Obamas Gun Controle Proposal?
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Printed Date: January-14-2025 at 4:56am
Topic: Obamas Gun Controle Proposal?
Posted By: Nautiquehunter
Subject: Obamas Gun Controle Proposal?
Date Posted: January-19-2013 at 12:43pm
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I haven't heard anything about the content of the new gun control rules. I found them on the web. Does it look like any of the new regulations will do anything to prevent the so called acts of gun violence? Looks to me like another waste of time and money that doesn't even address the real problem. Published: January 16, 2013 What’s in Obama’s Gun Control Proposal The initiative to reduce gun violence announced by President Obama on Wednesday includes both legislative proposals that would need to be acted on by Congress and executive actions he can do on his own. Many of the executive actions involve the president directing agencies to do a better job of sharing information. Proposed Congressional Actions •Requiring criminal background checks for all gun sales, including those by private sellers that currently are exempt. •Reinstating and strengthening the ban on assault weapons that was in place from 1994 to 2004. •Limiting ammunition magazines to 10 rounds. •Banning the possession of armor-piercing bullets by anyone other than members of the military and law enforcement. •Increasing criminal penalties for "straw purchasers," people who pass the required background check to buy a gun on behalf of someone else. •Acting on a $4 billion administration proposal to help keep 15,000 police officers on the street. •Confirming President Obama's nominee for director of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. •Eliminating a restriction that requires the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives to allow the importation of weapons that are more than 50 years old. •Financing programs to train more police officers, first responders and school officials on how to respond to active armed attacks. •Provide additional $20 million to help expand the a system that tracks violent deaths across the nation from 18 states to 50 states. •Providing $30 million in grants to states to help schools develop emergency response plans. •Providing financing to expand mental health programs for young people. Executive actions •Issuing a presidential memorandum to require federal agencies to make relevant data available to the federal background check system. •Addressing unnecessary legal barriers, particularly relating to the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, that may prevent states from making information available to the background check system. •Improving incentives for states to share information with the background check system. •Directing the attorney general to review categories of individuals prohibited from having a gun to make sure dangerous people are not slipping through the cracks. •Proposing a rule making to give law enforcement authorities the ability to run a full background check on an individual before returning a seized gun. •Publishing a letter from the A.T.F. to federally licensed gun dealers providing guidance on how to run background checks for private sellers. •Starting a national safe and responsible gun ownership campaign. •Reviewing safety standards for gun locks and gun safes (Consumer Product Safety Commission). •Issuing a presidential memorandum to require federal law enforcement to trace guns recovered in criminal investigations. •Releasing a report analyzing information on lost and stolen guns and making it widely available to law enforcement authorities. •Nominating an A.T.F. director. •Providing law enforcement authorities, first responders and school officials with proper training for armed attacks situations. •Maximizing enforcement efforts to prevent gun violence and prosecute gun crime. •Issuing a presidential memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to research gun violence. •Directing the attorney general to issue a report on the availability and most effective use of new gun safety technologies and challenging the private sector to develop innovative technologies. •Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes. •Releasing a letter to health care providers clarifying that no federal law prohibits them from reporting threats of violence to law enforcement authorities. •Providing incentives for schools to hire school resource officers. •Developing model emergency response plans for schools, houses of worship and institutions of higher education. •Releasing a letter to state health officials clarifying the scope of mental health services that Medicaid plans must cover. •Finalizing regulations clarifying essential health benefits and parity requirements within insurance exchanges. •Committing to finalizing mental health parity regulations. •Starting a national dialogue on mental health led by Kathleen Sebelius, the secretary of health and human services, and Arne Duncan, the secretary of education. |
Replies:
Posted By: SN206
Date Posted: January-19-2013 at 2:15pm
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Perhaps the next nut case will spend some people to death so we can push our political agenda. ------------- ...those who have fallen and those who will. |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: January-19-2013 at 7:16pm
 ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: peter1234
Date Posted: January-19-2013 at 7:51pm
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do you guys see this proposal as a line by line thing to be approved or not or do you think its to be accepted or discarded as a whole in his mind ------------- former skylark owner now a formula but I cant let this place go |
Posted By: skicat2001
Date Posted: January-19-2013 at 8:06pm
Peter, I personally dont think it will pass.There are some things the House likes and most they dont. For example,a doctor telling about invading a person's privacey,"do you have any guns in your house"!! Or Mike Levin said with having a patient and kills someone but did not report it,now through the Affordable Care Act can be sued or could bring serious ligations against them.Doctors are even getting attacked on this. ------------- 1985 CC 2001-SOLD Lee Michael Johnson |
peter1234 wrote:Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: January-20-2013 at 12:04am
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Peter, all of Dave's above 23Items are to be done by executive order. Obama believes he can make those changes without any legislative approval. Pretty much a done deal. Obama also hopes the house and senate will go further. ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: malibud
Date Posted: January-20-2013 at 12:59am
| ok i own guns and always have. i also work in a school. although it is too late , there is no reason for 50round clips and / or miltary weapons. our murder rate in the US is too high. the problem is now there is more guns than people. i am more worried about getting shot than having my gun taken away. |
Posted By: SN206
Date Posted: January-20-2013 at 2:56am
Not sure what scares me most about that statement.  ------------- ...those who have fallen and those who will. |
Posted By: forvicjr
Date Posted: January-20-2013 at 5:04am
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So if guns ar tha problum then I giuss mi kee bord is @ falt fur mi mess spellun!! Guns don't kill people, people kill people, pure and simple. If criminals knew that if caught and found guilty of murder, the consequence would be swift death, I'd bet the murder rate would drop in the US. That's what the problem is, these crazy people know they will get life or four. How do you sentence a man to four life terms, pointless. If his actions are that bad to receive that kind of time, out the court house he needs (or she) to go and straight to the firing squad. Dead man walking. And to add this opinion is for the cases that are black and white guilty with witnesses or some other means, basically guilty without a doubt. For every action there's a reaction except for crime in this country. Here you act criminally with little to no reaction. Its crazy that you can get more time for tax evasion than you would armed robbery. |
Posted By: Nautiquehunter
Date Posted: January-20-2013 at 11:31am
