Repaint the black dash on 88 BFN
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Boat Maintenance
Forum Discription: Discuss maintenance of your Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28498
Printed Date: November-18-2024 at 1:20pm
Topic: Repaint the black dash on 88 BFN
Posted By: tbeard
Subject: Repaint the black dash on 88 BFN
Date Posted: December-06-2012 at 2:40am
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My dash has many 1/2 inch long cracks in front of the mirror. The same area has some serious fading where the sun cooked it. I removed the seats, glovebox, mirror, cup holders, dash pod and windshield. (the boat looks funny with all that removed) Started DA with 180 and was not getting down to the glass fast enough and switched to 120...still slow sanding but I hate to go much more agressive. (suggestions!) I have experience spraying epoxy primar and PPG single stage and base coat/clear coat paint. Here is what I am thinking....Finish sanding down to glass to remove 100% of the crackes and sand the rest of the black to prep for the primar. Primar the complete dash and sand to finish. Option 1) Spray with black paint. Option 2) Spray with black Gel Coat. I am resistant to use Gel Coat due to no experience with it and do not have a gun to shoot it. Also I know it is a high build and will leave an edge where it meets the white Gel coat on the sides. Any recommendations and guidance is greatly appreciated. ------------- Thanks.......Tom |
Replies:
Posted By: mark c
Date Posted: December-06-2012 at 9:55am
| I'm in the same boat (so to speak), with my 87 BFN. My dash is stripped down to the same point, but it looks like someone somewhere in the past may have sprayed a clear coat on the dash, as it has tons of crackes in the top coat, but it doesn't appear to extend down into the gelcoat itself. I'm thinking of just sanding it smooth, filling all the extra screw holes and shooting a satin black (is that the right amount of gloss?)single stage paint on it out to the original lines of black. I'm also thiking that I'm goint to wrap it (the whole dash area and the pod, or possibly just the pod itself)with a black 3D carbon Fiber wrap after its been painted. |
Posted By: 65 'cuda
Date Posted: December-06-2012 at 10:02am
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This is my experience only, I painted the top deck and motorbox of my '65. I ground out nearly all of the cracks in the gel and filled, then sanded, primed, and painted. I did not grind out the cracks along the narrow parts of the gunnel because it was faster/easier to simply sand all the gel off, I think that was a mistake. The cracks in the gel propagate(sp?) down into the fiberglass a little bit, by grinding the cracks out, you remove the bottom of the crack, and it won't telegraph through later. If the gel is sound, simply scuff and sand for paint or new gel. The cracks around the mirror mount can be ground and filled. Re drill the mirror mount holes, making sure they are larger than the screws, and chamfer the top edge of the hole with a countersink, this will help prevent the crack from comong back. ------------- Gary http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=941" rel="nofollow - 1965 Barracuda SS |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: December-06-2012 at 11:40am
Suggestion: STOP!!!!! The black is not paint, its gel. Thats why youre having a tough time getting through it. Wetsanding and buffing will restore the color and shine. If the cracks are not huge, they will become nearly invisible once the dash has been buffed out. If they still bother you, a proper gel repair in that area can be done. A previous owner painted over the black gel dash on our '79, and I really wish he hadnt. ------------- |
tbeard wrote:Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: December-06-2012 at 12:10pm
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Tom here is your perfect chance to learn gelcoat. It will be entirely up to you and since you have painted before it is much the same.You will have to check out your options- gel about 85 a quart,a gun will run you 100-125,some Duratec clear to thin the gel about 30 a quart. Then your usual acetone,sandpaper etc. It will be more work but the satisfaction in the end result will more than offset it. And to me it would depend if you plan on keeping the boat or selling it. I don't know if you saw my thread about my project this summer but I did it with out having any gel spraying experence.The most difficult thing I have found with gel is color matching,a problem you would not have. If you want pm me and I can tell you what I learned. Here are some pictures in case you missed them- before-  after-  hole in gunnel where PO mounted control-  finished-  ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: tbeard
Date Posted: December-06-2012 at 7:17pm
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1. Contacted Fiberglas supply and their price is under $80.00 for 1 Qt Black Gel Coat (no wax), 1 Qt duratec Gloss and 2 oz catalist 2. Found a Paint gun on ebay for $35.00 with a 2.5 mm nozzle designed for industrial paint and thick primar. If this is correct I can Gel Coat the dash for about the same price as paint. ------------- Thanks.......Tom |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: December-06-2012 at 7:58pm
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Have you destroyed the dash beyond all repair at this point? It shouldnt needed to be reshot entirely. If thats the case and you do need to re-gel, then talk to US Composites. Their pricing would be less than half that for a quart of gel, hardener, pigment, etc. Make sure you add wax to your final coat so it fully cures. Dont forget that if regelling, you'll need to fix the cracks in the glass first, otherwise they will telegraph back through the new finish. ------------- |
Posted By: tbeard
Date Posted: December-06-2012 at 8:21pm
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No I only sanded down the flat surface in front of the mirror. My understanding for the cracks is to remove them completly down to the glass to assure they do not telegraph back up. ------------- Thanks.......Tom |
Posted By: Mojo
Date Posted: December-06-2012 at 8:21pm
I'd just put a towel over it, way to much to make a dash repair just to have it happen again next summer in a different spot...........  ------------- 05' SV211 TE 73' Martinique had:96' SNOB had:76' Nautique had 77 Tique |
Posted By: tbeard
Date Posted: December-14-2012 at 12:21am
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Started back on the dash and have a question about the repair. With the existing cracks I plan to heat the surface with a hair dryer. Mix up epoxy with 20% reducer and squegie over the area where the cracks appeared and let it fill all the voids. Then sand the surface to prep for gel. Will the new gel bond to this area where the epoxy work has taken place OR do I need to spray a primar down? ------------- Thanks.......Tom |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: December-18-2012 at 9:44am
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Tom, The gel which is a polyester will not stick to the epoxy. I'd still use the epoxy for the crack repairs but you will need to lay down a coat of polyvinyl before the gel. It will stick to the epoxy and the gel will stick to it. I'd also recommend routing out the cracks and not relying on getting reduced epoxy into the existing. Most likely the cracks are dirty/contaminated and you want to get to fresh glass. A small "pine tree" burr on the Dremel works great. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: tbeard
Date Posted: December-18-2012 at 3:31pm
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Thanks Pete, Where can I buy the polyvinyl primer? I have searched jamestown and the web and all I get it tape of sheetrock supplies. Thx ------------- Thanks.......Tom |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: December-18-2012 at 4:20pm
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Tom,I wonder if the first thing on http://www.shopmaninc.com/polyprod.html" rel="nofollow - this link is what your looking for. Found it on US Composits site ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: December-18-2012 at 5:14pm
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If so, that would be news to me, Gary... Ive been told to use vinylester as a conversion coat between epoxy and poly (gel), and it has worked fine. Polyvinyl may work as well, but USC doesnt sell one. ------------- |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: December-18-2012 at 6:17pm
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You shouldnt do the repairs with epoxy in my humble opinion it would be a waste of time and money. Repair using polyester resin and glass if needed, , fill using evercoat polyester glazing putty, spray the duratek primer, block sand, spray more duratec primer, block sand, when it looks good spray the gel. The benefits of epoxy are just not worth the hassle of the conversion coat here IMHO. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: December-18-2012 at 6:29pm
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I agree with Joe if that poly glazing putty is good to work with (like bondo?)... though, will it provide the strength needed to prevent the cracks from coming back? If not, that might justify the use of epoxy and its extra conversion coat. I wouldnt suggest thickening poly or vinyl yourself though... Ive only tried it once or twice and it didnt work out well. Not sure if theres a learning curve or if I was just unlucky... but Ive thickened epoxy myself a number of times and always found it very easy to work with. Poly in general is a pain... its stinks, is very finicky on catylist, requires wax to set up, blah, blah, blah. ------------- |
Posted By: tbeard
Date Posted: December-18-2012 at 6:53pm
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I hate to say this but I am starting to get confused with all the suggestions. My concern is I purchase the wrong material and end up with a mess on the dash:) Mabey I could do a test off to the side on some wood/plastic or something. I have some left over medium epoxy and hardner. I also have some Fairing compound which worked for filling and leveling the glass work I did and it sanded out very nice. Can I spray Gel over this mixture of epoxy and fairing compound? ------------- Thanks.......Tom |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: December-18-2012 at 6:56pm
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You should not put the gel (or fairing compound or the polyester primers referenced above) over epoxy as a general rule. Glazing compound is just that smoothing only, to remove waviness in sanding. Repairs have to be done with poly resin and glass, after that upto dime thickness dips you go with featherite or duraglas body filler – if you use the duraglas it is hard to get smooth without glazing compound.. if you do really good work and everything is close to flush featherite alone may get it done. I sand to grind areas of cracking down enough to get overlapping layers of cloth built up using poly resin.. but a lone crack I might be tempted to grind out fill with duraglas and then move on with glazing and primer. The thing I don’t like about epoxy and a barrier coat here, besides all the extra work and materials to order is that I typically sand through a few levels here and there in the fairing process for something as high visibility as the dash.. and if you sand through the barrier into the epoxy in one spot you would be pissed! ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: December-18-2012 at 11:06pm
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When I repaired the hole the control left in my gunnel I was concerned about using epoxy too. I didn't want to be buying all sorts of things for a relatively small repair. I ended up using polyester for the job. When I was done I ground down the back side of the repair and overlayed epoxy and mat in an area larger than the original hole. I know this has nothing to do with Tom's problem,but it was a way to work around the problem. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: tbeard
Date Posted: December-20-2012 at 1:41pm
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Just FYI for folks that need to do future repairs like this I contacted US Composits and talked to Steve. He told me do NOT use epoxy for that repair. Steve recomended 700 Vinyl Ester Resin. I will post the results of the dash restoration when complete. Thanks to all for the help. ------------- Thanks.......Tom |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: December-20-2012 at 1:47pm
USComposites has made several recommendations that I question. They would not condone putting gelcoat (or any poly) over epoxy in any way, shape or form- regardless of conversion coat or primer. Kinda makes you wonder how CC has been able to build boats that way since 1993.  Ive had no problems laying up their gelcoat over their epoxy, using their vinylester as a conversion coat. I would recommend you take their tech support with a grain of salt, as I do. Ive gotten better tech support from some of the more intelligent and experienced members of this forum. ------------- |