78/79 ski-tique rod knocking
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Engine Repair
Forum Discription: Engine problems and solutions
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=23139
Printed Date: September-20-2024 at 11:26pm
Topic: 78/79 ski-tique rod knocking
Posted By: allanonjj
Subject: 78/79 ski-tique rod knocking
Date Posted: August-17-2011 at 3:58pm
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Ok,.... hello all. This is my first post so Im gonna try and make it valid. I bought a ski-tique for $1500 from a buddy thinking I would be able to get the timing right (reverse engine, thought he had it wrong) and have a good running boat. Thats not however what I got myself into. Come to find out there is a rod knocking under load, the fuel tank is about 50% fuel, the rest is water and trash, and because of the dirty fuel tank, Im thinking I will need to replace the carb. The heads say that its a 302 but I seem to recall seeing somewhere on the block that say 289 or something (cant remember the exact cubic inch).
Heres my question: I found this kit on ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ford-Marine-302-MASTER-Engine-Kit-Pistons-Cam-REV-2pc-/170649103500?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item27bb7aac8c and heres a crankshaft http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ford-302-crankshaft-kit-w-bearings-1982-90-15850-/380357391297?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item588f1133c1 Other than the machine work, is there anything else I need to be concerned with when I pull the engine to do the rebuild? Im not a "mechanic" but Ive built several 11 second imports (Hondas) and put a fuel injected vortec 350 in a 2000 s10, along with several other head jobs and what not.. (my point is that I am very mechanicaly inclined) Ive ever worked on a marine engine, not to mention one that spins reverse the normal direction so im just asking for any "heads ups" that I can get from folks who have done or do this kind of rebuild. 1.Is there anything different on the crankshaft of a "reverse" engine? The one in the link above is for a stock 302 car engine so unless someone tells me otherwise I'll be ordering it. 2.What type of carburetor should I put back on? Im sure I could spend a gazillion dollars on the best of the best but Im not trying to win any trophies here. I just want a good running boat with decent fuel economy. I need to be able to have 4 people in the boat and 2 wakeboarding/tubing or whatever. Any links to said carburetor would be gretly appreciated. 3. I know from personal experience with other hobbies that sometimes these "ebay kits" arent quality so if you KNOW that its not, please speak up. 4.Can I use a normal cherry picker to get the engine out of the boat? I suppose I could make a little wooden frame to set the cherry picker on to allow for more vertical lift to clear the sides of the boat if necessary. Like I said before, if there are any "what out for this" things I should kepp an eye out for, please tell me. Thanks in advance! JJ 229-224-4757 |
Replies:
Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: August-17-2011 at 5:07pm
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You might want to check out this thread http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=20029&PN=1&title=302-teardown - 302 Teardown
There are some specifics such as rear main seal differences depending on rotation that you want to think about. For carb you want a MARINE Holley 4160. You can get them at a few different places. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-17-2011 at 5:11pm
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JJ,
Welcome to CCfan. Regarding getting the engine out with an engine hoist, depending on it's lifting height, you may need to take the tire/wheel off one side of the trailer. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: allanonjj
Date Posted: August-17-2011 at 5:48pm
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thanks for the advice on the carb,.. Know where I can get it the cheapest? Ebay?
As for the 302 Teardown thread, It was helpfull with opinions on stroker vs not and which part #s and all but the guy that did that thread didnt do the actual teardown himself. Im going to be pulling the heads and bottom end off the block and taking a bare block to the machine shop. If there are any pesky bolts that like to break off in the head or anything like that or if theres a "trick" to getting the flux capacitor off or something,.. that is what I need to know about. Also, I assume that repair book in there has the torque specs for the heads/mains/lowers etc... If so,.. Ill get it ordered. Thanks again,.. keep it coming please |
Posted By: allanonjj
Date Posted: August-17-2011 at 5:49pm
| will do about the trailer,... Does my engine have a two piece rear seal? |
Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: August-17-2011 at 5:58pm
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As far as the carb, I'd tend to stay off eBay for the most part. Check with SkiDim (which has a 10 % discount if you use code "USA"), Nautiqueparts.com, MyCorrectCraftParts.com or Jody on the site who is FLInboards. You can get them specifically for the 302 vs. the 351 and make sure you go Marine.
Not sure on the main seal question. Hopefully someone else can weigh in on that. I don't know if there's anyway to tell until you've got it apart. |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: August-17-2011 at 6:00pm
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on the carb summit has a good price also...I´d sure check there! ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: allanonjj
Date Posted: August-17-2011 at 6:08pm
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thanks guys.
Heres my boat: 
Is there anything weird you can see from the photos that I should be concerned about? |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: August-17-2011 at 6:13pm
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4150 for a 302
------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: August-17-2011 at 6:14pm
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get rid of the vacuum advance also, its for a car
you need a flyweight advance dist. ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: August-17-2011 at 6:22pm
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Nice looking boat all in all.