Lets look at some facts. In 2009 there were 100 million rifles in the country[that includes so called assault rifles] . There were 13636 murders, 9146 by gun. 348 were done by rifle that also includes assault rifles. That's a little less than 4%. The new regulations are focused on assault rifles and high capacity magazines. So even if they ban all rifles it still wont address the real problem. The government isn't good at fixing problems however they are great at making them. |
Posted By: peter1234
Date Posted: January-20-2013 at 11:53am
that might just be in the top ten of everything i have heard . It almost cant be responded to ------------- former skylark owner now a formula but I cant let this place go |
Posted By: peter1234
Date Posted: January-20-2013 at 11:58am
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I love the gun buy back program pictures local law enforcement have been running. I see some H&R break open single shots , model 94 lever actions , but most of all antique single shot 22s .Even if it stops just one mass squirrel killing I will sleep better . ------------- former skylark owner now a formula but I cant let this place go |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: January-20-2013 at 12:07pm
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I believe anything such as broadening of background checks, an asault weapon ban or magazine limits have to go through congress and cannot be implemented by executive order. On gun turn in programs, unless you hate guns, who in their right mind turns in a $500 gun for $50? |
Posted By: malibud
Date Posted: January-20-2013 at 12:10pm
| ok . i am sorry but there is no reason to have a 50 round clip should i be able to buy a machine gun a rocket launcher ? where do you draw the line . i am sorry i am all for guns and own guns, but we haveto draw the line some where . the nra are a bunch of idiots. yes we need laws to protect us from armor pierceing bullets. i am sorry that everyone here is sore about obama winning the popular vote. i think you will find that the majority of America wants some sort of gun control. |
Posted By: SN206
Date Posted: January-20-2013 at 12:19pm
As an educator? ------------- ...those who have fallen and those who will. |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: January-20-2013 at 12:21pm
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The majority of Americans know we already have gun control. What's being proposed is more gun control, none of which would have prevented any of the mass shootings if it were in place prior to. The President hasn't even tried to make the case that his proposals would have prevented Newtown. The schools need to be secured better than locking all the doors except the front door and having a secretary keep an eye on it. Most of these hi capacity mags are 20 or 30, not 50. That's an exaggaration. |
Posted By: MI-nick
Date Posted: January-20-2013 at 12:22pm
the masses are incurably ignorant -Plato ------------- As far as I can tell, I'm not quite sure... |
Posted By: MI-nick
Date Posted: January-20-2013 at 12:24pm
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also, you can buy a machine gun...it just takes a lot of money and you have to go through a lot of red tape. ------------- As far as I can tell, I'm not quite sure... |
Posted By: peter1234
Date Posted: January-20-2013 at 12:32pm
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Malibud. the NRA may seem like idiots to you but they are just the equal and opposing force to fight and hopefully at least find a middle ground from the people who want to take all guns away from the private citizens . think about that and the repercussions of that. as for yes you should be able to buy a machine gun they are a great investment and if you read things as an educated school employee should you will find that the guns you refer to do not take part in the vast majority of crimes . and if i am not mistaken . since the gun control act of 1968 there has not been a felony commited by a licensed holder of a machine gun. as for why people want large capacity magasines ? are yo a target shooter? plinker with a 22? some people take target shooting to the next level. remember when you bought your first 22 single shot plinking cans? then maybe you bought your marlin semi auto and could make 4 cans fly ? well its like that only for some it grows into big boy toys making multiple steel plates fall . be careful what you wish for your kids or their kids wont have a second amendment or other rights . ------------- former skylark owner now a formula but I cant let this place go |
Posted By: malibud
Date Posted: January-20-2013 at 12:35pm
| I can buy a 22 clip that holds 50 rounds . If the brady bill still was around it might have prevented something but it is all too late. there are now more guns than people... |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: January-20-2013 at 12:39pm
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Dan You mistakenly assume that Obama wants to solve the problem. If you look at any of the "solutions" he has offered in the past four years they have been designed to do one thing only. That is to grow the size, power and wealth of government at the expense of the private citizens. Obama knows if he fixes a problem he looses the opportunity to offer his "solutions". ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: January-20-2013 at 12:40pm
We know, thats how we got Obama. ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: January-20-2013 at 12:43pm
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The NRA is far more than a political group. They are the authority on all things to do with guns, whether safety, competitions or collecting. The current background check system was co sponsored by the NRA and the Brady Compaign, although Brady Compaign always takes the whole credit for it. All kids in public school should be taught gun safety. The NRA has or had an Eddie Eagle program where this guy in an eagle suit comes into elementary and middle schools and tells kids the message of "if you find a gun leave it alone, leave the room and tell an adult". Real basic stuff that all kids should be taught. Our school district voted it down about 10 years ago when the NRA offered it for free. They teach middle school kids how to have safe gay sex, but not gun safety. The guns in questions aren't .22s. |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: January-20-2013 at 12:48pm
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Obama's administration allowed 1,961 guns to walk to criminals as part of fast and furious, 57 have been linked to violent crimes including two mass shootings in Mexico. They want problems for their solutions. ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: msanautique
Date Posted: January-20-2013 at 12:59pm
| OBAMAS A LOSER |
Posted By: SN206
Date Posted: January-20-2013 at 1:00pm
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Perhaps, if only our forefathers could determine the difference between the hunting muskets used to feed their families and the assault musket used for generations and wars to come. ------------- ...those who have fallen and those who will. |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: January-20-2013 at 1:15pm
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The forefathers wanted us armed against a tyrannical government, not for hunting. ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: MI-nick
Date Posted: January-20-2013 at 1:16pm
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speaking of guns in schools...my dad tells me they used to have a gun club in school...kids would walk down the halls carrying their .22's on their way to club events (target shooting i suppose)...not 1 mass shooting...what is different now?? ------------- As far as I can tell, I'm not quite sure... |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: January-20-2013 at 1:25pm
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Rifle teams used to be common. My first year of high school was in 1972 and we had a new school without a rifle range. The old school had a rifle range and my brothers and my father had been on the rifle team. My brother says that on practice days and competitions, he'd bring his rifle to school and leave it in his locker. I know plenty of people in Maine that say when they were kids, they'd bring their gun to school so they could go hunting right after school. They'd just leave it in their locker, no questions asked. The world has really changed. |
Posted By: peter1234
