stringer lumber
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Boat Maintenance
Forum Discription: Discuss maintenance of your Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=27352
Printed Date: November-18-2024 at 6:29pm
Topic: stringer lumber
Posted By: Heidelberg52
Subject: stringer lumber
Date Posted: August-07-2012 at 12:02am
| My stringer, floor replacement project has progressed to the construction part of the rebuild. I have decided to go with wood stringers and closed cell foam.I spent some time at local hardware stores looking at 2x8x14 fir, all I could see was unusable,(twisted or some weird bow). So my question is where do you purchase useable lumber? |
Replies:
Posted By: 65 'cuda
Date Posted: August-07-2012 at 12:05am
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Find out where the local pro's get their lumber. Douglas fir. ------------- Gary http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=941" rel="nofollow - 1965 Barracuda SS |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: August-07-2012 at 12:11am
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Martin - If you can't find decent lumber locally, you might want to consider LVL. Big Pappa just finished a re-string with that stuff & it came out great. http://correctcraftfan.com/forum/search_results_posts.asp?SearchID=20120806210745&KW=" rel="nofollow - LVL ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: LilRichard
Date Posted: August-07-2012 at 1:33am
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Ok, may step In a pile of dog doo here, but I have seen you guys talking about using lumber in a build. have you guys considered using plywood before? Marine grade ply (maranti, okoume) are IMHO superior strength wise versus traditional lumber. There's also a company called plum creek that manufactures a marine ply that is pressure treated, but then RE-DRIED in the kiln so that resin will adhere to it. That stuff has superior rot protection in addition to great strength. Just throwing it out there... |
Posted By: Heidelberg52
Date Posted: August-07-2012 at 1:57am
| Thanks for the plywood idea. My concern using plywood is the motor mounting hardware not getting a good grip between the plywood layers. I also wonder if it would be too rigid if the plies are laminated vertically or if it would be too flexible if the plies are laminated horizontally? I really don't know and would like to hear from anyone that may have used laminated plywood. |
Posted By: LilRichard
Date Posted: August-07-2012 at 2:01am
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I've only seen it used where the layers are placed perpindicular to the hull, obviously creates more strength as you noted. Regarding hardware I think you'd be fine, but again, I'm asking, not telling... That being said, it's ALL I have ever seen used on other rebuild sites (when wood is used) that are non-ski boat related. |
Posted By: Big Pappa
Date Posted: August-07-2012 at 2:42am
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I used LVL, which from what I have read is just laminated Douglas Fir strips, in my project. I am very pleased with the way it turned out. The LVL is a little thicker than the 2X stock but there is plenty of room in there for it. Taking it out on a test run weekend before last the boat was stiff as a board and handled the chop so much better than before!! As far as using the ply, it could be done but I would be worried about getting everything laminated together. If I was going to go through that much work I believe I would go with Coosa board. It would not bee that much more expensive that Marine grade, but you would never have to worry about rot again. Plus others here have used it before and would be able to help you if you have questions. ------------- http://bit.ly/Mghpvx" rel="nofollow - Big Pappa http://bit.ly/L4zRW0" rel="nofollow - My Project |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-07-2012 at 5:12am
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No on the ply. As mentioned due to every other veneer layer having the gain of the wood in the wrong direction, you will not get the strength needed. Also, where would you find 14' long plywood? You would need to scarf and stagger the joint but you would still have the grain problem. Yes on the LVL. All it's veneer layers run the length. No on the treated. It's not the moisture that hurts the bond. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: LilRichard
Date Posted: August-07-2012 at 11:17am
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Brainard, yes, you scarf the ply. If moisture isn't the problem with treated, what do you suggest is? Prior to using it for my deck I did some pretty good research on the topic - of which I will dig up and provide. Regarding the strength, so many boats were made factory with ply stringers it would take all day to list them. But I can tell you one right off the topof my head: Makos. They are a hell of a strong boat and all the 70s - 80s boats were made with ply stringers. They had rot problems just like Nautiques, but I never saw one rebuilt with a broken stringer that wasn't rotten. I'd argue that those hulls take way more abuse than a freshwater boat. You'd fracture the hull lamination beforen you'd have to worry about the stringer giving way. Once again, not trying to stir the pot, but there are many ways to skin a cat.... And I think suggesting one way only is leaving something on the table. |
Posted By: LilRichard
Date Posted: August-07-2012 at 11:27am
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As promised. This is just the first one I found this morning... http://www.glen-l.com/wood-plywood/fiberglass-plywood.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.glen-l.com/wood-plywood/fiberglass-plywood.html |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: August-07-2012 at 11:28am
How many were inboards? ------------- |
LilRichard wrote:Posted By: Jllogan
Date Posted: August-07-2012 at 11:40am
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I actually found real nice douglas fir at my local menards, they have a good lumber selection. Keep checking around Im sure you can find a good lumber yard, in general big box stores will not have what you want, I just lucked out. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5792&sort=&pagenum=1" rel="nofollow - 1986 Ski Nautique 2001 |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-07-2012 at 11:51am
