Transmission replacement
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Engine Repair
Forum Discription: Engine problems and solutions
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=23238
Printed Date: November-19-2024 at 3:22pm
Topic: Transmission replacement
Posted By: lison
Subject: Transmission replacement
Date Posted: August-24-2011 at 1:43am
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Thanks for any help, guys.
'Got a 1984 2001 Ski Nautique with a 351 Ford and Warner 1:1 Velvet drive transmission. Went out tonight and tranny started slipping. Warmed up for a bit and got better, then tried to pull a skiier and it got a lot worse and started stinking burnt. Barely limped back to the dock. 1300 hours. Fluid a little dark. Couldn't tell level, but never bad an issue before. Am I looking a putting in a rebuilt tranny and where do I find one? I see Dis. Inboard Marine has a brand new one for $1700, plus cooler and freight. Any advice and help would be appreciated. -Luther, Minnesota |
Replies:
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: August-24-2011 at 2:02am
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Eric will be along in the morning,he'll tell you to pull yours,put it in a milk crate and sent it in.He ownes http://fantasticfinishmarine.net/index.html - Fantastic Finish Marine and is our sites expert on trans among other insights as well.You'll save money over a new one too. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: August-24-2011 at 3:14am
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Luther, where are you in Minnesota? there are a few of us around. Eric is the man, it is worth the extra few days to ship it to brunstucky, he takes good care of members on this site, and it will be done right. ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-24-2011 at 8:24am
Yup, go with Eric! 
Luther, Welcome to CCfan. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: August-24-2011 at 9:49am
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figure a thousand less, thats allotta gas ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: lison
Date Posted: August-24-2011 at 11:25am
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I'm in Forest Lake, MN. 'Just got off the phone with FFI Marine. Not sure if I talked to Eric, but sounds like a good option, so will try and pull it tonight and ship tomorrow. Hope I can get it to the boat landing and on the trailer! Will have to take some pics to make sure I get it back together. Now wondering what else I should be doing while I'm at it, like the seal where the shaft comes out of the hull?
PBrainard, I see Three Lakes, WI in your sig. I'm originally from Crandon. ------------- L Ison 1984 CC Ski Nautique 2001 351 PCM Ford Forest Lake, MN Crandon, WI |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: August-24-2011 at 5:25pm
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replace the damper plate while you are there! ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: lison
Date Posted: August-25-2011 at 1:40am
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Sure would like to find some detailed instructions for removal and re-install of a transmission. Where should I look? Not much for dealers around here.
------------- L Ison 1984 CC Ski Nautique 2001 351 PCM Ford Forest Lake, MN Crandon, WI |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: August-25-2011 at 9:31am
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unlag rear mounts, loosen front pinch bolts on front mounts, remove 4 coupling to prop shaft bolts, pull shaft back, lift rear of engine/transmission with bottle jack under manifold to stringer, or simply lift and block, or use a cherry picker or chain hoist, at this point the transmission should be high enough to clear the prop shaft. then unbolt the trans from the bellhousing and remove. ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: lison
Date Posted: August-25-2011 at 10:01am
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Fantastic Eric. Thanks much! ------------- L Ison 1984 CC Ski Nautique 2001 351 PCM Ford Forest Lake, MN Crandon, WI |
Posted By: Luchog
Date Posted: August-25-2011 at 10:51am
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you will need to disconect the oil cooler lines to the at so me point transmision too. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2095" rel="nofollow - 1980 Ski Nautique Commander 351W |
Posted By: lison
Date Posted: August-25-2011 at 5:10pm
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Followed Eric's instructions. Also disconnected cooler and trans lines, linkage, and took the water strainer off as it was in the way. Was worried the tranny might be stuck, but it slid off pretty easily once started. Glad I had a chain hoist though. Had to clean out the garage to use it, but it was worth it. Getting it in the milk crate turned out to be a struggle. It was TIGHT! Drained fluid. Put it in a plastic bag. Had to remove all fittings and oil filler cap or it wouldn't go in enough to get the plywood cover on it, and it's gotta be positioned just right. It fit though! 97 pounds. Fedex ground from MN to OH was $82. Thanks for all the help! ------------- L Ison 1984 CC Ski Nautique 2001 351 PCM Ford Forest Lake, MN Crandon, WI |
Posted By: anthonylizardi
Date Posted: August-25-2011 at 5:49pm
| Eric, with so many of us sending transmission to you should have a couple of "transmission" crates for rental or free for use, given a deposit. The deposit is in case the crate is not sent back and initial shipping. I know, it will cost some shipping but is less of a headache than trying to find one. |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: August-26-2011 at 9:02am
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funny you say that, I tell everyone i know if they bring me milk crates i give them 3 bucks a-piece for them, i really dont send rebuilt trannys out first anymore because the turn around is usually 2-3 days anyways, depending on attitude lol, and i lose cores ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: August-26-2011 at 9:09am
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the funny thing is I let the hourly guy build a crate once trying to go that route, it took him 2 fcn hours, that crate i figured by the time it was done cost me 200.00, (his wage and lost productive 2 hours)
now, we rust proof cars and i let him loose on them, tapes every opening, tapes a squirt around the car, all in all he spends about 5 hours start to finish...now, he needed some extra cash and asked me if he could do his friends car on Tuesday, yeah no problem, got it in there, put it on the lift and 10 minutes later he was spraying it. a fcn hour in a half he was done. wtf, when he is on my time he's a fcn turtle...just venting ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: August-26-2011 at 9:12am
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it really is funny to watch this guy on my time and on his time, 2 totally different people, i could go on and on with these antics and things you learn over the years, but one thing that really sticks out is the day he was cutting right in the center of a fresh piece of 3/4 ply, 60 bucks a sheet, he popped my cork, cried and went home, when i say center, it means he killed the sheet because he couldve cut the 2 pieces he needed instead of 1 ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: lison
Date Posted: August-26-2011 at 11:16am
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While Eric works on my transmission, I'm wondering if I should be pulling the prop shaft assembly apart. The boat is a '84, and to my knowledge, it has never been apart. Everything seems tight, and concentric, but don't want to compromise my new tranny, either. Any advice?
------------- L Ison 1984 CC Ski Nautique 2001 351 PCM Ford Forest Lake, MN Crandon, WI |
Posted By: anthonylizardi
Date Posted: August-26-2011 at 2:02pm
| If everything was working just leave as it is. Now if you feel like is a good time to change something you can take out the shaft, that would involve taking the rudder rudder. With the shaft out you can check your cultas bearing, i.e. is the insert inside the strut. If is wear you can replace it. It is supposed to be easy to but I stripped the allen wrench and it was headache. With the rudder and shaft out I recommend a new packing seal. The GFO fiber packing work great and they are inexpensive and almost dripless. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-26-2011 at 2:13pm
Just double check the cutlass bearing in the strut. Everything else you'll need to wait for the trans and install it. When you get to that point, http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21279&title=shaft-strut-alignment-video - this video may come in handy. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
lison wrote:Posted By: lison
Date Posted: August-27-2011 at 11:52am
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Got it. Thanks, and great video. Ordered out packing for the rudder and prop shaft from Skidim. Has anyone tried the OJ dripless system? Looks good, but spendy. ------------- L Ison 1984 CC Ski Nautique 2001 351 PCM Ford Forest Lake, MN Crandon, WI |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: August-27-2011 at 12:19pm
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I like em, there are some out there in the 150.00 range, set and forget, thats me though and i look at it this way, all the high end boats have them installed. ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: charger496
Date Posted: August-27-2011 at 5:56pm
| I'm sure it'll be in the instruction packet with the trans, but don't forget that the damper plate that he sends with the trans (you did order one, right?) is a universal fit, and needs the ears trimmed in order to avoid interference with the starter. The good news if you forget to do this is that removal and re-installation takes about half the time on the second go-round. I know this from experience... |
Posted By: lison
Date Posted: August-28-2011 at 12:17pm
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I asked Eric to include one, but wasn't aware there was such a thing as a universal damper plate. How much needs to be trimmed for a 351? Sure don't want to do the job twice, like I'm apt to do anyway!
Found previous posts and a few pics of the universal plate. Is it a better plate than the one made for a 351? Cost difference ($183 Skidim)? Eric? ------------- L Ison 1984 CC Ski Nautique 2001 351 PCM Ford Forest Lake, MN Crandon, WI |
Posted By: charger496
Date Posted: August-30-2011 at 1:16am
| The one from eric is cheaper and better than stock. Install it finger tight to see which holes to use, then it will be clear what to trim. Take enough off to avoid interference with the starter teeth when they rotate around with the flywheel. Trim one with a hack saw, then use the waste piece as a template for what to trim on the other two. Get pretty close on each one, I'm not sure how much vibration you'll get if you're sloppy. I got pretty close, and it's vibration-free. |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: August-30-2011 at 11:54am
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yes ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: lison
Date Posted: September-01-2011 at 5:44pm
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Am I going to have any issues getting splines to line up after the new damper and rebuilt tranny? ------------- L Ison 1984 CC Ski Nautique 2001 351 PCM Ford Forest Lake, MN Crandon, WI |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: September-02-2011 at 9:47am
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you shouldnt. you know about alignment? and leaving the damper loose until the transmission is piloted and bolted? ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: lison
Date Posted: September-02-2011 at 11:16am
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I know about alignment, but am confused about leaving the damper loose.
Pilot and bolt transmission and then pull it back apart to tighten the damper? It doesn't seem that there's much slop in the damper anyway. I've read something about sneaking in through the starter hole, but don't see how that's possible. Sorry, probably just need to do it once. Trying to visualize how this is going back together. ------------- L Ison 1984 CC Ski Nautique 2001 351 PCM Ford Forest Lake, MN Crandon, WI |
Posted By: lison
Date Posted: September-07-2011 at 2:55pm
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Got the Velvet Drive back yesterday and getting ready to put things back together. This is what I think I need to do. Am i missing anything?
Trim damper plate and install. Only had to trim quarter inch Install bell housing. Grease splines of tranny and damper. Drop in tranny and rotate trans output until splines align. Tighten everything down. Replace transmission mounts Install rebuilt starter Hook up clean fluid lines to clean cooler, leaving one loose Fill transmission with Type Dex Merc III ATF. Tighten loose fluid line. Hook up new water hoses to cooler, linkage, neutral switch. Loosen front and rear engine mount locking nuts Align prop shaft as close as possible and put in one bolt Remove and replace prop with rebuilt Replace packing in prop shaft Put boat in water and do final adjustment within .003 Start engine. Put transmission in forward and reverse at idle. Recheck fluid level and fill as necessary. Restart and test transmission. Recheck alignment Check and adjust packing. Get in boat/ski time before big freeze and winterizing. What have I missed? Thanks for all the help. Couldn't have done it without all you. -Luther ------------- L Ison 1984 CC Ski Nautique 2001 351 PCM Ford Forest Lake, MN Crandon, WI |
Posted By: anthonylizardi
Date Posted: September-07-2011 at 3:14pm
| Type F ATF? I thought you need Dex/Merc ATF. I recommend that you double check with Eric. |
Posted By: lison
Date Posted: September-08-2011 at 1:45am
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------------- L Ison 1984 CC Ski Nautique 2001 351 PCM Ford Forest Lake, MN Crandon, WI |
Posted By: lison
Date Posted: September-08-2011 at 1:51am
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My manual for a model 10-17 calls for "Dexron II, Type F"
Local auto parts stores have Type F, but no Dextron II. They have Dexron III and IV, but I don't think I'm supposed to use that. Tranny came back from rebuild with some fluid in it but I' don't know what it is. Guess I'll have to give FFI a call. ------------- L Ison 1984 CC Ski Nautique 2001 351 PCM Ford Forest Lake, MN Crandon, WI |
Posted By: anthonylizardi
Date Posted: September-08-2011 at 1:55am
| Valvoline Dex/Merc is what these guys suggested to the best of my knowledge. |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: September-08-2011 at 9:50am
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dexron/mercon or compatible ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: lison
Date Posted: September-09-2011 at 12:51pm
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Dexron Mercon III or Dex Merc V?
There's a ton of info out there on ATF. Should probably be a separate topic, but why can't we use synthetic on the old Velvet Drive Warner transmissions? ------------- L Ison 1984 CC Ski Nautique 2001 351 PCM Ford Forest Lake, MN Crandon, WI |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: September-09-2011 at 1:09pm
The coefficient of friction. You do NOT have an automotive trans. The marine is totally different. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: anthonylizardi
Date Posted: September-09-2011 at 1:40pm
| That's right. I remember a story somebody told once, maybe Eric. If you put synthethic in your hands there would never be any friction. I guess is the same for a clutch, withouth friction it won't work. Sounds like marine transmission are like a motorcycle with a wet clutch. The friction is needed in the transmission. |
Posted By: lison
Date Posted: September-10-2011 at 12:06pm
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Ah yes. Now I remember rebuilding the Hodaka and Bultaco clutches.
Got the tranny bolted in the boat last night. So far, so good. It almost went in too easy. Makes me nervous! Didn't have to rotate the crank, just the output of the trans. to line up the splines and it went right in. Shaft flanges appear to be off by about a quarter inch. Lining up good port to starboard, but engine sits a little higher than the prop shaft. Maybe because it's not in the water yet. Still gotta hook up hoses and lines, put the new prop on and repack the gortex. Then get it in the water for final adjustments. Time to get at it. ------------- L Ison 1984 CC Ski Nautique 2001 351 PCM Ford Forest Lake, MN Crandon, WI |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: September-10-2011 at 12:36pm
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[QUOTE=lison] Ah yes. Now I remember rebuilding the Hodaka and Bultaco clutches.
QUOTE] Showing your age  ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: September-10-2011 at 12:41pm
Don't forget the weight of the prop shaft forward at the stuffing box will allow it to be lower. When you get to the alignment, it's best to pull the hose/stuffing box forward so you can see if the shaft is centered in the log. You also want to make sure the shaft is "happy" (turns freely) in the strut. Don't forget your feeler gauges - I'd hate to see you send the trans back to Eric again!!! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: lison
Date Posted: September-10-2011 at 5:14pm
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Thanks much. Will do things right. Everything set to go. Got feeler gauges,tools, ATF (would only take a qt. initially).Reading up one more time on adjustment procedure.
------------- L Ison 1984 CC Ski Nautique 2001 351 PCM Ford Forest Lake, MN Crandon, WI |
Posted By: lison
Date Posted: September-10-2011 at 10:10pm
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Had to drop the transmission a little, but biggest issue was moving the front of the motor to the starboard side. One side didn't want to move. In hindsight, should have freed up those motor mounts when I had a better chance. Glad I'd sprayed them with penetrating fluid. Two and a half hours later, within tolerances and on the water, running sweet. No noticeable vibrations or issues. Thanks for the advice. I'll edit the install list for the next Correct Craft owner needing some help. -Luther ------------- L Ison 1984 CC Ski Nautique 2001 351 PCM Ford Forest Lake, MN Crandon, WI |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: September-10-2011 at 10:42pm
Did you get it down to less than .003" between the flanges? If so, fantastic!!! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: lison
Date Posted: September-11-2011 at 3:15am
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Got it down to .003 - .004 but I question whether there will be some settling of the engine and transmission. Motor mounts to stringers, mounts themselves, prying the front of the engine to the starboard, plenty of room for something to move. .003 for all that is a stretch. I wonder what it was before I pulled it apart, and if it lead to the tranny breaking down.
------------- L Ison 1984 CC Ski Nautique 2001 351 PCM Ford Forest Lake, MN Crandon, WI |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: September-11-2011 at 9:04am
I'd keep going at it. You're on the high side especially the .004" It's not hard to get it down to .000 - it just takes time and some playing around. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: September-11-2011 at 10:17am
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I agree ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: lison
Date Posted: September-12-2011 at 1:21am
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Ya, think I'll give it another go. I need to take the starboard front motor mount off and free it up better. Don't know why they didn't design it like the up and down, threaded adjustment. Cranking, pouinding, prying the entire engine laterally is not very precise. ------------- L Ison 1984 CC Ski Nautique 2001 351 PCM Ford Forest Lake, MN Crandon, WI |