Shaft & Rudder Repack - Questions
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Boat Maintenance
Forum Discription: Discuss maintenance of your Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=26238
Printed Date: November-19-2024 at 12:33am
Topic: Shaft & Rudder Repack - Questions
Posted By: Infinite5ths
Subject: Shaft & Rudder Repack - Questions
Date Posted: May-31-2012 at 3:00am
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After reading a bunch of threads on here about steering issues, shaft packing glands, etc., I'm thinking about a repack for both the shaft and rudder port on my 1996 Nautique 176. REASONS TO REPACK: Prop Shaft: Boat is 16yrs old; packing is original; shaft seal leaks a bit more than the few drops/min specified in the manual. This could probably wait indefinitely; but if I'm going to pull everything up to repack the rudder port, why not replace this as well? Rudder Port: As described by Scrawford in http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21331&title=hard-steering" rel="nofollow - this thread , my steering is a little stiff under load. It's free & smooth across the full wheel range at idle & slow speed; but above ~10MPH it takes noticeably greater effort to turn the wheel beyond 1/2 crank from center, and particularly when returning to center from a hard turn (both directions). There is no play if I grab the rudder and move it side-side/front-back/up-down. The boat is certainly drive-able; and this doesn't appear to be a safety issue. But I'd like to loosen it up to extend the life of the (original) steering cable. I ordered a foot of 1/4" & 2 feet of 3/16" Gore-Tex packing from NautiqueParts.com. My guess is that the 3/16" is correct for this 1996 Nautique 176; but I have both if necessary. QUESTIONS: 1) Am I correct to assume that the shaft gland can be repacked without re-aligning the prop shaft? I have no reason to assume the shaft is out of alignment. The boat has less than 87hrs on it; it was in mint condition when we got it; and I haven't noticed any vibration/noise that would suggest a problem. If memory serves, turning hard (i.e. a P-turn) to port is much more noisy than to starboard, but my research on this forum suggests that the noise is prop cavitation from the OJ 3-blade that came stock on this model. 2) Is is reasonable to assume that re-packing the rudder port will lighten the steering under load? If it makes any difference, this boat has a bronze rudder (some may remember our discussion when I first posted about this boat), NOT the stainless eye-sore. [Picture of rudder below] 3) Do I need to grease the rudder shaft when repacking? This rudder port does NOT appear to have a grease zerk. 4) Where do you buy the stainless wire used to replace the safety wire on the shaft packing gland? Will Lowes/HomeDepot carry that in the proper gauge?  ------------- -- Mike http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6002 - 1996 Ski Nautique 176 |
Replies:
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: May-31-2012 at 9:12am
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Mike, I'd just try tightening the shaft gland first. With only 87 hours on it, I see no reason a repack is needed. You are correct that the packing has nothing to do with shaft alignment. Vibration and noise is not an indicator of an alignment problem so, pop the coupling open and check it. Do not assume it's good. The same goes for the rudder port. It also shound not need a repack. Disconnect the steering cable at the tiller arm and find out is the binding is the rudder/port or the cable. I wouls suspect the cable first. You can grease if you want but it will wash out since you do not have the rudder port designed for grease. For wire, find someone with a MIG welder that does stainless. They will have miles of stainless wire. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Infinite5ths
Date Posted: May-31-2012 at 1:10pm
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Thanks Pete! ------------- -- Mike http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6002 - 1996 Ski Nautique 176 |
Posted By: Infinite5ths
Date Posted: June-03-2012 at 7:37pm
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I detached the cable from the tiller arm and the wheel feels exactly the same. So I guess the next step is to tighten the rudder port. There is grease on top of the port, as if it got squeezed out at some point. I'm heading to Lowes to buy a 2nd large pipe wrench and some stainless safety wire. Then...off to the lake to try to fix & test this. Any other suggestions/tips/required-tools/parts? EDIT: I'm unclear on one thing. Once I tighten the gland nut on the rudder port (and secure it by counter-tightening the lock-nut), do I need to tighten the bolt on the top of the rudder shaft? Do I need to lower the tiller arm down the rudder shaft? In short, will tightening the port/packing-gland leave extra vertical length/slack in the rudder shaft, and (if so) do I need to eliminate it? How?  ------------- -- Mike http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6002 - 1996 Ski Nautique 176 |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: June-04-2012 at 12:14am
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I guess it's too late but these work great because they fit in small spaces,adjustable sink trap wrench- http://www.generaltools.com/190--ADJUSTABLE-WRENCH_p_170.html" rel="nofollow - Link- ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: Infinite5ths
Date Posted: June-04-2012 at 1:09am
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I got another big pipe wrench. It works; but it's a tight squeeze. UPDATE ON THIS PROJECT: Rudder Port: I hand-tightened the rudder gland nut this afternoon, and tested on the lake. The steering might be a tiny bit smoother; but extreme turns still take a couple hands to get the wheel moving back to center. It's about 3/4-turn before meeting resistance. However, the resistance is the same on both sides AND when turning or returning to center. I'm inclined to attribute this to turbulence from prop-wash and just accept it. It would be great to have "1-finger" steering across the whole wheel range; but so far I'm convinced that it's not a serious issue or wear on the cable. The only time one really uses extreme wheel positions at speed is when doing P-turns or pulling (GASP!) a tuber. Prop-shaft Packing Gland: Since we got the boat, the packing glad has dripped rapidly - just shy of a stream. It's not a huge problem; but we always have 1/2" of water around the plug after a ski outing. Today (as suggested by Pete B) I tried tightening the gland with the existing packing. With little effort, I was able to HAND-tighten the gland nut about 1/4-turn, resulting in 1-2 drips/sec. After a short run (~1min), the gland was too hot to touch (burned me slightly). (Also, the prop-shaft no longer turned slowly in neutral. I didn't notice this at first.) So I backed it off about 1/8-turn; and the gland is back to a fast-drip/stream, running warm to the touch. The original (16 year old) packing doesn't seem to be doing the job well. I plan to replace it with the Gore-Tex as soon as I can find stainless safety wire. The local hardware stores don't have it (wrong material or too thin); and I've not yet found a welder. Closest I got was 19AWG galvanized steel. In the mean time...a question: To replace the packing, do I have to release and move this silver thing (circled in picture)? It sits between the gland nut and transmission coupling.  ------------- -- Mike http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6002 - 1996 Ski Nautique 176 |
Posted By: notx2001
Date Posted: June-04-2012 at 2:12am
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Ya, you will just have to loosen it and slide it towards the coupling. Giving you enough room to remove the nut and insert the new packing. ------------- 82-2001 |
Posted By: fanofccfan
Date Posted: June-04-2012 at 2:19am
| That ring is the shaft retainer so if the shaft comes out of the cooulper for some odd reason it does slide out of the boat and end up on the bottom of the lake. Not to mention a one inch hole that would allow water in if it in fact slid out. To answer the question about the ring needing moved, yes it does. Loosen the set screw and slide it towards the trans coupler so you will have more room to do the packing work. Upon completion put it back in place. |
Posted By: Infinite5ths
Date Posted: June-04-2012 at 2:33am
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Thanks folks! Now I just need to find that stainless wire... ------------- -- Mike http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6002 - 1996 Ski Nautique 176 |
Posted By: skyway2k
Date Posted: June-04-2012 at 2:52am
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I'm repacking both my shaft and rudder and I, too, had problems finding any safety wire locally. I ended up just giving up trying to find it around town and bought some from Amazon.com. I can't believe none of the hardware or auto parts stores had any. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5240&sort=&pagenum=1 - '91 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: Dreaming
Date Posted: June-04-2012 at 4:13pm
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you can get safety wire from aircraft spruce & specialty, or may find it at your local aircraft parts supplier. be aware there are several different sizes of wire... most commonly .032 stainless wire is used, but .040 is also available, as is .020, and you can get different metals for different purposes. |
Posted By: Infinite5ths
Date Posted: June-04-2012 at 4:48pm
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Well, I found the wire. My boat mechanic (Powerboat Service - Raleigh, NC) has it (0.041" diameter). Diego & Lucy at Powerboat Service are wonderful. They got our 1996 PCM engine running perfectly last Summer. ...really nice folks too. Now why didn't I think to call them FIRST????? ------------- -- Mike http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6002 - 1996 Ski Nautique 176 |
Posted By: Infinite5ths
Date Posted: June-07-2012 at 4:10pm
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I replaced the packing this morning, taking out 3 rings of what looked like 1/4" flax packing. However, the 1/4" Gore-Tex was a very tight squeeze - probably would have had to gently ram it into the packing nut or 'screw' the nut over it. So I installed 4 rings of 3/16" instead. Using my calipers, the best measurement I could get for the I.D. of the gland nut was 1.46"-1.48". That suggests something just shy of 1/4" packing. I think a couple of the new rings may be cut a bit short, leaving a tiny gap between the ends. The stuff is a little stretchy. I cut one a touch long, one almost perfect, and a couple just shorter than I wanted. This may require a 2nd attempt. :-\ Tomorrow I take it to the lake and test (no more time today). If it leaks excessively, I'll have to make the 1/4" work. But I'm hoping that the fresh packing, Gore-Tex material and additional ring make the whole system work better. ------------- -- Mike http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6002 - 1996 Ski Nautique 176 |
Posted By: Infinite5ths
Date Posted: June-11-2012 at 10:13pm
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UPDATE: I tested the stuffing box this morning. In short - the 3/16" did not work; and I re-packed with two rings of 1/4" (which is actually closer to 0.28"). The 1/4" Gore-Tex sealed the stuffing box much more effectively. (3/16" leaked excessively until rather tight.) However, I had trouble getting it to run cool enough. At 1000RPM it was running above 110*F, spiking to 115*F. And at slalom speeds (3300RPM+) it was running 130*F with spikes to 150*F. That's way too hot. Oddly, the temps were not evenly distributed around the gland nut. On one side, it would read ~90*F; on the other side it would show 140-150*F. (Temps measured with my IR thermometer.) The coolest point was right in line with the cut ends of a packing ring (the one closest to the prop). So I'm going to re-pack again tonight and try again. I'm not sure if it's running hot because the fit is so tight (0.28" packing into a 0.24" opening). I plan to start with the gland nut even looser than today. (It was just threaded on to barely engage the nut with the packing.) I'm hoping I can get it to leak more initially this time. The Gore-Tex instructions advise a lot of leakage early. ------------- -- Mike http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6002 - 1996 Ski Nautique 176 |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-11-2012 at 10:36pm
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Mike, The packing can be a real PITA!! As many as I have done, I screwed with my X55 several times and actually ended up going back to the 3/16". the damn packing itself has really poor tolerances. With the X, I couldn't even get the 1/4" in the gland. The 3/16 was loose but I clamped down real tight on the packing nut to expand it and then backed it off. Regarding the tolerances, it's interesting that just last week I had the outside service (union certified for regs) come in and rebuild one of our fire sprinkler pumps. He came in with what had to be 100' rolls of Gortex. I asked him about the OD tolerance and he just couldn't seem to stop laughing!! BTW, this union guy had plenty to say about Walker and Wisconsin!! I doubt he'll be looking for a job in that state!  (he could unscrew bolts but really, that was about it!) And, to think his incompetence is being protected by his union membership!!  Sorry about the rant here!!At work, I do use the stuff too and I find the same issue on the OD. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Infinite5ths
Date Posted: June-12-2012 at 12:28am
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Well, I don't mind trying again and learning as I go. But how much risk is there (in this process) of scoring the drive-shaft or overheating parts, thereby causing a bigger problem? I started out with leaky 16yo flax packing. So far I've managed to 'improve' the situation to either a HOT stuffing box or a comparably leaky Gore-Tex packed box. :-o ------------- -- Mike http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6002 - 1996 Ski Nautique 176 |
Posted By: 65 'cuda
Date Posted: June-12-2012 at 1:00am
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Try to get the packing a little tight (too long), bevel cut the ends so they overlap, stagger the three joints around the shaft, tightent it progressively, it will leak at first. Once you get everything seated, hand tight will be all you need, prior to locking it down. ------------- Gary http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=941" rel="nofollow - 1965 Barracuda SS |
Posted By: Infinite5ths
Date Posted: June-12-2012 at 1:59am
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OK...so here's the plan: 1) Repack tonight with 4 rings of 3/16" Gore-Tex (beveled & joints staggered 90 degrees). I KNOW the 3/16" leaks - so hopefully no more heat issues. Also, the 1/4" Gore-Tex was a PAIN to get out of the gland this evening. 2) Set the nut so packing is barely squeezed in the gland. Secure the packing nut with the lock nut so I can run the boat for an hour or two. 3) Run the boat with nut/packing barely squeezed & check for high temps. Leave it this way till I'm satisfied there are no high temps. 4) After an hour or two running, slowly, progressively (1/2-bevel turn each 0.5hr motor run time?) tighten nut, checking temps at each stage. Ideally, I will find a slow enough drip rate before getting any temps above 100*F. This step should take at least 1 hr run time according to the Gore-Tex installation instruction PDF. 5) Lock it down for good & install the safety wire. Pray it lasts another 16yrs. ;-) I'm debating whether to try Pete's suggestion of clamping it down then backing off the nut. My only concern is that the Gore-Tex install PDF specifically says: "Do not jam the packing into place by excessive gland loading" [Step #5] (Link to PDF: http://www.gore.com/MungoBlobs/123/433/fiber_installation_instructions.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://www.gore.com/MungoBlobs/123/433/fiber_installation_instructions.pdf ) The Gore-Tex documents are available here if people need anything else: http://www.gore.com/en_xx/products/sealants/packing/fiber_installation_instructions.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.gore.com/en_xx/products/sealants/packing/fiber_installation_instructions.html ------------- -- Mike http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6002 - 1996 Ski Nautique 176 |
Posted By: Infinite5ths
Date Posted: June-13-2012 at 2:54am
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Finished step #3 above -- gland temp is ~87*F after extended run at 3500RPM+ (lake water temp is 79*F) It's leaking more than the old packing, but not enough to kick in the bilge pump after 30min on the water. So I'm going to ski & cruise for another hour or so before tightening it down progressively. Meanwhile, I'll check the lock nut frequently to be sure it doesn't let loose (no safety wire till gland is fully adjusted). I chose not to clamp/release before dropping it in the water. We'll see how this works & lasts long-term. ------------- -- Mike http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6002 - 1996 Ski Nautique 176 |