+1 on the distributor. I thought a 4150 Holley was a double pumper? I though the 302s just took a different CFM rating of the 4160? |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: August-17-2011 at 6:25pm
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i see lots of non marine part! the dizzy as eric states! and that edelbrick sure its not marine!
you need a flame arrestor, not a air filter! that is some serious hacked boat! rubber fuel hose on the hp side not usgc approved! on the marine thing is safety hazzard! automotive parts such as fuel pump, carb, dizzy will work just fine, but are not leak proof nor ignition protected, so in a bilge and the collection of gas fumes can make your boat blow up!!!! so first off you better start swapping all non marine parts there! ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: August-17-2011 at 6:26pm
that ring replament it creative though  ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: August-17-2011 at 6:32pm
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4150 its indeed a dp! I think the right would be the 4160 on its 450cfm version if you plan on keeping it stock!
------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-17-2011 at 6:39pm
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You had better do a stringer check too!! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: August-17-2011 at 6:45pm
Kap's correct. You want a 450cfm Holley 4160 (with vacuum secondaries). Your engine is a 302... the change from 289 to 302 occurred back in '67-69. ------------- |
kapla wrote:Posted By: allanonjj
Date Posted: August-17-2011 at 8:11pm
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OK,.. SO NOW THATS WHAT iM TALKING ABOUT.
1.I assume "4150 for a 302" means a Holley 4150 carb for the 302? 2. I can tune a fuel map and re-flash it on an ecm but when it comes to carburetors my knowledge is a little on the lacking side. What is the "vacuum advance"? 3. Where can I get a "flyweight advance dist". Is it a really light distributor thats ahead of its class?...lol 4.Ive HEARD of a flame arrestor but dont know what exactly it is. I think it is supposed to keep a backfire from coming up and igniting fuel vapors right? 5."rubber fuel hose on the hp side not usgc approved!" Is that the rubber hose that runs to the back of the carb? Should it be some sort of high pressure hose? If so, where can I get one? What does USGC mean? 6. "that ring replament it creative though" What do you mean by ring replacement? Thank you sooo much! I am soaking this up like a sponge.... well more like a terry cloth (thats a lot to take in all at once,.. lol) |
Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: August-17-2011 at 8:31pm
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1.) 4150 and 4160 are two very similar models of 4 barrel Holley Carburetor. Holley uses modular carbs, so certain things are the same. What's mainly different is the way the secondary barrels open. The 4150 opens them mechanically, and also the second set of barrels have their own accelerator pump, that's how it gets to be called "double pumper."
Most ski boats will have the 4160 vacuum secondary because the secondaries don't open until the conditions are right. If they opened too soon (before the motor is revved up enough) you can get a bog. 2.) Vacuum advance refers to the distributor. You want mechanical for a boat for a couple of reasons. I think the vacuum port is a potential channel for escaped spark. Also, load conditions are different on a boat, and the weighted advance addresses that better. I think it's largely because boats are never "coasting" like a car would. I think the vacuum advance can pile on more advance than a boat motor can handle under load, but I'd happily be corrected with a good explanation. Not sure on that myself. 3.) You can get a good marine (weight advance) dist using any of the parts places above, or by swapping around through this site. 4.)Flame arestor is a boat's version of an air cleaner. You generally don't have dusty air while boating, so this piece is specialized to concentrate on keeping the flash of any backfire at bay. 5.) Different type of fuel line. You wanted hardened line for the fuel that's under pressure from the fuel pump. 6.) I'll leave that for Kap to explain Most of the differences come from the fact that spilled gasoline and escaped vapors have no where to go in the bilge of a boat. In a car, they just excape onto the ground or the open air. That's why the blower is so important to. |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: August-17-2011 at 8:52pm
There is no need for vacuum advance on a marine distributor because boats is always under load (never coasting), thus, timing is 100% dependent on RPM (mechanical advance). In normal street operation, cars see a huge range of different driving conditions, where vacuum advance is necessary. There is a good explanation of how it works http://www.stevesnovasite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11689 - here. Basically, a distributor with vacuum advance would work just fine in a boat- but that feature will never be utilized. The mechanical advance will do it all. However, the fact that the distributor is not marine grade is a major safety problem- and should be replaced with a proper one. The vacuum advance mechanism simply makes it easier to spot. ------------- |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-17-2011 at 9:21pm
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JJ,
Listen to us and not that "buddy" you bought that "basket" case boat from. You actually consider him to be a friend!!   I have got to ask but was he the actual guy who "bastardized" that engine?? Personally, I sure would not ask him for any more advice!! You have a bomb just waiting to happen under that dog house.
Don't forget, considering looking at the pictures as well as the age of the boat, you MUST check out the stringer condition ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: August-17-2011 at 10:32pm
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JJ http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/how-to-rebuild-small-block-ford-engines-tom-monroe/1000071486 - here is a good book on rebuilding a small block Ford. Im not current on reverse rotation cranks,but there was a difference on early ones and it's all in the rear main seal area.When you take it apart, post a picture of where the seal rides on the crank.Someone will know just looking at it if it's the correct crank and you would be way ahead to have it reground. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: August-17-2011 at 10:35pm
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Everything already said is spot on.
Don't get discouraged, we'll get you squared away. I just must repeat your conditions under the hood are serious, Ok those pix make my eyes hurt, Cooter's been everywhere it seems this season! ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: August-17-2011 at 11:50pm
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JJ,
Hopefully you don't take it too hard. I actually feel like for $1,500, you didn't do too bad for a project boat. I mean, the engine needs help, but at least there is an engine. And, all of the automotive grade stuff on there, chances are, you'd be replacing it anyway as part of any refurb/restoration. Some people seem to have a line on deals. But as far as I can tell, the only thing that says Correct Craft on it that you can buy for less than $1,500 is a t-shirt 
|
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-18-2011 at 9:07am
Brian, I think Seb is talking about the "ring and finger" on the pylon. Maybe you missed it but it looks like the PO stuck a hitch pin in it for a 3 point tractor mount!! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-18-2011 at 9:10am
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JJ,
Have you checked the direction that engine spinning? With all that automotive stuff on it, I'm just wondering!!??? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: August-18-2011 at 9:59am
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sorry, meant 450 cfm ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: allanonjj
Date Posted: August-18-2011 at 12:35pm
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Ok,.. I can see this is going to be fun! I love a good challenge.
As for the guy I got it from,.. I asked him a few questions (just general mechanical questions) before I bought the boat and it was plainly obvious that he has NO CLUE about ANYTHING mechanical. This is the same guy that had me meet him to change his tire,... lol I love him to death but a mechanic he IS NOT. He bought the boat from a friend of his (the culprit from which all the automotive parts came about) for $1500 and then had a few of his other buddies "check it out" for him. I hate that it needs some work but from what it looks like I might not be in too bad of shape. After thinking about this for awhile, I think Im just gonna pull the engine, put it on an engine stand, flip it over, and pull the bottom end/crankshaft. I think I may get off with just replacing the crankshaft and bearings, maybe a rod. Im not sure but thats where Im gonna start. Im listening to what everyone is saying about this rear main seal and tell me if I am understanding this correctly,...There are two types of blocks, one has a 1 piece seal and the other has a 2 piece,... right? With that being said,.. are the cranks going to be different? Will the rods in this motor bolt on to a regular stock 302 crank? Also, can I "convert" this block from needing a 2 peice to the "more readily available" 1 peice seal? What is a stringer? You guys dont know how much I appreciate the advice,.. youve already saved me hundreds in mistakes (because I know me lol) and it sounds like maybe even my life! (spark arrestor) THANK YOU |
Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: August-18-2011 at 1:06pm
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Go right to http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=20029&PN=4&title=302-teardown - this page and skip to about halfway down.
Look for the post where it is TRBENJ followed by ReidP, they get into the difference in the rear seals and the wic lines on the crank etc. |
Posted By: allanonjj
Date Posted: August-18-2011 at 1:16pm
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Ok, so I had it backwards,.. the 2 piece is more available.... When I get the engine out and apart I'll take pics and post them up so I'll know which one Ive got.
Still curious on the "stringer". Ive heard of it before but not quite sure what it is and its function. |
Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: August-18-2011 at 1:23pm
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Oh, I forgot.
"Stringer" has nothing to do with the engine. It's part of the structure of the hull of the boat. It's almost like a floor joist, and the major ones run from front to back. Any Correct Craft built before 93 has wooden stringers. And, it's possible for them to get water intrusion, one way or another, and to rot. Pete is suggesting that you check how sold they are before you go too far. That's another whole project. Do-able, but its a project. |
Posted By: allanonjj
Date Posted: August-18-2011 at 1:55pm
| The floor is very sturdy everywhere,.. Even though im not a boat mechanic I knew that if the floors were bad that I didnt wanna take on that type of endeavor. Is there some special way to check on this without ripping the carpet up? |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: August-18-2011 at 1:58pm
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you need lots of boat education!! all the info is around here, do some reading and you will find all the answers.
easiest way to check stringer rot is adjusting the bolts that hold the engine mounts to the boat, if they do adjust firm they give a sligth irea they might be ok. If they turn loose you have rot. This is a very localized way to diagnose though. Also you can tap them with a hammer, they should sound solid, if you feel hollow, well thats bad. Any crack in the fiberglass around the stringer is a bad sign. ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: allanonjj
Date Posted: August-18-2011 at 2:12pm
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Ok,.. Ill check it tonight (floor).
Im also gonna go ahead and pull the motor tonight so maybe I'll be able to post up some good pics and maybe vids of my project. This is what it looks like I'm gonna have to invest up front: 1.holley 4160 MARINE-$150 (on the FS forum here) 2.spark arrestor-$50 (found a couple of used ones on ebay) 3.marine distributor-$120 (once again on the forum) 4.crankshaft/bearings-$150-$300 (depending on if I go with a used one on the forum or if I go with a new one on ebay,.. that all depends though on this rear seal,.. still have ?'s on it but I think I'll wait till I can see it with my own 2 eyes) 5.machine shop work-$150-$300 (depending on if they just do a hone or a bore or are able to turn the crank and get a larger bearing) So between $600 to $900,... thats not all that bad I guess,.. I KNOW there will be more "nickle and dime" things that I'll have to buy like fluids and gaskets and whatnot but im just gonna pretend that they dont exist for now,.. that way it makes me feel a little better about spending this money! 
|
Posted By: skicat2001
Date Posted: August-18-2011 at 2:37pm
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My question is that boat sitting on a non carpeted runners on that trailer there. That will scratch a CC all to hell. Or have I had to much coffee this morning... ------------- 1985 CC 2001-SOLD Lee Michael Johnson |
Posted By: allanonjj
Date Posted: August-18-2011 at 2:47pm
| no,.. you arent seeing things,.. thats gonna be the next thing I do AFTER it is running,.. I cant seem to find the search feature on this forum,.. would someone mind posting in a link to a diy on the runners? That seems like it'd be fairly easy,.. well easy except for getting the boat off the trailer,.. hadnt figured that one out yet either. |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: August-18-2011 at 3:47pm
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marine carb run about $400-500 new...if you get them $150 let me know..
rebuilt units run in the 200-300 range.... ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: allanonjj
Date Posted: August-18-2011 at 4:23pm
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found 2 on here for 100 and 150 plus shipping. Also found this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Holley-3-119-Carb-Rebuild-Kit-Marine-Holley-4160-Kit-/330601558455?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4cf96371b7
Sitting here thinking about this,... why couldnt I just get a 302 short block and bolt on my heads/accessories? If the crankshaft is the same then shouldnt everything else be ok? Ive got a couple of buddies that would almost definitely have a 302 shortblock sitting around. |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: August-18-2011 at 4:24pm
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you need a reverse rotation short block...have you determined yet if you have a RR engine? ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: allanonjj
Date Posted: August-18-2011 at 4:54pm
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Well,.. the one thing that I have failed to mention thus far is that Ive got a buddy of mine who is a boat mechanic,.. and I dont mean one who works on them under his tree in tha back yard,... he worked for a shop near here for 20 years untill he finally opened up his own place about 5 years ago. He has already done me the huge favor of checking the boat out and telling me the issues he sees but Im not about to ask him for any favors nor am I comfortable with paying someone to do the work I can do myself and learn a lot in the process of doing so...... I say all that to say that yes,.. he says it is a reverse rotation,.... that means it rotates to the left,.. is that right?
How are the blocks different if the crank is the same? |
Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: August-18-2011 at 5:02pm
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Actually, "Reverse" is actually right hand. Because, cars typically go to the left. Most boats of your vintage are Reverse/RH.
If you have a 1:1 transmission, and you likely do, take a look at your propeller. You can tell by looking at it which way it will go when the boat is in forward. If the prop looks like it turns clockwise, when looking at it from behind the boat, it is a right had. I think the difference at that point is mainly in the crank, and the seal. Not sure what else? |
Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: August-18-2011 at 5:03pm
| Oh, Camshaft is different to. |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: August-18-2011 at 5:06pm
You need to read the link that Brian posted above. There is no difference in the block RH vs. LH... but you do need to use a matched block/crank. First you need to determine if you have a block/crank with a 1-piece or 2-piece rear main seal. Cranks/blocks of different styles do not interchange. 1-piece seal cranks are NOT rotation specific, but do take specific RH seals (the seals have RR wick lines). 2-piece cranks are rotation specific (wick lines are on the crank) and use bi-directional seals. If your block is junk, then the easiest thing to do would be to get a modern-ish 302 from a junkyard, from which you'll use both the block and crank. Get the special reverse rotation rear main seal. Brian alluded to the correct way to reference rotation... in the marine world, it is always "as viewed from the rear". IE, reverse rotation = RH = clockwise (from the rear). If viewed from the front (looking at the pulleys), then a RH (RR) engine will spin counterclockwise. ------------- |
Posted By: allanonjj
Date Posted: August-18-2011 at 5:15pm
AWE-FREAKING-SOME! Thats what I was thinking! (I know about the cams being special too,.. Id use my heads/cams and all) So if I can get a 302 shortblock I SHOULD be able to bolt it to my heads and tranny with the proper seal right? This could be REALLY good news as I just got off the phone with a buddy who has a stroker bottom end that i might can pick up pretty cheap,.. he was building the motor for his mustang and it got totalled before he was done so.... thats a possible yaaaaaaaaay!!!!! If anyone knows any reason why I shouldnt go ahead scoop up this bottom end please speak now! otherwise Ill be at his place tonight! |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: August-18-2011 at 5:20pm
Correct.
So long as "bottom end" includes the block itself, you should be good... because it is unlikely the crank will fit in your block. Might want to call Race City Marine and see if you can get one of those special RR 302 seals too... I believe they have some left. Stroker motors work great in these boats, but you wont be taking advantage of the power potential with the stock heads and cam. FWIW! ------------- |
Posted By: allanonjj
Date Posted: August-18-2011 at 6:41pm
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yes, i mean the entire bottom end,.. everything except the heads and accessories.
Good news, I just talked to Paul at Race City Marine,.. MAN was he helpfull!! I am on the right track,.. After I pull the motor,.. Im gonna snap pics and he said he can say " this is what you need". Thats the type of instruction I like to have,... lol. I found the search button (man do I feel stupid) and have done a few of them. I am still looking for an informative post on replacing the carpet on the trailer "runners" and a post on how to sand and buff the shine back in the paint. I have a sand blaster and a SATA paint gun so the trailer should be a breeze to bring back to life,.. Id just like to know the proper steps to restoring the shine in the gel coat,... for instance, start with a orbital sander and 500 grit wet and then gradually step up from there or whatever..... Im such a nerd that I have everything planned out in order so far from replacing the short block to replacing the guages,... lol Im fairly impatient, I like to get things done now so I hope to get a good start on this by tonight or at the latest this weekend,.. Ive got to do a timing belt on my friends accord before Friday but after that this is going to occupy most of my spare time. Im really looking forward to getting my hands dirty and diving in to this new found hobby. Some of the boats Ive seen on here have really got me inspired to get mine up and running/looking good so here goes! |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: August-18-2011 at 6:50pm
 don´t forget to take load of pictures and post them!! we like pictures!
