88 Martinique B/R balance problem
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Boat Maintenance
Forum Discription: Discuss maintenance of your Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=23016
Printed Date: September-25-2024 at 8:49am
Topic: 88 Martinique B/R balance problem
Posted By: bryanandmissy
Subject: 88 Martinique B/R balance problem
Date Posted: August-08-2011 at 3:05pm
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I am new to this site. So thank you in advance.
I bought a 1988 Martinique last year that is in great shape. Best purchase ever! However I have noticed once on plane and with weight equally distributed laterally that the boat tends to lean heavily towards the driver side. I have to put 3 people on the left side with only the driver on the right to even/balance the boat. This is only on plane. Is this normal or is there a way for me to fix it? Help Please! ------------- Bryan 1988 Martinique B/R Louisville, KY |
Replies:
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-08-2011 at 3:42pm
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CC used reverse rotation engines to spin RH props which counteracted the condition you describe. It's quite possible that a PO repowered it with a standard rotation (automotive). From the rear of the boat, a RH prop will spin clockwise to move the boat forward.
Welcome to CCfan. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: bryanandmissy
Date Posted: August-08-2011 at 7:07pm
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Thanks 8122pbrainard. I will look into this and get back to you. ------------- Bryan 1988 Martinique B/R Louisville, KY |
Posted By: bryanandmissy
Date Posted: August-18-2011 at 8:19pm
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8122pbrainard,
I looked at the prop as you said and it looks to be original equipment.I have left an picture of the prop. Do you have any other thoughts? Thank you.  ------------- Bryan 1988 Martinique B/R Louisville, KY |
Posted By: daddyo
Date Posted: August-18-2011 at 10:27pm
| They're good boats, but draft deep and i've been prone to smacking stuff with the prop. Might also have something to do with how far down the texas lakes are right now. Notice anything else that doesn't seem right? What's the prop sitting on in that pic? |
Posted By: daddyo
Date Posted: August-18-2011 at 10:37pm
| And yes, that's a RH prop, most likely original. I did want to mention that I tweaked one of my tracking fins a few years ago and that made the boat list a bit under power. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-18-2011 at 10:46pm
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I agree that that is the original MW prop. I'd say give Delta a call and see what they say after you give them the specs. Report back!! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: bryanandmissy
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 4:26pm
The Prop is still on the shaft in that picture. What you see at the bottom is the locking nut and part of the pin. I will take your advise and report back. Another picture for you to see. Thanks. ------------- Bryan 1988 Martinique B/R Louisville, KY |
Posted By: jimsport93
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 4:44pm
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Looks like there may be a deflection (bend) in that bottom blade.
Might want to consider a new prop. That rash looks pretty severe on that upper left blade. May weaken it quite a bit, could break loose.IMO ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2798 - 93 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: bryanandmissy
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 5:16pm
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OK. Just talked to Delta and they recommended going to a Acme 912 Prop. 13 RH 10.5 and said I would get better performance in all aspects. Didn't know that was even possible. He said the technology is just that much better. I would get better performance out of the hole and higher top speed. I have a 1 to 1 drive and right now I get about 3600 rpm when it wide open (try not to do this very often). He said I would get more speed and rpm too with this prop. Out of the hole and top end. Have you guys heard of this before? I was always taught it was a trade off, you sacrifice one for the other.
As far as the imbalance, he said it could be due to torque and this may help but he can't say for sure. Any thoughts? ------------- Bryan 1988 Martinique B/R Louisville, KY |
Posted By: bryanandmissy
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 5:21pm
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jimsport93,
Thank you for your opinion. I was wanting to wait until next year but am now highly considering a new blade soon. I think you are correct, but do you think the prop imperfections could be causing my boat to lean heavily to the right? ------------- Bryan 1988 Martinique B/R Louisville, KY |
Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 5:29pm
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It is definitely possible that a new prop would make your boat perform better in every way. There's been a ton of talk about the huge gains of the new ACME props.