Date Posted: January-20-2013 at 1:39pm
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something in the news i heard half asleep this morning . a girl suspended for pointing a bubble gun at another ? ------------- former skylark owner now a formula but I cant let this place go |
Posted By: SN206
Date Posted: January-20-2013 at 1:43pm
CORRECT!!!! ------------- ...those who have fallen and those who will. |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: January-20-2013 at 1:44pm
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No, kindergartener "threatened" to bring her pink bubble gun the next day to "shoot" another girl with bubbles. She was overheard and suspended initially 10 days for terroristc threats. ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: forvicjr
Date Posted: January-20-2013 at 1:45pm
This sandy hook thing is bad, but people are getting carried away. Student around here caught three days suspension for pointing his finger like a pistol at another student. Stupid. |
Posted By: SN206
Date Posted: January-20-2013 at 1:48pm
Parents and the fear of God. ------------- ...those who have fallen and those who will. |
Posted By: skicat2001
Date Posted: January-20-2013 at 2:42pm
Amen brother...  ------------- 1985 CC 2001-SOLD Lee Michael Johnson |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: January-20-2013 at 3:22pm
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Here is the story "Attorney: Girl, 5, in trouble for chatting about shooting bubble gun John Beauge | Special to PennLive By John Beauge | Special to PennLive on January 18, 2013 at 11:18 AM, updated January 18, 2013 at 1:46 PM MOUNT CARMEL - Talking with a friend about a pink toy bubble gun got a five-year-old kindergarten girl in the Mount Carmel Area School District labeled as a terrorist threat, according to an attorney. The incident occurred Jan. 10 while the girl was waiting in line for a school bus, said Robin Ficker, the Maryland lawyer retained by the girl's family. He would not identify the girl or her parents, but gave this version of events: Talking with a friend, the girl said something to the effect “I’m going to shoot you and I will shoot myself” in reference to the device that shoots out bubbles. The girl did not have the bubble gun with her and has never shot a real gun in her life, Ficker said. Elementary school officials learned of the conversation and questioned the girls the next day, Fickler said. He said the girl did not have a parent present during the 30 minutes of questioning. The result, he said, was that the student was labeled a "terrorist threat" and suspended for 10 days, Ficker said. The school also required her to be evaluated by a psychologist, Ficker said. "This little girl is the least terroristic person in Pennsylvania,” he said. Ficker, who said he was contacted because the mother had read he handled a similar case in Maryland, suggested she ask the principal to expunge the record. That did not happen, but her suspension was reduced to two school days, and the reason for it changed to being labeled as a threat to harm another student. “She’s branded,” Ficker said. School district solicitor Edward Greco said Friday the allegations are being looked into but neither he nor school officials could discuss disciplinary actions. Greco and Ficker acknowledged they are trying to arrange a meeting next week to discuss the situation. Ficker believes the girl’s record should be expunged and she be offered an apology." When you make something this taboo, it will of course become the statement of choice when someone wants to make a statement. ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: 65 'cuda
Date Posted: January-20-2013 at 3:37pm
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My high school shop teacher offered a gunsmithing class, I took a .410 to school! This was in the early 80's. ------------- Gary http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=941" rel="nofollow - 1965 Barracuda SS |
Posted By: malibud
Date Posted: January-20-2013 at 3:47pm
... and kids use to be able smoke at high school and people use to have fist fights things have changed . not to say that there isn, still a rifle team |
Posted By: peter1234
Date Posted: January-20-2013 at 3:58pm
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what exactly do you do working in a school? ------------- former skylark owner now a formula but I cant let this place go |
Posted By: malibud
Date Posted: January-20-2013 at 4:05pm
| I teach special ed. financial management in high school |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: January-20-2013 at 4:26pm
You may be onto something Dan. We may have so effectively eliminated kids natural "steam vents" that all that is left is an explosion when things get to be to much. ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: January-20-2013 at 5:12pm
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Attorney: Girl, 5, in trouble for chatting about shooting bubble gun. I was admonished for saying this on another thread.
How much more proof do we need? ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: jimsport93
Date Posted: January-20-2013 at 5:14pm
 ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2798 - 93 Sport Nautique |
Posted By: jbach
Date Posted: January-21-2013 at 12:24am
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i won't start another gun thread, so i'll just leave this here. i hope people remember this stuff when elections come around. sadly, it's NY, and they won't. http://www.thecommentator.com/article/2495/ny_democrat_pleads_with_republican_not_to_share_document_proposing_confiscation_of_guns" rel="nofollow - NY democrat pleads Republican not to share proposal to confiscate guns |
Posted By: Morfoot
Date Posted: January-21-2013 at 11:46am
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I find it very troubling that with all the proposals introduced, not one is looking into what violent video games and violence on TV is doing to YOUNG kids. Video game industry makes millions of dollars on third person shooter games for the sake of "entertaining" our youth. You can't tell me it doesn't desensitize there developing minds. Violence on TV for the sake of entertainment doesn't help either. Showing the dead victims or full autopsies is getting people comfortable with seeing this sort of stuff. Why has our culture chaged that much? My favorite TV show in the 70's and 80's was M*A*S*H. We NEVER saw an open body or blown off limb or whatever, just a blood stained bandage and Hawkeye lifting it up to see how bad the wound was. Only thing you saw on Quincy was a sheet, maybe an ocassional fully clothed body whose face was blue, and whatever Sam found under the microscope. We had violence on TV but not to the third degree. Heck, I used to get squimish watching NCIS, or HOUSE but as I've watched it I've gotten used to it so don't tell me it hasn't anesthetized me to gruesome scenes . I find it very typical of Hollywood actors and am PO'd at the fact that they will make millions off of movies they are staring in and it's a mvie loaded with revenge or GUN/ASSAULT WEAPON VIOLENCE! Freaking hypocrites they are. Unfortunately the people of this country will not speak up with their wallets and boycott movies like this. I have Platinum Blonde hair these days and get carded EVERY time I order a beer but have never been carded to see an R rated movie. Doesn't really matter as my 14 year old could pay to see a G rated movie walk by the ticket taker and right into an R rated movie. Guys in HS had guns in the gun racks of there trucks and it was fine as long as they weren't loaded. Fights broke out in school (myself included) and whoever won ( me both times) was the victor and that WAS IT! You didn't have to worry about retrobution from the loser or being stabbed or even worry about being shot in the parking lot after school. GAME OVER end of story! Face it the criminals will be laughing at any gun control and be thankful as making prey out of you and me just became easier. They are gonna break any law passed if they are that determined. The woman here in Ga protecting her twins shot @ the scumbag 6 TIMES and hit him 5. She kept pulling the trigger as he was still coming but all it did was go click. He finally stopped and asked her to quit shooting, turned and left, got in his car and wrecked as he was leaving. Had she had a clip the coroner would have removed the guy and the GA taxpayers would have one less criminal to pay for. I for one wished she did have a 10 round magazine. Take or restrict the 2nd amendment right away from the LAW ABIDING citizens of this country and that coroner would have been removing a woman, and a set of twins beaten to death by some POS with a crowbar. THAT'S why you have 10 round magazines! With all the nut jobs running around these days I've been giving some serious thought to getting my CWP and carrying everywhere I go. Not because I'm scared but I want be able to be prepared to defend myself, my family and my friends, by firing back and not with a loaded finger! ------------- "Morfoot; He can ski. He can wakeboard.He can cook chicken.He can create his own self-named beverage, & can also apparently fly. A man of many talents."72 Mustang "Kermit",88 SN Miss Scarlett, 99 SN "Sherman" |
