Engine rebuild questions
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Engine Repair
Forum Discription: Engine problems and solutions
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=27436
Printed Date: May-29-2024 at 8:01pm
Topic: Engine rebuild questions
Posted By: 73SN
Subject: Engine rebuild questions
Date Posted: August-13-2012 at 5:19pm
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Engine rebuild questions Looks like I'll be rebuilding/replacing my 351W. Clacking noise when it cranks then quickly dies. I pulled the valve covers and the oil is mixed with water. Not sure if there is a hole in the block or what. I'll be pulling the intake manifold and the heads tonight after work to see what I can see. I've replaced car engines and done a good bit with old Ford engines but never rebuilt any, but I figured I can tackle this with some help from the Grand Poobahs and such. I know I may be getting ahead of myself but, if it is the block am I going to have a tough time finding a replacement? If the block is in good condition can I rebuild it without removing the engine? I've seen the reverse-rotation rebuild kits on ebay for $525. Is there a better place to buy, a better price anywhere? What else should I rebuild or replace while I’m in there? Getting tired of being towed… |
Replies:
Posted By: Jllogan
Date Posted: August-13-2012 at 5:21pm
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take it out, it really isnt that hard and trust me working on an engine stand is way easier and faster than climbing in and out of the boat. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5792&sort=&pagenum=1" rel="nofollow - 1986 Ski Nautique 2001 |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: August-13-2012 at 10:32pm
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Paul do yourself a favor and get http://books.google.com/books/about/How_to_Rebuild_Small_Block_Ford_Engines.html?id=RcArF8_UfAcC" rel="nofollow - this book You will have to pull it,to properly rebuild you might have to bore it and have the crank turned and that cannot be done with it still in.Pull it apart and have a machine shop check it out and make sure they know it's marine and reverse rotation. Then if you need a block go from there. Don't know where your at but I checked the Chicago Craigs List and there were several 351's on there. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: 71CCMartinique
Date Posted: August-21-2012 at 12:36am
| I just finished engine replacement in my 71 Martinique. It's really easy. Be sure to mark everything and take pictures of your cooling piping. A good rebuild manual is a must. I bought a long block LM318 from marineengine.com. I swapped necessary parts from old to new and bolted it in. Good luck and enjoy. |
Posted By: 73SN
Date Posted: August-21-2012 at 1:00am
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Secured a hoist and stand Saturday. down to the block without a cam shaft and still don't know what the issue is. Should've had it out Sunday but been busy. Short block may be in the cards. I'll know this week. Chaos |
Posted By: 73SN
Date Posted: August-25-2012 at 4:23pm
| Spun a rod bearing. |
Posted By: turningpoint84
Date Posted: August-27-2012 at 4:57pm
How much did you pay, and did you bother to shop around? I might do this myself. ------------- Proud 1968 mustang owner and now http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6454&sort=&pagenum1" rel="nofollow - 1970 Mustang |
71CCMartinique wrote:Posted By: 71CCMartinique
Date Posted: August-28-2012 at 12:35am
| I shopped around and compared the cost to rebuild and to replace. I found my best buy at marineengine.com. It was around $2300 for a delivered long block with a 2 year warranty. The problems I had during swap were self inflicted. Motor fired right away and runs great. |
Posted By: 73SN
Date Posted: August-30-2012 at 12:27am
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TS/Hurricane Isaac kept me from taking the parts to the machine shop today: $1016 for machine labor. I'll handle it Friday. I estimate RevRot engine rebuild kit at $300-$500. |
Posted By: 73SN
Date Posted: September-03-2012 at 9:49am
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I dropped off the engine parts at the machine shop Friday. I have a couple of friends who have done engine builds, one who has an encyclopedic knowledge of engines, but seems to be a bit unsure on the reverse rotation. Well, he's pretty sure of himself, I just need reassuring. Ford 351W in a '73 Ski Nautique: When I disassembled the crank portion the pistons had notches facing the front of the engine (like normal), the rods and caps were numbered 1-8 (like normal): front to rear 1-4 on the right and 5-8 on the left. The guy at the machine shop said he thought the pistons notches were supposed to face the rear on a reverse rotation engine (mentioned working on Mercury for years). I told him I was positive (video and photo reference) the pistons were arrange normally. He said there had to be an "offset" to prevent "slap" if that was the case and he would check/measure for it. He thought someone may have dropped in an engine at some point, but: The rod bearings dated 8 72 and the mains had 10 2, whatever that means. Anyone have any experience, thoughts, or comments? |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: September-04-2012 at 12:04pm
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Paul,you have to go by what pistons you use. 0 offset they can go in either way,offset pistons then they would need to be reversed. The reason IMO the Mercruiser guy thinks they need to be reversed is that they are usually Chevys.Ford small blocks are 0 offset. Might be wise to check with piston manufacturer. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: September-05-2012 at 10:50am
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Gary is spot on. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: 73SN
Date Posted: September-25-2012 at 4:58pm
| Cracked block... looking for a replacement. |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: September-25-2012 at 5:54pm
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Unfortunately that was to be expected with the water in the oil, then the water causes the spun bearing. You are gonna need a block that has the same rear seal configuration that you have. If it is one piece then get a one piece, two, get a two. Other than that you simply need a 351w block.. you could get one from a junk yard and have it machined or buy one that has already been recovered and machined. Good luck! ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: 73SN
Date Posted: September-25-2012 at 7:17pm
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I'm looking locally for a block now. It is a two piece rear seal. was looking forward to an engine build but may just buy a short block and be done with it, especially if I cant find a block. I spoke with Mabbco folks in TX, $795 +shpng for reverse rotation short block using my cam (reground). still looking around tho. |
Posted By: 73SN
Date Posted: December-19-2012 at 3:48am