On the listing... it's only while under way, right? Just theoretically, I almost feel like your old banged up prop would have caused a paddle-wheel effect that would make it lean the other way. The prop is right hand rotation, right? I would tend to look at other running gear for any oddities as well. Tracking fins, strut, rudder. |
Posted By: bryanandmissy
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 5:30pm
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Daddyo,
Can you elaborate more on the tracking fin issue you had? ------------- Bryan 1988 Martinique B/R Louisville, KY |
Posted By: jimsport93
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 5:47pm
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Yes, I do. Any time you have a bent, chipped etc blade it will affect performance. That one bent blade very well could contribute to the listing problem. How about everything else under the boat? Tracking fins straight? Strut straight? Rudder straight? Shaft straight?
Sounds like you may be "overpropped" (too high a pitch) on what you are running now. Delta is correct. Lower pitch equal more RPMs. More RPM's will improve hole shot and increase the top end. There is a delicate balance. You want to hit max rated RPMs at WOT (wide open throttle)when determining the right prop. I like to run the boat loaded like how I use it most (people and gear...it is a function of weight) to determine the proper RPM range with a particular prop. What motor you got in that boat? What is the max recommended RPM? Do you know? Sounds like you are on the right track after talking with Delta ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2798 - 93 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: bryanandmissy
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 5:48pm
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Bri892001,
Yes it only does this on plane and I agree the RH prop should give it the tendency to torque towards the left. Is there a way to verify/tweek the tracking fin alignment? ------------- Bryan 1988 Martinique B/R Louisville, KY |
Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 5:55pm
| Not totally sure how you'd verify it. Nothing is obviously bent though? |
Posted By: jimsport93
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 5:57pm
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You can usually look at the tracking fins and tell it they are bent.
My bet is on that prop being the main culprit, but do have a look at the fins. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2798 - 93 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: bryanandmissy
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 5:57pm
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OK. I have decided to order a new prop so that I can eliminate this as a possible reason and go from there. I will get back to you guys on the outcome.
I would still love some advise on how to verify the tracking fins alignment and/or how to adjust the rudder if needed. Thanks for all of your insights. ------------- Bryan 1988 Martinique B/R Louisville, KY |
Posted By: bryanandmissy
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 5:59pm
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Ok I will just visually look at them. Thanks so much for your help and quick response.
------------- Bryan 1988 Martinique B/R Louisville, KY |
Posted By: martin 74
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 6:03pm
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Suggest posting a photo or two of the tracking fin on here. Ask Delta about fixing your prop so you can keep it as a cheap spare. The new prop will feel like a dream and hopefully fix your problem. Be sure to get some valve grinding compound for lapping and read Pete's prop install thread on here and ask questions so you get your new prop on right.
Rich |
Posted By: daddyo
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 7:48pm
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Tweaked the fin as in I was an idiot and bent it at the ramp. Drove squirrelly after that, but not nearly what you've described. I'm still using the original 13X12 on mine, just too many stumps in my lake. One guy on here used that 912 on a martinique and loved it. He did report a crazy high rpm at wot, but never confirmed it when it was questioned. Others have used the 542 and seen nice gains too. Might want to verify this with delta and make sure you're getting the right prop for how you're going to use the boat. Keep us posted on how it works out.
chris |
Posted By: daddyo
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 7:53pm
And it was obviously bent and twisted. 
|
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 8:15pm
Just in case you have a hard time finding it http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/search_results_posts.asp?SearchID=20110819171522&KW=proper+prop - proper prop ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
martin 74 wrote:Posted By: bryanandmissy
Date Posted: August-20-2011 at 9:09am
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Thank you gentlemen. Will report back. ------------- Bryan 1988 Martinique B/R Louisville, KY |
Posted By: daddyo
Date Posted: September-09-2011 at 6:24pm
| Any updates? I'm curious how that prop worked for y'all. |
Posted By: bryanandmissy
Date Posted: September-13-2011 at 4:05pm
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I got the Acme 912 and put it on 2 weeks ago. I took the boat out for about a 5 min ride just to verify all is well. The lean seams to be better but not totally gone. However, I was by myself and couldn't really gauge the difference because I didn't have anyone to move around. I am going out this afternoon and with passengers and will report back with more specifics.
Side notes: I noticed a big difference in smoothness. I noticed the boat comes out of the hole much faster and the nose seems to ride much lower when I am on plane. I noticed the WOT went from 3700 to 4100 and my top speed went from 36 mph to 41 mph. All great things. However, I am wondering if the problem is actually a left turning issue and I am correcting it by turning the wheel right which causes a lean to the right. Because when I place the wheel in a manner as to where the boat is level laterally I have a very slight turn left, even while its perfectly level. Will get back to you later tonight. Bryan ------------- Bryan 1988 Martinique B/R Louisville, KY |
Posted By: 1989SN2001
Date Posted: September-13-2011 at 4:44pm
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Sounds like propwalk to me. Your old beat up prop was likely walking hard to the left at speed, causing you to counter by steering to the right, and causing the lean. The new prop doesnt walk nearly as bad, and therefore the lean isnt the same. All inboards (single engine ones anyway, but thats another topic) will propwalk to some extent, and is normal. Its the same phenomonon that causes the boat to back up to the left.
Compare where your steering wheel was when going straight with the old prop to where it is now. I bet it will be different. |
Posted By: bryanandmissy
Date Posted: September-14-2011 at 2:03pm
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Ok. After taking an hour ride last night, I will say it is a little better. However it is still noticeably leaning right. I weigh about 200lbs and was driving. I had my wife and all three children, about 240 lbs on the opposite side and the extra equipment is mostly balanced. Again when I level the boat, by turning the wheel to the center, the boat has a slight turn to the left. So naturally to go straight I have to turn the wheel right which leans the boat right to counter the left turning tendency. I understand the concept of "propwalk" as you call it, but this seems to me to be more than that.
Does anyone no anything about, or is it possible to adjust the guide fins? They seem to be straight and in perfect condition from a quick eye, but is it possible something hit one of them and it is off a degree or two and I could adjust them? My intuition tells me if I were to adjust the leading edge of the front fin toward the starboard side a few degrees, that may solve the problem. Is this possible? Bryan ------------- Bryan 1988 Martinique B/R Louisville, KY |
Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: September-14-2011 at 2:09pm
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I've heard of a bent shaft strut causing this too.
And, you're totally sure the boat sits level when at rest and no weight in it? |
Posted By: bryanandmissy
Date Posted: September-14-2011 at 2:10pm
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Yes, It is fine until I am on plane and then it gets progressively worse as I accelerate. ------------- Bryan 1988 Martinique B/R Louisville, KY |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: September-14-2011 at 2:18pm
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With a RH prop, the boat should lean harder and harder to the left (port) as you increase speed. The prop rotation offsets the weight of the driver. What youre describing sounds like what a LH prop would do.
We had one significantly bent tracking fin on our BFN the first year we ran it- I didnt notice any strange leaning... but it wouldnt hurt to put a long straight edge on the fins to see if theyre both pointing in the same direction. I would also check for a bent rudder. If all else checks out, you can always take a closer look at the hook in your hull to see if you have significantly more on one side than the other... but I dont know how much youre supposed to have, or if its supposed to be even in the first place. Comparing 2 similar hulls might tell you something though. ------------- |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: September-14-2011 at 2:35pm
If the tracking fins are visually straight I'd leave them alone. I think you should be looking at your rudder. You may not have an original rudder which is throwing off your boat's handling. You could LIGHTLY file the starboard side down to reverse the current load you have, so you'll then be turning left to go straight, which will then help level the boat. Rudder tuning is common practice with tournament slalom boats. The MasterCraft forums as well as WaterSki Magazine have had several threads and articles. ------------- |
Posted By: bryanandmissy
Date Posted: September-14-2011 at 2:38pm
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If the shaft was bent, wouldn't the problem be more exaggerated at slower speeds and then as you accelerated the problem would become less noticeable due to the increased effectiveness of the guide fins at higher speeds? ------------- Bryan 1988 Martinique B/R Louisville, KY |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: September-14-2011 at 2:40pm
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Irregardless you should verify your running gear is straight and aligned, else you are chasing your tail. You could call them upside down dorsal fins if you wanted, but technically speaking they are tracking fins. ------------- |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: September-14-2011 at 2:41pm
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I second HW's idea of tunning the rudder.
