Cutlass Bearing Replacement
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Boat Maintenance
Forum Discription: Discuss maintenance of your Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28649
Printed Date: November-18-2024 at 11:44am
Topic: Cutlass Bearing Replacement
Posted By: tbeard
Subject: Cutlass Bearing Replacement
Date Posted: January-04-2013 at 3:48am
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We are at the point of assembly on the BFN. With the motor/trans out and prop removed I have some shaft movement in the cutlass bearing. I will try and mount a indicator on it tomorrow to see how much. At this point my gut tells me to replace the bearing prior to re-assembly and alignment. Any recomendations on where to buy this bearing? Can I inspect for a bent shaft with a bad cutlass bearing or slop in the system? Thanks.... ------------- Thanks.......Tom |
Replies:
Posted By: tbeard
Date Posted: January-04-2013 at 4:30am
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With further research this is what I found from a old Pete post. "You will want the 1" ID by 1&1/4" OD. Length if you want to go all the way is 6" but, I've never seen a need for it to be that long. It's my opinion that 4" works just fine." This bearing from Deep Blue is 6 inches long. Is there a concern with assembly or something with this 6 inch bearing? http://www.deepblueyachtsupply.com/marine-bearings/naval-brass-inch-cutless-bearings ------------- Thanks.......Tom |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: January-04-2013 at 9:12am
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Tom, Deep Blue has the 4" long cutlass. It is what I would install. Any longer and it just produces slightly more drag on the shaft. Install the cutlass all the way aft in the strut so it can take care of the radial loading of the prop as it's designed to do. http://www.deepblueyachtsupply.com/marine-bearings/naval-brass-inch-cutless-bearings" rel="nofollow - BTW, for the convenience of all, here's a proper link. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: January-04-2013 at 11:53am
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It would also be fine to order a set of 2 of the smaller bushings and install one at each end of the strut body. For $60, I would personally opt for the OJ XPC bushings instead of the brass/rubber. http://www.skidim.com/prodinfo.asp?number=OJ2032B" rel="nofollow - OJ XPC bushings from SkiDIM ------------- |
Posted By: Waternut
Date Posted: January-04-2013 at 12:41pm
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I'm gonna thread jack slightly... My strut has 2 - 2" bearings in it and I'm about to replace them. Obviously the shaft is worn in those two locations and not in the middle. Would there be an advantage or disadvantage to installing a 4" bearing instead of 2 - 2" bearings? ------------- |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: January-04-2013 at 1:21pm
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[QUOTE=TRBenj] . For $60, I would personally opt for the OJ XPC bushings instead of the brass/rubber. QUOTE] What is the difference Tim? And by the description is that each? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: January-04-2013 at 1:34pm
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No, thats for a pair Gary. Supposedly longer life out of them vs. rubber, but time will tell on that- Joe is running them. The part that impressed me the most was the low resistance. Easily 1-finger spin-able, and the prop would do a few revolutions before coming to a stop. Zero play/slop too. Pretty impressive. Would have used them on the BFN if we didnt end up ordering a new strut for it (which came loaded with new rubber bushings). Ive got a pair of the XPC's on my desk just waiting to in something... ------------- |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: January-04-2013 at 2:07pm
| You can actually spin the prop with one finger and it will do a few revolutions? |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: January-04-2013 at 2:08pm
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Yup! Poke your head under Joe's boat next time you see it. ------------- |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: January-04-2013 at 2:19pm
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And thats the same boat I haven't realigned in the last three engines, 300+ hours, and few hundred power turns. It takes a pretty firm one finger push though, you still are dragging some weight and oil but they run pretty smooth. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: tbeard
Date Posted: January-05-2013 at 3:20am
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Ordered a 4 inch bearing and new packing material today. Disassembled the packing nuts, rubber hose and pulled the shaft out of the hull. Have been searching the site for detailed step by step instal/setup for the cutlass bearing removal/instalation and shaft alignment prior to mounting to the trans coupler. After reviewing the steps outlined in Pete's video....I am not to that point yet (although his video is excellent). Can someone provide a previous post or info that will educate me? Thank you.....Tom ------------- Thanks.......Tom |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: January-05-2013 at 10:15am
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Tom, The common method of cutlass removal is to Sawsall the cutlass the length of the bore being careful not to cut into the strut. Then, you can use a punch to curl it in on itself. It will then be loose so it will come out. The new cutlass install is easy with a section of threaded rod long enough to go through the bores of the strut and the cutlass. With some large washers (and nuts) on each end, just crank the nuts and it will pull right into the strut. Just be careful on getting the cutlass started straight. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: tbeard
Date Posted: January-05-2013 at 2:40pm
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Excellent....Thx Pete, Will remove the bearing today. Is the bearing self centering? What function do the set screws serve other that keeping the bearing from working itself out of the strut? Do the set screws help align the bearing in any way? ------------- Thanks.......Tom |
Posted By: tbeard
Date Posted: January-06-2013 at 3:37am
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The bearing is out:) I used a hack saw blade due to the rudder being in the way of the Sawsall. The old one is 6 inches long and there are 2 set screws that snug it in place. With my 4 inch bearing I can only utilize one set screw! Is that acceptable? ------------- Thanks.......Tom |
Posted By: gR@HaM
Date Posted: January-06-2013 at 7:13am
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I noticed that mine doesn't have screws in either of the holes! ------------- '82 Ski Tique |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: January-06-2013 at 8:44am
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The set screws are just added for some extra assistance to hold the cutlass in place. They do not align it in any way, The bore of the strut to the OD of the cutlass does that. Sometimes it's a pretty close fit. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: tbeard
Date Posted: January-08-2013 at 2:08am
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With the new packing process this is what I found on a old thread. Is this the same for the PCM 454? I assume it is but want to check. My old packing had 2 pieces wrapped and staggered 180 degrees apart. The packing rope was under $ 5.00 I hope I purchased the correct packing from Deep Blue. "Joe, wrap the flax rope around the drive shaft firmly and so that the rope overlaps itself (in a spiral fashion but touching). Then (with a very sharp blade) cut the rope where it overlaps so that you have both ends freshly cut. You will need at least 2 pieces but maybe 3 or more like this. Then coax these pieces into the packing gland. Stagger the gaps of each piece so they don't line up. Then take a socket (wrench) and roll it inside the gland to coax it into place so the the shaft will go through. Fresh packing will not need to be tightened more than hand tight at first, but check your leakage in the water with the tranny in gear and running. About 1 drip every 15-20 seconds is good." ------------- Thanks.......Tom |
Posted By: tbeard
Date Posted: January-11-2013 at 3:17am
Installed the cutlass bearing tonight and the packing with the shaft. Threaded rod worked great for pressing in the bearing. I lightly sanded off any burrs on the edge of the bore/strut. Cleaned the bore good with thinner and towels. She pressed right in.  ------------- Thanks.......Tom |
Posted By: KRoundy
Date Posted: January-11-2013 at 3:52pm
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Did you put set screws in? Take any photos along the way? ------------- Previous: 1993 Electric Blue/Charcoal Ski Nautique Current: 2016 Ski Nautique 200 Open Bow |
Posted By: tbeard
Date Posted: January-12-2013 at 5:23pm
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Set screw yes....Only one is needed due to the new bearing in only 4 inches long and does not reach the second screw hole. No pics sorry. ------------- Thanks.......Tom |
Posted By: tbeard
Date Posted: January-25-2013 at 3:28pm
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For the packing material installation I followed the steps outlined on this site. My thought for tightning down the nut is...snugged it up aginst the packing and then 1/3 turn. Then put boat in water and leave it on the trailer and finish adjusting the nut there until I get the 3 drops per minute. Or is there something different I should do? ------------- Thanks.......Tom |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: January-25-2013 at 9:58pm
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Tom, Don't tighten the gland too much. I'd suggest hand tight, get it in the water, get some forward and reverse shaft spins on it and then go from there. If over tightened, sometimes the packing will stay tight. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: tbeard
Date Posted: January-26-2013 at 3:55pm
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Ok Thanks Pete.... ------------- Thanks.......Tom |
Posted By: tbeard
Date Posted: March-19-2013 at 8:11pm
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Installed a new cutlass bearing and new packing. Prior to running the boat on Sunday I noticed that the shaft/prop was not as easy to turn as I would like....kinda stiff. I thought it may just need to run a bit in the lake. We ran it and I adjusted the nut for 5 - 10 drops of water per minute. Note: The drops of water were HOT? After putting the boat back on the trailer I turned the prop and it is still stiff to turn. Not what I would expect. I watched Pete's video again and think I need to walk back through the process of alignment. Any additional suggestions? ------------- Thanks.......Tom |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: March-19-2013 at 8:21pm
| Did you line it up after replacing the cutlass and packing? Spray some water on the shaft and trying spinning it. It should spin pretty easily. |
Posted By: tbeard
Date Posted: March-19-2013 at 8:34pm
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The alignment was done after I installed the cutlas and packing. I replaced them while the engine was out and I could pull the shaft out of the boat without removing the coupling. So the process was...replace bearing and packing, install shaft/coupling in strut, install engine, align the two couplings within the .003 requirement, install prop. Could I have over tightened the packing? Note: I did have to back it off slightly to get the water to start to drip inside the boat. ------------- Thanks.......Tom |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: March-19-2013 at 8:44pm
| Having the packing nut too tight would cause the shaft to turn stiff. Loosen the packing nut and see what happens. The water shouldn't be hot. |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: March-19-2013 at 8:45pm
Im not sure that an overtightened packing would cause the shaft to be hard to turn to the extent youre describing. It should still turn pretty easily when using the diameter of the prop as leverage. Tell us more about how you did the part in bold (above). It is not as simple as making sure the 2 coupling faces line up square... that is the second (and time consuming) part. First, you must find where the shaft spins freely in the strut, and align the powertrain to that point. If you aligned the powertrain to the shaft when it was sitting in any other position (it will sag under its own weight or can be forced up/down or side/side since there is some "squish" in the rubber strut bushing) then the powertrain was not properly aligned to the strut. ------------- |
tbeard wrote:Posted By: tbeard
Date Posted: March-19-2013 at 8:53pm
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After the cutlass and packing was installed there was zero play in the shaft in a un bolted state. At that point I slid the shaft/coupling up to the trans coupling and started adjusting the engine front and rear mounts until I met the .003 difference side to side and top to bottom. This took a couple of hours to adjust the engine until I had the gap correct. ------------- Thanks.......Tom |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: March-19-2013 at 8:59pm
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Even though the log hose is short on the BFN, it will still deflect under the weight of the shaft. Unfortunately, all the precision in the world when mating those coupler faces together doesnt mean a thing if the shaft is in the wrong position to begin with. I would recommend trying again. This time, loosen the packing gland all the way so you can more easily tell where the shaft spins freely in the strut. Once you find that point, then support the shaft in that position so it doesnt move. Then proceed with the .003" coupler face alignment process. ------------- |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: March-19-2013 at 9:01pm
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Alignment starts at the strut. As Tim mentioned, check the shaft alignment to the log first. The packing gland was too tight. It should not run hot. Hopefully the shaft isn't scored. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: tbeard
Date Posted: March-19-2013 at 9:36pm
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Thanks.... For the alignment I will start from the begining as the video shows: loosen the flange bolts, loosen the gland, check shaft run out at the log and then on the taper, find where the shaft sweet spot is and secure the shaft in that position, align motor/trans to the fixed position of the shaft/coupling.....Think I got it:) Thanks everyone. ------------- Thanks.......Tom |
Posted By: GlassSeeker
Date Posted: March-19-2013 at 9:40pm
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is there any trick/method to securing the shaft in the position so it can't move? or how do you do that? ------------- This is the life |
Posted By: tbeard
Date Posted: March-19-2013 at 9:48pm
