Remove and replace bad floor
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Boat Maintenance
Forum Discription: Discuss maintenance of your Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24289
Printed Date: November-19-2024 at 11:46am
Topic: Remove and replace bad floor
Posted By: hoggjaws
Subject: Remove and replace bad floor
Date Posted: December-05-2011 at 7:41pm
| my 85 SN has some/a lot of soft spots in the floor. I got my first est. and not sure if it is a good price or not. I would love to do the job myself but space is very limited, and way to cold outside. This place said they would prep and grind the area for the new floor. Then fab and fiberglass new floor for $1800. then for an additional $582 replace new carpet. a total of 20 man hours. i personal think the price is way too high but what do i know. any feed back would help. thanks |
Replies:
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: December-05-2011 at 7:48pm
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You are in for a surprise. You most likely need more than just a "floor", which will cost almost as much, materials only, as your total repair quote.
Do some searching on rebuilds, many 2001 serious boats have/are being done. ------------- |
Posted By: Jllogan
Date Posted: December-05-2011 at 7:53pm
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in my opinion on this year of boat you are better off to do it yourself because to hire any to do these repairs you will be better off saving that money parting your boat out and buying another one. Agreed they will rip up the floor and say oh your foam is soaked you stringers are rotted etc that will be another 5000. If you are not willing able to do this yourself, run it until it sinks.
also as a side note the cost of a complete floor and stringer replace seems to run around 1700. So you are in for some money either way. I am in the process of doing mine right now. So is ny nautique and bbishop, to name a few. There are countless threads on here in the boat maintenance section many well documented. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5792&sort=&pagenum=1" rel="nofollow - 1986 Ski Nautique 2001 |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: December-05-2011 at 7:53pm
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For the price and hours they quoted, I would be VERY frightened as to what type of job they would do. A few things to consider:
1. If you have soft spots in the floor, then you most likely have rot. I have yet to see a case where rot is isolated to just the floor. Normally, the rot is caused by water intrusion, and all the foam under the floor is soaked, which in turn, has compromised the stringers. A soft floor is usually just the tip of the iceberg. 2. As such, youre most likely looking at a full stringer job to repair the issue properly. To do so is a VERY time consuming task (~200 hrs if you do it solo). The costs in material alone are going to be in the $1000-2000 range. Clearly this is not what the shop is quoting you. To spend $1800 on a "new floor" is a waste of money. It will only fix the symptom, and not the cause. I would highly recommend you either A) fix it properly (full restring) or B) leave it alone. With the latter case, you'll be no worse off, and you wont have wasted your money on a bogus repair. Save your money until it can be done right. ------------- |
Posted By: Jllogan
Date Posted: December-05-2011 at 7:58pm
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Happy reading
In process %20http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24179&title=moving-in-to-the-garage%20 - My 86 http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=22083&PN=1&title=1984-ski-nautique-project%20 - ny nautiques 84 Complete http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9543 - Buffalo's '88 Barefoot Nautique http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5409 - Skibum's '87 Ski Nautique rebuild http://freewebs.com/billsboatworks - (and his website) http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12666 - aka's '83 SN http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12301&KW=&title=water-behind-a-stringer - Wakeslayer's '68 Stang http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5635&KW=&title=a-351w-stroker-from-scratch - Joe in NY's all composite 60mph Nautique rebuild http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12717&KW=&title=79bfn - The Grinch's '79 BFN http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13673&title=uks-78-sn - UK79's '78SN %20http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=16254&PN=1&title=73-skier-restoration%20 - keeganinos 73 skier ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5792&sort=&pagenum=1" rel="nofollow - 1986 Ski Nautique 2001 |
Posted By: Fl Inboards
Date Posted: December-05-2011 at 8:03pm
Amen ! However with the bottom dropped out of our economy their are a lot of good repair shops that have cut their rates to eat and make ends meet! ------------- Hobby Boats can be expensive when the hobbyist is limited on their own skill and expertise. 1993 Shamrock "fat" 20. 2008 Nautique 196 5.0 |
TRBenj wrote:Posted By: hoggjaws
Date Posted: December-05-2011 at 8:04pm
| thank you some much for the quick response. no way to tell if the stringers are rotted unless you pull the floor up? i have taken a socket and tighten the bolts to see if the still grab and they still do but sounds like this is not the case from all of your experience? |
Posted By: ny_nautique
Date Posted: December-05-2011 at 9:54pm
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An 85 with a soft floor... I bet most on this site would say there's a 98% chance that you have wet foam and wet stringers. ------------- - Jeff 1999 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: December-05-2011 at 9:57pm
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no, take a lag bolt and go down into a new 4x4, thats how it should feel.
------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: srbranum
Date Posted: December-05-2011 at 9:57pm
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I had the same thoughts you were having and glad I listened to everyone on this website. In a nutshell, if you think it has any rot, it probably needs EVERYTHING replaced or nothing at all. See my rebuild project from a year and a half ago. ------------- I have to keep her running 'cause I can't afford a new one |
Posted By: Keeganino
Date Posted: December-05-2011 at 10:00pm
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The advice you are getting is from experience. These guys know what they are talking about. I was going to just replace the carpet and reupholster the seats and be done with it till I saw what was really going on under that floor.