Do check as Tim mentioned if you have a LH prop on that boat. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: September-14-2011 at 2:43pm
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I thought we verified he's got the "right" prop on page 1... ------------- |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: September-14-2011 at 2:44pm
You are correct!!  ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: daddyo
Date Posted: September-14-2011 at 7:45pm
| You've got the "a" team on the case now. But maybe a few pics showing the alignment of the running gear could be helpful. And thanks for the updates on the 912. Sounds like the right prop. I am a little surprised that you're seeing 41 at 4100 with a 10.5 pitch on that big ol' boat. GPS'd? |
Posted By: 1989SN2001
Date Posted: September-15-2011 at 11:20am
| Perhaps the rudder is from a boat with a LH prop? I know the rudder on a lot of inboards is beveled/shaped in a non-symmetric way, almost like a vertical airplane wing. I would assume this bevel is to counter the propwalk effect, so one that is shaped wrong could make that problem even worse, right? Pics of the running gear would help. |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: September-15-2011 at 12:22pm
A RH prop will walk to starboard going forward, so naturally you'd be turning right to counter this. Unfortunately turning right lists his boat even worse. I'm actually suggesting tuning the rudder as if it were on a LH boat, which might be a tall task to completely overcome the prop walk. ------------- |
Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: September-15-2011 at 12:43pm
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I remember a while back, Snobsessed had a lot of info about straightening his strut. I don't remember all the details, but I remember him saying a bent strut could make the boat list at speed.
This seems like a possibility because it would cause the thrust of the prop to be pushing a little bit sideways. Also, if the original prop was dinged up, the running gear must have hit something at some point. |
Posted By: 1989SN2001
Date Posted: September-15-2011 at 2:09pm
I don't understand why you're suggesting tuning it to be more like a LH rudder? If a RH prop is walking the stern to starboard, then a RH rudder would tend to push the stern to port, when running straight, right? So if he has an incorrect EDIT: rudder :: that is for a LH boat, wouldn't it tend to push the stern starboard as well as the prop, making him have to steer starboard even more to go straight, thus listing the boat further? |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: September-15-2011 at 2:16pm
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Some walk is good, that puts a load on the steering wheel. You don't overcorrect walk with rudder tuning, you use it to your advantage.
For the second time...
------------- |
Posted By: 1989SN2001
Date Posted: September-15-2011 at 4:23pm
| Hollywood, I made a typo, that should have read "incorrect RUDDER", not prop. My mistake, I'll correct the post. I know he has the correct prop. The question still stands though, why try to correct this issue by tuning towards a LH rudder? |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: September-15-2011 at 4:55pm
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If he makes the boat want to go to the right steering left will make the boat go straight AND help level it out. I really don't know how much rudder tuning will be necessary to make this happen, if at all.
We still haven't seen pictures of the rest of the running gear. My suggestion is purely a band-aid. Considering this isn't a more common problem on that hull, I think the rest of his gear is really to blame. ------------- |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: September-15-2011 at 5:11pm
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I wonder if the back end of the drive shaft is directly in front of the rudder or if it's off to one side a little.
I also wonder if there's more wet foam on one side. It may be showing up as he has less boat in the water to support it? ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: September-15-2011 at 5:30pm
Is this your boat?
------------- |
Posted By: bryanandmissy
Date Posted: September-16-2011 at 12:33pm
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Wow, that is scary! I am very thankful for all the brain power going into this discussion. I will post some good pictures of the gear later this evening, as i must travel out to my storage unit to take them.