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quick question: I'm doing my assembly, what's the best sealer to use on the rear main seal cap? The book says silicone but I'm wondering if Permatex 2B non-hardening or something else would be ok. Also, may not be pertinent but I had the crank machined to take a one-piece rear main seal. |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: December-19-2012 at 6:27am
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If you're asking about the rear main cap, it gets an anaerobic sealant. It's important to get the right stuff; Loctite calls it gasket maker 518. It's also important to put it only where it's supposed to go. My PCM manual has a shaded drawing that helps. If we're talking about the same thing, I would question the quality of that book. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: December-19-2012 at 6:33am
How is it coming along? Pics? Raw knuckles?  ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: December-19-2012 at 10:50am
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Greg - did you pull the short straw on graveyard guard duty? ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: December-19-2012 at 11:02am
Honored to serve.  He really didn't want silicone in that spot; still assuming we are talking about the same spot. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: 73SN
Date Posted: December-19-2012 at 12:13pm
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yep, rear main cap. The book (HPBooks) is pretty good but there have been a few things that I've questioned in it, like:"Seal the Rear-Main Cap- ..Run a small bead of silicone sealer-about 1/16 of an inch wide-in the corners of the cylinder blocks rear-main-bearing register..." It also had some strange comments about the distributor & the firing order. The Permatex 2B non-hardening is labeled "Form*A Gasket Sealant". not sure if its anaerobic or not. I'll run by NAPA later and see what they've got. All-in-all the build going OK. I've had to return the rings because the gaps were too big. The cost has been a bit more than I expected but I'm trying to add reliability with ARP rod bolts and oil pump shaft, and that type of thing. I've had to do a good bit of reading since its my first one. I haven't gotten deep into it yet but I gotta tell you guys I appreciate y'all being here. I'll post some pics to photo bucket and post a link. |
Posted By: BuffaloBFN
Date Posted: December-19-2012 at 1:21pm
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I use that permatex aviation form a seal for lots of things, but not that spot. If you have to pull it all apart(beacuse the rear main is leaking) just to put the right stuff in there, you'll invent dirty words. ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2331&sort=&pagenum=12&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990" rel="nofollow - 1988 BFN-sold "It's a Livin' Thing...What a Terrible Thing to Lose" ELO |
Posted By: 73SN
Date Posted: December-19-2012 at 2:47pm
| %20" rel="nofollow - http://s1211.beta.photobucket.com/user/house777/story/6721?evt=email_share |
Posted By: 73SN
Date Posted: December-19-2012 at 4:06pm
I guess the NoFollow keeps the link from working. just copy and paste for pics. 
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Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: December-19-2012 at 4:23pm
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It's all RTV these days kids - OEMs have gone to using it extensively on new engines, transmission cases, etc. Including in the exact spot you are talking about. A good RTV between two surfaces provides a nice seal, yes it doesnt stick to the outside of stuff well, and no you dont want to fill a big gap with it but it would work just fine here. As would the proper permatex product or anerobic sealant. Not using too much or too little here is the real trick. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: December-19-2012 at 5:05pm
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http://s1211.beta.photobucket.com/user/house777/story/6721?evt=email_share" rel="nofollow - Link No you just didn't do it right but here you go--- ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: 73SN
Date Posted: December-19-2012 at 6:16pm
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Thanks Gary. I know html pretty well but haven't tried to figure out the whole links-in-a-forum thing yet... I got the Anaerobic Permatex sealer at the fourth place I went to. $15 for a 16th of an inch bead in two small areas? I guess its what I'll use on the gaskets too.  Thanks guys! I'm back at it. |
Posted By: 73SN
Date Posted: January-26-2013 at 5:41pm
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Does anyone know where to get the exhaust gaskets for the 4-bolt round-type exhaust manifold? All I see on-line are the rectangular type. I can make them but I'm running short on time and would rather buy them if they're available. The kit came with manifold-to-head gasket but I need the ones for the rear portion (riser?)and its caps and inlets, and thermostat manifold. (sorry, not sure what all the pieces are called). |
Posted By: 73SN
Date Posted: January-26-2013 at 6:20pm
This type: 
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Posted By: 73SN
Date Posted: January-26-2013 at 7:06pm
its caps and inlets, and thermostat manifold:
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Posted By: 62 wood
Date Posted: January-26-2013 at 8:17pm
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Cant help you with info on where to buy the gaskets, but you can make them pretty easy. NAPA (and pretty much any auto store)has sheets of gasket material. Cut a piece a little larger than the part, then take a small ball peen hammer and gently tap around the perimeter and the holes edge. The hammer will "cut" the gasket to shape. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1117&sort=&pagenum=6" rel="nofollow - 64 American Skier 62 Classic.. 73 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: 73SN
Date Posted: January-26-2013 at 8:44pm
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I know what you mean with the hammer method. I used a rubber mallet on the tape before I painted the block and the heads. What about the gasket material? the caps and inlets should be fine but the big pieces may need heat resistance. I'd hate to have leaks/problems in this area. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: January-26-2013 at 9:54pm
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Even an "all purpose" gasket made from aramid fiber and buna-N rubber has a high temp range of 400 degrees. Even the cheap water resistant vegetable fiber gasket materials have a high limit of 250 degrees. Hopefully that rebuild project won't run that hot!! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 73SN
Date Posted: January-27-2013 at 11:47am
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Ok, I got some material. Should all four holes let water flow? I've read a few threads where the bottom hole is covered on the new ones. I don't remember it being covered. I think I would've noticed anyway. |
Posted By: dochockey
Date Posted: March-09-2013 at 12:53pm
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Paul how s the engine project? Did you figure out all your gaskets? Where did you get your mirror ? Kirk ------------- 1989 Teal Ski Nautique 1967 Mustang Harris Float Sunfish |