It is a labor of love. To pay a shop to do it right would be more than buying a newer boat. $2k in materials plus 200 hours of labor @ $10 an hour (ha ha) =$22K. IMO it would never be worth paying to have this done, but to do it yourself is a true labor of love. You have to decide how much you love your boat. I see 2 choices. Ride it till it is absolutely done, ditch it and start over with a newer boat, or go all out and do it yourself. If done right with today's best practices and materials it should outlast your boating days. It is a big decision to make and the odds are going to seem to be stacked against you, but it is a great project and the gratification of the finished product is amazing! When I got started it was snowing and I was working outside. Tyvek is much more comfy in the snow than in the summer. Read as much as you can from the links posted above on the restorations and decide what you want to do. Forget about the shop though. ------------- "working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4897" rel="nofollow - 1973 Skier |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: December-05-2011 at 11:53pm
Keegan, I agree with your points, but you better check that math! ------------- |
Posted By: Keeganino
Date Posted: December-05-2011 at 11:58pm
I was getting all excited thinking about chopping into a juicy one!  ------------- "working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4897" rel="nofollow - 1973 Skier |
Posted By: Jllogan
Date Posted: December-06-2011 at 2:07am
your multiplication was off and I think your hourly rate is a little low unless you are hiring the neighbor kid. I agree with everything else as well. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5792&sort=&pagenum=1" rel="nofollow - 1986 Ski Nautique 2001 |
Posted By: Nevergrew
Date Posted: December-06-2011 at 7:43am
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Hoggjaws - It's easy to throw money at a boat, we all do it to some extent - mostly because we love them and the enjoyment they bring to our families. But, there is a difference between shouting it a new pair of shiny valve covers and completely rebuilding the entire sub floor structure.
If your boat is still safely conducting its job pulling everybody around the lake I'd give that floor/bearer job a big miss - for now. If you feel it's unsafe and somebody could put their foot through the floor, well then that's a different scenario all together. As the others have said above, you need to weigh up the costs verses time verses over capitalising. If the boat has sentimental value or is a very rare in any way, then it's worth spending uber bucks on it. But if it's just a ski hack that gets pulled out every once in a while for tow duties I'd say save your coin for a newer model. Unlike here in Australia, you guys over there seem to be swimming in everything CC, so you've got plenty of upgrade choices. I too will be in a similiar situation as you one day with our '89, so I don't envy you situation. Remember though, these boats are designed as a recreational activity - working on them is not recreation and most of the time it's a ***************t activity !! 
|
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: December-06-2011 at 8:56am
It was mentioned that there's a 98% chance of rot. I'd put the figure at 99.999%  A floor only isn't going to do it. We have seen plenty of "hack" jobs by "pro" shops. They would simply be covering up the problem.------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: hoggjaws
Date Posted: December-06-2011 at 1:09pm
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First thing thank you guys again for all feedback. im glad i did not waste money on having someone else mess with my boat. Last night before i put the kids to bed my oldest son (5) said he loves Christmas, but can not wait till summer to wakeboard and surf off. That lead to me looking over all the threads that Jllogan posted(2 hours of sleep last night). This boat is my first boat and i have always wanted this boat. i love the look when it is sitting in the water and the performance and sound. Long story short i will save my money and use this boat another summer. This will give me enough time to make room in my garage and also gather the materials. I am not sure i am up for this job, but i will continue to use this site to educate myself to make the right decision . this may sound crazy but i truly love this boat! |
Posted By: Jllogan
Date Posted: December-06-2011 at 1:13pm
No crazy, anyone who does this job loves their boat. Spend the next year planning, reading and asking questions. I think you are doing the right thing by waiting, saving your money and educating yourself. I promise many of us when we embarked on this (self included) had no idea what we were doing but this site and those who post are invaluable resources. I think that the response to your inquiry is a sign of that as well. Everyone will be here to hold your hand and you will have a response within 24 hours of anything you post. YOU CAN DO IT!!!!!! ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5792&sort=&pagenum=1" rel="nofollow - 1986 Ski Nautique 2001 |
Posted By: Keeganino
Date Posted: December-06-2011 at 2:41pm
$10 an hour was a joke, hence the ha ha. The multiplication was just a mistake. Geeeeeeez You are doing the right thing by waiting and reading. The great thing about taking on the project is that you will never be intimidated by any maintenance tasks down the line. ------------- "working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4897" rel="nofollow - 1973 Skier |
Posted By: YooperSully
Date Posted: December-29-2011 at 2:10am
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When I purchased my boat a few years ago the selling point was a new stringer and floor job done in 2006. I had the receipt from the shop. Somewhere around 13,000 for the work to be done. I am currently ripping out everything that was done in 2006 due to failure. I think for the price that you were told you'd end up with painted cardboard under your carpet. ------------- 87' 2001 |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: December-29-2011 at 9:01am
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paper mache? ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: Jllogan
Date Posted: December-29-2011 at 11:19am
what failed? What was their technique? Where did they go wrong. Just curious. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5792&sort=&pagenum=1" rel="nofollow - 1986 Ski Nautique 2001 |
Posted By: YooperSully
Date Posted: December-29-2011 at 5:53pm
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In the remodel they had skipped the fiberglass floor and replaced it with plywood instead. Every screw hole had left an opportunity to let water soak the wood and eventually soak the foam. The floor started to separate from the hull. They disregarded the cross member under the hatch so that led to a soft deck in the rear. To support the hatch they had just screwed 2x2's to the mains as a ledger board. Not to mention every fastener used in the rebuild was a regular drywall screw. They were all rusted and only about 1/4 of their original diameter. They also neglected to do the build out of the main stringers. In the original design the main stringers are widened with the 1x and foam and I believe this also helps reduce the twisting associated with the torque of the engine. When I would hole shot you could see the mains torque with the engine. Not by a lot but you definitely could see them twist. I figured that this motion after a few years would lead to the mains coming loose at the hull. My engine cover had gaps into the hull around it due to their poor planning and build. The secondaries were 2x, which is better than original but the tops of them were not in line with each other so to make up the difference they used Fairing compound (1" thick in spots). Another thing that I think they did was rebuilt it on the trailer. During my demolition I had the boat on stands. Once I removed the plywood floor my boat made a sudden "CRACK". My keester puckered up like a eyelet of a sewing needle when I heard it. All it was was the boat going back to it's original shape. I noticed 3/4" gaps between my mains and the foam. So I concluded that it was built on the trailer and was tweaked when the filled it with foam. Then when they screwed the deck down it just held it where it was. When I removed the plywoood on stands it just let it go back to original I'm assuming. Hopefully this cures the boats tendency to turn to the left when you let your hand off the wheel. I believe that they had caused a hook in the hull. They also had removed the hump of foam in front of the driver seat leaving the floor flat. The corrugated hose for venting the bilge had been torn and every time water went to the front of the boat on the deck it would find its way down in to the cavity ahead of the battery compartment. Taking measurement from the top of the freeboard down to the deck the drivers side front was roughly 1 1/4" higher than the other side. All in all I was very unimpressed with the professional rebuild. When I started my project it was only suppose to be a new carpet install, but after I pulled the carpet I was able to see that the ply had started to de-laminate. One thing led to another and this is where I am today. ------------- 87' 2001 |
Posted By: Jllogan
Date Posted: December-29-2011 at 5:59pm
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wow, what a list! and a mess. Well, I know you have had a bad experience with the plywood but you could do a ply floor correctly if you covered with fiberglass as I am doing. This will simplify you stringer design a litte. And you could attach the wood with thickened epoxy. Or you could use Coosa as joe did and go composite. This will still keep the foam out and make the design a little simpler. In any case sounds like anything you do will be an improvement. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5792&sort=&pagenum=1" rel="nofollow - 1986 Ski Nautique 2001 |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: December-29-2011 at 6:30pm
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As scary as that "professional" rebuild sounds, Ive seen worse! I have a Skier whose floor was rebuilt using particle board. Glassed only on the top. Just another testament to doing your own work, I suppose.
A few comments/corrections though: - The additional build out of the mains around the engine compartment on the 2001 may add some strength, but their primary purpose is to allow access to the engine mount nuts on the underside of the cradle. Neither the cradle-less CC's before the 2001, nor the wood-stringered '89-92 boats had this additional build up, as it is not required for strength... a simple 2x with an appropriate glass schedule is more than adequate. Im guessing yours was rebuilt with sub-par materials (or built too thin). - Its unlikely that the improper support would have added "hook" to the hull... that would be a fore/aft change, where the trailer bunks are probably ok (not so much side to side). The proper hull shape may improve the way the boat handles, but my guess is that your boat's tendency to turn left under power has more to do with your rudder (possibly ground for preload). You'll find out for sure once you get back on the water though! Good idea in supporting the hull properly. - A foamless build (especially one with coosa) will not simplify the design of the structure. Instead it will make it quite a bit more complex. The additional laminations (stringers), support pieces (ribs/bulkheads) and floor panels will all need to be cut, shaped, pre-glassed and bedded properly... and because the stuff isnt cheap, it will require careful planning to minimize your waste. Certainly a worthwhile endeavor if you plan to keep the boat forever, though- assuming you have the time and budget to support it. ------------- |
Posted By: Jllogan
Date Posted: December-29-2011 at 7:22pm
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well I suppose it may not simplify the overall design but it makes the stringers flat so it simplifys cutting the grooves for the wood floor support in the original design etc. So it simplifys the stringer. The support pieces are an additional pain that is true. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5792&sort=&pagenum=1" rel="nofollow - 1986 Ski Nautique 2001 |