Also, I do agree if I could somehow tune something to steer the bow starboard, that would help me to level the boat on plane. I will post pics in a little while! ------------- Bryan 1988 Martinique B/R Louisville, KY |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: September-16-2011 at 12:46pm
Yes massa HW; I did read the thread if that's what you're getting at. You'll also remember that this is a V-hull, and a minor difference in side to side weight may only show up with less hull in the water...less support. I don't think that will be the culprit in the end though. When yall get the pics, try to get one from straight behind the prop. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: September-16-2011 at 1:55pm
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Valid. Could be the perfect storm here. ------------- |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: September-16-2011 at 9:45pm
Bri - Thanks for the acknowledgment but I don't remember giving this advice. I agree with it though - makes sense to me! ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: bryanandmissy
Date Posted: September-19-2011 at 11:49am
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Ok. Sorry for the delay as I was distracted by my job. I hate when that happens.
Anyway, I took many pictures and am going to try to post them with comments below if needed. 
In this Picture you can definitely see that the rudder has a shaved spot on the port side where the arm meets the paddle by the curve. ------------- Bryan 1988 Martinique B/R Louisville, KY |
Posted By: bryanandmissy
Date Posted: September-19-2011 at 11:53am
Starboard Side view ------------- Bryan 1988 Martinique B/R Louisville, KY |
Posted By: bryanandmissy
Date Posted: September-19-2011 at 12:30pm
Port Side View 
View of guide fins from rear 
View of guide fins from side 
Looking back from in front of the guide fins 
Looking at shaft/strut 
With this view I laid down a 4' level and aligned it to be flush against both guide fins to show the angle in reference to the shaft. You can see that it does not dissect the shaft in the middle, rather the angle passes just off the port side of the shaft. I was very careful in taking this picture to align my camera lens with the long end of the level. 
In this picture I was trying to let you see the amount of lean/turn I have to have in order to maintain a straight path. Note the position of the steering wheel and compare to the next picture. 
Here the boat is laterally level, however it is now in a large arcing left turn. Note the steering wheel as compared to the previous picture. This steering wheel postion is just slightly left of what I would call centered when I took the very first picture I posted of the rudder and prop. 
Here you can see how much turn I experience when I turn the wheel so as the boat is level as discussed in the two previous pictures. That is all I have for pictures now. If I missed an angle, please let me know and I will go take more. Any thoughts? ------------- Bryan 1988 Martinique B/R Louisville, KY |
Posted By: bryanandmissy
Date Posted: September-19-2011 at 12:46pm
By the way this picture is for Chris a.k.a. "Daddyo." It was taken going into a stiff 20 mph wind. My previous numbers were off a little, but it may have a little to do with the wind. I did not GPS it but will next time.
 ------------- Bryan 1988 Martinique B/R Louisville, KY |
Posted By: C-Bass
Date Posted: September-19-2011 at 1:07pm
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You should probably try posting larger pictures...those are too small to see anything...
That was a joke. Try downsizing the pictures so they're easier to see. ------------- Craig 67 SN 73 SN http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6103" rel="nofollow - 99 Sport 85SN |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: September-19-2011 at 1:22pm
Please edit by downsizing your pictures so they fit into the forums screen size. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: September-19-2011 at 1:26pm
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800x600 pixels would be a "large" picture for on here. ------------- |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: September-19-2011 at 1:32pm
Kevin, As long as we are on the subject of Martiniques, where are the new pictures???? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: bryanandmissy
Date Posted: September-19-2011 at 1:36pm
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Ouch! More ridicule please! LOL...I thought they seemed quite big. I will repost new ones resized in a bit.