I just did some research a well. Lot's of technical papers out there o epoxy bonding treated. Here's an interesting comment: "Limitations of pressure-treated plywood Many people ask about the value of pressure treated plywood. Often, pressure treated plywood is heavily warped. This is primarily the result of the high temperature and rapid moisture take up during processing. Some plywood delaminates during the process. In addition, some pressure treating methods incorporate water repellant materials. These materials can easily jeopardize bonding so you won't be able to glue or paint the plywood successfully. Generally speaking, pressure treated plywood may be acceptable for house projects but not for boats." I'll stick with the CPES and epoxy method for plain old wood!  ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: August-07-2012 at 12:04pm
Tim has the real answer here... do not try to compare the stringer requirements of transom mounted engine boats OB or I/O with v hulls to flat bottomed inboards with the drive train located midships. Plywood stringers rot.. badly. If you are willing to cut and laminate then as mentioned above you should use coosa or similar, for a couple hundred bucks more you would have a much better finished product. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: LilRichard
Date Posted: August-07-2012 at 12:14pm
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True, not like Mako made any inboards using that method. Or Shamrock. http://www.classicmako.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=17843" rel="nofollow - http://www.classicmako.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=17843 |
Posted By: LilRichard
Date Posted: August-07-2012 at 12:19pm
| I don't disagree with coosa... It's a superior product. I went foam filled in my boat for longevity, composite is the way to go... But it's a less forgiving methodl than wood. |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: August-07-2012 at 12:35pm
In what way? ------------- |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: August-07-2012 at 12:55pm
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That mako is an obvious example of the difference in stringer requirements between a flat bottom ski boat and a deeper v hulled boat. Those very large bulkheads combined with the shape of the hull transfer all the loading to the hull side walls very effectively. The stringers do not serve the same structural purpose as those in a Ski Nautique. IMHO Coosa is more forgiving that plywood in every possible way. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: LilRichard
Date Posted: August-07-2012 at 12:59pm
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Depending on the composite, your glass layup schedule is more or less important. Coosa (specifically high density, like the bluewater series) is a core material with good strength, but poly foam (the method I used) is not structural, thus your layup schedule is critical. Plus when using a composite like Nidacore, the builder must remove and backfill or sleeve the material any place a fastener will be attached. Last, compression forces: wood holds up better to compression than many composites. Hence you have a little more room for error with wood as a novice builder than with SOME composites. |
Posted By: LilRichard
Date Posted: August-07-2012 at 1:02pm
Pls see two posts above yours... I don't disagree. |
Posted By: YooperSully
Date Posted: August-12-2012 at 10:14am
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I also used lvl's in my rebuild. I ran them through a planer to get them down to a 1 1/2". The boat builder that I purchased all of my supplies from only rebuilds stringers with plywood. He doesn't lam them together how I thought he would instead he cuts them into strips and then stacks them adhered with resin until he gets to the height of the original stringer. He's been using this method for over 25 years now with no issues. ------------- 87' 2001 |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-12-2012 at 1:52pm
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Roger, That is an interesting concept with the laminating to build the height. Did he comment about CPES? Did you use it? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: YooperSully
Date Posted: August-14-2012 at 11:16am
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I bought it but didn't use it on my boat. My whole project was done with polyester resin instead of epoxy so it wasn't compatible with my build. But he had never heard of it. When he gets into big pieces of wood such as transoms he'll pepper the marine ply with 1/8" holes in a 3" grid then he'll two coat it with poly resin. This guy grew up in the marine industry building Donsi (spelling) boats. Off shore racers. Boats that do 80+ over choppy ocean waves. When I explained my project to him in the beginning I was planning on using epoxy. But after talking to him I switched to poly resin. One comment that sticks with me that he said was " are you trying to rebuild a ski boat or are you trying to build an icebreaker". ------------- 87' 2001 |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: August-14-2012 at 5:49pm
If you have spent any time on the Donzi site you will find people,like here, are even pulling decks off and built in fuel tanks to repair rot. Some of their core wood is or I should say was balsa. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-14-2012 at 8:00pm
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Gary, The exact same thought crossed by mind. The Donzi's a pretty light weight and actually not built very well. Maybe the "old timer" needs to turn some Donzi's into ice breakers!!!  I think the years of him using the poly has gotten to his brain!  The bottom line is he is doing cheap repairs using cheap poly. Epoxy not compatible? I'd wager to say he hasn't ever used CPES ether. Drilling holes in wood for penetration?? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: YooperSully
Date Posted: August-15-2012 at 2:15pm
