oil pump
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Engine Repair
Forum Discription: Engine problems and solutions
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24565
Printed Date: November-21-2024 at 10:35am
Topic: oil pump
Posted By: lakedog55
Subject: oil pump
Date Posted: January-06-2012 at 11:55am
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Hi,
Cracked heads I guess it does freeze in FL. Anyway pulling motor going to start at bottom and spend money and time till I get to the top. Boat has a cork gasket on oil pan seems to be drippy and messy. Going to pull and put somthing else in its place. My main question is about the oil pump? Should I replace and if so does direction of the motor matter? Which oil pump should I be looking for? ------------- Lakedog55 |
Replies:
Posted By: Jllogan
Date Posted: January-06-2012 at 12:20pm
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alot of guys go with a melling, check it out on summit, you can sort down by your engine and find the right one. Rotation shouldnt matter. There are two though, one is high volume one is regular. Alot of people go HV but I have heard it can rob a few HP and you dont really need it, so you probably we be fine with standard. They arent expensive. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5792&sort=&pagenum=1" rel="nofollow - 1986 Ski Nautique 2001 |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: January-06-2012 at 12:26pm
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Cool,
Just getting started. Sure I will have a ton of questions Which manual is most helpful and where can I find torque requirments. Thanks Mike ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: January-06-2012 at 12:59pm
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have any of you guys tryed the permadry from felpro they look pricey but very nice. ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: Jllogan
Date Posted: January-06-2012 at 1:07pm
This baby has all your wrenching questions http://www.correctcraftfan.com/Downloads/Ford_302-351_Service_Manual.pdf - Engine Manual Be sure to browse through the reference section on this site and see what applies to your boat. TON of info in there. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5792&sort=&pagenum=1" rel="nofollow - 1986 Ski Nautique 2001 |
lakedog55 wrote:Posted By: Jllogan
Date Posted: January-06-2012 at 1:21pm
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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/Downloads/PCM%20Engine%20Owners%20Manual.pdf - Heres a PCM one also good ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5792&sort=&pagenum=1" rel="nofollow - 1986 Ski Nautique 2001 |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: January-06-2012 at 2:36pm
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Mike,
Engine rotation doesn't come to play with distributors or oil pumps. With both no matter the engine rotation turn the same way. This is due to the gear on the cam and on the end of the distributor that are specific to engine rotation. I'm not a fan of HV pumps ether. Not needed and they do rob HP. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Tim D
Date Posted: January-06-2012 at 3:58pm
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I have a Melling oil pump on my Mustang. It pegs out the oil gauge past 80 psi. ------------- Tim D |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: January-06-2012 at 10:30pm
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Thanks guys,
I talked to a few people and all seemed to think that the 1/2 hp I would miss would be made up for in the long run of better flow. Mike ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: January-06-2012 at 11:19pm
What are you gaining? Is the engine in that bad condition that all the bearing clearances are so bad that you need the flow? Why isn't the pump used by the OEM? Sorry but I have a feeling you may be going for the "bling" factor. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: January-06-2012 at 11:29pm
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Heck if I know Why does dodge put ball joints on vehicles that fall out in 6 months. Bling would be putting a nice shiny eldebrock intake on. I was trying to insure a proper rebuild starting with the heart of the motor. As for bearing clearances and so forth I must admit I am really not sure and really not sure if I can handle all of the rebuild. I am more of a bolt on Mechanic.
I do value your guys opinion and know the 351 to be an excellent oiler. Mike ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: January-07-2012 at 12:06am
So back to your original question. Do replace the pump. It's one of those taboos because of the time and work to get to it vs. ~$50. It's along the same lines as a throw-out bearing. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: January-07-2012 at 12:47am
When you get a new pump get a new one of these too
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ARP-154-7901/ - link I have also read that F1 engines were running 10psi oil pressure and that was in the days BMW engines were turning 19K.Not sure now though, engines have to last more than 1 race. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: January-07-2012 at 1:03am
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Thanks,
I did not think about the drive shaft Mike ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: January-07-2012 at 11:38am
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high volumes put to much strain on an engine, they were invented for worn out engines, if you want higher oil pressure put in thicker oil, unless someone can come up with a better explanation of why to use a HV pump please list it....really it is one of those taboo things when someone else builds an engine for you....030 over, hv pump, 500 hp, what they really mean is i dont know what the fck im talking about...first off you bore to clean, .030 may make you 2 hp, and the hv will rob it, 500 hp means 275 lol ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: January-07-2012 at 11:40am
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if you guys have ever primed an engine with a drill, you'll know what im talking about, a fresh engine is perfectly fine using a normal stock pump ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: January-07-2012 at 11:46am
| How does a small pump put so much strain on an engine compared to a compresser or some other kind of external accessory? I've read a bit about the HV versus stock pumps and it's one of those topics that gets beat to death. The only reason to have a HV pump that might make sense to me is if you have external coolers and filters, but you got to wonder why they aren't OEM. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: January-07-2012 at 11:57am
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Bruce,
I feel that with adding external accessories, the added drive components are designed for the load. With a HV oil pump, you are relying on the OEM cam/distributor gears to handle a higher than designed load. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: January-07-2012 at 12:23pm
Yep, I use a pretty stout 1/2" drill and the stem from an old distributer and it gets a workout. Stock melling pump. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: January-07-2012 at 12:24pm
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bruce in reality, its a closed system so anything external would not matter, just the oil capacity will increase ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: January-07-2012 at 3:03pm
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As far as a HV oil pump goes - I dont give the extra hp loss a second thought, but the extra strain on the distributor gear and the timing chain keeps me up at night. Of course I have been towed home in the middle of the night because I wore through the teeth on my distributor gear... so I am little more sensitive to these things. Even just quicker wear on the gear and chain limit your ability to closely control your timing and maintain a well tuned engine.
The clearances on the engine determine pressure you will build up... if you are not going to turn the crank and or replace the main bearings and your oil pressure was on the low side to begin with there may be a case for a higher volume pump, all these things work together so they are hard to address one at a time. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: January-07-2012 at 3:11pm
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used one once for a cure on a 4.0 jeep 125k, clacking up top and the oil pressure dove to 0 at idle....lottsa internal leaks...really same theory as a transmission
high volume pump, lucas and 50 weight does wonders, brought it up to 15 at idle....the guy is still driving it around, original diagnoses was to pull the engine as any white man would....but, once again the economy ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: January-08-2012 at 12:05am
Thanks for all of your guys suggestions, I went with the melling stock and drive shaft. It became real clear what you guys were talking about, once I was able to spend some time and sort through the mis-information highway. Here is another question Do you guys use any silicon on the gaskets at the oil pump? ONE How much slack should there be in the timing chain?  ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: January-08-2012 at 12:53am
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I personally would not use silicone,if you thought you needed anything,you could used a thin smeer of http://www.permatex.com/products/automotive/automotive_gasketing/gasket_sealants/auto_Permatex_Form-A-Gasket_No_2_Sealant.htm - this.
Timing chain,well now your going into the might as well zone  . You already have the pan off,water pump and timing cover will be easy since the motors out.I don't remember what year engine you have, but I think some years had nylon gears.If you have some hours on the engine it might be the time. Something like http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-2138/?rtype=10 - these are a nice upgrade.------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: Tim D
Date Posted: January-08-2012 at 1:26am
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My cousin built the motor in my Mustang back in '98. He builds a lot of race engines. He told me he put the Melling in for high rpms. A he also knocked a hole out next to the distributor for oil flow. But my boat hardly sees anything over 3,000 rpms. ------------- Tim D |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: January-08-2012 at 1:42am
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The keeper washer does it go to the oil pump side or the dist? I pulled mine out it was on the pump side, but the manual kinda shows it going to the top.
Mike ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: January-08-2012 at 2:00am
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It goes to the top Mike. It's there so when you pull out the distributor it stays in the oil pump. If it was not there the drive shaft can pull out of the pump side and more than likely drop off the distributor end and fall back into the pan with a sicking sound.
------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: January-08-2012 at 2:03am
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It goes on top, as far as i know it doesn't do anything but keep it from falling through when the engine is upside down for assembly. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: January-08-2012 at 2:04am
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Nevermind .... Too slow ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: January-08-2012 at 11:52am
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i dont think your far away to pulling that front cover and changing your timing set, if there are hours on it, its stretched, it does make a difference with a nice tight set, you'll get that nice smooth idle back and it will run at 450 rpms without stalling, not that you want to run it at 450, but 450 is a good indicator of the engines condition ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: January-09-2012 at 11:14am
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Thanks,
The other oil pump had gaskets on backwards, The small hole covering up the big hole and vice versa on the other one. The oil pan bolts were about to fall out. Any way got it back together. I have not ran the motor so I am going to install and see how it does, Owner told me it was rebuilt and has about 300hrs on it everything looked fresh. I was changing the cork gasket on oil pan and decided to do pump while I was there. Also changed valve cover gaskets. ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: January-09-2012 at 11:17pm
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I love the one piece rubber felpro pan gasket, little pricey,but wworth it ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: January-09-2012 at 11:29pm
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Eric,
I thought everything was okay. Parked on incline and was bleeding right in the center of motor against the flywheel cover. Not sure if this is rear main or pan. Let my ultra conservative Dad talk me into putting it back together. I think he was ready to get me out of his shop. Mike ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: January-10-2012 at 10:13am
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did he say "it will be fine?" when i hear those words i always cringe ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: January-10-2012 at 10:21am
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Not exactly, It was more like if you are going to do all that you need to get some more parts, Then it was you have not ran the motor or used it to see what it needs. I agreed with him on the parts, and need to make some room at home so I do not have the motor hanging from a tree.
Shade Tree Anyway found some gt40p heads waiting to get them and freshened up. So rear main? Mike ------------- Lakedog55 |