Thanks ------------- Bryan 1988 Martinique B/R Louisville, KY |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: September-19-2011 at 1:37pm
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I have two of the boat in the driveway with Tate, and then a bunch of baby squirrel pictures from the tire shop. You'll have to ask my partner for pictures, it's at his house and he spent yesterday cleaning it. ------------- |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: September-19-2011 at 1:42pm
Well, at least he made himself useful for a change!!   ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: September-19-2011 at 1:56pm
Congrats- it sounds like you and your "partner" have finally made it official? ------------- |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: September-19-2011 at 2:33pm
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Quit hijacking the thread. ------------- |
Posted By: bryanandmissy
Date Posted: September-19-2011 at 3:56pm
I am confused as to what pictures we are discussing now. Is this more ridicule? By the way any more thoughts on the topic of discussion? ------------- Bryan 1988 Martinique B/R Louisville, KY |
Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: September-19-2011 at 4:23pm
| I think everyone is just goofing around until we see smaller versions of the pictures. It's hard to see what's going on with the big ones. The ridicule is not directed at you. |
Posted By: bryanandmissy
Date Posted: September-19-2011 at 4:25pm
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I corrected the posts immediately with new pictures. Are you guys still not seeing the corrected posts? ------------- Bryan 1988 Martinique B/R Louisville, KY |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: September-19-2011 at 4:27pm
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Sorry for the hijack. It seems Hollywood has always "leaned" a certain way, and has formed a new "partnership". That and his newfound Martinique ownership makes him the most qualified to comment in this thread.
By chance are you a big guy? That would be one obvious reason why the boat is listing while underway (with just the driver aboard). I suspect thats probably not the case, but didnt want to ignore the obvious. Your running gear looks fine and I dont think its a contributor to what youre experiencing... at least based on what I can see in the pictures. ------------- |
Posted By: bryanandmissy
Date Posted: September-19-2011 at 4:28pm
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200 lbs
------------- Bryan 1988 Martinique B/R Louisville, KY |
Posted By: bryanandmissy
Date Posted: September-19-2011 at 4:38pm
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Also, After analyzing the situation more closely while taking these pictures, I don't think the new prop helped the problem at all. Everything just runs smoother and better.
So, I am thinking of removing the guide fin closet to the bow and remounting it with the leading edge angled a few degrees towards the starboard side. This, in my feeble mind, would help to correct the arcing turn I experience with the wheel straight, consequently removing the need to turn right to go straight. Any thoughts on doing something so drastic? Are the guide fins mounted into a reenforced part of the boat or is it just the same hull thickness throughout, because I would have to move it 1/2" to 1" to make new holes. ------------- Bryan 1988 Martinique B/R Louisville, KY |
Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: September-19-2011 at 4:42pm
|
Ok, I see your resized pictures now. And, I agree, can't see anything wrong.
Not sure if this would matter, but does your rudder have any serious side to side or back and forth play? I don't mean rotational, as it's supposed to rotate, but I mean if you took the bottom and tried to push it forward and back or left to right? I'm not very familiar with the rudder shaving other than it's purpose is to load the wheel a bit for the slalom course. Could an overly agressive modification of the rudder build a lot of turn into it? If the shaving was making the rudder turn left and he had to fight it to the right to make the boat travel straight? Could this cause the lean? |
Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: September-19-2011 at 4:46pm
| Need the engineers to pipe in: It it possible that the rudder could have "lift" the way an airplane wing does? In this case, the lift pushing the bottom of the boat to the left making it tip to the right? |
Posted By: bryanandmissy
Date Posted: September-19-2011 at 4:48pm
No. It has no play in it fore, aft or side to side. ------------- Bryan 1988 Martinique B/R Louisville, KY |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: September-19-2011 at 4:55pm
|
Your fins are straight, do not mess with them. I had a significantly bent fin and it did not affect the steering to the point where it was noticeable. Trust me, you do not want to be filling holes in the hull and drilling new ones.