Posted By: quinner
Date Posted: January-21-2013 at 12:23pm
I think gun control is a great idea, look how well it has worked here in Chicago, some of the strictest gun control laws in the country...over 500 killed (murdered) in 2012. Thanks (former) senator O'!! ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1143" rel="nofollow - Mi Bowt |
Posted By: SN206
Date Posted: January-21-2013 at 5:17pm
That's beacause Holywood and the media are not going to cut there own throats. They would rather cut Obama a check. ------------- ...those who have fallen and those who will. |
Posted By: john b
Date Posted: January-21-2013 at 8:36pm
It has worked fairly well in Chicago. Maybe you want to go back to the " good old days" that only exist in the minds of people who don't research historical murder rates. Chicago's murder rate is 18.03 per 100,000, roughly the same as it was in 1967. Nevertheless, the city's rate is substantially higher than some other large cities, including New York City (6.3 per 100,000) and Los Angeles (10.0 per 100,000). On the other hand, Chicago is relatively safe compared with Philadelphia (23.0 per 100,000), Detroit (33.8 per 100,000), and Gary, Indiana (73.2 per 100,000). What are Philly, Detroit, and Gary's gun laws. One thing in common, when you transfer jobs and opportunity from previously functional cities to other locations and overseas, the poverty created by this causes desperation in the unemployed who will now do anything necessary to feed, clothe, and provide shelter for themselves and their family. Crime is a quick fix, and even if caught, the accommodations in prison are, many times far better than what these people have experienced on the street. That being said, I don't think the type of gun control being discussed will have much effect on the overall murder rate. ------------- 1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox" If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
Posted By: peter1234
Date Posted: January-21-2013 at 10:14pm
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i would say it will have an effect on the interpretation of what the supreme court has defined the second amendment to mean ------------- former skylark owner now a formula but I cant let this place go |
Posted By: john b
Date Posted: January-21-2013 at 10:31pm
The Supreme Court has defined it, I think it is unlikely they will revisit the issue. Without a re- wrie of the Constitution I don't believe there is any reason on any issue. Would one of you attorneys on the site care to clarify under what circumstances the Supreme Court can revisit and issue previously ruled upon. I am not a gun control proponent, really I am just not very interested in them. ------------- 1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox" If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: January-22-2013 at 2:54am
Obama will not go after his big contributors in Hollywood. He knows who butters his bead. ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: Kristof
Date Posted: January-22-2013 at 8:29am
So, I spent about an hour reading this whole thread and I found it time to write my Belgian input here...
This is the post I can relate to the most. As some of you know, Belgium has gun control laws. In short: we are not alowed to own guns. One can only own a gun if he is an accredited member of a hunting club or shooting club, which has to be accredited by the government. We have never been allowed to posess military kind of weapons anyway. You can only have your gun with you on the way from your house to your club. The gun has to be in a sealed bag or case and your ammunition has to be in a separate sealed case. A few years ago, all law obiding Belgians surrendered their weapons according to the new law... The evalution on this matter? Crimes involving weapons HAVE NOT diminished... Why you say? Because criminals or anyone determined to shoot somebody can still get their hands on a firearm on the black market... Thus: law obiding citizens that used to own a gun to protect themselves have become even more easy preys for criminals.
This post tells the same story... And, in Belgium, the death sentence has been abolished for quite some time. I too am in favor of reinstating it in the cases mentionned above! Because I for one don't wanna pay taxes to allow these b*stards to eat three full meals a day, watch television and read books!!!! ------------- - Gun control means: using BOTH hands! - Money doesn't make one happy, but when it rains cats and dogs, it's still better to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle... |
Posted By: Kristof
Date Posted: January-22-2013 at 8:34am
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Oh and BTW... READ AND THINK ABOUT MY SIGNATURE LINE...  ------------- - Gun control means: using BOTH hands! - Money doesn't make one happy, but when it rains cats and dogs, it's still better to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle... |
Posted By: Nautiquehunter
Date Posted: January-22-2013 at 11:33am
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Smoke and mirrors while everybody is debating guns,abortion,and birth control, Obama gets the dept ceiling raised and spends billions more. Anybody watch the inauguration 25 million spent nothing accomplished. |
Posted By: peter1234
Date Posted: January-22-2013 at 12:51pm
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but doesnt he give us hope?? ------------- former skylark owner now a formula but I cant let this place go |
Posted By: john b
Date Posted: January-22-2013 at 4:15pm
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I'm reaching out to you hard core gun rights guys. What do you think needs to be done, if anything at all? Are the mass murders just the price we pay for the right to own guns? Do you think very strict enforcement of existing gun laws would be the answer? What are your thoughts? Is the NRA on the right path, or have they stepped in it with their response to the recent murders? A bit unrelated, but has anyone used a .223 for hunting say, a wild boar? Is it effective? Either in a Ranch rifle, Bushmaster, or AR15? I am not looking for justification for or against them, I just wonder if they are viable for this. BTW, other than security and the cost of the ceremony, the inauguration is paid for by private donations. In my mind it doesn't matter if you agree with the policies of the newly sworn in president, it is an awesome responsibility and should be a public celebration. Like the honor guard at the tomb, it is a sacred tradition that should be respected by everyone who loves this country. When the ceremony is confined to a secret location and observed by a only a select few I will really start to worry. ------------- 1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox" If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
Posted By: bhectus
Date Posted: January-22-2013 at 4:38pm