------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: August-18-2011 at 6:51pm
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now a little question..you buddy the boat mechanic..did he ever menction something about all the non marine stuff in that engine?
------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-18-2011 at 6:55pm
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Was it the Fords or the Chevs that you also need to assemble the pistons in backwards on a RR? No big deal with a short block but "some assembly required"!!! It is due to the offset on the wrist pin and it's there to help with piston slap. ( correct me if I'm wrong guys) On a stroker, due to the longer stroke, I would think piston slap is a concern. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: allanonjj
Date Posted: August-18-2011 at 7:01pm
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buddy-non marine parts,.. yes he mentioned it but when he told me about the rod knock he said that the carb and distributor were the least of my concerns at this point,.. If I would have let him do all the work Im sure he wouldve switched everything out but I dont want to take advantage of his time.
Hadnt thought about piston slap and reversing them,... that makes a lot of "cents" to me,.. If the rotation is backwards then the piston would be "slapping" the other side of the cylinder wall so yeah,.. I think your right. Im gonna research this and I'll tell you what I find out. As for pictures,. I plan on taking a butt load of them if its ok (moderators?) |
Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: August-18-2011 at 7:04pm
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There's a lot of info about restoring gel coat and stuff in this recent http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21867&PN=1&title=deposit-on-another-86 - thread . Also a piece about getting a boat off a trailer without water.
I'm sure there's tons more out there, but I happen to have read that one. |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: August-18-2011 at 7:22pm
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Welcome aboard JJ. I'm not much help with Fords, but I read through this and see that you're a whole day.5 into this. You've gotten some info from some of the Ford guys here, but if you give this thread a few days, you'll hear from a few more.
Again, I don't know about Ford; the Chevy/PCM 454 330 has stock offset pistons and they need a flip because of the offset. I also notice specialty pistons(for Chevy anyway) tend not to have an offset. Some domed pistons have to go a certain way to fit in the head, etc per the manufacturer's destructions. Good luck; you sound excited. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: August-18-2011 at 7:28pm
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You have an atypical trailer. It may need its own thread.
After you have the engine out, you can use the lifting rings in the front and back(fore and aft) to move the boat off of that trailer. Until you know what's under there, I wouldn't want to lift the boat with the engine in it, and I definately would crawl under and inspect the anchoring points on those lifting rings. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: allanonjj
Date Posted: August-18-2011 at 7:34pm
| ok,... Im gonna feel stupid in a few days for asking this but,... What is a "lifting ring"? |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: August-18-2011 at 7:42pm
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It's the chrome ring on the top of the bow and on top of the stern. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: August-18-2011 at 7:44pm
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It's what those seat belts are tied to in the back and right in front of the scoop in the front. Go underneath and make sure they are solid to the lower hull. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: allanonjj
Date Posted: August-18-2011 at 8:00pm
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ok,.. gotcha,.. does that mean (if they are solid) that I can use an auto lift to raise the boat off the trailer?
Im sure someone on here (if not most all of you) are familiar with Earl's a/n fittings? If so, could someone give me a parts list of what I need to get the fuel line to the carb within "regulation"? That'd save a LOT of time on my part if someone has already done this. I found my carb already,.. Its gonna be $100 plus shipping,.. the rebuild kit is gonna be around $45 shipped. Has anyone ever rebuilt a 4160 before? How long did it take you? anything I should be carefull for? Ive gotta say guys that this forum has to be the best, most friendly and informative one I've ever joined. Ive learned more pertinant information in the last 2 days than I wouldve gathered from 6 months of trial and error on my own. I REALLY appreciate all the good feedback! |
Posted By: allanonjj
Date Posted: August-18-2011 at 8:15pm
| Ive been in "boat mode" all day,.. cant wait to get home and get started. I havent seen any pictures of a ski tique or nautique without all the factory lettering on the side. Id like to see a "plain" boat without all that,... any pics anyone? I like the "clean" look. Ive gone emblemless and shaved antenna holes and all on a couple cars Ive built and it looks good in my opinion so if its not too hard to do Id like to try it. any pics? |
Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: August-18-2011 at 11:51pm
This is how the previous owner of my boat had mine. But mine is all white Gel to start with, with just decals. A guy at the 2010 NE reunion knew my boat from when it belonged to the previous, previous, owner, and that guy had it done up like a zebra. In very specific lights you can still see the outlines a little. I wouldn't do that though. I wouldn't do the zebra thing.
|
Posted By: Luchog
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 12:28am
This is a hole can of worms Pete, I've talked with people saying you need to turn the pistons and some saying you dont. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2095" rel="nofollow - 1980 Ski Nautique Commander 351W |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 2:41am
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It's been so long I don't remember,but I don't think I reversed mine,would not have known to do it.I think it just Chevy's that need to be reversed. Joe or Tim will know for sure. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: storm34
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 4:45am
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Brian...I absolutely love your boat. If you decide to sell you HAVE to call me! ------------- |
Posted By: allanonjj
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 11:33am
So I assume your boat had "Ski tique" on the side of it before right?,... Do you just sand all the way through the lettering and stripes? Im learning about gel coat and it would make sense to do that,... however i dont know how far you can sand into it before its too far. |
Posted By: allanonjj
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 11:42am
Snapped a few more pics last night. I didnt end up getting off work till 8 and then had to pick the boat up so I didnt get to get my hands dirty at all,.... That sucks too because all day yesterday I was exited to see how bad the crank looked. Oh well,.. heres a few more pics,.. and more advice will be noted and taken to heart.
 
|
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 12:03pm
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I would highly recommend AGAINST removing the lettering from the sides. The big painted logos were one of the coolest things on the CC's from the '70's.
Concentrate on making the boat ready for the water rather than cosmetics. The longer you have the boat, and the more Correct Crafts you look at, the more you'll come to appreciate original details. ------------- |
Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 12:21pm
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Thanks Chris, I'll certainly keep you in mind if I ever do. There would probably need to be a really appealing chance to upgrade. I'm always kind of on the lookout for blue and white Excal powered 196s.
JJ, yeah, mine was a different story, a.) I didn't do that, the PO did and b.) the detailing was always decals, not paint. I totally agree with Tim, you have a nice classic on your hands with some work and you should be careful about keeping it true to form. |
Posted By: allanonjj
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 12:23pm
|
Yeah, you are probably right,.. When I get into a hobby I usually go all out so like normal I'm planning out the next few months of this boats life already. I THINK I have the running part beat,.. In theory at least. It'll probably end up taking more time and $ than I am thinking right now anyways.
Brainstorming,.. A lady's husband that I work with has a 460 marine engine that he will sell me the whole thing for $500,.. It IS reverse rotation. I don't know enough about this to make an educated guess,... Will it fit? Will it bolt up to my tranny? |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 12:44pm
Oh that is a guarantee! I would say that a big block in a 16' hull is a bad idea. It is very unlikely that it will fit under your motorbox, first of all. It will physically mate up to the tranny, but big blocks usually came paired with beefier 72C transmissions, for good reason. You'd also have to reprop it significantly in order to take advantage of all the extra torque. Theres no guarantee the larger engine would physically fit in the hull, either... I know someone tried to put a big block Chrysler in an early SN and the bellhousing or oil pan hit the hull. The 302 is a great match to the smaller/lighter boats... if you want more power, its easy and inexpensive to build one up to the 275-300hp range, which makes for a VERY fun ride, without the huge weight penalty a big block would have. ------------- |
Posted By: allanonjj
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 12:54pm
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Yeah, I figured it would be to big for the space allotted but I wasnt sure. That would be a butt-load of torque though! Im not trying to spend any unnecessary $ yet,. at least not untill i get it running good. If the opportunity arose to get something for nothing, I would jump on it but as far as doing bottom end work and cams and all, Im not ready for that yet. It would be fun though to have a 350hp boat though!
Damn,.. I havent even gotten it in the water yet and Im already talking about making it faster...lol |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 1:30pm
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JJ,
I too am wondering why you would want to remove the hull graphics. From the pictures they look to be in very good shape to the point that they have been redone recently and yes, they are as Tim mentioned the coolest thing about that era. Many have spent lots of time and effort to restore their graphics. I also agree that a big block is a bad idea. "a butt-load of torque" yes but how would you get it to the water? Proping would be a problem!! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: allanonjj
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 2:08pm
|
8122pbrainard
Remember Im a noob in this
I like the way that "naked" boat from above looks,.. everyone has their own opinion I suppose and maybe mine will change but I like that look. This is coming from someone who hasnt even ran their boat yet so my opinion is very subject to change. This is my last car I built: 
So I hope you can see why that boat was apealing to me. lol |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 3:04pm
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Thats a clean looking Integra. I think an all-white 2012 Nautique 200 would look pretty cool as well, debadged and all.
I think a vintage Ski Tique looks better with the original graphics. ------------- |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 3:11pm
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on a side note..those 70 boat the graphic are painted while the 90s were decals!
so to remove you need to do some sanding!... ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 3:24pm
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JJ,
If you do decide to remove the graphics, I have a suggestion. Trace them for the future. Then a sign shop could scan them into their computer, clean them up and cut what's called a Gerber Mask. It's a stencil system for painting they cut on their vinyl cutter. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: allanonjj
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 3:31pm
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Got some GREAT news! After calling around go all my car buddies I am getting a complete 302 HO motor that came of of a 1998 Mercury Mountaineer for $50! It's a complete LONGBLOCK with the H.O. heads! It had a blown head gasket so I can't just swap cams and all but still,.. That SOUNDS like a hell of a deal! I'm thinking I should still replace the lower bearings and rings. If I do all that AND have the block honed I'll still come out ahead,.. Just as long as this block will bolt up!