The "straightness" of the steering wheel is unimportant. That is simply a function of the wheel position when the steering cable was inserted into the helm. It has no bearing on when your boat should track straight. Based on your pictures, I do not believe that you are countersteering to go straight. I believe you should be looking beyond the steering system for your listing issue. It would take more than a subtle bend of the rudder or other running gear in order to introduce that sort of thing... and I dont think thats whats happening here. I would take a straight edge to the hull to see if there is more hook in one side than the other to rule that out... but I would suspect that weight is the culprit here. ------------- |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: September-19-2011 at 5:06pm
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Bryan,
I agree with Tim. Keep looking. The weight on one side and the hook in the bottom port side compared to the starboard side are great ideas. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: bryanandmissy
Date Posted: September-19-2011 at 5:13pm
Well I am not an engineer but I do fly airplanes and can appreciate your point. I am not sure of the answer, but I think the rudder would be hard pressed to do such a thing as actually lift the boat on port side, if that is what you mean. As long as it is on a vertical plane, the lift created should be on the horizontal plane and creating a lift action horizontally. I do agree that "principal of lift" does play a part in the directional control forces applied to the rear of the boat, and is what Hollywood was getting at when he talked about "lightly filing the starboard side down to reverse the load." But I am wondering if lightly filing the rudder would have enough of an impact? ------------- Bryan 1988 Martinique B/R Louisville, KY |
Posted By: bryanandmissy
Date Posted: September-19-2011 at 5:18pm
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Great points Tim. I will look into the hull.
Are you saying Correct Craft may have sold this boat with a curve in the hull and it has been this way it's whole life? ------------- Bryan 1988 Martinique B/R Louisville, KY |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: September-19-2011 at 5:26pm
Yes, that is what Im saying. With very few exceptions, Correct Craft put "hook" into their fiberglass hulls to dial in their attitude at speed. Starting with the 2001 hull, Ski Nautiques were not "hooked" evenly side to side- this allowed them to run closer to level, taking into account the prop rotation and weight of the driver. Im not sure how your Martinique is supposed to be set up, but its worth inspecting to see if something is out of the ordinary. Buffalo took some good pictures of his '88 Barefoot Nautique that shows how much hook his hull has: 
 ------------- |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: September-19-2011 at 5:27pm
I guess my idea is not a good one. ------------- |
Posted By: bryanandmissy
Date Posted: September-19-2011 at 5:32pm
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If it is a weight issue, would this be due to my weight. I thought someone said in an earlier post that the driver was included in the design. Is there foam down in the hull and is it possible to have waterlogged foam on the starboard side only? ------------- Bryan 1988 Martinique B/R Louisville, KY |
Posted By: bryanandmissy
Date Posted: September-19-2011 at 5:33pm
Keep them coming Hollywood. I am open for anything. this bugs the crap out of me. Literally! ------------- Bryan 1988 Martinique B/R Louisville, KY |
Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: September-19-2011 at 5:37pm
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Bryan, it sounds like you already compensated for your own weight by putting an equal (or even greater) crew weight on the port side. I think they are more talking about the weight of potentially water logged foam.
My point on the rudder was that it could be causing a side to side "lift" not a vertical, actual lift. The later, tunuable rudders, had a gizmo that let you tune the trailing edge of the rudder to put a little load on the steering wheel. If someone has mussed with the leading edge of middle, who knows what that would do? I agree with checking the hook though. That sounds like the first place to start. |
Posted By: bryanandmissy
Date Posted: September-19-2011 at 5:38pm
Wow! Very good information. I would have never thought to look at this, but will now! I can't imagine being the original owner and accepting such a thing. ------------- Bryan 1988 Martinique B/R Louisville, KY |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: September-19-2011 at 5:44pm
Putting a little bit of load on the rudder so that the steering pulls in one direction (instead of being neutral) is one thing. Suggesting that you can tweak the rudder enough to list the boat over 10 degrees is another. He'd be wrestling with that steering wheel quite a bit trying to keep the hull tracking straight, dont you think? ------------- |
Posted By: bryanandmissy
Date Posted: September-19-2011 at 5:45pm
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If it is possibly the rudder or because someone altered it, where would I find one? ------------- Bryan 1988 Martinique B/R Louisville, KY |
Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: September-19-2011 at 5:48pm
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Bryan, you can get rudders at Skidim, Nautiqueparts, MyCorrectCraftParts probably.