Apparently you failed to read Kristof's post. Please go back and re-read. As to answering your question about using a .223 for hunting wild boars - Yes, there is a show called "Pigman" on the Outdoor Channel and that is all he uses when he is hunting with a rifle. It is chambered in .308 however. The AR15 platform is a very versatile and accurate hunting rifle and I personally hunt with people that use them and are very successful with them. They are wildly popular with ranchers to kill coyotes and the .223 round is perfect for this task. Coyotes are pack animals and there are usually a lot of them hunting their prey together. Having a magazine that holds less than 10 rounds would not be very effective here. The ranchers use the AR's to protect their livestock. I personally this past SATURDAY was sitting in my treestand when 2 boars walked in. I shot the first one and the second one ran right toward me. I was using a 30-30 lever action and did not have time to re-chamber another round. Pig got away. Thank god I wasn't on the ground or I would have been in serious danger. This is a real life event that is perfectly relevant to your question here. Having a semi-auto in this instance would have been very helpful. And in response to your last comment on the inauguration: He only had 2 ceremonial balls this year but last term he had 10!! I don't think they were all privately paid for. Why does any president need more than one? |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: January-22-2013 at 5:28pm
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The NRA is right, although I think they should have made the case for just securing schools and not specifically for arming schools. Very few teachers at my kids schools would have a clue about handling a gun. Maybe in a rural area, but not in my progressive city. There is nothing anyone can do to keep a nut from doing the unthinkable, except not allowing him access in the first place. The Newtown shooting has been weirdly quiet the past few weeks. It seems odd that no info has been released about the kid and his home and how he got hold of his mother's guns, despite all the constant anti gun stuff in the media. I have read articles that claim the .223 is suitable for deer size game with the correct bullets, not the inexpensive miltary type bullets that fall apart on impact, that are widely available and most people plink with. |
Posted By: john b
Date Posted: January-22-2013 at 6:46pm
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Thanks for the input on the AR15. I have no experience shooting anything other than shooting targets, cars, and other cover with them. It seems to me it is the perfect people killer and I thought it would be effective hunting as well. They are really fun to shoot, but I really haven't done it since I retired. On another note, that woman in GA with the twins is a moron of the highest magnitude. I read all of the stories I could find on the incident. The report says that the burglar repeatedly knocked on the door and rang the door bell ( sop for a burglar ). She then watched him walk from the front door to his car, retrieve a pry bar, and walk back to the door. Instead of calling the police she called her husband at work. She then took her children to an upstairs crawl space and hid with a gun and listened while the guy tossed the house. When he finally got to the crawl space she shot him. Most people are smart enough to dial 911. In my jurisdiction response to " in progress " calls is normally under 2 minutes. She may have very well subjected herself to civil penalties for shooting him as we'll, even though she is probably criminally on solid ground. We, the taxpayers are now paying for surgery, intensive care, rehab, and I am sure a host of other costs related to her actions. She turned what would have most likely been a simple arrest of a burglar into a huge mess. ------------- 1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox" If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
Posted By: peter1234
Date Posted: January-22-2013 at 6:46pm
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I think everyone needs to take the NRA with the same grain of salt as fienstien bloomberg and the rest of the extreme antis . I dont always believe everything is correct or doable but the stance against extreme antis is needed with everyones hope for a middle ground. as far as the 223 for deer size game it would fall for me into the not enough cartridge for northern deer and its limits for smaller deer would be at or under 150 yds. I hunt deer with both a 257 roberts ( ballistically between a 30 30 and a 223 as far as muzzel engergy ) and 300 mag but the 223 has appr 3 to 400 fps speed advantage over the 30 30 in hunting bullet loads. for boar hunting i would venture a guess that it is fine for animals into the 100 lb range with a heart lung shot . if it were me i would be in the a/r 10 platform in a 165 -180 gr 308. for more stopping power. those pigs scare me though so i would actually be in the 338 or bigger mag. ------------- former skylark owner now a formula but I cant let this place go |
Posted By: peter1234
Date Posted: January-22-2013 at 6:48pm
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edit retract if one of those pigs were running after me i would want a drilling in 470 nitro express and a back up 12 ga slug gun with a 454 casull on my hip ------------- former skylark owner now a formula but I cant let this place go |
Posted By: john b
Date Posted: January-22-2013 at 6:53pm
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Personally, I think the NRA should stay far from suggesting how to secure our schools and tactical issues and concentrate on training, competition, lobbying, and promoting sporting use of guns. I believe that are stepping where they should not tread and leaving a bad taste for many. I know controversy brings donations, but I believe they have shot themselves in the foot this time. ------------- 1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox" If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
Posted By: peter1234
Date Posted: January-22-2013 at 7:01pm
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they probably have and there is a divide forming within their own members. myself i cant agree with everything they do but they are the only real representation we as gun owners have . ------------- former skylark owner now a formula but I cant let this place go |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: January-22-2013 at 7:11pm
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They are a good organization. How can you negotiate with any of the amendments? I just received a letter from SAM, (Sportsmans Alliance of Maine) looking for donations as they believe that Maine is about to be inundated with Gun Bills and they are probably right, with the Dems, particularly from liberal southern Maine, taking over Augusta this past November. Apparently there is the idea if the 2nd amendment could be repealed and gun ownership was treated as a privlege rather than a right, "meaningful" gun control laws could then be passed. |
Posted By: peter1234
Date Posted: January-22-2013 at 7:37pm
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Bruce sounds like mass is growing into southern maine like it did into so NH ------------- former skylark owner now a formula but I cant let this place go |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: January-22-2013 at 7:50pm
| People in northern Maine refer to southern Maine as North Massachusetts. |
Posted By: john b
Date Posted: January-22-2013 at 8:04pm
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Here is a statistic that on it's own would seem to indicate that Chicago's handgun ban is working: Since the Chicago handgun ban was instituted the Chicago murder rate has averaged 17% lower than it was before the law took effect. However: During the same period of time the U.S. murder rate has averaged 25% lower. Maybe things are pretty good left alone. ------------- 1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox" If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
Posted By: skicat2001
Date Posted: January-22-2013 at 10:11pm
Thanks to my boy Limbaugh,it all hit me.Why he kept using Reagan in his words,"I want to be like Reagan".I could never figure that one out.I found it insulting.A Reagan he will never be. Reagan transformed this nation into captilism.Policy and moral values.Obama wants the same but as Greece.This is his plan of America.Transform America into a full fledge SOCIALISM!! I did not watch the inaugration.I went on a interview,thank GOD,and watched sports center after.Caught bits and pieaces of it on Neil Cavoto.I am just going to enjoy telling folks,"Told you So"!!  ------------- 1985 CC 2001-SOLD Lee Michael Johnson |
Posted By: 05 210
Date Posted: January-22-2013 at 10:49pm
