Stringer wood
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Boat Maintenance
Forum Discription: Discuss maintenance of your Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=23871
Printed Date: November-19-2024 at 1:36pm
Topic: Stringer wood
Posted By: Roym
Subject: Stringer wood
Date Posted: October-17-2011 at 11:43pm
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It appears that Doug Fir is the most popular wood on this forum for stringer wood. I was researching attemping to find lumber yards in Tampa Florida for Doug Fir, when I found this information, which might rate Southern Yellow Pine better for the stringer wood.
Yellow pine here is sold at Lowes and the have up to 2x12x16. Interested in your opinions on this: **** From the website*** Southern Yellow Pine (SYP) Southern Yellow Pine is one of the premier structural woods in the world and it is our most popular timber product. It is very stiff and, when dry, quite hard. One of the colloquial names for SYP is "Hard Pine." It is available in large sizes, long lengths and is of consistently high quality. It is also very amenable to kiln drying so it need not be used green. When dried properly, it distorts very little and checks are small and scattered. It has a bold grain pattern and a color range from golden brown to reddish brown as it ages. It finishes and stains very well. Southern Yellow Pine is a commercial classification for four related species naturally occurring in the southeastern United States. The species are Longleaf, Shortleaf, Loblolly and Slash pines. The mix of species changes as you move from the Atlantic seaboard to East Texas. In our area Shortleaf and Loblolly are predominant with a fairly substantial quantity of Longleaf in areas with sandy soils. The majority of logs that we buy are Shortleaf Pine. We use Southern Yellow Pine in our own frames because of its strength and quality. Should these attributes appeal to you, Southern Yellow Pine would be an excellent choice for your frame. We used SYP for both our Layout Barn and Board Barn and plan to use it for a future shop addition. Douglas Fir Douglas Fir, like Southern Yellow Pine, is one of the most sought after structural woods in the world. It is available in virtually any grade and size. It has a very pleasing dark reddish brown color as it ages. It is very sensitive to ultra violet radiation and darkens very quickly when exposed to light. The grain pattern of high quality Douglas Fir is often even in both color and pattern. Planed Douglas Fir seems to glow when a clear oil finish is applied. Douglas Fir, although very strong, has an Achilles Heel. It splits very easily along the grain. It is therefore necessary to design joinery in such a way to avoid this characteristic. This is seldom a problem for experienced timber framers. We kiln dry new Douglas Fir before using it in a timber frame. Kiln drying stabilizes the wood and reduces movement in the timbers and checking. Although we use both new kiln dried and recycled Douglas Fir, recycled material has its own special characteristics and beauty. In addition to the environmental benefit of using recycle wood, the material is often very dry and stable. The nail and bolt holes present often leave character marks that are pleasing evidence of its previous use. As either new kiln dried or recycled material, Douglas Fir is one of the more expensive woods on the market. So, if a darker color and even grain pattern are what you want in a frame, and the budget can support the added cost, we certainly would encourage the use of recycled Douglas Fir for your frame. The homes in Argyle Texas and Nacogdoches were built with recycled Douglas Fir and each has its own particular character. |
Replies:
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-18-2011 at 9:35am
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Roy,
What you missed is the flex modulus. "very stiff" is not what I would call a technical term. Look at any spec on building and you will see that the Doug is in it's own class. I'd go LVL before even considering SYP. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: October-18-2011 at 11:09am
| I've got to wonder if there really is a problem using PT SYP for stringers. I know that it's been reported that the epoxy does not adhere to the PT wood, but the 2 boats we've pulled apart has not had the fiberglass adhered to the wood anyways. The stringers have just been held in place by the fiberglass wrap and weren't adhered to the fiberglass or the hull. And it didn't appear to have been treated with anything like resin. It looked like SYP is what CC used. |
Posted By: Roym
Date Posted: October-18-2011 at 12:26pm
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Yeah I don't think CC would of shipped in DF for boat building. There are tons of SYP and Cypress here, so I would think they would of used them.
I was thinking that instead of PT SYP, it might be better to use untreated SYP and the CPES treatment. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-18-2011 at 2:29pm
Why not? Mahogany doesn't grow in Florida ether!!   ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Roym wrote:Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: October-18-2011 at 2:31pm
CC clearly calls out the use of a "clear fir" stringer system in the http://correctcraftfan.com/reference/1991_brochure/index.asp?page=12 - 1991 brochure. ------------- |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: October-18-2011 at 3:35pm
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Funny they don't say Douglas Fir. Lumber yards started using the term "Hem Fir" around here back in the '90's.
Our Mustang has SYP main stringers and the outers and longitudals looked like white pine. |
Posted By: must_dash
Date Posted: October-18-2011 at 3:36pm
I am doing a stringer job next winter and may have supply issus wth Douglas Fir. So a few questions to the wise...
Of the various types of LVL which is the best? And how do the lag bolts for the engine mounts work when into the end grain@ ------------- 1986 Martinique - sold When we ask for advice, we are usually looking for an accomplice. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-18-2011 at 4:36pm
LVL stands for laminated veneer lumber. Microlam is one of the trade names. Unlike plywood where the grain runs alternate with each layer, all the venner in LVL runs the length of the member. There are other "engineered" wood products out there made with small shavings of wood just like OSB is made. Stay away from them. The lags will not be an issue as you are not going into end grain. As with solid lumber, I always recommend predrilling your pilot holes and filling them up a couple times with CPES. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: dwcar
Date Posted: October-18-2011 at 5:24pm
What is the difference between Him Fir and Douglas Fir? ------------- 83Ski |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: October-18-2011 at 8:23pm
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CC also said in 93, we aint using this *************** anymore ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: October-18-2011 at 8:30pm
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what are the cost differences between the yellow and the Douglass? plus the cost of the shipping. for the time some of these boats have been running around stringerless, corragated cardboard might be an option lol
not to mislead, but that may be worth a further look, ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: Roym
Date Posted: October-18-2011 at 8:52pm
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I believe the cost of regular non PT SYP was about $12.00 for a 2x10x16, and Lowes has plenty of it. It all looked pretty good(much better than expected), no large knots, and very few small ones. Looked clean and straight.
My son priced DF at some a lumber yard here, but I don't remember what he said. It wasn't inexpensive. He is flying back from Texas right now so I can't ask him. |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: October-18-2011 at 9:26pm
I think it's one of those generic labels like SPF, (spruce, pine, fir), it's more apt to be Hemlock than Douglas Fir. I took it as BS at the time, but that's what the lumber yards are calling it. You can get Douglas Fir around here, but it is pricey and you have to order it or go to a specialy store. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-18-2011 at 10:11pm
------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: October-18-2011 at 10:21pm
Yes but how does the end grain look? All this so called "wood" at these home stores leaves alot to be desired with their large fast growth rings.When you go thru the all the time and effort, how much will you actually be saving? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: Roym
Date Posted: October-18-2011 at 11:32pm
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I only looked quickly at what they had at the time. I wasn't really considering it at the time, but have since read several web articles on the subject.
Sounds like a number of small boat builders use SYP. I am talking about mostly private persons who build boats. As far as cost goes, a couple hundred for wood isn't going to matter with the costs of everything involved. However SYP might be a choice also. I really don't think that Douglas Fir is the only option. |
Posted By: juniorwoody
Date Posted: October-19-2011 at 1:06am
| My two cents, SYP rots fast. It is a bad choice period. In terms of using what's available I would haven no issue with either DF or PTSYP provided they were good and dry, a criteria which is hard to meet. The moisture content in most of these materials when they leave the lumber verges on saturation. It is possible to find kiln dried Douglas fir at a cabinet supplier. Typically a board large enough will run about $250. If I had good dry Doug fir from the lumber supply I'd consider it suitable. |
Posted By: Roym
Date Posted: October-19-2011 at 6:59pm
| Called local lumber yard today and found DF 2x10x14 boards were $70.00. Not sure of the of the lenght needed for a Ski Tique, but the choices were 14' and 20'. I'm thinking the 14' would be long enough, but haven't measured it, as the floor is still in place. |
Posted By: ny_nautique
Date Posted: October-19-2011 at 7:35pm
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I called mine today and it was $9.79 per bdft. At 14 feet it would be $137.06 each. However, they said it was 5/4 inch (1 1/4"). Is that OK or does it need to be 2x?
This is finished on 4 sides, kiln dried, and stored inside. |
Posted By: Roym
Date Posted: October-19-2011 at 9:25pm
| I think a 2x is only 1 1/2 inch wide, so it's not too much difference. |
Posted By: 65 'cuda
Date Posted: October-19-2011 at 9:44pm
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Be aware that a 5/4 x 8 board sold surfaced will be 1" thick finished, and 7 1/4" wide. ------------- Gary http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=941" rel="nofollow - 1965 Barracuda SS |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: October-20-2011 at 9:39am
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I used 8/4 ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: ski-guy
Date Posted: October-20-2011 at 5:30pm
How significant is the fast growth aspect of douglas fir? We have some pretty slow growth avaialble (Western Canda)but frankly it is hard as a rock and not much fun to work with. I was thinking of looking for a source on Vancouver Island which would likely be much faster growth than trees from the interior of BC and therefore I was thinking not as hard of a wood to work. (Course I am still hoping MY stringers aren't rotten....) ------------- 1980 SN - don't worry dear, I may have $10+K into this project boat but I can easily sell it for $5k 2000/2001 Glen-L 'Squirt' 2006 Malibu LSV |
Posted By: wingwrench
Date Posted: October-22-2011 at 12:26pm
| I used SYP in my American Skier, mainly because I had some left over from another project. It was clean, straight and had been in dry storage for over a year. I brushed on 2 coats of thinned epoxy before bedding and lay-up. SYP is a little heavier than DF. |
Posted By: dwcar
Date Posted: October-22-2011 at 2:22pm
Pete, I have looked on the internet and can not find this kind of info (building specs). Where are you finding it? ------------- 83Ski |
Posted By: juniorwoody
Date Posted: October-22-2011 at 3:42pm
| I have had instances in the home building industry where the architect specified doug fir on particular floor joists lets say, because it has more strength than other grades such as SPF for the same dimension. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-22-2011 at 5:38pm
Don, What key words are you using for the search? It's an architectural engineering spec. It should also be spec'd under the UBC.
------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: dwcar
Date Posted: October-23-2011 at 8:53pm
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Pete,
help me out and throw me a few links. ------------- 83Ski |
Posted By: juniorwoody
Date Posted: October-23-2011 at 10:06pm
| http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf1996/ramme96a.pdf |
Posted By: 67425ks
Date Posted: October-25-2011 at 6:43pm
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the other day i was clearing out some pasture and cut a nice straight trunk out of a hedge tree (osage orange)and wondered how it would work for marine applications. we use it here for fire wood and fence posts but milling it is fairly uncommon since it can be pretty tough to find a long straight section. being that it is very uncommon, it is obviosly not a practical choice but it is hard and very rot resistant so i thought i would ask just for grins.
thanks |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: October-25-2011 at 8:53pm
The OO would be a great wood to use due to it's rot resistance however, it's heavy and as you mentioned, it's does "go all over the place" when dried. That's probably why you only see it used for small "crafty" projects with shorts lengths. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: October-25-2011 at 9:10pm
Gonna be near Atl anytime soon?  ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |