plywood recommend
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Boat Maintenance
Forum Discription: Discuss maintenance of your Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24188
Printed Date: November-19-2024 at 11:31am
Topic: plywood recommend
Posted By: bbishop1974
Subject: plywood recommend
Date Posted: November-22-2011 at 11:49am
| what is the best kind and thickness of plywood recommended in rebuild.i like the cabinet grade 3/4 that greg used due to the # of plys within.i was wondering if that was P.A.[pete approved]due to the glue used or does CPES remedy that issue?Greg if your reading,did you use ply for your extra ribs with extra piece of fir on top for support?hard to tell from pics.if anyone needs doug fir i found it at Bingham Lumber in brookline NH for all the N.E. people.the plan for now is doug fir,no foam,ply floor.thanks |
Replies:
Posted By: ny_nautique
Date Posted: November-23-2011 at 12:33pm
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I believe P.A. is exterior plywood because of the better quality glues that are used. I've seen 1/2" and 3/4" used in these jobs. Considering all of the supports (and foam?) the 1/2" is probably fine. ------------- - Jeff 1999 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: bbishop1974
Date Posted: November-23-2011 at 12:43pm
| thanks for the reply jeff.i know P.A. is exterior grade,but iam pretty sure greg used doug fir ply in his.i was at home depot the other night where they have 3/4 doug fir ply for $26 a sheet vs.$40 a sheet for exterior.the doug fir has 5 or 6 layers per ply and the quality of the wood looks much nicer then the exterior grade which has only 3 layers.pete,where are you? |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: November-23-2011 at 12:44pm
| We used 5/8 exterior AC fir plywood. I'd think 3/4 would be better for your boat. Fir plywood is far better in quality than regular plywood. I'm surprised HD had that in stock. |
Posted By: bbishop1974
Date Posted: November-23-2011 at 1:11pm
| seeing the quality side by side makes me want to buy the fir now.just worried about the glue not holding up.this is cabinet grade stuff. |
Posted By: 65 'cuda
Date Posted: November-23-2011 at 9:02pm
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Are you sure its fir? I've not seen a fir plywood marketed as a cabinet grade. I have seen lots of imported birch plywood at home depot, and other vendors, marketed as cabinet grade. In my experience these imported panels are poorly made with very little glue in the glue lines and are prone to delamination, I've pulled the venner plys apart simply trying to pick up the panel.
Be sure you are buying what you think you are. ------------- Gary http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=941" rel="nofollow - 1965 Barracuda SS |
Posted By: Tim D
Date Posted: November-23-2011 at 10:16pm
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Make sure it doesn't have a label stapled on the end that says made in china. ------------- Tim D |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: November-23-2011 at 10:16pm
Just stick with the exterior Fir and CPES. Don't worry about what it looks like. It gets covered up anyway!  ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: November-24-2011 at 8:18am
Me Greg? I used fir ply; 3/4" & 1/2". It wasn't cabinet grade exactly. It was a good grade(A-C) of indoor ply. And yes, that's what I used for my extra ribs. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
bbishop1974 wrote:Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: November-24-2011 at 10:31am
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Tim, I concur, there might be little kid fingers in the Chinese stuff ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: bbishop1974
Date Posted: November-24-2011 at 11:13am
thanks guys.label says made from fir harvested in northwest.i'll look to see where it was actually made.too bad this particular HD is in the city with a not so knowledgable staff. 
|
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: November-24-2011 at 11:27am
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Look for a lumber yard...an old one. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: juniorwoody
Date Posted: November-24-2011 at 12:14pm
| Just curious here. Why not get a sheet of marine ply? |
Posted By: bbishop1974
Date Posted: November-24-2011 at 12:24pm
| $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and i work 100 feet away from Home Depot. |
Posted By: bbishop1974
Date Posted: November-24-2011 at 12:25pm
| several people have mentioned that marine ply is a waste of$$$$ |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: November-24-2011 at 1:28pm
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I gotted baited into it once, if I remember correctly I had to order it and it was 96.00 a sheet,
I believe they are glued the same as normal, and the difference is the finish...normal plywood is just fine for your intended use, no treated. ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: bbishop1974
Date Posted: November-24-2011 at 1:37pm
$96 a sheet  .not happening
|
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: November-24-2011 at 2:07pm
Jack, You have some reading to do to find out all about plywood. Info can be found here as there are plenty of discussions about it. If you really want to get technical, an internet search will bring up all the specs. It's fine with me if you want to use it but, as mentioned it's just a waste of money! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: November-24-2011 at 2:10pm
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x4, lol ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: juniorwoody
Date Posted: November-25-2011 at 12:28am
| I'm having a bit of trouble determining what the intended use is in this instance and I won't even take the bait on the statement that marine ply is a waste of money. Might I also add that there are significant differences between the specs on veneer thickness and grain direction and also no voids in marine ply. Pete's standard reply about doing research on this site is short on fact and strong on supposition that there is any information here to educate one at all on this matter. If the application is for hull material and we're talkin only a sheet or too there is a false saving in cutting the corner. Just the facts. |
Posted By: bbishop1974
Date Posted: November-25-2011 at 1:34am
| easy now,pete doesnt want us new guys getting lazy with free answers.i assure all of you i have been researching and taking notes for a year.this site is by far the best resource i have found.greg's rebuild on his BFN used fir plywood which i thought was listed as cabinet grade.my question is regarding the glue.if what i found at $26 a sheet is infact cabinet grade fir can i use it? |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: November-25-2011 at 10:03am
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Sorry about the confusion Brian. Don't get hung up on cabinet grade unless you're building in a galley.
My feeling on ply is that it's a framework for the glass. The glass is where your real strength comes in. I was looking for my fir stringers when I found my fir ply. It was clearly a good product(had been there a while, stacked right, etc) and I remembered that Pete liked fir for adhesion. As it turns out, he was spot on. Once a piece of wood is soaked with CPES and properly buttoned up with glass and epoxy, I figure it'll last as long as I need it to. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: November-25-2011 at 10:28am
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you would think that attached to the plywood that it would be waterproof, its not, i belive at the time i too did research on marine ply and found out that it was the final finish that was the difference and for its intended purpose, it did not warrant the extra money...i believe it had the name attached and as everything with the label of marine on it....you get twice the money,
but, i will to do some more research Sheldon and get back to you ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: November-25-2011 at 10:40am
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Who's Sheldon, Walowitz? ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: bbishop1974
Date Posted: November-25-2011 at 12:10pm
| as always thanks for the replies.greg,i think you got me straightend out.i realize it doesnt have to be pretty.this stuff looks much nicer then the regular 3 ply exterior and its halfthe price.maybe i'll buy a peice this week and post a pic. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: November-25-2011 at 1:50pm
Jack, Just the facts: I have stated many times in many posts, the difference between marine and other grades!!! Please note that the application here on CCfan is for no foam flooring and some bulkheads These are NOT structural applications!! Your blatant statement about just going with marine led me to believe you did not know the application and you haven't read many of the stringer job threads. Since you know all the facts about marine grade, you too could have explained why you recommended it. Sorry for the confusion.
Greg's statement "ply is a framework for glass" is spot on. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: juniorwoody
Date Posted: November-25-2011 at 4:09pm
| Hey Pete, Just saying here that the the deck could be built with 3/8 in. Marine ply for a couple hundred bucks. This would provide a good base for the glass as it is a scaffold which bears some structural responsibilities. Please don't underestimate it's importance. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: November-25-2011 at 8:22pm
Jack, I never said the floor doesn't have any structural responsibilities! But, you must understand that a foamed hull only had a layer of glass for it's floor. I feel you are over engineering this ply issue.
BTW, you do understand that CC never even used marine grade ply for their ply hull skins don't you?? It was just a good exterior grade of fir if painted and an import mahogany if bright. Hey, how's that stem repair going? We haven't seen any updates lately. And, we always love the pictures! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: juniorwoody
Date Posted: November-25-2011 at 9:12pm
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The original foam backed up the glass cloth. in it's absence the ply will take over the support it offered. therefore it needs strength and longevity. I'll let this one rest for now I promise.
I have a hankering to get back to work on the stem but life gets complicated at times. Mama needed a new kitchen and then there's that little cottage in Florida that beacons this time of year. don' fear Pete, I will return to the utility soon and there will be pics. Need to dust off the topic. |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: November-26-2011 at 11:19am
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Greg, Sheldon, Leonard and the guy's.....nice catch ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: juniorwoody
Date Posted: November-27-2011 at 4:26pm
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http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=26147&p=262988#p262988 - http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=26147&p=262988#p262988
Any interested in problems which can occur from use of substitute ply for marine ply may find this topic interesting. |
Posted By: bbishop1974
Date Posted: November-28-2011 at 1:09am
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interesting.seems like they were having problems with ply thatonly had epoxy and was being bent.they all seem to say everything that had glass held up fine.the only comment on glue i saw was in reference to not being able to be bent.how come there's no good fishing and fellowshiping talk on this site
|
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: November-28-2011 at 11:09am
Jack, I don't feel you are comparing "apples to apples" here. Again, please understand we are talking about ply with glass on it for a floor in a no foam hull and some bulkheads and not hull sides or bottom. As mentioned, CC used Fir ply for it's painted hull sides and bottom. I have NO problems with the typical Fir checking problem since it was CPES'd and this is without glass. Fir ply no matter what grade it is, will check. The poster should have used some CPES to bind the outer layer of Fir veneer together. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: juniorwoody
Date Posted: November-28-2011 at 11:48am
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Pete, could you provide me with some information to back up the statement that CC used fir ply in hull construction. Mine appears to be mahogany even on the painted sections. I just find it hard to believe they would cut that corner particularly back in the 50's when mahogany was more readily available. Most problems occur where there is an intrusion on the material such as holes made for fasteners and exhaust etc.
I made no effort of comparison to anything, simply, I wanted to share the information as informative. It is up to the reader to decide as to it's relevance to their project. |
Posted By: juniorwoody
Date Posted: November-28-2011 at 11:59am
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Hey bishop,
It would appear that the fir with a layer of cloth will suit your needs. As a matter of exercise only I would suggest that you price the cost to purchase and send ply to your home from Bateau. It may well exceed the budget. Just good to know the difference to make an informed decision. The forum at Bateau is a good one. Though I haven't participated I shall as soon as I start the building of a Phantom 18. I ,purchased the plans and marine ply to build her before my son found the 1950 CC we are currently working on. as with this site, I have found the members for the most part are very willing to share and always mean the best with their advice. I do enjoy reading about their fishing adventures also. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: November-28-2011 at 12:49pm
Jack, I have nothing in writing. All I know is my Atom is Fir, Billy's Dart is Fir, a friend of mine has 3 CC's and his painted hull is Fir plus, when I was working at Watercraft Sales back in the late 60's early 70's, I repaired 2 painted CC's and they were Fir. I still feel your hull sides had a bright area from the factory and the reason for the Mahogany. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: November-28-2011 at 1:10pm
| If exterior fir plywood and the same size/grade in marine plywood were the same price, would marine plywood be the better choice? |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: November-28-2011 at 2:16pm
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Bruce,
I really don't see what would be gained since I really don't consider the floor as a major structural component, Yes it adds to the hull but not much. Yes, it would be nice if the marine would be the same price! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: bbishop1974
Date Posted: November-28-2011 at 2:55pm
| junoir woody,thanks for sharing info.i appreciate all input,knowledge is power.i did learn from your link,thank you.i was just poking fun at the god reference in one of the posts.when people feel the nedd to inject a little faith into everything it gets under my skin,i hope i dont offend.thanks again. |