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I'm going to try to stay out of this one. I have already made my position on the issue known. I will leave this link to a video here for anyone who wants to take the time to watch it. It is long. About 25 minutes. It is also a little slow and only one man's opinion, but he has the experience to talk about it and the reason behind the second ammendment. Travis is well respected in the firearms industry. He is a decorated special operations soldier, owns a very successful training company that specializes in dynamic training and weapons manipulation, is a level headed thinker, and does his research. He also does not sugar coat anything. I believe this video sums up where we are at as a country, but you need to listen very carefully to everything he says from the beginning to the end. I firmly believe Johnb's question about the price we pay for our gun rights is answered when he talks about nutnfancys video " the greater good". If you take the time to watch this video and come away empty handed, you should move to another country. http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=yIGzj6eIwWU" rel="nofollow - Travis Haley on the second ammendment ETA: He drops one FBomb along the way so probably not good viewing for young ones. Mike ------------- http:/diaries/details.asp?ID=2219" rel="nofollow - Air Nautique 210 Team 640 hours, not 1 regret |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: January-22-2013 at 11:33pm
John, For a moron I think this women did pretty well by herself. First she did not answer the door when the crook (the real moron) knocked. She rounded up her kids, fulfilled her obligation to retreat, called a trusted source that gave her excellent advice (shoot him, shoot him again) which I doubt the 911 operator would have ever said. You and I both know that not everyone is guaranteed an average response time. It could be 2 minutes or ten. If she failed to shoot she could have faced a range of assaults, on her and her children, or a hostage situation or who knows what else. The situation was resolved with her being empowered and the crook learning a valuable lesson about messin with the wife of a well armed man. win-win As far as tax payers paying for the results of the actions of a moron,well who's the morons now? ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: john b
Date Posted: January-23-2013 at 4:24am
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Dave, it's not because she shot an intruder, it's because she never called 911 until it was over, she didn't ask who was at the front door ( burglars almost always knock and ring for a while because they don't want a confrontation ), and if the bad guy had a gun or an accomplice he very well may have ended all of their lives after she ran out of bullets and he was still in the fight. In that case there would be no one to call the police. As an EMT what does the average citizen do in the eve t of a medical emergency? Dial 911! I know your training made that clear. I am not arguing against home protection, but she did practically everything wrong. She was very lucky. Burglars generally flee when confronted. In my 20 years I have only arrested one armed burglar that I can remember. ------------- 1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox" If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
Posted By: Kristof
Date Posted: January-23-2013 at 5:49am
John, That is a good example of propaganda for a law they just passed. That way they can say: "You see? We did good passing that bill!" The last sentence proves it has nothing to do with that law, since in all of the U.S. the rate had lowered. Same here in Belgium. When the new law passed, crimes involving firearms dropped a little. Off course, the politicians were all gloating and padding themselves on the back for passing such a great law... Gun crimes dropped some 5 or 10% in that first year... Wow, what a spectacular drop for a nation where there were no firearms anymore (supposedly)...  The year after, crime rate was almost back to it's original rate, which clearly proves that criminals still posessed as much weapons as they always had... They just had it easier since their law obiding victims had no adequate response anymore. I don't have a gun anymore. But I plan to get my membership in a gun club... I still have mace and a retractable baton in the house (also forbidden BTW), because I refuse to let criminals invade my house or do harm to my loved ones whitout giving them a hell of a fight... If I do it for my country in a strange land, I sure as hell will do it for my home and family!!!  ------------- - Gun control means: using BOTH hands! - Money doesn't make one happy, but when it rains cats and dogs, it's still better to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle... |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: January-23-2013 at 10:35am
So you see a danger or liability in Obama limiting clip size for legal gun owners? ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: peter1234
Date Posted: January-23-2013 at 11:16am
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I hope everyone realizes that Kristof and his fellow countrymen stand as a poster child for what can happen .I know its not likely to be at that level in our lifetime but doesnt everyone that reads about his laws have at least an inkling that it can happen here ------------- former skylark owner now a formula but I cant let this place go |
Posted By: peter1234
Date Posted: January-23-2013 at 11:26am
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she probably should have scared him away so he could go to someone else's house to break in ------------- former skylark owner now a formula but I cant let this place go |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: January-23-2013 at 11:30am
A lot of things have happened in the last for years at a a level I did not expect to see in our lifetime.  ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: Nautiquehunter
Date Posted: January-23-2013 at 11:33am
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John Are you saying its the woman's fault for being robbed and protecting her family? Dam her for not trusting the police to get there in time to Maybe stop the POS from robbing and possibly doing harm. The only thing I see she did wrong was not having a gun with a large enough magazine to finish the job.My 40 cal holds 12 plus 1 in the chamber. One thing for sure the next time the POS breaks in to a house he will probably flee if he finds someone hiding. A better solution to these shooting is to look to the source. Mentally ill people almost all on prescription drugs. Non of these shootings were done by sane law abiding citizens with legally owned guns but they are the people the new regulations will affect the most. Criminals and insane people dont care about laws or regulations. Until they look to the real source they are only blaming cars for traffic accidents. |
Posted By: SN206
Date Posted: January-23-2013 at 12:23pm
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"Protect and Serve" is one thing, but I'm not sure it's the police responcibility to defend you. Some people still choose to keep thier heads in the sand. ------------- ...those who have fallen and those who will. |
Posted By: skicat2001
Date Posted: January-23-2013 at 12:55pm
John my brother,if it is the one I am thinking of,she was on the phone with her husband who called 911.He told his wife if he comes in that room,"You shoot him".Remeber what I taught you!!He did and he told her over and over ,"shoot him,shoot him,shoot him again". Now you flip the story,and take her guns away,instead we read headlines of"Mom and kid die on intruder invasion"! ------------- 1985 CC 2001-SOLD Lee Michael Johnson |
Posted By: john b
Date Posted: January-23-2013 at 1:26pm
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Yea, she was really bright. Next time I have a flat tire I'm calling my dentist! I'm happy it ended well for her. ------------- 1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox" If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: January-23-2013 at 1:39pm
If your dentist is your wife and she has a spare and a jack. Why not? ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: Nautiquehunter
Date Posted: January-23-2013 at 2:30pm
On the same line Why would you call anybody ? Assuming you had the tools to do the job and the knowledge of how to use them. I used to think like you until it became painfully clear that the police are not there to prevent crime only clean up the mess after its all over. They cant and wont prevent you from being a victim. It is your job to protect yourself and your love ones. 
|
Posted By: john b
Date Posted: January-23-2013 at 3:24pm
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I guess these guys grabbed the gun. http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-10-09/news/chi-cops-retired-detective-fatally-shoots-son-after-mistaking-him-for-intruder-20121009_1_michael-griffin-james-griffin-stephen-griffin" rel="nofollow - Retired detective fatally shoots son after mistaking him for intruder Connecticut father kills masked intruder, learns it's his son. A father in Connecticut mistakenly shot his 15-year-old son outside a neighbor’s house during what appeared to be an attempted burglary, police said. Jeffrey Giuliano, of New Fairfield, shot his adopted son Tyler at about 1 a.m. Thursday. A woman who was alone in a neighbor’s house believed someone was breaking in and called Giuliano, who lives next door. Police said he armed himself with a handgun and went outside to investigate. Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/09/28/connecticut-father-kills-masked-intruder-learns-it-his-son/#ixzz2IorQqAfu Minn. man charged for shooting granddaughter A Rochester pastor is charged with a felony for shooting and wounding his granddaughter after mistaking her for an intruder last month. Sixty-one-year-old Stanley Wilkinson is charged with intentional discharge of a firearm that endangered safety. A court appearance is scheduled Feb. 25. Wilkinson told police he grabbed his pistol after hearing a noise outside his house Dec. 10 and fired two rounds after seeing what he thought was someone trying to open the deck door. It turned out to be his 16-year-old granddaughter, who was struck once in the neck. The teen had been living with her grandparents. She told police she left the house without her grandparents knowing. Wilkinson is pastor at the Seventh-Day Adventist Church in Rochester. Calls left for him were not immediately returned Thursday night. Girlfriend killed when mistaken for intruder is identified; NATOMAS, CA - A woman mistaken for an intruder who was shot and killed by her boyfriend inside a Natomas home Monday was identified by the Sacramento County coroner as 34-year-old Desire Ann Miller. According to Sacramento Police Department Officer Michelle Gigante, Miller went into the dark bedroom around 5:30 Monday morning where her boyfriend was sleeping. He awoke to see the silhouette of a person in his room, mistook the person for an intruder, grabbed a gun and shot Miller. When the man realized what had happened, he called 911 and informed them of the shooting, said Gigante. Emergency personnel arrived at the home on the 200 block of Battle Creek Circle and transported Miller to a nearby hospital where she was pronounced dead shortly before 7:30 a.m. Sacramento police withheld the identity of the man. MISTAKEN FOR A BURGLAR.; A FATHER SHOOTS HIS OWN DAUGHTER-- THE WOUND PROBABLY FATAL. PHILADELPHIA, March 5.--Charles C. Marple, a florist, living in Gloucester, N.J., and doing business at No. 524 Market-street, Camden, shot his daughter this morning, mistaking her for a burglar. The wound is very serious, Miss Mary Marple, the victim, is pretty and intelligent girl, 20 years old. She assisted her father in his business and was noted for her taste in the arrangement of floral decorations. A 24-year-old San Mateo man was shot three times when he entered the residence on the 600 block of Crane Avenue just after 4 a.m. March 25. Authorities say he had spent the night drinking with friends the previous night and was so intoxicated he inadvertently thought the residence belonged to a friend. Inside the home, a Brentwood man staying over after a family gathering thought the unarmed man was an intruder and opened fire. NEW ORLEANS -- Authorities say a New Orleans woman shot and killed her husband after mistaking him for an intruder. Police say the 53-year-old woman shot the 57-year-old man Monday, shortly after 11 a.m. at their home in the city's Lower 9th Ward. Neither the name of the victim or his wife was released, pending notification of other family members. For each of the few cases of someone successfully killing an intruder there are many more cases of someone accidentally killing a family member. I could post hundreds of these. I am on the fulcrum of the gun control debate. In very few instances do they offer any kind of protection. Keep your guns for plinking, hunting, or just for fun, but for home defense, they have proven to kill a lot more family members than intruders. ------------- 1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox" If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: January-23-2013 at 3:44pm
| No doubt pointing a gun at someone is serious business. I doubt that there are many more cases of someone accidentally shooting a family member rather than an intruder, but one is too many. In any case, the lady in GA did good and who knows how it may have turned out if she waited to be rescued by the police? In rural Maine, 1/2 hour or more response time for the state police or sheriff is not unusual. We had a guy shoot a kid that was trying to burn down the guy's house earlier this year. He didn't kill him, but Maine law specifically gives you permission to shoot someone if they're committing arson on your property. It's got to suck being put in that position, but what can you do? |
Posted By: bhectus
Date Posted: January-23-2013 at 5:51pm
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John, are you serious? Those instances you posted are the absolute exception to the norm. You also conveniently cut out the dates on those stories. Wonder how many years you had to go back to collect those... I can come up with instances where people have choked on a chicken bone and died. Should we outlaw chickens? Come on man. ------------- '02 Ski Nautique 196 w/ 5.7 Apex bowtie - Sold '87 Barefoot - sold '97 Super Sport Nautique - originally custom built for Walt Meloon '97 Ski Nautique '83 SN 2001 |
Posted By: john b
Date Posted: January-23-2013 at 6:23pm
Between September 2012 and December 2012 Google it yourself there are hundreds ------------- 1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox" If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: January-23-2013 at 6:40pm
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And how many unarmed victims were shot by criminals in the same period? ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: john b
Date Posted: January-23-2013 at 7:20pm
As I have said before, I really don't care either way about gun control. That being clearly established, it seems that many gun advocates suffer from a "Rambo" or "This gun makes me tough and macho" mentality. I don't care if you own one, just don't deceive yourself, they seldom offer protection and cause many accidental deaths. A study examined all gunshot injuries (nonfatal as well as fatal) in the home occurring in Memphis, Tennessee; Seattle, Washington; and Galveston, Texas (1992–1994) in which the gun involved was known to be kept in the home. Home guns were 4 times more likely to be involved in an accident, 7 times more likely to be used in a criminal assault or homicide, and 11 times more likely to be used in an attempted or completed suicide than to be used to injure or kill in self-defense. http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/753058_3" rel="nofollow - Dr David Hemenway PHD short synopsis ------------- 1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox" If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
Posted By: peter1234
Date Posted: January-23-2013 at 7:38pm
