pro-boss in a mustang?
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Engine Repair
Forum Discription: Engine problems and solutions
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24234
Printed Date: June-26-2024 at 10:08am
Topic: pro-boss in a mustang?
Posted By: 75 stang
Subject: pro-boss in a mustang?
Date Posted: November-28-2011 at 6:30pm
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Anybody done the conversion? I found a complete proboss351 with computer and I am very tempted to latch onto it and swap out my225hp pcm chevy to some ford power. Its complte belhouse to waterpump and manifolds how much of a pain would it be? can i use the same drive with the 351 bellhouse or did the 90s sn use a differentdrive unit? rotation be the same?
Sounds like a good upgrade to 310hp to get my but out of the water. 75 mustang btw. Sean ------------- Take your work seriously, not yourself. http://s133.photobucket.com/albums/q70/Bigblockbandit/Lake%20and%20boats/ - Boat Pics |
Replies:
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: November-28-2011 at 6:37pm
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Motor mounts will likely be different. Outlets on the risers will be in a different location and larger (3.5" vs. 3").
The biggest thing is the rotation difference... that Pro Boss is most likely a LH engine, which would spin a RH prop only when mated to a PCM 1.23:1 tranny. It sounds like that isnt included? If mating to the BW, you'd need a LH prop and that opens a whole different can of worms in terms of the boat's performance and handling. Get a serial number off the engine to confirm. Is the Pro Boss carb'd or EFI? If EFI, is it TBI or Multiport? If the latter, the fuel system is a little different and would require some additional plumbing. ------------- |
Posted By: Fl Inboards
Date Posted: November-28-2011 at 9:11pm
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Step out on the wild side!!! Do IT!!! :) ------------- Hobby Boats can be expensive when the hobbyist is limited on their own skill and expertise. 1993 Shamrock "fat" 20. 2008 Nautique 196 5.0 |
Posted By: 75 stang
Date Posted: November-28-2011 at 9:38pm
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It's a 95 multiport gt 40 with computer. Would not be the dumbest thing I ever did but it sounds easier if he had the trans. Could just reverse the linkage and run i in reverse... ------------- Take your work seriously, not yourself. http://s133.photobucket.com/albums/q70/Bigblockbandit/Lake%20and%20boats/ - Boat Pics |
Posted By: politicallycorrect
Date Posted: November-28-2011 at 11:23pm
And get a crate ready to send that trans to eric... ------------- Skin grows back...fiberglass doesn't!! |
75 stang wrote:Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: November-29-2011 at 12:20am
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the answer is no you can not reverse the linkage and run it in reverse. The transmission does not have strong enough internals on the reverse side to handle full loading. You can index the pump on the trans so that it works with a LH engine but it will always turn the prop the same direction the engine turns while in forward. The price of the pcm transmission may not be a deal a breaker but it does let in a few other costs like a prop change, driveshaft mod, etc.
It is a doable swap though. If you decide to pass on the engine however let me know where it is as I have a 95 that could use an engine for the right price. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: November-29-2011 at 10:21am
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with a thousand bucks you could turn that 225 into a 375 ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: 75 stang
Date Posted: November-29-2011 at 11:53am
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Your exactly right Eric, that would be logical and cheap to replace the 307 with a 350 and get the most bang for the buck. I however an a die hard ford guy and always wanted to have a ford motor in my mustang. It sounds like it would be easier to find a 351 donor boat of the same era and put the gt40 heads and intake setup on it if I really wanted to go that route. I probably ought to pass right now though, I need to finish the wifes boat this winter and get things off my list and the old mustang is not in dire need of the upgrade right now.
http://toledo.craigslist.org/boa/2719530494.html here is the listing on craigslist. everything there including the computer. I wonder agbout the scored piston with that low of hours, injector go bad? I found it while trying to run down some GT40 heads and intake for my wifes 90 mustang convertable. I can pick up heads anywhere though. Have at it Guys if you need it. Stryker is just a couple miles down the road from me just off the ohio toll road. Sean ------------- Take your work seriously, not yourself. http://s133.photobucket.com/albums/q70/Bigblockbandit/Lake%20and%20boats/ - Boat Pics |
Posted By: Fl Inboards
Date Posted: November-29-2011 at 12:55pm
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It is not that uncommon for the GT-40 marine motors to score a cylinder. I just went thru one with 1000 hours. 2 and 7 were scored and compression was down under 100 psi.
That is a deal on the Craigslist motor the tube upper intake make the deal sweet! wish it was closer to PC I would snag it! ------------- Hobby Boats can be expensive when the hobbyist is limited on their own skill and expertise. 1993 Shamrock "fat" 20. 2008 Nautique 196 5.0 |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: November-29-2011 at 2:04pm
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all your jingle jingle will bolt right onto a 350 or 5.7
its the extras that always kill you when you go from a 36c cup to a 32 a, new bra, shirts, ego ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: November-29-2011 at 2:06pm
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oops didnt see it came complete ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: 75 stang
Date Posted: November-29-2011 at 2:43pm
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Yea, thats the only reason I was considering it. ------------- Take your work seriously, not yourself. http://s133.photobucket.com/albums/q70/Bigblockbandit/Lake%20and%20boats/ - Boat Pics |
Posted By: 75 stang
Date Posted: December-01-2011 at 10:45am
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I found a complete 351 with trans out of a 79 SN and a gt40 351 motor last night for cheap, i may try and grab those this weekend and see what i can put together. to bad it would not have the marine computer that way but the holley and gt40 heads would be easier for me anyway. At the price they are asking I throw them in the motor rack for future projects. ------------- Take your work seriously, not yourself. http://s133.photobucket.com/albums/q70/Bigblockbandit/Lake%20and%20boats/ - Boat Pics |
Posted By: KRoundy
Date Posted: December-01-2011 at 7:14pm
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Geez, I wish I lived in Ohio... ------------- Previous: 1993 Electric Blue/Charcoal Ski Nautique Current: 2016 Ski Nautique 200 Open Bow |
Posted By: 75 stang
Date Posted: December-02-2011 at 12:51am
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And it keeps getting better, looks to be an interesting weekend of chasing parts. ------------- Take your work seriously, not yourself. http://s133.photobucket.com/albums/q70/Bigblockbandit/Lake%20and%20boats/ - Boat Pics |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: December-02-2011 at 1:08am
I think he wants to go up Eric not down  ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: jbear
Date Posted: December-02-2011 at 3:37am
used to...miss lots from there...not the weather! john ------------- "Loud pipes save lives" AdamT sez "I'm Canadian and a beaver lover myself"... |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: December-02-2011 at 9:42am
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just got a complete 5.7, doing a comp test today, low hours
its a volvo, you can pull the jingle, e-bay it and re-coup your doe manifolds, pumps, brackets ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: 75 stang
Date Posted: December-02-2011 at 11:04am
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What kind of $? I am working a deal right now for a complete 79 351 sn with trans and everythign for $200 that needs rebuilt as well as a 351 gt40 longblock (lightning) and 3 other 351 long and short blocks for $200 more. Sounds like enough stuff to build up a 351 carb motor with the good heads and a roller cam setup that will bolt right in. and have enough stuff left over to let my son build a motor for the mustang (car) probably still have $1500 in it when Im done but everything would should be there to convert it to ford.
Not opposed to the 5.7, it would probably still be easier by many hours and cheaper in the long run. Sometimes its costly to be brand loyal... I almost bought a 5.7 of ebay in sandusky a few weeks ago, guy was selling cheap after replacing the pair when one blew. ------------- Take your work seriously, not yourself. http://s133.photobucket.com/albums/q70/Bigblockbandit/Lake%20and%20boats/ - Boat Pics |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: December-02-2011 at 11:31am
Careful! No such thing as a RH roller cam for a Ford 351w- so if you want to stay with a RH engine and all its wonderment, then you'll either need to 1)pony up big bucks (~$800-1000) for a custom RH roller cam (not including conversion parts, such as tie bar lifters), or 2)stick with flat tappet. Of course, you could keep the RH prop by mating a LH engine to a 1.23 trans, but thats not cheap either ($1700 from SkiDIM). If putting a Chevy in where a Ford once was, you'll need to play with the mounts a bit as well. My vote would be to build a RH bowtie powerplant for it... I know of someone who is putting in a RH 383 stroker in place of the original 307, and reusing all the accesssories. Id be doing the same! ------------- |
Posted By: 75 stang
Date Posted: December-02-2011 at 12:28pm
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My 93 lightning GT40 setup was flat tappet but my understanding is shortly there after they went roller. IF it is a roller gt40 motor I would be tempted to take the reverse rotating assembly out ot the 79 and plant it in the newer block essentially making it a reverse rotation pro-boos minus the injection at this point.I have not done all the homework yet but my hunch is most of the internals will be interchangeable, sometimes I ran into internal or external balance issues but 79 may be new enough to be the same.
Interesting line of thought, if it doesnt work out I will have another 351 for the car... and a lot of left over parts. I am kind of a motor horder at heart. I probably have more hidden away than i can ever use but my old pontiacs are getting scarce and I grab them whenever I can. ------------- Take your work seriously, not yourself. http://s133.photobucket.com/albums/q70/Bigblockbandit/Lake%20and%20boats/ - Boat Pics |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: December-02-2011 at 12:37pm
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just put the camera in the holes, looks good,
man i get alot of engines...............................they are on the garage floor for a reason, i pulled the block plugs and anti freeze came out. ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: December-02-2011 at 12:41pm
yup but don´t forget you get a 10% discount using promotion codes so it ends up around $1500.... ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: December-02-2011 at 12:47pm
Its not that simple. The rotating assembly could be switched from LH to RH- its the rear main seal thats rotation specific on a later 351w. The cam is also rotation specific- and like I said, RH roller cams arent off-the-shelf items like the RH flat tappets. Other accessories are also rotation specific- like the starter, and distributor (gear). ------------- |
Posted By: Fl Inboards
Date Posted: December-02-2011 at 1:09pm
I just rebuilt a 2002 GT-40 out of a Ski Nautique. No roller their, Flat tappet. 02 was the last year a GT-40 was available in A Correct Craft. The Automotive version of the 351 went roller that last few years of production. ------------- Hobby Boats can be expensive when the hobbyist is limited on their own skill and expertise. 1993 Shamrock "fat" 20. 2008 Nautique 196 5.0 |
Posted By: 75 stang
Date Posted: December-02-2011 at 1:19pm
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The 79 is out of a nautique, the crank, cam gear and distributor are all reverse rotation. the crank should have the reverse direction wipers built in and the newer block might not have oil wipers. you saying that wont work in the newer block to reverse the rotation? Im not following yet. I realize you cant just switch rotation without changing the cam components and timming. It used to be the cranks had to be swapped as well due to the oil wiper groove direction.
The roller tappet thing is not really an issue either, A guy should really use the 79 marine block anyway, whole bottom end so you dont need to convert an automotive block over. just use the gt40 top end. reverse rotation roller cams could be a special order thing$$$. I love flat lifters, used them all my life ------------- Take your work seriously, not yourself. http://s133.photobucket.com/albums/q70/Bigblockbandit/Lake%20and%20boats/ - Boat Pics |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: December-02-2011 at 1:27pm
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I guess I do not understand what youre trying to do. Please try explaining again.
If youre trying to swap rotating assemblies between the 2 different style blocks (they changed ~1982), that will not work. 2-piece vs. 1-piece rear main seal style cranks and blocks must be kept together. ------------- |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: December-02-2011 at 1:37pm
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The point is that no matter what you are trying to do it certainly can be done. With the exception that a reverse rotation roller cam would be very expensive for a sbf at this point. Although you would only need the Tie bar lifters if the late model engine you had was not roller equipped to begin with. Which sadly I do not belive the lightning engines ever were (conjecture was that it was not worth tooling the roller blanks for the higher lift/duration that the lightning had for the low volume so they continued to used flat tappet setups in the late model roller capable blocks) but as Jody states some 351ws in the last years of production were.. i have found the best bet to be broncos or f250's... f 150's seem to be hit and miss even to the end of the production run.
I called the guy with the GT40 a couple days ago... he has a buddy that maybe interested if he can find the cash. If not I will be running through your neighborhood on a procurement mission in the near future. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: December-02-2011 at 1:38pm
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tang, you close to Port Clinton? i ran out of time yesterday and couldnt snag a GM Goodwrench (on the valve covers) 5.7 on a abandoned boat, the shts gotta go and im not going back up....a hundy to my buddy will get the motor, but you do need a way to lift it out,
i was using a backhoe and blew the motor yesterday, so thats out, call me if interested and i will connect you to my friend 330-322-8817 ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: December-02-2011 at 1:40pm
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having re read that I think I was confusing... the lightning block if late model certainly could be converted to factory style rollers even though it did not come with them. However, by the time you buy the factory style lifters, dogbones, and spider and then drill and tap the block a good set of tie bars while still more expensive would not necessarily be a bad ideal. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: 75 stang
Date Posted: December-02-2011 at 2:27pm
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I blew a piston in my 93 lightning a few years ago with a little much boost. If I remember correctly we were able to drop in a 302 roller lifter setup with no mods. I would have to go back and check my records records but that was my memory of the deal. the machine shop i use gave me the lifters and we ordered a roller compu cam for it. Let me know if your out this way, be happy to met up.
I am at the west end of the toll road, probably 1.5 hours to port clinton, Dad used to keep his boat at lakeshore marina there. Not sure what year chebby changed exhaust ports, vortech heads need a whole different exhaust dont they? Benj, not sure what im thinking till i get it all splattered on the floor but the plan would be either use the 79 sn motor and just swap the GT40 top end on, easy deal or use the 79 rotating assembly int he gt40 block if there was a compelling reason to do so. sounds like if the reverse rotation marine cam is only flat tappet, there would be no gain in going to roller. in that case putting the gt heads on the 79 would be the best way to do the swap. If the motor does come with everything it would be a decent swap. My head is starting to spin now... ------------- Take your work seriously, not yourself. http://s133.photobucket.com/albums/q70/Bigblockbandit/Lake%20and%20boats/ - Boat Pics |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: December-02-2011 at 2:33pm
I would plan to use the '79 SN motor if youre dead set on switching to Ford. Assuming youre sticking with the carb, theres nothing special about the "top end" of the GT40 motor except for the heads. If youre going to spend the money to go through them, a fresh set of GT40p heads would likely be cheaper, and offer a slight performance advantage over the regular GT40's. And no, you cant swap the rotating assembly from the '79 into the newer 1-piece style block (cranks cant interchange between the 2). Its not that there wouldnt be a gain going to a roller, its that RH roller blanks arent cheap to come by. Either way, Id plan on swapping in a warmer cam with the improved heads, even if its a flat tappet. ------------- |
Posted By: 75 stang
Date Posted: December-02-2011 at 2:43pm
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I have read on the mustang sites that the GTp has a different spark plug angle and requires a different header on cars. not sure if that means the port shape is different as well for exhaust manifolds or if it was a header interference problem. I know the 3 bar heads will work and for $150 they are well worth picking up even if the motor turns out to be useless. ------------- Take your work seriously, not yourself. http://s133.photobucket.com/albums/q70/Bigblockbandit/Lake%20and%20boats/ - Boat Pics |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: December-02-2011 at 2:51pm
Better do some more reading here on CCF! 
The plug angle on the p-heads actually improve plug clearance significantly on our upswept marine exhaust manifolds. Theyre a very popular upgrade here- some have been running them for a long time (Im going on year 6). $150 isnt a bad deal on used GT40's, but by the time you add a valve job (I paid ~$300 here for my last one) theyre every bit as expensive as a reman'd set of P heads. If youre ok with running them as-is, thats a different story. ------------- |
Posted By: 75 stang
Date Posted: December-02-2011 at 4:11pm
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I have my own valve machine in the shop, its only the guides I send out if they are worn. My chebby manifolds are logs, i have not seen the ford ones recently, I will have to do a little reading here as you suggest. ------------- Take your work seriously, not yourself. http://s133.photobucket.com/albums/q70/Bigblockbandit/Lake%20and%20boats/ - Boat Pics |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: December-02-2011 at 4:17pm
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Having your own valve machine makes used heads much more attractive!
Regardless of log vs. pyramid manifolds, most still have runners that sweep upwards. A few styles come straight out (like Edelbrock) but theyre the minority. None that I am aware of sweep down (like a set of automotive headers) so that clearance issue with the P's goes away. ------------- |
Posted By: 75 stang
Date Posted: December-02-2011 at 4:32pm
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mine are very straight out like the edl, omc manifolds. ------------- Take your work seriously, not yourself. http://s133.photobucket.com/albums/q70/Bigblockbandit/Lake%20and%20boats/ - Boat Pics |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: December-02-2011 at 4:37pm
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Good to know... still wont bother the P heads unless you can figure out how to mount them onto a Chevy block. ------------- |
Posted By: 75 stang
Date Posted: January-18-2012 at 2:26pm
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Are the pcm boat motors painted black? I got the 351s back to the shop and started looking them over and they are painted black with brass freeze plugs. my truck motor was not painted at all. make me wonder if these are boat motors with the late blocks and flat tappets in them. ------------- Take your work seriously, not yourself. http://s133.photobucket.com/albums/q70/Bigblockbandit/Lake%20and%20boats/ - Boat Pics |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: January-18-2012 at 2:34pm
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I believe PCM started painting their engines black sometime around 1994. Prior to that, they were silver (dating back to around '79 or '80). ------------- |
Posted By: 75 stang
Date Posted: January-18-2012 at 3:03pm
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They are 94 castings (F4) so that is probably where they came from, the one spare was silver so i bet they all came out of a boat shop of some sort. ------------- Take your work seriously, not yourself. http://s133.photobucket.com/albums/q70/Bigblockbandit/Lake%20and%20boats/ - Boat Pics |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: January-19-2012 at 10:02am
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i would venture to say no rollers either ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: 75 stang
Date Posted: January-19-2012 at 10:54am
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correct, both are flat tappet. ------------- Take your work seriously, not yourself. http://s133.photobucket.com/albums/q70/Bigblockbandit/Lake%20and%20boats/ - Boat Pics |