Those heads aren't the ones everyone keeps talking about are they? The GT heads or whatever they are called? |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 3:43pm
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gt40p heads... ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: allanonjj
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 4:26pm
Ok,.. thats good right? Does that mean I can swap over the cams out of my heads and it'll work? I hear a lot of guys on here talking about how great the gt40p heads flow.... Did I just luck up? Im gonna go get the motor tonight and I guess go ahead and break it down for the machine shop,.. If I am reading everything correctly I will need to order a new set of head gaskets, oil pan gaskets, crank/rod bearings (after the machine shop says they are ok) and probably an intake gasket,.. um,.. are there any extra "cam gaskets" of anything I should order? |
Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 4:46pm
|
Let the gurus weight in. My only concern would be nuances about the modern block.
Is there a place cut out to run an old fashioned mechanical fuel pump on a modern block? IDK How about the distributor? And still keep in mind, the Truck Engine will be a lefty. You still have to make it a righty. |
Posted By: allanonjj
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 5:05pm
|
not sure at all about the fuel pump,.. Im not opposed at all to putting in an electric pump,.. like maybe a warlbro 255 or something,.. unless there is a reason why I cant do that.
I THINK the distributor will be fine on a 98 model wont it? Will wait for more Ford Gurus. I Just got off the phone with a guy from this site : http://marineengineparts.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/page568.html He says that he has "marinized" a few 302's and the problem comes into play when you start looking at how the crank is balanced,.. if it is internal or at the flywheel.... I dont know which is which but if anyone on here does, please speak up. It sounds like if the crank on my old motor is balanced internally and so is the new motor I should be ok,... that is,... so long as everything else bolts up (which I dont see how it wouldnt) |
Posted By: allanonjj
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 6:07pm
| Found a marine 351 with the distributor and a carb for $1300,.. has 800 hours on it from a reputable shop,..compression at 95-105 between cylinders (that sounds a lil too good to be true right?) Thats still more than I am trying to spend to begin with,.. WHY ARE THERE SO MANY OPTIONS!!!!???? |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 6:36pm
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You need to slow down a bit.
A distributor from a '98 302 automotive engine is NOT what you want. You need a MARINE unit in the name of safety. If you cant find a good used one, this is one piece worth buying new. You can get a nice new Mallory Marine points dizzy for $200. What would your intent be with the marine 351w? Some parts would swap over to your 302, others would not (like the distributor). If you planned to use it as-is, then you need to make sure its a RH engine. $1300 is a bit steep for a used engine- and if its a lefty, forget it. If its a righty, then it would be a better platform to build from if you want more power since it has more cubes... but out of the box, youre taking a weight penalty and only gaining 20hp- so $1300 would be better spent on your 302 if you want more power. The GT40p heads that came on that Explorer motor are good ones. It will cost you a few bucks less to have them rebuilt (valve job, resurface) than it would be to buy ones already rebuilt ($400ish). For $50, grab them and pray they arent cracked or have bent valves, etc. As far as the balancing goes, someone else may chime in on that... but you definitely need to match components up correctly- namely the flywheel, balancer and presumably the crank. ------------- |
Posted By: allanonjj
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 6:53pm
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[QUOTE=TRBenj] You need to slow down a bit.
QUOTE] lol,.. If I had a dollar for every time . . . Yeah I hear ya. "I can't wait to have patience!" 
Oh, and $1300 includes a MARINE distributor and carburetor. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 6:56pm
JJ, An electric fuel pump needs to be marine rated/ignition protected as well. You sure don't want more automotive junk on that engine!!
I'm going to let the carb experts chime in but there are other issues with putting an electric on it. BTW, I too feel you need to slow down here!! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 7:05pm
jajaj I was thinking the same! ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 7:51pm
Keep dialing back on the throttle! Again, the 351w and 302 do NOT take the same distributor. ------------- |
Posted By: allanonjj
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 8:12pm
Benj,... I know,.. He was gonna give me the dist that came on the 351. I have talked to my boat mechanic friend who choked a little when I told him the price and 800 hours so I guess the 351 is out. |
Posted By: allanonjj
Date Posted: August-20-2011 at 4:47pm
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took a few pics this morning with my GoPro camera,..I am going to start pulling the motor and all tonight, hope to have it down to bare block by Tomorrow afternoon. If you guys see anything alarming (well,.. other than the other 10 things that youve already told me about) let me know.
Thanks again 
 
 
What is supposed to cover the battery? I hope I am missing some sort of cover. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-20-2011 at 6:05pm
Yes, you are missing the cover. It should be a ply carpeted and "T" molding around the edge piece. With the extra pictures, I again stress the importance of checking the stringers. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: allanonjj
Date Posted: August-20-2011 at 6:22pm
Oh yeah,.. meant to say it already but Mack (boat mechanic) checked them for me and said that they are very solid,.. he used those "rings" and picked the whole boat off the trailer and examined the hull and said that the boat is structurally sound. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-20-2011 at 6:47pm
JJ, Hopefully he did check the below deck condition of the hardware on the lifting rings before lifting. CC had a tendency to use carbon steel that is know to rust out and, the mount in the transom rots!! Somehow I'm getting this funny feeling that between your "mechanic" and yourself you are not getting the true "big picture" here!!! He checked out the stringers? How? Did he check the lifting ring below deck hardware? How? Keep in mind that you did not even know what a lifting ring was!-- Does you mechanic? It sure doesn't sound that way since he didn't tell you about them!!! tell us more about your "mechanic" So far, all he's said is the non marine components are not good. Any good marine mechanic will refuse to even work on an engine that doesn't meet USCG specs!! You're not dealing with this guy hopefully!! AKA; Cooter!!
 ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: politicallycorrect
Date Posted: August-20-2011 at 7:44pm
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JJ, welcome aboard! If you are serious about getting that boat ship shape you are in the right spot! I a newbie to the boating world as well as you.
I bought a 72 southwind knowing it needed an engine or at least a rebuild to get it going. I was told by the PO that the floors were "very solid". Boy was that wrong. In removing the engine I found the lag bolts holding the motor mounts to the stringers they would just spin and spin. I had to pry and twist to remove them. This is the first sign of rotting stringers. I decided to bite the bullet and fix the boat right. I've since cut out my floor and found secondaries and bulkheads that are completely rotten. Under the floatation foam there is about two inches of pooled water. If I've learned one thing on this forum is LISTEN TO PETE(especially about checking stringer condition!!!). Get on those lag bolts with a ratchet and see how they feel. Any thing that is wrong with that boat the collective knowledge on this site can steer you to make it BETTER than new. Scott ------------- Skin grows back...fiberglass doesn't!! |
Posted By: allanonjj
Date Posted: August-20-2011 at 8:01pm
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As for Mack (mechanic),.. I trust him. He has been working on all types of boats for 20+ years. He has an entire wall of certifications that he has gotten over the years and so far everything that you guys have said, he has told me at one time or another. Im not sure exacty how he checked the rings but he said he did adn I believe him. As for working with the non marine parts, he said that he would definitely replace the carb, spark arrestor and distributor when I pull the motor so he "concurs" with all of you.
When I pull the motor (hopefully tonight) Im gonna check the stringers myself. By the way, can I take the engine mount bolts out with an impact gun? Should I have the wight of the engine "suspended" by the cherry picker BEFORE I remove the mount bolts? My PLAN is to take a BUNCH of progress pics as I go along so you guys can tell me what to do and what not to do. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-20-2011 at 9:00pm
Cooter probably doesn't have a 4 point socket!!! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: allanonjj
Date Posted: August-22-2011 at 12:35pm
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ok,.. so I finally got the time to pull the engine yesterday. Getting it disconnected and off the mounts was a breeze,.. getting it OUT of the boat though proved to be more hassle than I bargained for. I dont know what I was thinking by trying to lug around a 302 suspended 6 foot off the ground on a cherry picker IN THE GRASS!!! lol,... I had gone through all the steps mentally except for that one. After about 30 mins of tugging/pulling I decided it was easier to move the boat out from under the engine than move the engine out over the sides of the boat.
Alright, so now the engine is perched on the engine stand waiting to be disassembled. I plan on getting on that tonight and tomorrow (day off). I hope to have the crank up at the machine shop by lunch tomorrow and if Im lucky, have the crank back by the end of next week. Ive got a fisheye camera with a head strap that Im gonna wear as I dismantle the engine so that I can go back and watch it if I get confused when re-assemling it. I'll upload the video to photobucket and provide a link if all goes well. Wish meluck! This will be my 1st Ford "experience". |
Posted By: storm34
Date Posted: August-22-2011 at 2:51pm
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Sounds like a fun video to watch. Can't wait to see the build! ------------- |
Posted By: allanonjj
Date Posted: August-22-2011 at 2:52pm
| What all is involved with converting the boat to a standard rotation engine? Looking at the prop shaft and all it looks like it would be fairly easy to do,.. maybe a little more expensive but I think the parts would be much more available. Not saying that Im gonna try to do it (unless it is really easy or something),.. mainly just my curiosity taking over. |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: August-23-2011 at 1:17am
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Allan - Converting to LH rotation is not difficult (at least from the flywheel back). The transmission pump is changed & a LH prop is needed.
But there are 2 other impacts that you need to consider - the boat will list when the driver alone is runnning the boat, & the boat's resale value will be reduced. Fixing what you have would be the best alternative in the long run, IMO. ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: August-23-2011 at 11:26am
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Like Chris said- but you'll also need a specific LH starter and distributor, in addition to the prop.
You may save a few bucks on the rear main seal and you'll have a few more options on the cam, but otherwise its no harder or more expensive to build a righty. If you have to replace the aforementioned parts (starter, dist, prop) then things can start to get pretty expensive. The listing and handling issues mentioned above are the reasons why the boat came with a RH prop in the first place. I would strongly encourage you to keep what you have. ------------- |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: August-23-2011 at 2:22pm
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BTW ditch that fuel pump! its also automotive! ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: allanonjj
Date Posted: August-24-2011 at 1:13am
| Ok, so I originally thought when I woke up this morning (on my day "off") I would spend 2-3 hours disassembling the 302,.. I even used the aforementioned fisheye camera to record the progress. When I finally got the crankshaft out and looked at the rod/main bearings, it is evident that this engine has NEVER been rebuilt. It had two spun bearings and pretty much ALL the rest were worn completely the hell out! So after much deliberation, I ordered a complete longblock from Rapido Marine today. I should have it sometime eithe the end of this week or early/middle next week. I hope to have her in the water in three weeks from now at the latest. I am ordering a marine carb, spark arrestor, distributor, water pump, and valve cover gaskets tomorrow! So much for the cheap route. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-24-2011 at 8:33am
What rotation? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |