Sounds like a week battery
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Boat Maintenance
Forum Discription: Discuss maintenance of your Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=23150
Printed Date: November-19-2024 at 6:11pm
Topic: Sounds like a week battery
Posted By: 7golfman
Subject: Sounds like a week battery
Date Posted: August-18-2011 at 12:51am
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First of all I am a new Nautique owner. I purchased a 97 and while test driving it, it appeared to me to have a week battery when starting. The seller said the battery was five years old. I bought the boat because it ran great. Before getting the boat home I purchase a new battery knowing that was the problem. When starting the boat it still sounds like a week battery. I have had the boat out 5 times sinse owning it and it has never not started. Just sounds weak when starting. Any ideas? Oh the boat set for a 2 summers not used at all. Only 102 hours on the 97.
------------- 7golfman |
Replies:
Posted By: Keeganino
Date Posted: August-18-2011 at 1:04am
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Welcome to the site. Take some time and fill out the diary section and post some pics of your new ride. Many of us on here are on a first name basis and you have found the best resource anywhere to troubleshoot your problem.
You did not get a deep cycle marine battery did you? This is a common mistake. You want a regular automotive starting battery. Don't let them sell you on any kind of "marine" battery. It is often recommended to beef up your battery cables to a thicker gauge. Corrosion on the contact surfaces can make a big difference in battery performance as well. Clean and tighten all of your connections. Grounding is a popular electrical problem as well. Others will chime in who have more experience, but thats were I would start. ------------- "working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4897" rel="nofollow - 1973 Skier |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-18-2011 at 1:12am
The Deep cycle BIG mistake!!!!!  Yes Keegan, my very first thought!!------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 7golfman
Date Posted: August-18-2011 at 1:22am
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It is not a Deep Cycle. Should it have been? Will a deep cycle help starting? I thought it would be cranking amps. Any help? By the way this is an awsome forum. thanks. ------------- 7golfman |
Posted By: Keeganino
Date Posted: August-18-2011 at 1:28am
------------- "working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4897" rel="nofollow - 1973 Skier |
Keeganino wrote:Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: August-18-2011 at 1:29am
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No, no. If you got an automotive battery, you did well. This is one of the few exceptions were using an automotive part is alright. It's not just ok, it's preferred.
What are some other details about the engine? I think by 97, there were a bunch of different options. IE, fuel injection vs. carb. stuff like that. Also, this is just a regular turn key, right? I know some of the newer ones have fancy push button start etc. Worth checking all of your major (and minor) connections for tightness and cleanliness. |
Posted By: Keeganino
Date Posted: August-18-2011 at 1:34am
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Sounds like you have the right battery. Time to break out the multimeter and see what's eating up your juice. If your not getting a solid 12 volts at the starter you know you have an issue in between the battery and starter. I used to have to crank the starter for several seconds before it would catch, but after I replaced the battery cables with thicker gauge wire I barely turn the key all the way and it jumps to life. Good winter project. ------------- "working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4897" rel="nofollow - 1973 Skier |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-18-2011 at 9:30am
I agree on getting heavier gauge cables in there. Copper is expensive and the OEM's have a tendency to go real light. But first, do check all your connections especially on the battery. Use a wire type battery post cleaner.
 ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: August-18-2011 at 9:57am
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seeing it sat for 2 years, i would pull the block ground and any other connections and clean ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: 7golfman
Date Posted: August-18-2011 at 7:39pm
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Thanks for the info. connections will get cleaned today. ------------- 7golfman |
Posted By: 7golfman
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 1:11am
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Ok I cleaned all of the connections. Like a dummy I did not take the cables of the battery and when taking the hot wire off the starter I shorted it to the boat frame. I then disconnected the battery. I did not think much about it and kept cleaning hot and ground connections. when put it all back together it sounded like a extremely week battery with the gauges jumping back and forth. The motor would not turn over. Im lost. ------------- 7golfman |
Posted By: 7golfman
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 1:18am
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Im starting to think something is pulling the battery down. I am putting a slow charge on it tonight and will give it a try tomorrow. Should the battery show more than 12 volts at the starter. I am getting 12.9 volts. If it is a electrical problem any tips on troubleshooting. Any help is appreciated... ------------- 7golfman |
Posted By: Jllogan
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 1:24am
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you dont have anything else on while trying to start it do you? Sounds like you are getting enough juice to your starter. Why do you think its weak? It always starts doesnt it? Mine doesnt turn over very fast but it starts quick and always starts. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5792&sort=&pagenum=1" rel="nofollow - 1986 Ski Nautique 2001 |
Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 1:26am
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I don't know that a quick short like that would kill the battery. As long as you didn't trip a breaker or something, and that wouldn't result in a slow crank, that would result in nothing happening.
