$600 (+-) Oil Change
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Engine Repair
Forum Discription: Engine problems and solutions
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=27025
Printed Date: November-21-2024 at 2:25pm
Topic: $600 (+-) Oil Change
Posted By: 84 BFN
Subject: $600 (+-) Oil Change
Date Posted: July-17-2012 at 3:08pm
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Hi: I’ve been trying to remove what’s left of my oil filter for 2 weekends. My boat is a 1984 Barefoot with a 454. When I attempted to remove the oil filter, it essentially crushed when using the oil filter wrench. The oil filter body was about as thick as or maybe a tad thicker than a aluminum can. Long story short and about $100.00 later the only part left of the oil filter is the base. I took the boat to a mechanic and he said that he’s going to have to pull the engine loose ($600 +-) in order to get to the filter. Does anyone know of a better alternative - other then dynamite? Thanks. ------------- 84 BFN Longwood, Florida |
Replies:
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: July-17-2012 at 3:20pm
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Wow. Who installed the filter, Superman?! I guess that makes a good case for only installing it hand tight. I cant think of anything else that would be helpful- now that the body of the filter is gone, youve lost pretty much all your leverage. No way would I be paying anyone $600 to pull my engine out of the boat. With the right tools, its a quick and easy job. Hopefully that amount includes engine removal, oil filter removal, engine reinstallation and alignment, if it does come to that. Where are you located? Add your location to your profile so others can see- maybe someone close to you has a helpful idea. ------------- |
Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: July-17-2012 at 3:36pm
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I'm guessing the 454 filters are a little tougher to get to than the 351s? When this type of thing happens in Auto repair, guys would take a blade type chisel, and set it at an angle. Then tap, tap, tap to bite in a little and put some rotation. It requires a skillful hand. |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: July-17-2012 at 3:41pm
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The filter location on the engine isnt really any more inaccessible on a 454 than a 351w... but the v-hull boats like the BFN have their engines set down on the primary stringers, which are 6" lower than the floor. It can make access a little more difficult. ------------- |
Posted By: rcthorpe
Date Posted: July-17-2012 at 3:51pm
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Post pictures. It might be interesting to get some ideas once we can take a look at it. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6276&sort=&pagenum=1" rel="nofollow - 1997 Ski Nautique - Sold |
Posted By: 84 BFN
Date Posted: July-17-2012 at 3:55pm
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I’m located in Longwood Florida. The location of the filter gives almost no leverage. I tried getting a screw driver on the base but the oil filter location on the block has about a 1” lip around the filter. The way my luck is going, if I attempted to pry a edge of the base down I would probably end up cracking the block. ------------- 84 BFN Longwood, Florida |
Posted By: rcthorpe
Date Posted: July-17-2012 at 4:01pm
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That's why I don't go to any of the Uncle Jiffy oil change places anymore. I have damaged a few oil filters removing them after a gorilla with an impact wrench and prybar tightened it on at the lube shop. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6276&sort=&pagenum=1" rel="nofollow - 1997 Ski Nautique - Sold |
Posted By: 89Martinique
Date Posted: July-17-2012 at 4:18pm
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this is why you oil the rubber ring for the oil filter! who ever installed the oil filter didnt oil the ring and now its a b!tch to get off. good luck But when you get a new filter. OIL THE RUBBER SEAL!!! ------------- Current Boats: 1992 Supra Comp-TS6M PCM 351w HO Pro Boss Pro-Tec Ignition - Full Composite (no wood stingers!) 1989 (3rd Gen) Correct Craft Martinique B/R PCM 351w Power Plus 1984 E-Scow Keuka Lake, |
Posted By: grim007
Date Posted: July-17-2012 at 4:42pm
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On top of filter are small drain holes, i had to place two screws in holes 180* apart and used a screwdriver to twist out the piece that was left, i don't know if you have the clearance for something like that, good luck and keep your patience. ------------- shaken not stirred |
Posted By: NEDLUTZ
Date Posted: July-17-2012 at 5:03pm
| I had this happen on my 87 BFN,and we used a pair of needle nose pliers and a screwdriver.(use a pair pliers that you don't want to keep, because they might twist depending on how tight it really is.) |
Posted By: 84 BFN
Date Posted: July-17-2012 at 6:38pm
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Is the oil filter outlet on the block completely open? It seems like there is a cross pattern (best way to describe it)- at the base of the block oil filter opening and the oil filter base sits on that. I like the pliers method - but am concerned about the opening in the block. ------------- 84 BFN Longwood, Florida |
Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: July-17-2012 at 6:41pm
In regard to the needle nose pliers: If a needle nose pliers is good, a needle nose Vise Grip might be better:
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Posted By: Dreaming
Date Posted: July-17-2012 at 6:47pm
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Pictures would definitely be helpful, but without seeing your situation, i would suggest a pipe wrench. maybe a strap style wrench would work as well? http://www.bikebandit.com/motion-pro-oil-filter-cloth-strap-wrench" rel="nofollow - cloth type strap wrench |
Posted By: NEDLUTZ
Date Posted: July-17-2012 at 6:50pm
 this is what it should look like. |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: July-17-2012 at 6:58pm
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If worse comes to worse & you have to pull the engine, it can be done for far less than $600. You can rent a hoist at a rental shop for maybe $50. It would be a full afternoon of R&R, but you would get to clean under the engine! ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: 84 BFN
Date Posted: July-17-2012 at 7:09pm
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Crud! I didn't want to do this! All this hassle for a stupid cheap a#$ oil filter! Would I have to re-align the transmission? ------------- 84 BFN Longwood, Florida |
Posted By: Fl Inboards
Date Posted: July-17-2012 at 7:13pm
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Call my friend Bull 407 855 2115. He has B.I.M.P mobile ski boat repair in Orlando. He is also known as Mr. Bigblock as he has one of the coolest blown drag drop top camaro's in Florida. I am sure he can get the boatback up and running oil filter and all. ------------- Hobby Boats can be expensive when the hobbyist is limited on their own skill and expertise. 1993 Shamrock "fat" 20. 2008 Nautique 196 5.0 |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-17-2012 at 7:24pm
Chances are yes. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
84 BFN wrote:Posted By: harriss28
Date Posted: July-17-2012 at 7:46pm
| Would it be possible to have someone weld a big nut onto the remaining piece of the filter. Then the filter could be removed with a socket. |
Posted By: Fl Inboards
Date Posted: July-17-2012 at 8:16pm
Yea! Lets "Weld" on it while it is in the boat!!  Sorry! No welding in Boats!!! Fiberglass does not weld well but it does burn nice and hot! ------------- Hobby Boats can be expensive when the hobbyist is limited on their own skill and expertise. 1993 Shamrock "fat" 20. 2008 Nautique 196 5.0 |
Posted By: oldcuda
Date Posted: July-17-2012 at 8:18pm
| Just use a 4x4 with a block on one side and a bottle jack on the other side and a chain in center to lift back of motor/trans enough to get access to whats left of filter.This way you only have to take two big nuts off rear mounts and loosen fronts and of course coupler to propshaft.This way you leave motor mount bases alone and alignment is minimal.Usually get a grip on whats left of filter with a pipe wrench.If I was going thru this I would be installing remote oil filter at same time.very easy with this motor and never have this problem again |
Posted By: 64stang
Date Posted: July-17-2012 at 11:47pm
| Make a tool. Get a new filter with the same drain hole spread diameter on the base. Now take a nut and weld it onto a 3-inch plate and then weld 6, 2-inch rods onto the other side of the plate using the new filter as a guide. The length of the rods depends on how much of the threaded feed is sticking out of the block. The shorter the rods the stiffer the tool will be. Now take that tool and remove the old filter base, it will have enough purchase easily. Considering the cost of this tool, I would never remove the motor if I did not absolutely have to. |
Posted By: ononewheel
Date Posted: July-18-2012 at 2:40am
If this method does;nt get it off the block, you are not doing it right. Long chisel? Get that plate to bend even, and you are almost home. I have used a chisel to cut from the holes toward the large threaded hole, started tearing the plate, and it will loosen before you have to tear into the threaded part. Oh yea, I swear and get mad. 20 MF'ers and that filter is good as off. If that doesn't work, I'd take it to the oldest longest standing auto shop in town(not a dearship), talk to the guy that has turned wrenches for 25 years, get him a bottle of his favorite booze, $50, and you will be boating in a couple hours. He has the tools, knowhow and this is minor compared to the crap he deals with everyday and doesn't get to charge boat yard prices. ------------- If we let the professionals do everything it takes all the fun out of youtube |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: July-18-2012 at 3:09am
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So, what brand was the filter? ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: 84 BFN
Date Posted: July-18-2012 at 10:30am
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The oil filter was a generic POC. This is the tool that I purchased on the internet. It had another piece which I eventually removed. I found that the holes for the bolts line up with the holes in the oil filter. I’m using hardened bolts and they are bending or breaking. I think that there is a partial obstruction in the opening of the block. I originally used bolts that were going into the oil filter holes about 1”, but it seemed that they were getting hung up on something inside the block opening. I have since shortened the bolts so they are going into the oil filter only (about ¼” +-). Now it’s a real pain with almost zero leverage.    ------------- 84 BFN Longwood, Florida |
Posted By: oldcuda
Date Posted: July-18-2012 at 3:46pm
| Maybe take a hacksaw blade and slip it between filter and block.The more seal you can cut the less it will take to turn it.I know fire and boats dont mix but I have cut rubber seal with a red hot razor and filter base spins right off |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: July-18-2012 at 3:53pm
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if you haven't gotten it by now just call Bull ------------- |
Posted By: 64stang
Date Posted: July-18-2012 at 3:58pm
| I would be concerned about a hacksaw damaging the flange on the block! |
Posted By: 84 BFN
Date Posted: July-18-2012 at 4:25pm
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Thanks, I called Bull & left a message. A hacksaw wouldn't work. There is a 1" flange on the block that encompasses the oil filter base, plus I'm really paranoid about damaging the block. This job should've taken an hour tops. I'm now going on my third weekend… ------------- 84 BFN Longwood, Florida |
Posted By: grim007
Date Posted: July-18-2012 at 4:42pm
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Hang tough man and don't do anything rash that will cost you more. you'll get this and be boating soon!! ------------- shaken not stirred |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: July-18-2012 at 6:17pm
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and don't do anything that will give you rash ------------- |
Posted By: 75 Tique
Date Posted: July-18-2012 at 6:48pm
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Wow!! if that tool with the bolts in it didnt do it, that sucker must be welded on there. Can't be too careful, don't want them spinning off while your heading down the lake. ------------- _____________ “So, how was your weekend?” “Well, let me see…sun burn, stiff neck, screwed up back, assorted aches and pains….yup, my weekend was great, thanks for asking.” |
Posted By: quinner
Date Posted: July-18-2012 at 7:04pm
Righty Tighty Lefty Lucy ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1143" rel="nofollow - Mi Bowt |
Posted By: Dreaming
Date Posted: July-18-2012 at 7:13pm
from the way your bolts are bent, this may be timely advice  anotherthought...if you could get a 90 degree angle pick between the filter seal and the flange, you could run some oil down the shaft of the pick, and onto the filter seal... do this in several locations to help unglue the seal from the motor? |
Posted By: 84 BFN
Date Posted: July-18-2012 at 8:02pm
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I’m spinning it counter clockwise – toward the front seat (left) or toward the front of the engine. Man, after a while I started doubting the direction, so I used a 1/2” PVC fitting with the new filter to confirm. I talked to Bull and said to use brute force to get it off. So I plan on working from the holes in the oil filter base with a small cold chisel and start prying but staying away from the block. There is an insert in the block that could get damaged if I go completely nuts, but he said it can be replaced. I’ll let you know what happens. ------------- 84 BFN Longwood, Florida |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: July-18-2012 at 8:10pm
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Since everyone else has chimed in. Line slip joint pliers up with the holes Tap them in with a hammer and turn the correct way and it will spin right out. Mike ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: harriss28
Date Posted: July-18-2012 at 11:05pm
With proper precaution, a nut can be tacked on, no problems. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-18-2012 at 11:09pm
Shawn, Could you detail the precaution(s) needed? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: mark c
Date Posted: July-18-2012 at 11:28pm
That sounds like its clockwise, which is correct. Guess its all in your point of view, looking down from the top clockwise loosens it, looking up from below clockwise tightens it). Oil filter is on the left side of the engine, if you put a wrench on the filter with the handle sticking out to the left and pull the handle towards the bow (rotating clockwise), thats will loosen the filter, if you pull the handle towards the stern that would be tightening the filter (rotating counterclockwise). |
Posted By: harriss28
Date Posted: July-19-2012 at 12:27am
cover work area, get some wet rags to extinguish possible flame...done |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: July-19-2012 at 1:25am
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I know a guy who's shop burnt down due to weld spark that landed in the wrong place. I would save this option as a 2nd to last resort. Pulling engine is last. ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-19-2012 at 8:49am
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Shawn, Thanks for filling me in on the precautions needed for welding. I need to ask, in your line of work, do you ever need to "pull" a "hot work" permit for welding or cutting per OSHA? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: July-19-2012 at 11:51am
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I would weld that sucker with nothing but some fans, a few leathers, and some wet rags and not worry about it one bit. I dont know a chevy from chrysler but on a ford the insert that the filter is screwed onto has a large allen socket in the middle if the chevy is the same way I would get me a good well fitting tool in that and put the insert and what is left of the filter off. But I would be sure of the direction it is threaded in before doing so… as it might not be soo righty tighty lefty loosey to keep it from coming out with the filter. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: mark c
Date Posted: July-19-2012 at 12:58pm
Big block (and small block) Chevies made after 1967 have bolt on oil filter adapters attached to the block with 5/16" bolts. After you get the filter off, remove it and get a remote oil filter adapter and move the filter to a more accessible location. |
Posted By: 84 BFN
Date Posted: July-21-2012 at 4:18pm
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I got it off. I followed Bulls advice and used brute force. I used a punch and bent the base ever so slightly and then I use the modified tool to spin the base off (counter clock wise or spinning toward the seats). What a relief! Now I can go skiing!! It would have been a drag to pull the engine just for the oil filter and then have to pull it again for the stringer project early next year. Thanks for the help!    ------------- 84 BFN Longwood, Florida |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-21-2012 at 4:38pm
  That gasket sure looks dry. Plus, I have a feeling that filter was over tightened.------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: July-21-2012 at 4:46pm
I'll bet a Fram would have come off easier due to their construction  ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: 64stang
Date Posted: July-21-2012 at 6:04pm
| I like Fram as well, but that was a Purelator Premium filter, not really a junk filter by any means. I think too tight along with no oil on seal was the cause. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-21-2012 at 6:15pm
Why? After reading all the tech reports on the junk Fram!!!   BTW, Gary was being factious. Sorry you didn't pick up on that even though he added all the emoticons!! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 64stang
Date Posted: July-21-2012 at 6:41pm
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I should have cought the emotocons, actually I ignore them. I like Fram because of the grippy surface and usually use the better ones. The grippy surfacde allows me to put it on by hand and not worry about using a wrench. Some filters are so smooth that I can't grip them and end up using a tool, thus they may end up too tight. But I did sell auto/truck filters for a while and had some training on them and actually all have a pressure release spring that allows oil to bypass the filter during extreme conditions, like hard accelleration. That being said, too much filtration causes the bypass to activate more often. A good quality filter changed frequently enough provides more than adequate protection. By the way, thanks for all the help with my boat. Mark |
Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: July-23-2012 at 1:43pm
| Wow, must have felt awesome when that thing finally came loose. |