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Boy for somebody who doesnt care either way you sure seem to care ------------- former skylark owner now a formula but I cant let this place go |
Posted By: Nautiquehunter
Date Posted: January-23-2013 at 7:39pm
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How do you explain this? The last paragraph says it all . This happened to me the entire altercation was brought to an end at the mere sight of the gun tucked in my buddy's belt standing behind me. Never drawn ,never pointed ,never shot. comments. Gun Ownership Mandatory In Kennesaw, Georgia --- Crime Rate Plummets tysk news ^ | 1997 | Baldwin Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2007 3:29:03 PM by doug from upland Gun Ownership Mandatory In Kennesaw, Georgia Crime Rate Plummets by Chuck Baldwin The New American magazine reminds us that March 25th marked the 16th anniversary of Kennesaw, Georgia's ordinance requiring heads of households (with certain exceptions) to keep at least one firearm in their homes. The city's population grew from around 5,000 in 1980 to 13,000 by 1996 (latest available estimate). Yet there have been only three murders: two with knives (1984 and 1987) and one with a firearm (1997). After the law went into effect in 1982, crime against persons plummeted 74 percent compared to 1981, and fell another 45 percent in 1983 compared to 1982. And it has stayed impressively low. In addition to nearly non-existent homicide (murders have averaged a mere 0.19 per year), the annual number of armed robberies, residential burglaries, commercial burglaries, and rapes have averaged, respectively, 1.69, 31.63, 19.75, and 2.00 through 1998. With all the attention that has been heaped upon the lawful possession of firearms lately, you would think that a city that requires gun ownership would be the center of a media feeding frenzy. It isn't. The fact is I can't remember a major media outlet even mentioning Kennesaw. Can you? The reason is obvious. Kennesaw proves that the presence of firearms actually improves safety and security. This is not the message that the media want us to hear. They want us to believe that guns are evil and are the cause of violence. The facts tell a different story. What is even more interesting about Kennesaw is that the city's crime rate decreased with the simple knowledge that the entire community was armed. The bad guys didn't force the residents to prove it. Just knowing that residents were armed prompted them to move on to easier targets. Most criminals don't have a death wish. There have been two occasions in my own family when the presence of a handgun averted potential disaster. In both instances the gun was never aimed at a person and no shot was fired. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
Posted By: peter1234
Date Posted: January-23-2013 at 7:43pm
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John B wrote...For each of the few cases of someone successfully killing an intruder there are many more cases of someone accidentally killing a family member. I could post hundreds of these. I am on the fulcrum of the gun control debate. In very few instances do they offer any kind of protection. Keep your guns for plinking, hunting, or just for fun, but for home defense, they have proven to kill a lot more family members than intruders are you stating that as a fact that more people kill family members than intruders. or are you stating that more people kill their family members when mistaking them for intruders than the people shoot intruders ------------- former skylark owner now a formula but I cant let this place go |
Posted By: jbach
Date Posted: January-23-2013 at 7:45pm
don't kid yourself. you're clearly against the 2nd amendment, but a proud proponent of the 1st. that's cool |
Posted By: jbach
Date Posted: January-23-2013 at 7:51pm
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we all knew this was coming. luckily it doesn't have enough traction to pass. doing so would be political suicide for a lot of dems. as if it needs to be said but, screw that lady. she nees to trip over a wood chipper. btw, she has a conceal carry, not that she needs it with her bodyguard. http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/feinstein-introduce-assault-weapons-ban-thursday-163138590--politics.html" rel="nofollow - feinstein's ban to be introduced thursday |
Posted By: john b
Date Posted: January-23-2013 at 7:58pm
Really? Then You didn't read my post. I think you should own whatever you want as long as it is legal, but as far as home protection, statistics show it is a liability, not an asset. ------------- 1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox" If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
Posted By: john b
Date Posted: January-23-2013 at 8:01pm
With your ability to misinterpret a clearly written message and see into my mind then determine that I am in favor or something I clearly stated I am not, is indicative of the reasons so many myths appear on this thread. Would it help if I sent you a scan of my palm to read? ------------- 1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox" If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
Posted By: peter1234
Date Posted: January-23-2013 at 8:09pm
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so your statement above was that more family members are killed by guns in the home than intruders or more family members are killed when mistaken for intruders than real intruders .. because if its the first part then that really doesnt fit the issue you were responding to does it? ------------- former skylark owner now a formula but I cant let this place go |
Posted By: john b
Date Posted: January-23-2013 at 8:21pm
From all of the statistics I have found and examined, about 4 times as many family members are killed with guns kept in their home from all causes including accidental shooting of the wrong person, negligent discharge, ect, than are protected against an intruder. It makes perfect sense as well. If you are around guns the probability of a gun accident increases. ------------- 1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox" If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
Posted By: john b
Date Posted: January-23-2013 at 8:28pm
Can you be more clear on the point, Peter. What issue doesn't something fit? ------------- 1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox" If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
Posted By: john b
Date Posted: January-23-2013 at 8:34pm
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Here is another rant for you all Why don't you gun owners all stick together and say that the Supreme Court has upheld your right to own guns and therefore you can do it. All of this crazy talk of home defense makes gun owners look like paranoid cowards who would like nothing more than to shoot someone. I don't like that image and the non gun owning public doesn't either. ------------- 1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox" If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
Posted By: peter1234
Date Posted: January-23-2013 at 8:35pm
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"For each of the few cases of someone successfully killing an intruder there are many more cases of someone accidentally killing a family member." I think john that it might have been my interpretation and maybe for others as well that you were saying that more people are mistakenly killed as an intruder than actual intruders. ------------- former skylark owner now a formula but I cant let this place go |