Stuffing box gone amuck
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Boat Maintenance
Forum Discription: Discuss maintenance of your Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=25476
Printed Date: November-19-2024 at 5:37am
Topic: Stuffing box gone amuck
Posted By: Foot_Fungus
Subject: Stuffing box gone amuck
Date Posted: April-05-2012 at 10:00pm
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So today's task was to repack the prop stuffing box. However, what seemed to be a simple task was made infinitely more difficult by the lack of or improper maintenance. So I start off by loosening the hose clamp on the box side of the rubber hose so I wont accidentally torque it while tackling the 2 giant nuts. Silly me says gee lets take the other clamps off and spin it around just to check for condition. Well turns out on the under side there is a giant rip where someone had tried to remove the nuts without undoing the hose clamp, so when they twisted they twisted and ripped the hose at its midpoint. Someone got creative and "patched" it with rtv. No problem I say I'll cut it off and put on a new one. So I cut it off and go to undo the 2 lock screws on the shaft key to slide the shaft off enough to put on the new hose. MFers are rusted in like no tomorrow. After an hour of soaking them with pb blaster, repeated hits with heat and ice water, and the biggest vice grips I own I can't even get them to budge. And of course the whole time I'm thinking well thank god the safety wire was on there they might of come loose on their own!!! So I've admitted defeat and looks like I'm going to take it to the boat mechanic tomorrow and let them charge me a fortune to get them loose. Well unless anyone has any bright ideas. |
Replies:
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: April-06-2012 at 12:39am
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What year boat? And which shaft coupler do you have? Mike ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: 74Wind
Date Posted: April-06-2012 at 1:11am
| Yep, stuffing box can be a hassle...i've also got a 75 v-drive century, packing nuts directly underneath the transmission & completely invisible. Try it by feel only, with a mirror....... |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-06-2012 at 8:34am
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The coupling to the prop shaft is a heat shrink fit (.000" to -.001") Unless the coupling is fretted due to bad alignment, it will not "slide" off the shaft. The set screws are easy compaired to removing the coupling. However, "vise grips" would not be the tool of my choice. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: April-06-2012 at 8:40am
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I somehow got elected to pull 6 bearings on a 16 car ferry, 30ft shafts, they are not incased in bronze, I had the welders make me a puller with 1.125 all thread, they are 24 inches long, this is day three and i have the 2 worst ones two pull yet....I really thought i knew what a hard days work was, until now. my wife keeps asking why its so hard, you have always worked on boats, instead of using a 9/16ths wrench, im using 3" wrenches. and at times hooking a comealong to the wrench to break a bolt loose. ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: April-06-2012 at 8:42am
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oh fck Pete, i had to bring in a 50 ton cylinder to pop these couplings, this place is kickin my ass, the props were stamped 486 lbs ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: April-06-2012 at 8:48am
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what did i get myself into? ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-06-2012 at 8:53am
Does she expect you to start to show signs of your age?  ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
eric lavine wrote:Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: April-06-2012 at 9:09am
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i can still pound nails with it Pete ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: April-06-2012 at 11:33am
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Eric - there was a reason they hired you, not everyone can do it. ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: Foot_Fungus
Date Posted: April-06-2012 at 12:37pm
| yea trust me vice grips are NOT my tool of choice and rarely leave my tool box. Unless I've done my research wrong won't I be able to use the socket/threaded rod trick to get the shaft out once I remove the set screws??? I let them sit in pb blaster over night so I'm going to give it a final shot later today and see what happens. |
Posted By: grim007
Date Posted: April-06-2012 at 12:54pm
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question, would a pipe repair clamp(stainless steel wrapped around rubber ) fit in the box over the hose without the clamps on and if it did should i put one tool box for an emergency fix, grims ------------- shaken not stirred |
Posted By: Foot_Fungus
Date Posted: April-06-2012 at 7:55pm
| grimm i was just thinking about the same thing. Tackled the set bolts again today and snapped 1 clean off it was so rusted in there. So I'm left with either dropping $500-600 for a new prop or finding a way to repair the rubber hose without removing the shaft. |
Posted By: M3Fan
Date Posted: April-06-2012 at 8:30pm
Maybe drill out the broken set screw, then proceed with the PITA process of removing the coupler, then re-tap for bigger set screws? Other than that, sawzall and new double-taper prop shaft? ------------- 2000 SN GT40 w/99 Graphics/Gel 2016 SN 200 OB 5.3L DI https://forum.fifteenoff.com |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: April-06-2012 at 10:23pm
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You could hoist up the engine & pull the shaft from the inside. would be extra work but cheaper than a new shaft. ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: grim007
Date Posted: April-06-2012 at 10:42pm
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at work we use the repair until we need to remove everything last resort kind of thing ------------- shaken not stirred |
Posted By: bfedio
Date Posted: April-06-2012 at 10:44pm
| Damn I'm new to this forum, but joined because I need to tackle the packing in my 97 super sport. Just looking at where it is, thought it would be nice if it could slide out the bottom to access. guess i'm goin in. I'm the only owner and have never had an issue before. noticed the past few year it took on more water over night. Now the bilge cant keep up. figured I'd do the drive shaft and rudder. any tricks??????> |
Posted By: gtxragtop
Date Posted: April-07-2012 at 1:33am
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You will need to drill out the set screw. If your lucky, it will then come out with an EZout. If not, then you will need to buy another coupler. I just when through this on my 96 ski nautique. I soaked the shaft/coupler with PB Blaster for 3 days. Added heat, tapped with a hammer with no luck. I then mounted an automotive harmonic balancer puller on the coupling and heated the coupling up with a blow torch. It moved very slowly and I needed to keep the coupling hot. It finally came of. Replaced the packing and took 220 sandpaper and cleaned out the bit of corrosion in the coupling. Was not much to remove. It then slipped right on/off again like butter. Amazing what 10'thousands of an inch of corrosion will do. I though that I would put it together with anti-seize but then thought... Bad idea, I don't want movement. Used one of these tightly mounted to the coupling. %20" rel="nofollow - http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&sugexp=frgbld&cp=18&gs_id=39&xhr=t&q=harmonic+balancer+puller&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&biw=1400&bih=858&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=3562934389496767239&sa=X&ei=S6d_T_2ML4H30gHVi9zbBw&sqi=2&ved=0CG8Q8wIwBA ------------- 1996 Ski Nautique GT40 Worcester, MA. |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: April-07-2012 at 12:18pm
The coupler needs to be a press fit. If it slipped back on to the shaft without heating, the shaft may come loose under load. ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: Morfoot
Date Posted: April-07-2012 at 1:09pm
+1 on this one. Lot less work involved then pulling the motor out just to get the shaft out and a heck of a lot cheaper than buying a new shaft. I know there is a thread here somewhere where Fans used a ATF/Acetone mixture (?)  with great results instead of PB blaster etc. ------------- "Morfoot; He can ski. He can wakeboard.He can cook chicken.He can create his own self-named beverage, & can also apparently fly. A man of many talents."72 Mustang "Kermit",88 SN Miss Scarlett, 99 SN "Sherman" |
Posted By: Foot_Fungus
Date Posted: April-07-2012 at 1:47pm
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Ok So after doing some research I'm down to 3 options. I ruled out the rubber hose patch idea bc its just not worth the risk, and I'd constantly worry about it. 1. Drill out the set screws and then tackle popping the shaft out of the coupler. ($5, but will probably take a weekend after all is said and done) 2. Slice the coupler long ways and just buy a new coupler($85 and about 2hrs to slice through it) 3. Cut the Shaft and buy an ARE double taper($450 and 2hrs to cut through SS) SO now I just need to evaluate how much my time is worth and if Id rather waste money or waste my time. This also would drain my ACME 422 prop fund. Not even sure #2 is possible, just an idea I had that it had to be softer than SS. #1 may backfire as this boat was in salt water for about 2 years so I'm thinking the coupler may be a solid block of rust. I'd love to hear other people's thoughts on the matter. On a side note after noticing brand new shiny engine mounting bolts where everything else is dirty/rusty it appears this sucker had a new engine put in or atleast, which would also explain why it says EFI on the side of the boat but has a newer carb on it. |
Posted By: Swatkinz
Date Posted: April-07-2012 at 2:58pm
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Option 4....Call GZ and get him to take care of it. I think that'll be the most cost and time effective option and it'll be done right. ------------- Steve 2011 Sport/Air 200 Excalibur 343 2017 Boatmate Tandem Axle Trailer Former CC owner (77, 80, 95, 88, all SNs) Former Malibu owner (07, 09) |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: April-07-2012 at 3:24pm
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if you opt to cut the shaft, use a cut off wheel, dont mess around with a swazall....5 minutes, really, what happens if you spend the weekend d*cking with the set screws only to find out the shaft is whooped? the ARE is the way to go ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: April-07-2012 at 4:12pm
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First we learn, then we learn to do it right..... Any halve assed repairs below waterline are indeed STUPID... Either remove the engine or cut the shaft... This is not that hard a repair, why not do it correctly ???? ------------- boat dr /diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart /diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-07-2012 at 5:06pm
NG, Chris is correct. You have a problem just waiting to happen. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: April-08-2012 at 10:35am
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Pete, just to let you know, i was cutting out phenolic bearings, i brought my chain saw in, worked very well, its a whole new ballgame with these big bastards, looking from the back of the boat the port was worn down to the metalat the 5 o'clock positon and the starboard was worn at the 7 o'clock...alotta armchair qauterbacks....not one of them yet got up in the boat to ask about the alignments yet... ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: April-08-2012 at 10:37am
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personally i think it's the bearings causing the problem or they have welded the shafts in the past and they have the paperclip effect ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: April-08-2012 at 11:15am
 ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: April-08-2012 at 11:16am
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all relevent ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: Foot_Fungus
Date Posted: April-08-2012 at 11:44am
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Steve, still waitin on you to send me his contact info. Boat Dr. in my post above I had already ruled out the 'shade tree' repair, all I'm currently debating is slicing apart the coupler or the shaft. |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: April-08-2012 at 11:57am
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if you do slice, you can get a split type walters coulping that will clamp on the shaft, that's if the shaft is straight and the end isnt fretted, 800-462-8848 TMI carries the split type 4" flange 1" shaft ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: Foot_Fungus
Date Posted: April-08-2012 at 9:48pm
| no ***************, that would be the cats meow. I was gonna cut the coupler, then go buy a regular coupler and bake that sucker and do a 'hot potato' install, but if that split coupler will work just as well that seems worth a few extra bucks... Heck its still gotta be cheaper then a new ARE shaft. Anything special they'll need to know or just a 4" flange with a 1" ID keyed? |
Posted By: crobi2
Date Posted: April-08-2012 at 10:42pm
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I also think you should just toss the money at it and use an A.R.E. system shaft. I have pictures of the shaft and also a picture of my old walter's style 3 1/2 in coupler on this link: http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24811&KW=&title=replacing-cutless-bearing" rel="nofollow - http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24811&KW=&title=replacing-cutless-bearing I also read somewhere that if you are going to split your old coupler lengthwise, use a cutoff wheel and cut it right along the keyway slot. Of course, I think Eric is also right about just cutting the shaft off with the cutoff wheel and being done with it. It will be worth the money to do it yourself and then be able to take the shaft out at will. Check your cutless bearing and go ahead and do it too if it's ready. ------------- C-Rob 2000 SAN |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: April-09-2012 at 8:44am
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just call and tell them what you have, ask for tony ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: Foot_Fungus
Date Posted: April-09-2012 at 9:01pm
After 2 hours, 3 chisels, and a 4.5" cutoff wheel the coupler has seen its last hoorah. Ended up slicing down the key on one side and then notched the 180 degree opposite side. Used the chisels to pry it open like a clam till the non-key side closed back up, cut another notch and spread it a little more. Took 3 notches and a slow pace, but it came off without damaging the shaft. Though the key is toast.   Dropped by SkiDIM and spoke with Vince today and he agreed to give the coupler hell since I really had nothing to loose. They have a coupler instock probably still on his desk that I'll swing by tomorrow and grab. Now I just need to do some searching for a how to on putting it back on. From what I gather I heat the sucker up for 30 minutes then hot potato it onto the shaft. I'm just curious if I should clean up the surface rust on the coupler end of the shaft or leave it be. The boat has 900hrs on it so I'm thinking I might as well do the strut bearing while I have it off. Just means I won't get to get back on the water this weekend :( |
Posted By: crobi2
Date Posted: April-09-2012 at 9:22pm
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Congratulations! Awesome job getting the coupler off without damaging your shaft. I would lightly remove the surface rust from the shaft. Make sure Vince gives you a new key that fits the coupler. Also check it on your driveshaft to make sure everything is going to go together smoothly. Don't forget to block the prop end of the shaft so you have something solid to push against when you slide the coupler on. Watch Pete's video on shaft alignment if you haven't gotten to see it yet. ------------- C-Rob 2000 SAN |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-09-2012 at 9:38pm
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After you clean up the shaft, make sure it's not fretted to much by measuring it. Erik mentioned it besides myself. You should have about a .000" to about .0005" interference fit. It would also be a good idea to check to make sure the shaft is straight both down it's length but also just behind the strut on the prop taper. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: April-09-2012 at 10:36pm
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Check the key for fitup before you have a 400 degree coupler in your hand. That was a problem for someone else recently. Great job cutting it off, you must have a steady hand. The parting wheels make me nervous! ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: Foot_Fungus
Date Posted: April-11-2012 at 1:41am
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Picked up all the parts from skidim this afternoon and got everything tore apart. Decided to go ahead and do the strut bearing while I had it apart. Found a new way to remove the bearing after cussing at the hacksaw for 20 minutes. Turns out a 13/16" impact socket will fit in the strut perfectly. Lubed it up and tapped the bearing right out. Then used a punch to knock the socket back out. Literally took me 5 minutes. rubber was in the beginning stages of dry rot, but wear pattern was normal(had a little vertical play but no side to side). Not sure if its the original but it was a single piece 4" brass outer/rubber inner bearing. Turns out instead of repacking the stuffing box the PO just kept tightening down the cap. The lock nuts was bottomed out and took some finessing to get off. Pulled it apart and found the below material. Only 2 rings and the 2nd looked like it had been combined from leftover pieces. The material crumbled in my hands.  Put a dial indicator on the shaft and she's straight and true. Only real issue I had was trying to get the stuffing box loose on the rudder. Pulled the rudder off just fine and decided since the thing wasn't leaking I would leave it alone for now. Sucker is corroded on there and I'm betting its the same issue as with my shaft box. And to the CC factory people, seriously why on earth did you put the pitman arm clamp bolt on the rear of the clamp instead of facing the front where it would of been easy to get to. |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: April-14-2012 at 11:19am
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I find myself going round and round with these Alabama ship mechanics, they gotta 18" jack or stub shaft sitting on two pillow blocks up in this ferry that runs to the 30 ft main prop shaft, so we have almost 50 ft of shaft, and now they are flying in a laser guy, was pulled in the office already and asked who i worked for and replied "for my family" oops.. then who signs your paycheck? lol Im just fcn curious on how you can run a laser line on a 50 foot run on a 55 year old sagging boat up on cribbing...and to date no one has asked me about the pilotless, fitted bolt couplings up in the boat? This yard was never really into ship repair, more of a pull tug company untill they purchased the travel lift, so far though I enjoy working there, more stories to come ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-14-2012 at 12:32pm
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Eric, You are correct - they had better drop that thing in the water before the laser guy goes to work!! I think you had better talk with him. He sounds like a pro with the shaft alignment using the laser. If so, he'll understand immediately. No pilots on the couplings!!! I wonder if the were aligned, bolted down and then drilled/reamed for dowel pins for the alignment?? What's on them for the alignment? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: April-14-2012 at 1:14pm
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yep, no pilots, all fitted and reamed bolts, including the rudder bolts which i had to weld a 1" nut to each of them and pull with a porta power, they wanna pull that 18 footer which will be a 4 day project, this stub shaft has welded flanges and is tweeked about .012 over the 18 ft run, they want to cut up the boat to get her out because of its length and flange size, it was put in when the boat was built...smart ass me of course suggested, why not cut the old one out without cutting the fck outta the boat, manufacture a a tapered keyed shaft at both ends with seperate couplings, slide the shaft down the prop tubes and install the couplings????? thats why I get paid the big bucks lol, they are starting to catch on lol ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: April-14-2012 at 2:04pm
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Pete, no need for dowel pins on the couplings because of the fitted bolts, they hold a .000 clearance fit, normally if you have some mis-alignment at the couplings the bolts will not come out...up in the engine room it took a few light taps to get all the bolts out and the couplings didnt seperate, which tells me for now she is pretty good on the alignment up there, I really can see the 30 ft shaft as being the problem at this point because the port Aft bearing is worn at the 5 oclock position and the starboard is worn at the 7 oclock, the forward ones at the trans end are perfect. some history on the shafts are the are supposedly forgerd steel not stainless, they have been welded up twice at the bearing areas...i really think the shafts are just whooped....they think alignment, they are worn evenly on both sides from the prop torque, they spin out board, they are the original shafts, i really think they are experiencing the paprclip effect ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |
Posted By: eric lavine
Date Posted: April-14-2012 at 2:07pm
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key point, wheel speed is about 400 rpm at WOT because of the reduction ------------- "the things you own will start to own you" |