It's a very expensive part to "throw at" the problem though. And unlike the propeller, there wouldn't be any side benefit (like speed, acceleration, smoothness) if it doesn't fix your problem. |
Posted By: bryanandmissy
Date Posted: September-19-2011 at 5:52pm
It looks from the picture that I posted that the TRAILING edge, not the LEADING edge, of the middle (or where the stem of the rudder meets the paddle of the rudder) was filed on the port side, possibly at the manufacture, to create the steering load. ------------- Bryan 1988 Martinique B/R Louisville, KY |
Posted By: bryanandmissy
Date Posted: September-19-2011 at 5:58pm
Well I will look into it but if it is that expensive I probably will look for another solution. Sounds like the other option of waterlogged foam would be expensive and time consuming also. I just don't see how the foam on one side could hold that much more water than the other and if that was the culprit wouldn't I experience some imbalance while sitting still, which I don't. ------------- Bryan 1988 Martinique B/R Louisville, KY |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: September-19-2011 at 6:13pm
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Go back and read BuffaloBFN's posts. TX_Foilhead and MIskier explain surface area/buoyancy principles in the X-Star thread. ------------- |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: September-19-2011 at 8:47pm
I don't have a yellow level.  ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: September-19-2011 at 8:50pm
Is that not your boat? Hmmm... ------------- |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: September-19-2011 at 9:05pm
Wow!! I guess we need to speak to this guy at waterski magazine. I guess he's not heard about tune able rudders yet!! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: September-19-2011 at 9:13pm
You were as close as you can get and still miss. That pic came from the guy who was asking me how much hook my boat had. I could find some of mine but that one makes the point. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: September-19-2011 at 9:20pm
The hook does not mean you have an imperfect boat...at least for that reason. As Tim said, they are there on purpose. They set the boat's attitude or you might call it the running angle. I suspect they came along like a major suspension improvment on a sports car. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: jimsport93
Date Posted: September-19-2011 at 9:35pm
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Have we yet ruled out waterlogged foam on the starboard side?
It would be possible for a boat to sit out in the rain, with the plug in and a flat tire on the starboard side of the trailer. Water pooling up on the starboard side and soaking the foam. It does look like a weight distribution issue when under power. The running gear looks fine to me. And the way the boat lists to the right in the one picture suggests heavy weight on that side. It may not be apparent sitting still with the large wetted surface of the hull, but up on plane it may be a different story. Just my thoughts. This is a good one! ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2798 - 93 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: September-19-2011 at 9:59pm
No, it's one of the things Tim brought up and I confirmed worth looking into. However, I don't really know how to do it. You'd need to weigh each side of the trailer separately. That may be done if you got "real friendly" with your local truck stop operator??? Measuring the spring compression from one side to the other may give you an indicator as well. However, that may be chancy due to old springs!! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: September-19-2011 at 10:04pm
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What about a spring scale, a bottle jack, and a 4x4-of course with a folded towel for padding? ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: September-19-2011 at 10:21pm
Greg, Not a bad idea as long as you can find a scale to handle the load. I understand some state troupers do use portables that they use to weight each axle/dual tire. he needs to get real friendly with a trooper!! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: September-19-2011 at 10:26pm
I wondered about the load too. I thought of it because that how I lifted a corner to adjust my stands. And no, my garage floor ain't a bit level.  ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: bryanandmissy
Date Posted: September-19-2011 at 10:37pm
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I am going to look into getting each wheel on this thing on a separate scale to see if this may be the issue. If it is a waterlogged starboard side, do you guys know that it would be a very obvious difference in weight since most of the water would pool in the lowest part of the hull, concentrating the weight to the center?
And is pulling up the floor the only other way to find out if this is the problem? ------------- Bryan 1988 Martinique B/R Louisville, KY |