Take some pictures if you can. Any remnants of old stereo equipment, or questionable installations of add on gear? Just curious, it does eventually start, right? And, after you've had it running for a while and its nice and warm: If you shut it off then, and re-start, does it crank stronger than before, weaker than before, or the same? |
Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 1:27am
| A timing too far advanced could cause a slow crank as well, right? We can cross that bridge when we come to it. I'd think that would be more noticeable with a warmed motor. |
Posted By: 7golfman
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 1:34am
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It will not crank at all now. I thought I would clean all of the electrical connections because it appeared to me to start weak. I have done something or the battery has weakend. ------------- 7golfman |
Posted By: 7golfman
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 1:37am
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I should not have messed with it. It started the last time i had it on the lake. Just started weak. ------------- 7golfman |
Posted By: 62 wood
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 2:21am
It sounds like it would have been a matter of time before leaving you stranded on the water anyway.... What about the starter itself? Could it be bad/have a short? Also make sure the starter is grounded to block good, no paint or rust/corrosion.... Can you jump across the starter relay/selenoid? What happens? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1117&sort=&pagenum=6" rel="nofollow - 64 American Skier 62 Classic.. 73 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: Ed
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 3:00am
| Do you hear a click at the back of the engine when you turn the key, and nothing else happens? If so, that is commonly mistaken as a battery problem, but is normally a bad starter relay. There should be a plastic box on the back of the engine with a red circuit breaker on it. The starter relay is under there.(that is if you didn't already check there). |
Posted By: KFD14
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 5:06am
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As far as volts goes... a 12 volt battery is actually at a minimum charge if it shows 12 volts. Or I should say that it is at around a 50% charge. You should never let the battery get below that in a resting state. A fully charged battery will actually read somewhere around 12.6 or slightly higher. A battery that is let rest below a 50% charge will have a significantly shorter life. This is more applicable to RV batteries as your alternator will recharge your battery effectively if used primarily for starting the motor. This deep cycling would be more of a concern if you routinely sit on the lake listening to the sterio for long periods with short runs with the engine running.
Sounds like volts is not your problem just thought you might find this useful down the road. ------------- %20http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4380" rel="nofollow - 83 2001 SN |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 9:01am
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I suggest getting the battery load tested to see if it is damaged from a deep draw.
Yes, as Ed mentioned, the start relay could be bad as well. Disconnect the + battery cable, turn the key so the relay energizes and get a Ohm reading between the two cable studs. You sould have a near zero Ohm reading. If not, the contact set inside is bad causing a high resistance and a voltage drop. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 10:19am
| Pete, the relay can still energize with one of the battery cabled disconnected? |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 11:03am
Woops!! I hadn't had enough coffee yet this morning!! Thanks for catching that.
Ok, remove the cable from the relay going to the starter. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Jllogan
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 11:25am
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Here is what is looks like in case you dont already know.
%20 - http://www.nautiqueparts.com/solenoidstarterrelay.aspx Basically the ingnition (key) sends 12 volts to one of those little studs on there which completes the circuit from the large left stud to the right stud (or whichever one is connected to starter) causing the starter to turn over. Its like a switch that turns the starter on. You need to figure out where in the sequence you are not getting juice. If when you either turn the key or jump the two posts together you have at least 12 volts on the wire that goes to the starter, but it wont turn over, then you starter is shot. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5792&sort=&pagenum=1" rel="nofollow - 1986 Ski Nautique 2001 |
Posted By: 7golfman
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 11:45am
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Could the starter relay cause the gauges to jump around when the key is switched on? ------------- 7golfman |
Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 12:27pm
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Any chance you could post some pics of your gauges and some wiring and stuff? A quick video of the gauges jumping around would be awesome if possible.
Do the gauges do a little start-up sequence, like some cars or it more like poltergeist? The poltergeist scenerio would point to a bad ground/grounds somewhere and that can cause a host of problems. I know the early 90's boats, are notorious for undersized wiring going to the dash. Not sure how long that carried through. |
Posted By: 62 wood
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 2:14pm
Do they jump when switch is in run, or when you have key in "start" position? A bad ground situation can do all sorts of wierd things to other electrical components(lights,gauges,etc) You might also consider taking the starter off and have it tested. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1117&sort=&pagenum=6" rel="nofollow - 64 American Skier 62 Classic.. 73 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 2:26pm
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starter might be a little tired..probably need to be clean at least...
inspect all connections first and battery of course, relay etc....then I would lean to the starter it self.... I`ve been there, replaced battery, cables, relay, etc, nothing, it was heavy ..finally had to rebuilt the starter...not it turn like a champ.. ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: martin 74
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 3:57pm
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I had intermittent starting problems this spring. I got lucky and found that the battery terminals were cheap and worn out. Since the battery tops are tapered it was hard see if the the terminals were really making contact even though they were as tight as I could make them. Funny, I flipped over the positive terminal and she fired right up. Got away only spending a few bucks. You're in good hands here. Good luck. Post some pics.
Rich |
Posted By: Jllogan
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 4:22pm
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jumpy guages indicate bad grounds. Several have had issues with that, self included. I cleaned up a few connections and it got better. However occasionally mine still does it. When I tear the boat apart this winter for a new floor I will run a new dash supply. Its a pain to work up under there with the drivers seat in. I did it some and had my fill. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5792&sort=&pagenum=1" rel="nofollow - 1986 Ski Nautique 2001 |
Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 4:42pm
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Here's my http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21901 - Post with Pics on adding a new dash ground.
Some have suggested running duplex (positive and negative double) wire in order to ad a new positive at the same time. The ground alone helped things a lot and is the simpler as far as wiring logic. I think I'll be getting in there again and adding a positive feed as well though. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 4:52pm
Not really. The ground on a gauge is only there for the internal lighting. The ground is at the senders. Maybe you were cleaning up the + (hot) connections. Yes, that will do it. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 5:03pm
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Ok, Pete, I've been trying to get to the bottom of this one for a little while.
So, in essence, is temp gauge basically just an Ohm meter and the temp sensor is just a variable resister? The positive feeds both the lighting, and the circuit that allows the sensor to work? A week positive would also cause bad gauge readings? |
Posted By: Jllogan
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 5:04pm
I guess I was saying a bad ground somewhere in the chain, not necessarily on the back of the guage. I didnt mess with those, but I did clean up the terminal strips. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5792&sort=&pagenum=1" rel="nofollow - 1986 Ski Nautique 2001 |
Posted By: Jllogan
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 5:05pm
Also I spelled "Gauge" wrong so thats two mistakes. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5792&sort=&pagenum=1" rel="nofollow - 1986 Ski Nautique 2001 |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 5:15pm
Brian, Yes, yes and yes! 
Justin, the only sender that could have a bad ground is the fuel gauge sender. It would be bad from the engine to the tank. Both the oil pressure sender and the temperature sender are screwed directly to the engine block. That is the ground!! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Jllogan
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 5:18pm
What about the voltmeter? ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5792&sort=&pagenum=1" rel="nofollow - 1986 Ski Nautique 2001 |
Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 5:19pm
 >> >> >>
Ok, now I get it. Thanks Pete. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 6:50pm
Justin, You're correct on the volt meter. It's the only one that has a ground source under the dash. Well, the hour meter does too but it won't bounce around it's needle!! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Jllogan
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 7:09pm
YES!!! Got one right. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5792&sort=&pagenum=1" rel="nofollow - 1986 Ski Nautique 2001 |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 7:51pm
 Now, if you go back to the late 70's, you'll find amp meters instead of volt meters. No ground on them. It was hot in with heavy gauge wire rated to the alternator output and hot out to everything else on the boat.------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Keeganino
Date Posted: August-19-2011 at 10:47pm
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This has been a good read. This winter I want to re-wire everything. I have a bunch of "get it through the weekend" fixes under the dash, plus I want to fully understand it, which for me means that I need to actually do it. What is it that Lombardi said? "Pursue perfection and you may achieve excellence". ------------- "working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4897" rel="nofollow - 1973 Skier |
Posted By: 7golfman
Date Posted: August-20-2011 at 1:53am
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All,
It is fixed. Two days of work and it should have been a 5 minute fix. The ground terminal to the battery one of those that is pre-made was the problem. The connections were as clean as they could be. It was a last resort before taking it to a repair shop. I cut the pre-made connector off and stripped the ground wire back. Touched the copper to the battery and the boat fired. Thanks so much for the info everyone. ------------- 7golfman |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-20-2011 at 9:44am
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I'm assuming this was on the main ground cable to the battery. Be careful of what type of repair cable end you use otherwise you'll end up with the same problem. There are some pretty decent ones that use a compression type end (just like a compression tube fitting) that goes around the complete cable and preferred. Then there's the repair ends that have a simple two bolt strap that clamps onto the cable. These do not last that long since they leave lots of the bare copper exposed. Dielectric grease helps big time. A new ground cable and of a heavier gauge would be my suggestion. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |