Starter Explodes
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Boat Maintenance
Forum Discription: Discuss maintenance of your Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2388
Printed Date: January-16-2025 at 2:47am
Topic: Starter Explodes
Posted By: tleed
Subject: Starter Explodes
Date Posted: September-04-2005 at 1:22am
I am NOT making this up!:
I got the impeller issue straightened out. A couple of weeks ago I learned that the tranny pump can be installed 180 degrees out of whack. Today I learned that the impeller pump can be installed backwards, too. Didn't realize that. It's reversible, too, depending on the rotation of the engine. And I'm sure last time I put it in the water it was backwards. No wonder it didn't prime and pump.
So I put in new impellers and put the boat in the water today. No problem priming and pumping cooling water.
But the starter gear exploded. It made a funny sound when it started, but went ahead and started. Out in the middle of the lake the carb linkage was hanging a little and keeping the revs up, so I pulled it back. It slowed enough it died. That's when I learned the starter gear exploded, and it wasn't going to start. The cover on the bellhousing over the timing mark was blown off, and I can't find it, and two teeth of the gear were in the back seat. Got towed in.
Is this the same starter as a car starter, or does this thing runs backwards, too?
Thomas
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Replies:
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: September-04-2005 at 3:07am
there are no timing marks on the bell housing, and the impeller and the tran pump are both bi-directional. The Timing marks are on the front of the motor not rear (bell housing) if you don't know which end is which leave it on the trailer or the dock
Find someone that knows how to fix a Boat before you kill your self. You list to many Dumb ass mistakes, I'm glad you are not on my lake or the same body of water I frequent.
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Posted By: 64 Skier
Date Posted: September-04-2005 at 5:10am
79nautique....man what's up....you usually have good posts and I'm sure we'll hear some more good advice soon.
Lot of the MOPAR breed have the timing marks on the Flywheel not the front of the engine as you stated. You pull a plug off the bellhousing to access them.
I see a lot of strange posts here and get corrected myself about things I believe are black and white....but hey...that's what makes the world go round!
Good luck Boating!
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64 Skier
66" HO VTX and 67" HO Triumph
http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1071&sort=&pagenum=3&yrstart=1971&yrend=1975 - 71CC
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Posted By: tleed
Date Posted: September-04-2005 at 4:53pm
79nautique illustrates one of the difficulties of owning an old boat like this: not only do you have to face the challenge of finding basic information, but you sometimes have to discard information that's just plain false, hopefully before you rely on it to your detriment. In this case, the front of my motor (at the pointy end of the boat), where the vibration damper is, has no timing mark, either on the damper, or on any scale on the block. Instead, you remove a round access cover on the top of the bellhousing to view the stationary timing mark attached to the bellhousing. The scale is on the flywheel. Which, boys and girls, is at the flat end of the boat. The one with the propeller. Pay no attention to anyone who says otherwise.
I'm on this site to gain and pass on helpful information. It's a community activity. Give some; get some. Of course I open myself up to criticism, both helpful and destructive, when I do so, but I'm committed to the idea that we can all benefit from pooled experiences. Scorn makes people afraid to share what they're doing, and we all lose.
As for sorting out my boat, I'm working out a lot of sins the previous owner visited upon it (for instance, yesterday I just discovered he removed the thermostat completely), and there's a significant learning curve involved. I'm hoping the info I gain here will shorten that curve. And maybe what I pass on will shorten someone else's.
As for the point of my original post, I'm still wondering if this starter turns the same as a car. Nobody's weighed in on that yet. It's a Chrysler 318. Shoulda put that in the original post.
Thomas
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Posted By: 64 Skier
Date Posted: September-05-2005 at 7:17am
I'd weigh in on the starter question, but would just be guessing since I'm not familiar with the MOPAR's and whether or not they built reverse rotation engines. Just crank her and see which way she rotates.
Keep posting...not all responces are negative and ole '79 does offer good advice. He probably just ran out of beer! I agree with what you said and I learn a little every time I read a post on the Forum and it's been a great help to me and my boat.
A lot of problems that your having are just related to time spent with the boat. I find myself time after time second guessing what I've done cause I got in a hurry when someone wanted a ski boat....not a garage project....and launched before fixing everything!
Good Luck,
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64 Skier
66" HO VTX and 67" HO Triumph
http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1071&sort=&pagenum=3&yrstart=1971&yrend=1975 - 71CC
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Posted By: The Lake
Date Posted: September-05-2005 at 9:39am
tleed, I have the same engine in my SN, a 1968 318. Mine is reverse rotation. Here are a couple of web sites that sells Chrysler Marine:
Hurrikain.com
basicpower.com/
There is another, must be on my other computer. Send me an email if you want.
Chuck
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Walk on Water
www.coldwater.me
http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=775&sort=&pagenum=3&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970 - 69 Ski Nautique
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Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: September-05-2005 at 11:48am
However, if its a top-mount starter, and the engine is reversed, the starter would not be reversed, but would turn the normal way.
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole
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Posted By: tleed
Date Posted: September-05-2005 at 12:33pm
The starter is at the top of the bellhousing, about 2 o'clock.
Thanks, Chuck. Now that's helpful advice.
And thanks, too, 64 Skier. I'm an experienced backyard wrench-turner on cars, but this is the first boat I've had, and I'm slowly learning the differences.
Yes, my engine is reversed, so, 64 Skier, I should be able to use an auto starter. Now where can I get one of those light-weight gear reduction starter?
Took my tranny & bellhousing off yesterday. The snout on the starter broke off. Starter gear was in the bottom of the bellhousing in pieces. I swear it didn't sound anything like that was going on. No core there.
Thomas
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Posted By: Jim_In_Houston
Date Posted: September-05-2005 at 1:55pm
tleed, can you post a pic of your "top mount" starter? I don't have a clue as to what you are talking about. This must have been a mod made by the marine conversion company in an attempt to get the starter out of the bilge area (I guess).
If starter gear teeth ended up in your back seat you must be running with your motor cover off. Man, I wouldn't do that - those belts spinning around right behind my head and neck make me feel real uneasy - but that's just me.
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Happy owner of a '66 and a '68 Mustang
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Posted By: Bhedbloom
Date Posted: September-05-2005 at 3:08pm
Thomas,
As far as the starter goes, You can have them rebuilt for a fraction of the cost of a new one. The Marine starters are different than the automotive units, and it is always best to stick with the marine version so as not to have any exposed sparks that can ignite gas fumes. Same goes for the alternator. I had my starter rebuilt this year for $70, and they even beefed up the windings. A new one would have set me back over $200. Look in the Yellow Pages under Alternator to find a rebuild shop in your area. This assumes that the correct part was in the boat to start with. Hope this helps and Happy Boating!
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Barry, South Carolina
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Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: September-05-2005 at 3:47pm
Hi tleed
I'm surprised nobody has talked much about marine starters yet.
If it turns out that you can use an automotive starter and you do use one then you're just rolling the dice.
One day when you least expect it, you'll turn the key and the last thing you'll hear is a big BOOM.
Like Bhedbloom said stick with the marine version
Remember you're on this site to gain some information
Keno
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Posted By: tleed
Date Posted: September-05-2005 at 5:16pm
After checking around it seems my starter is NOT the same as a regular 318 auto starter. The snout is different. But it does turn the same direction as a regular car starter.
The gear on mine shattered, jammed in the snout, and broke the end of the snout off. So much for a good core to rebuild. There is a good rebuild shop near me, but unless they have another core with a good snout, I'm in for a new starter.
Yes, it was an original starter.
They're out there, but they're not cheap: about $180-190.
Yes, Jim, I had the cover off, but I was very careful. No moving about while underway. I left it off because it's terribly heavy, and not easy to move out in the water, and I had to monitor the tranny & impeller pump to see if they were cooling properly. The impeller was, tranny wasn't.
Thanks, Keno. No interest here in big BOOMS, and am taking all good advice to heart.
Thomas
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Posted By: 75 Tique
Date Posted: September-08-2005 at 3:08pm
Jim_in_Houston
I too have a "top mount" starter in my 75 Tique that has a chevy 305 with an OMC conversion. Starter is on upper starboard side of bell housing, facing forward instead of backward, as mentioned above. Hence, you use a regular rotation starter for a reverse rotation engine.
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_____________
“So, how was your weekend?”
“Well, let me see…sun burn, stiff neck, screwed up back, assorted aches and pains….yup, my weekend was great, thanks for asking.”
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Posted By: mackwrench
Date Posted: September-08-2005 at 6:17pm
Jim, The starter mounts on top of the flyhousing above the transmission, the starter is turned around backwards w/the starter gear toward the front. I wish the ford's had a top mounted starter, its a sweet setup. I have looked for a flywheel housing that uses that set up, found them for GM & Mopar but no Ford!
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NO LONGER A MEMBER
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Posted By: tleed
Date Posted: September-08-2005 at 6:43pm
I have wonderful friends. Called one and scored a late '80's roller cam 318 for an extremely attractive price. ("And you can have it for free if you just haul away the whole car.")
So my winter rebuild looks to be well underway.
Thomas
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Posted By: Jim_In_Houston
Date Posted: September-08-2005 at 10:23pm
Tleed, keep in mind that if your marine engine is a reverse rotation engine, and I am 99% sure it is, the cam from an auto will not work. You will need a special grind cam designed for reverse rotation engines.
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Happy owner of a '66 and a '68 Mustang
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Posted By: tleed
Date Posted: September-09-2005 at 4:05am
I know. I think there are some marine grind cams out there, and some must be reverse rotation. My motor is reverse rotation. So I need to figure out where to get a cam from that's marine for a roller setup. Custom grind necessary?
Thomas
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Posted By: mackwrench
Date Posted: September-09-2005 at 11:54am
The drive gear on the distbitor is different as well on the reverse engine.
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NO LONGER A MEMBER
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Posted By: Jim_In_Houston
Date Posted: September-09-2005 at 2:37pm
Tleed, my experience has been that cam grinders begin with what they call a "blank". The blank has to be suitable for the grind. The choices for suitable blanks seem to be limited for older small block reverse rotation engines. Not meaning to tell you how to build your engine, to each his own, my adivse though, based on recent experience, is to go with what parts are available and put any extra money into a good prop, nice wax and interior (to attract thongs), beer, and wine coolers. My opinion, for what it's worth, is that the effort put into installation of a roller cam system will result in insignificant if any, performance gains. Take the money you would use to install the roller cam system and have your engine balanced. I have seen surprisng performance gains realized by engine balancing. (Evidently vibration is a source of energy drain?) I see no reason this shouldn't apply to a marine engine. IMHO
PS (Added note): The purpose of a roller cam system is to allow higher valve spring pressure needed to keep from floating your valves at extreme high RPMs on very high lift cams.)
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Happy owner of a '66 and a '68 Mustang
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Posted By: mackwrench
Date Posted: September-09-2005 at 4:03pm
yea....what jim said
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NO LONGER A MEMBER
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