Sorry for thread jacking this. This will be my last off topic post on this thread, but Peter, I might need to brush up on Ohms law,because I get unvalidated resistance from you. I don't know much about Donzi but on any level of common sense, if you can stick a 43' boat out in the ocean with 1025 horsepower and it returns back to shore after doing 80 MPH+ over choppy seas time after time. That build method is good enough for me. Yeah I get it that people are tearing their boats apart and fixing issues, but profitable companies don't build product to last forever. There is always more than one way to cross a river. Just because you floated a log to cross doesn't mean everyone else has to. Go buy a steel ship, much superior to a fiberglass vessel and 20-30 years down the road you're still going to need to give the hull and structure repairs. If cheap repairs with cheap products combined with good craftsmanship get the job done, then I'm on board. Why spend more money on materials than you need to? His repairs hold up. Plain and Simple. His poly work has held up for years on boats bashing around on Lake Superior. Plain and simple, Poly or Epoxy, this is America, I thought individuals had the right to choose? I have yet to read a post where someone is saying "I used poly and it just came apart"  ------------- 87' 2001 |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-15-2012 at 2:58pm
Roger, It was this statement that got me going! Did you misunderstand the compatibility issue? What isn't epoxy compatible with?BTW, my next CC will be the bridge erector. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: YooperSully
Date Posted: August-16-2012 at 12:51pm
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CPES is an epoxy product. So if I'm laying poly over the top of it, it isn't a compatible combination. ------------- 87' 2001 |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-16-2012 at 3:19pm
Roger, When you said "I bought it", I wasn't sure what "it" was! Yes, you are correct that poly will not stick to epoxy. The CPES is the "primer" for epoxy resin. So, this person talked you out of going epoxy all the way. Way back, I thought you were going epoxy. Did you end up using his method of drilling holes all over the lumber so you got some penetration of the poly? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: August-16-2012 at 3:55pm
I guess the fact you had to replace yours it's already been said If you didn't use foam you'll probably be allright and the chances you'll keep it as long as Pete keeps a boat any way are remote ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: YooperSully
Date Posted: August-17-2012 at 1:29am
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Correct. No epoxy whatso ever. I didn't drill holes all over either, all I did was two coats of poly resin over the lvl, then I coated them in 1 oz. mat, then 3/4 mat before they were layed into the boat. This was the best I could come up with once I ruled out the epoxy. It wouldn't be fair to say that he talked me out of epoxy. It was more of a choice of convenience. He was willing to get me all the epoxy that I wanted but he had the drums of poly on hand. I knew if I needed a bit more that it was convenient to just go and pick up what I needed instead of waiting for the ups man to show up. To be honest if I had to pay more for epoxy, the project probably wouldn't even be finnished this year. On a different note about foam or no foam. I kicked the idea around for the year and a half that I had my boat torn apart and decided to put it back in. Yesterday a friend of mine sent me a picture of his boat. He had just left from filling up at the local marina, about 500 yards out he felt a hesitation and the boat rocked slightly, 3 seconds later the passengers where screaming WATER. He throttled down and headed towards shore. By the way this is a Mastercraft from the late 90's by the time he got to shore the water level was calf high in the boat. Long story short. He hit something in the water and from the front wakeboard tower support all the way back to about 6 inches short of the transom his hull is torn open. It's a gash 3 inches deep through the glass and into the foam. The glass on one side of the gouge is missing about 8 inches x 9 feet. The culprit is believed to be an old dock pylon from the shipping days of 80 years ago. Pylons were placed in the water then beams were bolted to the top in order to build the docks. After years the beams would rot off leaving 16" or so of bolt protruding from the top of the pylon. Down the lake people are putting in a new 6 slip dock where these pylons are. They must of moved a few to get their new structure in and released one out into the shipping canal. The whole thing was probably under water a couple of feet leaving the bolt and head a few inches under the water because none of the 5 on board seen anything in the water. But regardless if that boat didn't have the foam in it it would have never made it back to shore. So for me personaly if my floor only last 15 years because I put foam back in it then so be it. If my boat was foamless and then I saw how quick an accident like this can happen and what it can lead to, I wouldn't have one moment at ease out on my boat. ------------- 87' 2001 |
Posted By: YooperSully
Date Posted: August-17-2012 at 12:00pm
 ------------- 87' 2001 |
Posted By: baitkiller
Date Posted: August-17-2012 at 12:15pm
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Not a piling. Laminate failure from a bad initial layup aggravated and failure initiated by hydraulic erosion. Latent Manf. defect. Lets hope his adjuster is as clueless as most seem to be. That boat is totaled. I am sure glad none was hurt. ------------- Jesus was a bare-footer............. |
Posted By: LilRichard
Date Posted: August-17-2012 at 1:23pm
How can you tell? I am not an expert on fiberglass failure, so curious how you read that from the picture? Absolutely NOT meant as a challenge to your diagnosis... I just look at that and go "wow"... but couldn't tell you why it failed. |
Posted By: YooperSully
Date Posted: August-17-2012 at 1:34pm
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there is a gouge in the foam that you can stick your pinky in just about the whole length from something, definately not just a failure. ------------- 87' 2001 |
Posted By: infoleather
Date Posted: August-22-2012 at 3:52am
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