Way to go GM !!
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URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24668
Printed Date: January-12-2025 at 10:14am
Topic: Way to go GM !!
Posted By: PAPA
Subject: Way to go GM !!
Date Posted: January-19-2012 at 10:03pm
Just listening to the news and GM is once again the worlds top selling automaker. I am a Ford guy but I think this is great. They knocked off Toyota from number 1 with help from the eathquake/tsunami in Japan but they really are building a better car along with the rest of Detroit. Also heard Ford sales up 11% and 20,000 workers to get a raise. Man, that is some good news for a change. An American company with the profits coming back here. Three cheers for GM and the American auto industry. 
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Replies:
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: January-20-2012 at 4:03am
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1 cheer for GM doing it with a bailout, funding the unions at the expense of its creditors. Three cheers for Ford doing it on their own!!!!! ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: January-20-2012 at 10:10am
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all that matters is that Americans are waking up. ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: Okie Boarder
Date Posted: January-20-2012 at 3:38pm
| I'm with OMH...I am proud of both but more of Ford. I do have to say that comparing American cars, Ford is winning out in a lot of areas of design and technology. I like where they're headed. GM and Chrysler/Dodge aren't far behind. |
Posted By: 86BFN
Date Posted: January-20-2012 at 4:10pm
Maybe someday they'll buy back the 26% of the company still owned by the American taxpayer! 
BTW: http://www.cars.com/go/advice/Story.jsp?section=top&subject=ami&story=amMade0611&referer=advice&aff=national - Top American-Made Cars.  ------------- 👣 Steve http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4057&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1986&yrend=1986" rel="nofollow - 86 Barefoot Nautique 89 Martinique Former Owner: 93 Hydrodyne 350 MAG |
Posted By: Randy_in_Ohio
Date Posted: January-20-2012 at 5:25pm
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I have to take my POS 2006 Chevy Cobalt back into the shop after work today. After spending over $800 on struts, control arms, wheel bearings, stabilizer ends, steering linkage, etc. etc.... I still have a clunking noise when I turn the wheel to the left! I bought this car to save money on gas as opposed to driving my 07 Tundra 70+ miles back and forth to work everyday and I thought it would be a good car for Ashley to learn to drive on when she turns 16...
It had been a while since I owned a GM product, figured I would give it another go. Never Again, I'm done with GM. We shouldn't have bailed them out and just let nature run it's course! BTW. My two current Toyota's (07 tundra and 05 Camry) have NEVER been in a shop, except for replacing the tires! I owned a '98 Tacoma before the Tundra that I drove for 6 years and put over 80k miles on it and it never needed anything but a set of brakes and tires. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1602&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995" rel="nofollow - 1993 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: Jllogan
Date Posted: January-20-2012 at 6:28pm
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YOTA!
I do like those new fords, you shoulda went ford randy. have you seen the new 2013 fusion? is that a jaguar?!?!? http://www.thecoolist.com/2013-ford-fusion-revealed/ - new fusion ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5792&sort=&pagenum=1" rel="nofollow - 1986 Ski Nautique 2001 |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: January-21-2012 at 9:08am
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Randy from Japan? and lets be fair here and discuss the bazillion dollar frame issues with the rotted Tacoma frames, which was a silent recall, was the frozen Tundra involved? ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: January-21-2012 at 9:10am
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you bought the equivalant of a Toyota Corolla, not a Camry.....the Cobalt is a throw away car, just like the Chevette, well I bought a Bayliner to ski with................................. ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: January-21-2012 at 9:11am
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step up and buy a cadillac ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: January-21-2012 at 9:23am
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come to think of it, Ive never seen a plow on the front of a Tundra, do they even have Tundra in Japan? even stole an American word ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: January-21-2012 at 9:24am
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"the Chevy Samurai" ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: MI-nick
Date Posted: January-21-2012 at 11:04am
limited number of vehicles and in many cases the vehicles were bought back by the dealer...a coworker of my bought a '98 taco from another worker for $5K...had the frame issue...toyota bought it from him for $12K...that's customer service...i always wonder why you hate toyota and honda so much...they make quality cars and trucks that a lot of people love and employ thousands of americans...many in your own back yard!! ------------- As far as I can tell, I'm not quite sure... |
eric lavine wrote:Posted By: PAPA
Date Posted: January-21-2012 at 11:19am
Sounds more like a POS repair shop rather than the car. |
Posted By: Kristof
Date Posted: January-21-2012 at 1:14pm
In Europe it's called the Ford Mondeo... ------------- - Gun control means: using BOTH hands! - Money doesn't make one happy, but when it rains cats and dogs, it's still better to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle... |
Posted By: martin 74
Date Posted: January-21-2012 at 5:07pm
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A few stubborn facts to consider on a polarizing topic for my intelligent CCF friends.
1. The Toyota Tacoma was built by UAW workers in the NUMMI GM / Toyota joint venture auto manufacturing plant in Fremont California where they built both GM and Toyota brands from 1984 - 2010. 2. The rusted frames where made by an American auto parts manufacturer called Dana in Toledo Ohio and sold to light truck manufacturers. 3. The same frames were sold to other light truck manufacturers including Dodge. Toyota on there own offered to buy back the over five years of rust prone frames. A good thing. Rich |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: January-21-2012 at 5:44pm
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Certainly how a car is measured differs from personal experience. If you never crash it you will not care how damaged it gets or the repair costs. If you total one your experience will be different. My first new car was an 83 escort, lost the fuel pump at 38,000 miles and it would vapor lock and leave me stranded, took a few weeks to figure out. I bought new 86, and 88 accords, both were trouble free, I put in tires and brakes, and they never let me down or leaked a drop of anything. I owned a Ford aerostar (nick-named the anti-christ) bought it with 79,000 miles and sold it at 99,000. It leaked everything except for gas. I replaced the steering rack, radiator, brakes, rebuilt the tranny, replaced a wheel bearing, and had other leaks repaired all in 20,000 miles. That is hard to forget. My best experiences were with Honda by far, although my current Dakota with over 200,000 has been a good vehicle. My Honda sales person used to drive to my home and trade vehicles for the day while my car was serviced!!!! ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: January-21-2012 at 6:03pm
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well now we ruffled some feathers, really funny how i can notice the economy is picking up, and GM is selling some cars, i really dont think its about whats better or not, you guys live in the past......you remember when, 19hundred and eighty five, you know, when a comapny would give you money to retire on.
if i recall, i have purchased about 10 brand new American in the last 30 years and cant recall any problems with them, when your beloved Nautique blows an engine you guys dont run out and buy a Mastercraft? ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: January-21-2012 at 6:03pm
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its more about loyalty ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: January-21-2012 at 6:07pm
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i sit here and wonder if you guys would go and buy a toyota Epic boat, if so why and if not why? ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: January-21-2012 at 6:23pm
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maybe my problem is I know they built pieces of *************** in the 80's, they were pumping out junk, and many even in my family said thats it and switched over to Jap *************** and said they would never buy an American car again and they dont and they still have the ghost attached to them on American cars. yes the argument that they are built right here has nothing to do with putting Americans to work because if we purchased American they would be working anyways and the profits would be going into our economy, i dont necessarily agree with the unions because the dont do what they were designed to do, and i realize they were part of the problem also. But, you cant keep paper shuffling because it will catch up to you. the world economy? we got our own to take care of, I think alot of things stem from the auto industry, like healthcare, education, which would bring us to the top again, grants, parks, infastructure, scholarships, tax base, kids sports, so at the end of the day its the country that needs the auto industry ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: January-21-2012 at 8:32pm
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Sorry Eric, but we learn from our experiences. Fool me once shame on you, twice...., I touched a hot stove once, I do not need to try it again every ten years. My practice wife let me down 17 years ago, I cant see going back that way either. American car companies knew what they were making in the 80's and choose short term profit over quality. they have to live with their decision. I talked my mom into buying a 2004 Saturn Vue with the Honda Accord 250hp v6. It goes like a rocket, very reliable and is plastic so it will never rust. Service was great too until Obama got involved. Now she has a car from a company that is out of business....Shame on me. ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: Randy_in_Ohio
Date Posted: January-21-2012 at 11:23pm
Randy from Japan - LMFAO! I think Nick and Rich Covered the facts on this issue well already. Toyota stepped up to the plate and took care of the customer. Very few frames were affected. Thats a lot more than GM did on the steering shaft issue on these Cobalts. A known issue that has caused a lot of wrecks and loss of control (look it up) Well, it cost me $268.58 for the dealer (Spitzer Chevrolet) to replace the intermediate steering shaft on a five year old car. BTW- here is a pic of the frame from my '98 Tacoma when I sold it in October 2007. No more rust than you would expect from a truck that was driven on NE Ohio roads for 10 winters. Heck, it looks better than the bottom of my 2006 Cobalt! 
------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1602&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995" rel="nofollow - 1993 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: Randy_in_Ohio
Date Posted: January-21-2012 at 11:41pm
Why would any car company design a car to be a "throw away cay"? This is the reason people who bought a Chevette back in the '80's won't buy a Chevy today! You see, It's bad business to build a POS car and then just tell the customer that it is a "throw-away car" and they need to buy a new POS ever five years! The reason most of us would buy a new CC over a MC is because we have experienced a quality product and know we can expect quality from CC! I see 15+ year old Corolla's and Civic's everyday going up and down I-77. They may not look pretty but they're still on the road! This car was built in 2006, it's 6 years old and has 115k miles on it. Why does it sound like its falling apart when I drive it down the road?
Really?... So I have to spend over 40K to get a decent car from GM? I would rather put that kind of money toward a new CC! Besides, my Grandmother used to always buy Cadillac's and they were always having problems! She bought a 2003 Avalon new and has not had one problem with it to this day (It only has about 20k miles on it, grandma don't drive much (thank God!!!...)) ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1602&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995" rel="nofollow - 1993 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: Randy_in_Ohio
Date Posted: January-21-2012 at 11:52pm
Well, get ready for this. http://youtu.be/pO6X2W3ldrA - Supercharged Tundra Plowing 32" of Snow" Damn, I want to add a supercharger to my Tundra! 504 HP 
550 lbs. of torque
0 to 60 in 4.7 sec.
------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1602&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995" rel="nofollow - 1993 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: Randy_in_Ohio
Date Posted: January-21-2012 at 11:59pm
My Brother-in-Law and I did the work. Perhaps it was the crappy Chinese replacement parts I bought. You would think that if you have an American car, you could find American parts for it. Not so. I bought American when I had the option (Timken wheel bearings) but most of the parts I bought weren't even available from anywhere but China! Sad huh? The car is now at a trusted repair shop that has been in business for a very long time. They, have told me that they have a LOT of issues with these cars... ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1602&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995" rel="nofollow - 1993 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: Randy_in_Ohio
Date Posted: January-22-2012 at 12:04am
Never been in one, but I would like to. They put a sweet Lexus engine in them! Since I've had such a good experience with my CC and see the great experiences others have with theirs I would probably be inclined to buy another CC in the future. On the other hand, the Epics don't look as good as the SN, IMO.. Besides, they no longer make them since the economy tanked and Toyota pulled out of the inboard business. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1602&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995" rel="nofollow - 1993 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: Randy_in_Ohio
Date Posted: January-22-2012 at 12:06am
Right on Dave. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1602&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995" rel="nofollow - 1993 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: Randy_in_Ohio
Date Posted: January-22-2012 at 12:13am
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Another Tundra plowing some serious snow! http://youtu.be/tjujBXrPkVk - Tundra vs. 4 feet of snow ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1602&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995" rel="nofollow - 1993 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: January-22-2012 at 11:10am
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so now that you let it all out, go test drive a f250, A fushion, a cadillac? time to switch back ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: January-22-2012 at 11:31am
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I think Obama's policies will help a lot. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: PAPA
Date Posted: January-22-2012 at 11:41am
You are certainly right my friend. I still get a good chuckle when we talk about my brother-in-law taking his Honda on vacation to Wisconsin on vacation in the early 80's. Car broke down and needed a carb; fairly common and could be purchased anywhere for American car. Had to rent a car in Green Bay to come back home and go back two weeks later to pick up his car. He now has two Ford's in his driveway. 
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Posted By: PAPA
Date Posted: January-22-2012 at 11:55am
My Brother-in-Law and I did the work. /QUOTE] Sorry Randy, from the post it sounded like you took your car in for the clunk and they sold you everything but the kitchen sink and still did not repair the issue. Hopefully you were just doing a maintenanace issue yourself. Glad to see though that you now have it fixed. Totally agree with you on the parts issue. ***************g everyone even the manufacturers using cheap made chinese parts. Glad you popped for the Timken bearing. 
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Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: January-22-2012 at 12:16pm
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i really think the Timkens are made i China now also, I swear to god that they got these bearings down to a science, they put a one year warranty on them and i just did some this week, they went 14 months and the two i replaced on the stratus were bad again,
i put some high end Napas on a 1500 truck, luckily the customer purchased them, both sensors are bad on the front after 8 months, free bearings, but not free labor. really the bearings are taking a *************** up here in Ohio because of the brines that are being used on the roads, unlike salt it becomes active at a certain temperature and is like acid on these bearings. ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: January-22-2012 at 12:18pm
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so how is America better off? surrendering? or Joining? ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: ononewheel
Date Posted: January-22-2012 at 12:27pm
Bet you will be putting engine cradle bushings in. Well, the repair shop will. It is so common, I bet the local dealer has 12 on hand. |
Posted By: ononewheel
Date Posted: January-22-2012 at 12:32pm
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Can't have it both ways.
Mad they were bailed out. Happy they are doing well. Does that mean the economy is on the uphill now or was it wasted money? |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: January-22-2012 at 12:45pm
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wanna go to the party but dont wanna bring beer ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: January-22-2012 at 12:50pm
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a loan and a bail out are 2 different animals....a bail out is what we did with AIG which me and you absorbed in our 401ks a loan is something that is paid out and paid back with interest from the ones that borrowed it and it fcn worked. GM is budding like a spring flower putting people to work. not to hard to understand. ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: January-22-2012 at 12:54pm
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isnt it a good feeling putting your neighbor back to work? you know the ones, the ones that worked for twenty years and all of a sudden got laid off and then haad to suck off the system, you know the lazy people, the poor ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: ononewheel
Date Posted: January-22-2012 at 1:27pm
Yeah, I understand it. Just saying it's all hypocrisy. I have a feeling there are some who wished GM would have failed and lost all the money, just so Newt could get a job and the middle lost theirs. |
Posted By: MI-nick
Date Posted: January-22-2012 at 1:34pm
just so you know...toyota laid off NO ONE in the US during the recession/recall BS/Tsunami/Floods...they paid the line workers to sweep the floors or organize the parts or try to find ways to improve the production process...so they could stay employed and wouldn't have to suck off the system...engineering staff (like me) and management took pay cuts/got no bonus to keep EVERYONE employed...they did NOT pass there problems on to the citizens or government...just so you know... ------------- As far as I can tell, I'm not quite sure... |
Posted By: critter
Date Posted: January-22-2012 at 1:51pm
And you think it not hypocrisy when you bail out one when so many are going under around them. I am sure that there were no middle class working for any of the companies that were allowed to go bust. GM should not have been bailed out unless they were willing to bail out every business in the US. Governments should not pick and choose. It should be all in or nothing. And taxpayers cannot afford to go all in. ------------- 1980 Ski Nautique 1966 Barracuda |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: January-22-2012 at 2:30pm
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so Critter, if Toyota flopped and their sales crashed, would you personally give them a loan? as GM grows, Toyota will lay off and the workforce will switch back to GM because of the experience in the auto industry, its tit for tat,
there surely is alot more involved in doing business in this country and why Toyota and Honda set up shop here, it wasnt for the American Employee, it was better for business....if their sales flopped they would chew you up and spit you out and get back on the boat and head east and wipe their hands of you. its about the bottom line and the marketing make you feel like your 40k car was built right here in the good ole USA, you cant see the aftershock of what is happening GM is our brother, and we take care of our brothers, a garden grows when you water it, and everyone eats. Ive been around just long enough to see the recoil of the Auto industry, it drove this countries wheel, there's alot of Ghost towns in this country and but the other side of the coin, we dont want to take care of our poor, well these are the poor that had allegiance to these companies, we need big business in this country and have to quit relying on others, do we need someone making making 35.00 bucks an hour to push a broom, no, not really, but we need the opportunity for that man to make a good living and prosper. The government doesnt tell us what to purchase and we as citizens still have control of this. plain and simple the government is big business and needs revenue, they write checks too, they generate revenue from taxes. im past my prime so I really dont give 2 ***************s, obviously there is a problem or we wouldnt be talking about it, its funny that the persona is out there they we want to drill for our own oil to lower prices and become a less reliant country on Foriegn oil? please tell me the difference? ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: critter
Date Posted: January-22-2012 at 2:39pm
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If Toyota "flopped" and could not pay their bills, they should be allowed to fail just as the ACE Hardware was allowed to fail here in town and GM should have been allowed to.
I have friends that are out of a job, just as we all do. I did not expect the govt to bail any of them out. It is freedom for all to succeed or fail, no matter how large or what donations to a campain you make. ------------- 1980 Ski Nautique 1966 Barracuda |
Posted By: ononewheel
Date Posted: January-22-2012 at 2:57pm
What I don't understand is, why now that you see it is working can you still say it was a bad idea? Just because everybody didn't get the exact same help? It was pointed out about it being a loan, not a hand out. Though even if it were a hand out that would be a good thing, especially if you look at the consequences of not helping. With your logic, you shouldn't ever help anybody because you cannot help everybody. Seriously though I think it has less to do with campaign donations made than the amount of workers involved. |
Posted By: critter
Date Posted: January-22-2012 at 3:07pm
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It was not the Govts money to spend. For any reason, Loan or Bailout.
Bingo... let those that feel help should be provided provide it. I give to the charties I wish to donate to. I do not pay taxes to be a charity. GM stock is still down even with all the media successful comments. Why, because the investing public does not yet feel comfortable with them. And that includes me. That is an example of public opinion. Lots of 401K money out there that could go to GM if the owners and investment firms wanted it to go there. Not happening yet. ------------- 1980 Ski Nautique 1966 Barracuda |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: January-23-2012 at 3:05am
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GM is like the lutefisk of bailouts, a really bad idea that ends up with results that some like. GM was not a loan, when you get a loan the bank does not get to replace your CEO, rework your entire distribution, determine your product line, tell your creditors to pound sand, and give a big chunk of your company to your union workers. I am glad it worked out for the workers but why them? Housing stated this and the residential construction industry took a bigger hit than anyone. That would be non-union construction workers, what did the 10's of thousands of us guys get to keep us working? Bubcus! but we did get national debt that will slow down the recovery and we will have to help pay it back when things recover and we get back to work. Thanks Barrack for picking favorites. ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: January-23-2012 at 10:32am
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Dave, I know figures are out and people are not buying new and re-investing money to re-model, is it helping you any? no pun, serious question
nothing wrong with a clean slate and re-orginization, it proved to be the right decision ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: January-23-2012 at 10:34am
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you dont hear much about the radiation in Japan, if your ass burns in that new Camry let us know lol ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: 86BFN
Date Posted: January-23-2012 at 10:41am
Eric, those are built in Georgetown KY. & Lafayette IN.------------- 👣 Steve http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4057&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1986&yrend=1986" rel="nofollow - 86 Barefoot Nautique 89 Martinique Former Owner: 93 Hydrodyne 350 MAG |
Posted By: PAPA
Date Posted: January-23-2012 at 10:53am
Kind of a funny list. I looked at number 1 Camry and reviewers rated it a 4.2 out of 5. Was surprised a Ford Fusion was not on the list so I looked for a fusion and its reviewer rating and lo and behold it was a 4.8 out of 5. Go figure. 
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Posted By: 86BFN
Date Posted: January-23-2012 at 11:43am
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The Ford Fusion is built by FORD in two locations. A Hermosillo, Mexico plant and in Detroit, Michigan, USA....
------------- 👣 Steve http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4057&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1986&yrend=1986" rel="nofollow - 86 Barefoot Nautique 89 Martinique Former Owner: 93 Hydrodyne 350 MAG |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: January-23-2012 at 12:32pm
The GM situation was one in which lack of government oversight had put the country into a financial collapse where there was no viable way for capital to be raised to privately restructure GM. (One can argue that the GM was so large as for that to be all but impossible anyway and that companies too large to function in a private market are a danger to that free market but to compete as an automaker currently is only possible through such scale) It is a global market and the japanese, germans, french, chinese, etc all have no problems with helping out or nationalizing a company when it is in thier strategic interest. If we dont all want to be working for overseas interests then we are going to need to play on the same level as they are, or my next 5 patents will go foreign owned companies just like my last 5 have. When restructures and bailouts in this country have come through private equity means (the Mitt Romney or Warren Buffet option)... and all the conditions referenced above are absolutely typical including replacing your CEO - so I dont really get where you are going with this... A - we should not do what other countries would do and simply give up on the idea of american owned car companies. (Ford wouldnt have made it when thier suppliers started closing en mass due to the GM and Chyrsler collapse) B - we should have loaned them money with no conditions to piss away to the previous stock holders and existing failed leaders who were the ones that brought them to bankrupcy and irrelevancy? (like we did with AIG) and not C which we did and which worked, but was done by the wrong party so must be hated and mocked in every way ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: critter
Date Posted: January-23-2012 at 1:54pm
Joe, you were on a roll until "C". This has nothing to do with Party... Bush was just as wrong. Everyone keeps telling me we are all equal here in the US. So bail them all out or none of them. No exceptions.... Why did we not bail out Solyndra ? Investors were running from them too. Personally, I think that we are equal only twice in our lives. The moment of birth and the moment of death. Hope that you had a safe trip with the Wildcat... too much snow and ice for my taste.... ------------- 1980 Ski Nautique 1966 Barracuda |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: January-23-2012 at 2:14pm
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the all or none thing would certainly be more fair but it would involve us not allowing companies to grow so large as to be able to destroy the economy with thier collapse, or so large as to be able to crush start up competition. Which might be where I would be if I had my drothers... but I don't and the world is what it is. Somewhere along the line we decided the benefits of having cheaper cars (insurance, loans, oil, airlines, aircraft, and a few other key industries) outweighted the cost of allowing people to be ruled by corporations that don't always act in the best interest of their owners (the stock holders).
Allowing corporations to act in a free market and calling it capitalism has gotten to be crazy in the last 40 years. These huge multi national corporations cannot be expected to know what is in thier own best interest much less act in thier own best interest and therefore cannot be a part of a functioning free market. If we need to allow absurd outsized corporations then we are going to need to find a way to allow them to function without destroying the people that own them while enriching only those that are paid to run the company for them. Sadly, that means a large regulation structure in government or economic slavery to the ultra rich. At this point I don't trust any company not being fundamentally run by the owner or some reasonable amount of significantly invested partners. Trying to take the high road on having a reasonable government while allowing corporations a free hand is a nice place to think you can live but you wont like the reality. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: MI-nick
Date Posted: January-23-2012 at 3:24pm
this is the crux of the biscuit here...people who agree with the bailouts generally ASSUME the economy would collapse without them...people who don't agree with the bailouts generally ASSUME that the economy would work itself out and be better off afterwords. it is my belief that with the bank bailouts and auto loans we are rewarding poor business choices...and encouraging the same in the future...if you're too big to fail, why not take a huge risks...if it pays off you keep the money, if it doesn't you stick to U.S. with the loss...F that... there was a time in 2005 when I ALMOST bought my first house...but, it didn't make any sense what the realtor was saying to me about housing prices always going up, equity, trade up in 2 years, etc, etc...it also didn't make any sense what the mortgage broker was telling my about ARM's and balloons and interest only...not to mention the asking price of the house didn't make any sense...so I passed. three years later I bought my first house on a lake for $100K LESS than the PO payed in 2005. if all these *************** morons would *************** think about what they are *************** doing...we wouldn't have these problems of the need for bailouts... ------------- As far as I can tell, I'm not quite sure... |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: January-23-2012 at 4:16pm
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You dont have to assume anything, you can study history and economics and it becomes easy to see what will happen. Or you can watch the smoke and mirrors. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: MI-nick
Date Posted: January-23-2012 at 9:56pm
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please enlighten me. ------------- As far as I can tell, I'm not quite sure... |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: January-24-2012 at 9:59am
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I really dont think Japan has the resources to continue building cars on their little island, you know the one we dropped the bombs on? so why not move it right into the playing field, rob our resources and jobs, get the same money...just like the same concept of the Nike shoes, why do you think scrap prices are so high? the zips are buying all of our scrap.
i will not bow to a red dot, not now, not ever. Japan's economy isnt crumbling, ours is ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: critter
Date Posted: January-24-2012 at 1:40pm
Why not,,, Obama did it for you... You have bowed whether you agree with it or not. ------------- 1980 Ski Nautique 1966 Barracuda |
Posted By: 86BFN
Date Posted: January-24-2012 at 3:22pm
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------------- 👣 Steve http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4057&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1986&yrend=1986" rel="nofollow - 86 Barefoot Nautique 89 Martinique Former Owner: 93 Hydrodyne 350 MAG |
Posted By: Mojo
Date Posted: January-24-2012 at 4:01pm
This is unfortunately correct.... The other unfortunate reality is that we are in a " Global Economy". You don't have to like it, but its here to stay.. No, Gm shouldn't have been bailed out, IMO, but you have to look at the big picture. From the 1-4th tier suppliers, local economy, jobs,,,,, it all comes down to bad news. If you let GM come apart, your Fusion and your Camry just went up 20%+ in cost overnight and destroys even more of our economy..... I've had really good American cars and really good Jap cars. I'm in the market again now for a car/truck. Looking at the reviews on both, it will confuse the hell out of ya. Both love and hate for both from a quality standpoint.. Hell, they're almost all made here anyways.. Flip a coin.. Moj' ------------- 05' SV211 TE 73' Martinique had:96' SNOB had:76' Nautique had 77 Tique |
Posted By: Waterdog
Date Posted: January-24-2012 at 6:13pm
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My younger brother is an engineer at Chrysler. He just spent 20 days in China quality checking stamping dies. The days for Chrysler engineers are numbered. He’s in the last group of American engineers. ------------- - waterdog - http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=3896&sort=&pagenum=2&yrstart=1978&yrend=1978" rel="nofollow - 78 Ski Tique |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: January-24-2012 at 11:02pm
Joe, A truly free market has amazing self regulating abilities, it is when we attempt to intervene that many problems arise. There should be no such thing as to big to fail. If GM had been allowed to fail a lot of stakeholders in other industries would take notice and adjust their practices. Th fact that GM was not allowed to fail will cause others to assume they will be bailed out in similar circumstances and lead to riskier behavior. If GM had gone under it would not have changed the demand for cars, and someone somewhere would have to build them. The employees would take a temporary hit but someone would have bought what remained at a fire sale price, and done something else with the low cost infrastructure that would then employ many. The one thing that is constant in life is change. We like the security of having something we are used to stay around, but that does not mean it makes economic sense for it to do so. We are supposed to get equal treatment from our government. How messed up is it that Ford did not need a bailout, but will pay taxes towards GM's bailout, just to have a competitor that has now been relieved of the same burdens that ford has to still deal with. GM will do well for about ten years with there debt burden reduced, but they have not addressed their legacy costs and I predict they will be right back where they were. Failure is good, It is a natural selection process that punishes bad business practices in a way regulation can't. ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: MI-nick
Date Posted: January-25-2012 at 12:24am
what the f are you talking about or advocating here?? you sound like my grandfather who actually fought in WWII...seriously wtf are you talking about?? ------------- As far as I can tell, I'm not quite sure... |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: January-25-2012 at 12:32am
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No offense dave but you have no idea what you are talking about. The cost to tax payers for the millions of people that would have been unemployed in time it took the market to adjust greatly outweighed the cost of the "bailout".. which frankly is minor. The amount of extra taxes ford will have to pay is miniscule compared to the costs they would have incurred propping up suppliers or finding new sources and there is no doubt they supported the effort.
An unregulated market always has and always will produce more negative externalities than positive growth. We as tax payers are still cleaning up countless superfund sites, I personally pass buy a beautiful lake everyday that is always glass calm and the second most polluted body of water in the US. Human nature is that some will gain at the expense of others... regulation is the only thing that puts honest actors and those willing to take advantage of others on an equal footing. It is all nice to think we live in a black and white easy solution world.. but we dont. Big boys dont have the luxury of pure positions. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: bhectus
Date Posted: January-25-2012 at 1:19am
Eric, you really should check your facts. The chinese are buying some but that's not the leading factor of why scrap prices are high. Commodity prices all across the board are at record highs due mainly from speculators trading, and the price of hot-rolled coil (the leading factor in steel production) has remained consistently high. These latter factors keep the scrap/recycled materials market looking more favorable. As for Japan continuing to build cars on their tiny island....they don't have to. They are building them over here now. With American labor, and American parts. And those paychecks that those american workers get every week? That money gets spent in their local markets. I have been a die-hard bowtie guy my whole life. I bought a Tundra 2 years ago after I heard so many great reviews on it. At 11,000 miles it got a 6" lift kit, 35" tires, and the only thing I've done maintenance-wise since I got it is change the oil every 5-6,000 miles and changed the rear diff fluid once with Royal Purple. It's got 80,000 miles on it now. Hell, I'm still on the original brake pads and I haul my boat 30 miles round trip every time we go to the lake. Hey, don't forget to come up for air once and a while...... K?  ------------- '02 Ski Nautique 196 w/ 5.7 Apex bowtie - Sold '87 Barefoot - sold '97 Super Sport Nautique - originally custom built for Walt Meloon '97 Ski Nautique '83 SN 2001 |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: January-25-2012 at 1:23am
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JOE, We have regulated the cost of sugar in this country since nearly the time of our founding. Our government picks and chooses through quotas who can produce how much cane and beat sugar and stops sugar from being imported. Our sugar costs run at 2-3 times the world market costs. We get stuck with corn syrup in our soda, cereal and candy bars. I doubt this was ever the intent of the regulation, but it is what we end up with. Have you ever tried a Mexican coke bottled made with real sugar. Mmmmmmmm. My point was not that we need to end all regulation. I agree that monopoly's are a problem, and basic environmental laws have their place. But when you regulate and more importantly when the government decided to intercede in a situation and pick winners or losers, they often throw off the natural balance, they create bubbles, they create situations that can be taken advantage of without risk, the inherent corruption of government influences the distribution, and resources are wasted. Look at how much stimulus money went to political allies of the Obama administration and how many of those companies are already out of business. The government gave 3/4 of a billion to Solyndra when warning flags were flapping in the wind because it fit there agenda. It is not just business that makes unethical decisions that take money out of the hands of US citizens. Failure is a part of the risk of business, If our government offers to cover the costs of risk, our businesses will take more risks, and you and I will pay for it. Undoubtedly there is a cost to a company like GM going under, and it is fairly easy to calculate, but the cost of the bailouts, and how thy will effect business behavior will go far beyond what we paid for them at the time. ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: January-25-2012 at 1:30am
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You miss the point that GM did fail, the owners who allowed fools to run thier company into the ground lost thier investment. The effect on business behavior is then no longer a factor. The us government took it over and when they turned it into something they maintained ownership and are looking to recoup as much as possible of thier investment. Unlike the bush bailouts where the original bad actors survived with thier investments intact.
The real choices are the ones that are driven by corporate money that allow these companies to become monopolies to begin with .. but that is cured with more regulation, not less. When you elect people that dont believe in government then act surprised that they do a bad job governing you dont get to blame government as a concept, you take the blame for electing the wrong people. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: January-25-2012 at 2:49am
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GMs owners were given the boot but their legacy lives on with the legacy costs of their union contracts. The company was relieved of much of its debt by the government strong arming its creditors but again I give it about ten years before we are right back in the same place. If the government cant unload its ownership GM will be like another USPS sucking money from the general fund every year. ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: January-25-2012 at 10:36am
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I will offer to send you nip busters free of charge a big red dot for the front of your house, fly that flag....its always the ones that own them that still believe it is good business or good for the country to go out and buy a rice wagon.
would it be a tough decision to figure out what flag goes up top? really im very curious, what do you guys have against American car companies? please....an intelligent answer ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: January-25-2012 at 10:38am
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b.....you died really hard, keep reading your consumers digest, i hear Charmin is the softest toilet paper and wont chafe your ass ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: January-25-2012 at 11:19am
Eric, was this picture taken at your house? 
 ------------- |
Posted By: bhectus
Date Posted: January-25-2012 at 12:50pm
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Eric, I don't have anything against American car companies. Re-read my post. I WAS a die-hard chevy guy. But I'd much rather keep the money in my pocket and not in the mechanics. THAT is why I switched. Maybe that is why you like American product so much? I'm not intentionally trying to bash you here but you're not giving us any concrete data on why American motor vehicles are superior? If they start designing superior products then it's a different story but right now I just don't believe it is true unfortunately. Based on auto sales it would seem the american consumers agree, even paying more for imports because they know it will cost them less in the long run and they have higher resale values. That is fact. ------------- '02 Ski Nautique 196 w/ 5.7 Apex bowtie - Sold '87 Barefoot - sold '97 Super Sport Nautique - originally custom built for Walt Meloon '97 Ski Nautique '83 SN 2001 |
Posted By: MI-nick
Date Posted: January-25-2012 at 3:26pm
besides the fact that GM is partially owned/controlled by the government... nothing really.i think their executives are WAY over paid and there at too many of them, but that is really none of my business...or maybe it is now?? what do you have against the japanese car companies?? ------------- As far as I can tell, I'm not quite sure... |
Posted By: quinner
Date Posted: January-25-2012 at 4:35pm
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So what kind of dip chit does that make you Nick, as an engineer in the industry, as well as the rest of us here? The Japs can out engineer/build/think the folks here in the states and build a far superior product? How did we ever manage to beat there asses back in WWII?? The Jap car Kool-aide is such total BS, there is no loyalty to country anymore with these fukn kids, it's all about me.
I'm with Eric, Pound your ***************got azz jap carz straight up your fukn azzez!!!! ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1143" rel="nofollow - Mi Bowt |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: January-25-2012 at 4:52pm
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(Says the guy who drives a Subaru!)
Hell yeah, its all about me! If its my money in question, you better believe its going to be spent on what I believe fits my needs the best. I value functionality first, followed closely by reliability. If a foreign car best meets that criteria, thats what Im going to buy. Im not going to buy an "American" car because someone told me "its patriotic". Forget the fact that a good number of American cars have low American part content and are built outside our borders... Instead, just build a better car and I'll buy it! Then theres no need to justify an inferior product under the guise of "patriotism". It seems like American car companies are headed in the right direction, but I'm not convinced theyre there yet. We'll have a better idea in a few more years when today's new cars have some miles on them... I could care less about "initial quality"... I want to see how they hold up over time. Of course, if someone wants to give me a car, Im certainly not going to look a gift horse in the mouth (right CQ? ). For the record, I'll graciously accept a pull behind a Mastercraft, too. ------------- |
Posted By: quinner
Date Posted: January-25-2012 at 4:52pm
F U jag of, have some fukn respect ya punk!!!! ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1143" rel="nofollow - Mi Bowt |
Posted By: Jllogan
Date Posted: January-25-2012 at 5:31pm
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american cars had it, lost it, and may be on their way back. I hope so, now they just need to start making them here again.
What the korean car companies has done is really amazing, they went from basically a joke to the hottest selling cars around in half the time the japanese did. I think you should stop hating on the japs and start hating on the korean cars because they are coming up quick. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5792&sort=&pagenum=1" rel="nofollow - 1986 Ski Nautique 2001 |
Posted By: Randy_in_Ohio
Date Posted: January-25-2012 at 5:50pm
Maybe these kids watched GM throw their loyalty to the American people out the window when they were closing up factories and sending jobs overseas and over the border all while lowering the quality and reliability of their product. I really don't see how supporting a company that has outsourced most of their products content overseas and moved most of their manufacturing over the border is patriotic. It just shows you how effective advertising campaigns can be. Motorola is an "American" company headquartered in Schaumburg,IL. Isn't it funny that you never hear anyone proclaiming to be patriotic by buying a Motorola smart phone??? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1602&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995" rel="nofollow - 1993 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: GlassSeeker
Date Posted: January-25-2012 at 5:56pm
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isn't the point of this thread that GM is back on top?
funny they are also the largest auto maker in China. ------------- This is the life |
Posted By: MI-nick
Date Posted: January-25-2012 at 6:58pm
nice attitude...i don't like what you have to say, let's fight
take the time to read and understand the american made index linked earlier...like it or not, a Tundra is more american (in terms of where it's built and where it's parts are built) than an F150 or silverado...this is fact...but, it seems you guys don't care of facts...seriously, what do you have against the foreign auto companies?? ------------- As far as I can tell, I'm not quite sure... |
Posted By: Randy_in_Ohio
Date Posted: January-25-2012 at 7:03pm
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Here are the official domestic content ratings provided by the manufacturers to the US government: Tundra – 90% domestic content Ram 1500 – 70% domestic content Silverado/Sierra – 61% domestic content Ford F-150 – 60% domestic content http://www.tundraheadquarters.com/blog/2011/06/29/tundra-most-american-truck-2011/ - Tundra - The Most American Truck! ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1602&yrstart=1991&yrend=1995" rel="nofollow - 1993 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: January-25-2012 at 7:13pm
Woah, quinner is fully torqued. 
Did I already do the Facks are Facks quote in this thread? ------------- |
Posted By: bhectus
Date Posted: January-25-2012 at 7:53pm
You can get mad all you want. As already stated, facts are facts. Ponder this: If you work your ass off every day and are trying to support your family (which should obviously come first) then wouldn't you try and make the best conscious decision and purchase a vehicle, or anything else for that matter, that best suits your family and monetary position? It's simple economics! Now.....if there are 2 EQUAL vehicles by 2 separate manufacturers, 1 being a Toyota, and another being a Chevy, then I would choose the Chevy all day long. But HISTORY and FACTS prove this is not the case. Why the F would I buy something that is inferior just to support a company because it is american owned if it doesn't make sense for me and my family? If you don't understand this then you are just ignorant. ------------- '02 Ski Nautique 196 w/ 5.7 Apex bowtie - Sold '87 Barefoot - sold '97 Super Sport Nautique - originally custom built for Walt Meloon '97 Ski Nautique '83 SN 2001 |
Posted By: quinner
Date Posted: January-25-2012 at 8:02pm
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OK, now I am losing my way, Jap is better, or wait, more american is better, no, it's building your products in a different country is bad, chit, but isn't that what the japs are doing and they are the best?
------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1143" rel="nofollow - Mi Bowt |
Posted By: bhectus
Date Posted: January-25-2012 at 8:27pm
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Did you miss the part where "American" made cars/trucks are being made in Mexico? That throws all your logic right out the window. My Tundra has more American made parts than the F-150. Again, this is fact. Look, I'm not saying I don't like or want to support american companies because I do. I go out of my way a lot of times to do so. But I'm not going to go out of my way to do so if it just doesn't make sense and if it costs me personally to do so.
Oh and to prevent further speculation, I am a republican, white male, proud of my American heritage and love my country. As bad as it is here, it's still better than anywhere else in the world. That's also fact. But you can come on here and bitch and complain all you want. Do you want to be part of the problem, or part of the solution? ------------- '02 Ski Nautique 196 w/ 5.7 Apex bowtie - Sold '87 Barefoot - sold '97 Super Sport Nautique - originally custom built for Walt Meloon '97 Ski Nautique '83 SN 2001 |
Posted By: MI-nick
Date Posted: January-25-2012 at 9:18pm
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do you guys boycot miller and budweiser too?? both made in US...both foreign owned...this is kind of like arguing with my wife...she hates facts too
http://bbac02.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/america.jpg - is this quinner?? ------------- As far as I can tell, I'm not quite sure... |
Posted By: PAPA
Date Posted: January-25-2012 at 9:29pm
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Just as they say Facts are Facts, there definately are some wrong facts being tossed out here. I just looked at the NHTSA parts content list dated 12/06/2011 and it says Ford F-150 is 75% American content and the Toyota Tundra is 75% American content. If I could afford it I'd be driving a Ford F-150 Raptor.Alas, I'll settle for my Ford Edge and keep sending my money to a American company right here in the good old USA.Proud to say no rice burners in my household.
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Posted By: bhectus
Date Posted: January-25-2012 at 9:35pm
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Even if those facts are correct, it's still a wash. At 100,000 miles, which vehicle is going to be worth more ya think? Which vehicle will have had less problems? Want to search those facts?
You guys sound like Obama last night. "We've created 2 million jobs over the last year!" What he didn't mention were that 5 million were lost. That's a net effect of NEGATIVE 3-million jobs LOST!!! How's those facts sound to ya??? ------------- '02 Ski Nautique 196 w/ 5.7 Apex bowtie - Sold '87 Barefoot - sold '97 Super Sport Nautique - originally custom built for Walt Meloon '97 Ski Nautique '83 SN 2001 |
Posted By: PAPA
Date Posted: January-25-2012 at 11:37pm
Sorry to have to correct you again, but Kelly blue book says full size Ford truck has highest resale value for second year in a row. |
Posted By: MI-nick
Date Posted: January-25-2012 at 11:56pm
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http://www.nhtsa.gov/staticfiles/rulemaking/pdf/AALA/2012_AALA_Percent.pdf - facts ------------- As far as I can tell, I'm not quite sure... |
Posted By: bhectus
Date Posted: January-26-2012 at 12:37am
disproven: http://www.tundraheadquarters.com/blog/2011/03/14/2011-truck-depreciation-data/ - KBB info questionable at best ------------- '02 Ski Nautique 196 w/ 5.7 Apex bowtie - Sold '87 Barefoot - sold '97 Super Sport Nautique - originally custom built for Walt Meloon '97 Ski Nautique '83 SN 2001 |
Posted By: AirTique98
Date Posted: January-26-2012 at 4:09am
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I've been reading this topic with interest and in fairness must state that I was a 41 year employee of Ford Motor and they continue to pay the bills yet today. I was a confirmed GM guy growing up and have owned numerous Corvettes and Chevelles over the years. There were many years when the imports were nothing but junk and then many years when their quality was indeed superior. I think once again things have come full circle and the domestic car companies are building better products than they ever have.
I recently traded my 2007 F-150 Lariat Crew in on a 2011 F-150 Lariat Super Crew with the new ecoboost engine. Having been a confirmed V-8 guy my whole life this was hard technology to accept. My 2007 with the 5.4 was a great truck and I had zero complaints with it, but this new truck is fabulous! I don't know how they continue to make them better and better but this truck is quieter, rides better, and the ecoboost is unbelievable!! All I can say is if you get a chance to drive one make sure to do so. I agree that your money is your money and you should spend it where you feel you get the best value....the lines of what constitutes an "American" vehicle have long been blurred. I obviously drive Fords and get a break on the pricing as an ex-employee, but I truly feel they have never made better products than they currently produce. ------------- Bill http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5549 - 98Air Nautique Former Owner: 1990 Ski Nautique 1981 Ski Nautique 1976 Ski Nautique 1971 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: January-26-2012 at 4:17am
I don't think it is actually the Japanese car companies. They just do not feel comfortable with the way we think. The buy American split seems to be falling primarily on political lines. The left on this site like to label the right as mindless zombies blindly follow a cause and incapable of independent thought. However as this post has shown those on the right seem to be advocating making an educated decision based on information, and experience, to to find the solution that best fits their personal situation. Those on the other side of the argument not only have decided what they will buy but also want to control what everyone else buys, (and thinks). I believe the thinking goes something like this. 1) I know what I think is "right" my mind is made up and I will not get confused by the facts. 2) I am a good person. 3) If someone does not agree with me they must be a bad person because if they are not it means I might be wrong. 4) I must control them to think like me because being wrong is not acceptable and neither are bad people. The first choice would be for the government to force us to do what they want, but that is not likely to happen, so they have to make our choices politically incorrect. Or maybe they just hate the Japanese. ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: January-26-2012 at 10:27am
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why will you only buy a Correct Craft? ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: January-26-2012 at 10:46am
Because they have consistently proven to be the highest quality, most functional, highest performing boats, and are a good value? If Bayliners and Correct Crafts were priced competitively, then I would question anyone who blindly bought the Bayliner, too! All things being equal, Id love to buy American. But the American car companies havent proven that all things are equal, at least not yet. ------------- |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: January-26-2012 at 11:01am
So I can remain a CCFan in good standing. That alone adds resale value to the boat. 
They are the Tundra of boats.
I did my research and the Correct Craft best suited my needs. ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: quinner
Date Posted: January-26-2012 at 12:36pm
But really Timmy, based on what?? As you can see in this thread alone you can find whatever "facts" you want to support whichever side you choose to be on. In my real world experience, which I will not bore you with more "facts" on, there simply is not that much of a difference on average, so why then not support a domestic product, to help bring your money back full circle and help re-strengthen and/or build our own economy. Totally agree with JBear Sr (Bill) above, "it is your money" so of course you should do whatever suits your personal needs. Clearly in today's world buying domestic can be quite a challenge however when it comes to a purchase, that for most family's, represents their top 2 or 3 expenditure, then absolutely I am going to favor a domestic product. Bret, what can I say about your ridiculous comments, you have a pompous attitude, using derogatory remarks towards persons you do not even know, clearly you have no understanding of what the CCFan community is really about. Oh yeah, and Nick, if making any effort to be either patriotic or supporting this great country I live in makes me "illiterate trailer trash" as your picture implies, then so be it, call me Jethro from now on, perhaps I should also sell my home and move to lot 123 in the trailer park. And BTW, just for the record, here is a pic of me, Just for You! 
------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1143" rel="nofollow - Mi Bowt |