNISTICK POLOCIES AND THE HORSE THEY ROAD IN ON!!!!! GO TO RUSSIA ------------- 1985 CC 2001-SOLD Lee Michael Johnson |
Posted By: skicat2001
Date Posted: August-04-2011 at 2:20pm
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I stand for (3) things
1. Liberty 2.Justice 3. and most of all FREEDOM ------------- 1985 CC 2001-SOLD Lee Michael Johnson |
Posted By: harddock
Date Posted: August-04-2011 at 2:23pm
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and to think life was so good during the Reagan years!!!! Go figure! ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4487" rel="nofollow - 1998 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: phospher
Date Posted: August-04-2011 at 4:14pm
Dude, give it a rest. He's not muslim nor is he even liberal. |