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I was told to use a block of wood with a "V" notch cut in it for the shaft to rest in. And slide it under the shaft until it is in the position you want. That is a pretty good idea and actually is the way "old machinist" used to check run out of round parts with "V" blocks. I will set it up and take some pics and post them. ------------- Thanks.......Tom |
Posted By: lakedog55
Date Posted: March-20-2013 at 12:36am
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I used a strap from one of the gunnelrails to the other. It made a v and supported the shaft. ------------- Lakedog55 |
Posted By: tbeard
Date Posted: March-20-2013 at 1:29am
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Mike that is a good idea also! So I did not support that shaft at all. I just slid it up to the trans coupling and adjusted the motor to align with it. I hope that is my problem. Going over to the shop tomorrow to get started. ------------- Thanks.......Tom |
Posted By: gR@HaM
Date Posted: March-20-2013 at 8:22am
Plenty of photos please i'm looking to do mine soon once I've got myself a new shaft  ------------- '82 Ski Tique |
Posted By: Waternut
Date Posted: March-20-2013 at 2:36pm
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I used the heat/freeze method for my cutlass bearing. I don't know if this is an approved method or not but it was definitely the easiest thing I've done on this install so far and certainly seems nicer than pressing the bearings in place. I had two 2" bearings. I put the bearings in the freezer for about an hour and heated the strut with a propane torch. Then I ran inside, grabbed one bearing, and could slip it in by hand about an inch before the heat started the expand it. Then I lightly tapped the last inch with a rubber mallet. ------------- |
Posted By: tbeard
Date Posted: March-23-2013 at 2:49am
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Ok I wanted to report back on the prop/shaft alignment progress. Thanks to Pete and Tim I now have enough knowledge to align this boat....I think. 1.) First I used a dial indicator and checked the shaft for bend. Shaft was within the .003 requirements. The shaft was not straight with the strut and the hull Log. I removed the Packing assembly and rubber hose off the log and the strut. I cleaned all the old adhesive and started shimming with washers until I had a good alignment through the Log and had the sweet spot (where the shaft spins with the least resistance). Then I used a flash light and looked for clearance between the hull and shaft from under the boat. 2.) Align drive train to shaft coupling within .003 3.) Assemble packing parts to Log. 4.) Use dial indicator and run out shaft at hull/Log and again on prop side of rudder. .003 max allowed. The shaft spins much easier and there is no interference with the hull. Thanks to all for the support ------------- Thanks.......Tom |
Posted By: tbeard
Date Posted: March-23-2013 at 3:30am
  ------------- Thanks.......Tom |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: March-23-2013 at 9:42am
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Tom, It sure sounds and looks like you have the idea except for checking the shaft straightness aft of the strut. You want to pull the prop and locate the dial indicator on the aft end of the taper. Where you have the indicator located will typically not pick up a bend. A shaft bend aft is typical from a prop hit and usually is around the aft end of the strut. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: tbeard
Date Posted: March-23-2013 at 2:52pm
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Thanks Pete, Good idea. Will do this afternoon. The boat had some minor low to mid range vibration prior to the restration. So this inspection will provide the last piece of info to determine if the issue has been addressed. If it is straight then the whole alignment has to be within factory spec. - New cuttlass bearing - Restored prop - Straightened strut - Align power train/shaft within .002 - Clearance through hull and Log. ------------- Thanks.......Tom |
Posted By: tbeard
Date Posted: March-24-2013 at 2:00pm
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Contacted the indicator on the taper and ran out the shaft. .002 TIR at that point. So the shaft has a total of .0025 runout from the hull back to the end of the taper. Excellent Ran the boat for 3 hours last night and that coupling spins in a very smooth and silent mode....very cool. Normal oil pressure, no leaks and normal water temp. Will continue adjust the packing gland. Truley an exercise that is critical to the operation of the boat. Thanks We are ready to start skiing   ------------- Thanks.......Tom |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: March-24-2013 at 2:18pm
 ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: tbeard
Date Posted: March-24-2013 at 2:39pm
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Pete and Tim, Thanks for the education. ------------- Thanks.......Tom |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: March-24-2013 at 3:08pm
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Tom, Thanks for the pictures. It will fill in the gaps of the alignment 101 thread for some since, when filmed, I didn't have a dial indicator. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |