1972 Skiier - overheating
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Engine Repair
Forum Discription: Engine problems and solutions
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28826
Printed Date: October-05-2024 at 6:43pm
Topic: 1972 Skiier - overheating
Posted By: sptimes2
Subject: 1972 Skiier - overheating
Date Posted: January-24-2013 at 4:44pm
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Hi, I'm running out of ideas, then I remembered this forum, so I'll try here. My Skiier has been overheating. Symptoms - I launch it, and it runs great for 30 minutes or so. Typically, we'll take a break to swim, and that's when the problems start. I often have a terrible time getting it started and running - it may start, but then as soon as I give it any gas, it dies. If I'm able to get it to run, then the temperature fluctuates all over the place. Sometimes, when it starts to get hot, I've been able to give it a little rev and that seems to get the water circulating and the temp comes down for a bit, but it doesn't stay that way. My mechanic says he thinks I've got cracked head(s), but he can't know for sure until he tears into it. (It's a dry land shop, so it always runs fine in the shop, as it's not under load). So, I'm faced with the decision of trusting this uncertain diagnosis and getting the head(s) repaired at a price approaching $2000, or to investigate just replacing the engine (price not determined). I should mention, I've got a Ford 302 with reverse rotation. Any help or ideas? Also, I don't think I'm going to be able to afford to keep it after this repair, meaning I'm probably going to repair and sell.  I'm guessing it would make the most sense financially to repair and sell, not sell as is, but I'm not sure. |
Replies:
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: January-24-2013 at 4:46pm
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Stop right there. Do not take it to that thief. We need to verify a few things first. ------------- |
Posted By: noll
Date Posted: January-24-2013 at 5:10pm
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I would check for bad hoses first,then water pump to see if it pulling water. It could also be a bad intake gasket. I'm sure there will be other sugesstion to try. Good luck. Noll ------------- n.Williams |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: January-24-2013 at 5:13pm
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I'm with HW, If he is any type of mechanic at all he should be able to tell if water is entering cylinders without taking the engine apart. Where are you located? Maybe a fellow CCF'r is close to you! ------------- |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: January-24-2013 at 5:17pm
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http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2796" rel="nofollow - Maplewood, MN ------------- |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: January-24-2013 at 5:20pm
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Thank ya Tim! ------------- |
Posted By: 75 Tique
Date Posted: January-24-2013 at 5:30pm
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Definitely don't make any decisions based on that mechanic's opinion. The VAST majority of cooling problems are a cheap quick fix, tightened connections, impellor, worst case, (like mine) $139 for a new WP (well I guess a new pump can be a littel more that that, I was lucky). See if its a water intake problem. Run it in the driveway out of a bucket (NOT WITH A HOSE) for as long as it takes to replicate the scenario above to see that you get a continuous draw of water. Seems to me if you had a cracked head you would have water in cylinders or oil and even if so, its not a $2,000 repair. Don't walk away from that guy, run away. And certainly don't believe that this little set back has to result in the sale of your boat. ------------- _____________ “So, how was your weekend?” “Well, let me see…sun burn, stiff neck, screwed up back, assorted aches and pains….yup, my weekend was great, thanks for asking.” |
Posted By: sptimes2
Date Posted: January-24-2013 at 5:33pm
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Wow, I didn't expect so many responses that quick. Thanks all! Yes, I'm in Maplewood, MN. If the hoses are bad, wouldn't I have a fair amount of water in the bilge? Regarding water pump - do they fail in such a way where they become inconsistent (as opposed to just stopping altogether) ? Sorry, I don't have a great mechanical mind - this is stretching me more than I am comfortable! |
Posted By: sptimes2
Date Posted: January-24-2013 at 5:41pm
| 75 Tique, thanks. I have run it in the driveway with a bucket and it seems to draw water well. If I rev it, I'll go through 5-10 gallons a minute, I'd estimate. As for duplicating the scenario, isn't the load on the engine a significant factor? That is, there's no load when I run it in the driveway. |
Posted By: 75 Tique
Date Posted: January-24-2013 at 5:44pm
EDIT: I was typing during yoru last post. Hmmmmm. Draws water fine from bucket. Anybody else???? ------------- _____________ “So, how was your weekend?” “Well, let me see…sun burn, stiff neck, screwed up back, assorted aches and pains….yup, my weekend was great, thanks for asking.” |
sptimes2 wrote:Posted By: backfoot100
Date Posted: January-24-2013 at 5:50pm
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$2K for repairing cracked heads????? Holy Crap. I'm in the wrong business. HW is right. Lets get some more info and I'm sure we can help you out. How long has this been going on? What service if any has been done to it most recently? How many hours on the boat? How long have you had it? When was the last time the raw water pump (RWP) had the impeller changed? When it was changed were any pieces of the impeller missing? Is the oil clean and not have signs of water in it? Has it overheated before? Has the thermostat ever been replaced? Sounds like you need to fix a hot starting issue before we can get to the overheating. Does it crank over good and strong but just not start? Do you have to pump it? When was the last time a complete tune up was done on it? Do you know how many degrees the initial timing is set for? Get set up to do a bucket test in your driveway. Disconnect an intake hose from inside the boat. Generally the strainer(if you have one) or transmission cooler input. Connect another hose to that point that is long enough to reach over the side of the boat to a five gallon bucket. Fill the bucket with water and put the end of the hose coming from the engine into the bucket. Start it up and if your cooling system is doing what it's supoosed to do, it should pretty much suck the bucket dry in 15-30 seconds. Lets start there and see what we got. Then we can move forward. OH yeah, stay as far away from that mechanic clown as you can. He's an idiot. ------------- When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded. Eddie |
Posted By: sptimes2
Date Posted: January-24-2013 at 5:51pm
Thanks again, 75! Alas, the bucket test will need to wait for 3 months (current temp = 5 degrees  )
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Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: January-24-2013 at 6:18pm
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Eddie (Backfoot) is giving good advice. There are 2 problems. 1. Hot re-start and 2. Cooling. Fix #1 first. If it starts fine when cold, then the 2 most common culprits are a leaky carb (flooding the engine) followed by an overheated/failing coil. My bet is on the carb- take the flame arrestor off and look to see if its dripping down the throat after shut down. If it is, then rebuild the carb. Cooling... need some more info on when it overheats. Per your description, it cools fine, then overheats after sitting. Its normal for the engine to heat up after being shut down (after all, the flow of cool water entering the engine has stopped). It should, however, return to normal operating temperatures pretty quickly after starting back up. If it overheats, describe when and how. At idle? At speed? If at idle, does speeding up make the temp go down? The circumstances surrounding the overheat will point you to the culprit... could be an air leak prior to the RWP, a blockage somewhere in the system, a failing impeller, or a RWP seal issue. Cant point you in the right direction without a little more info. ------------- |
Posted By: sptimes2
Date Posted: January-28-2013 at 5:10pm
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Hey all, I was finally able to connect with my preferred boat mechanic. He said the worst case scenario (both heads are cracked) would run me about $1300. He also confirmed that cracked heads are not uncommon when there's been overheating. Does that sound more in line? PS - I haven't ruled out the options the you all have provided me. Just trying to figure out how I'm going to approach this. |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: January-28-2013 at 5:24pm
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That's nice but you still have some diagnosing first. ------------- |
Posted By: backfoot100
Date Posted: January-28-2013 at 7:26pm
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If you can cold start it and run a half hour or more with driving combinations of idling and cruising without any overheating symptoms, I suspect you don't have an overheating problem at all but you haven't answered any of my questions either to try and help you figure out where the problem is. Like Tim(TRBenj) and I have stated. You need to find out what is causing your hot starting issue first and then look at confirming if, how and when it's overheating. You're assuming the worst but haven't confirmed that it has ever overheated in the first place. You have confirmed that your problems start after you can't get restarted when it's warm. I understand that you're trying to figure out what your plan of attack is and that includes figuring out the financial piece of it. Here's some simple numbers to help you figure s**t out. 1) A carb rebuild will cost you about $50 for parts if you do it yourself and could very well fix your problem. 2) $1300 including labor for two heads isn't a horrible price but if you go ahead and do that and you still have the hot start problem, you just wasted $1300. 3) Let's just say that you rebuild the carb, fix your hot start and then confirm that it overheats and the heads are cracked. You can get a set of heads shipped to your door and change them out yourself for about $600 plus a set of gaskets. Several here have done just that. Keep us posted on how things work out for you. ------------- When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded. Eddie |
Posted By: sptimes2
Date Posted: January-28-2013 at 9:06pm
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Hey gang, thanks again for the responses. Sorry, wasn't meaning to blow off some of the questions - for some reason, I keep seeing the 2 problems as related. However, it's clear the mechanical expertise on this forum trumps any that I have, so perhaps I should let go of that. As for replacing the heads myself, see above paragraph. It feels way above my head. OK, about the hot start problem. It turns over fine, and usually fires, but as soon as I give it any throttle, it dies out. Usually after many tries, I am able to give it just the right amount of gas at the right time, and keep it going, but then it runs rough and sometimes backfires. Pulling a skier up in those conditions is darn near impossible. Other answers: It's the original engine, but hours are unknown - gauge hasn't worked for years. I'm lucky if I put 20 hours per summer. I don't know degrees for the timing. I've had the boat for 20 years. I've been struggling with these problems for a couple of years, but they're getting worse. I don't recall when the impeller was last changed, but that's on my list for this spring. However, it will suck a bucket dry pretty fast in the driveway. Oil is clean. Have never touched the water pump. Thermostat was replaced this past summer. Per the advice of everyone, I'm probably going to tackle impeller, hoses, carb, water pump, tuneup this spring, and see where that leaves me. Thanks all! (wish I had come here for advice much earlier) |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: January-28-2013 at 10:11pm
After reading that I'd move the carb rebuild up 2 places on that list,especially if it's a Holley. Holley carbs built before '92 did not have backfire protection and will blow out the power valve causing all kinds of running problems ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: sptimes2
Date Posted: January-28-2013 at 10:17pm
| Thanks Gary, I believe it is a Holley. |
Posted By: baitkiller
Date Posted: January-28-2013 at 10:57pm
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I know this is a DIY group here but sometimes it makes sense to just drop 10 yards and punt. Do something you are good at to make a few extra bucks and hire a good wrench. Watch him closely and learn while your boat gets fixed. Just a suggestion, hope it works out for you. ------------- Jesus was a bare-footer............. |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: January-28-2013 at 11:42pm
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Thats a great idea John but the one he went to says it's cracked heads and wants 2k to fix. What does he do when that turns out not to be the problem? Drop a good chunk of 1k on a carb replacement? Now he's upside down in the boat. Not every area of the country has a plethora of competent boat mechanics like Florida and then find one that will let you bother,I mean watch them? ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: baitkiller
Date Posted: January-29-2013 at 12:40am
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Yeah, I suppose thats true. Bummer. You had better learn quick pal. Summer is coming! ------------- Jesus was a bare-footer............. |
Posted By: baitkiller
Date Posted: January-29-2013 at 12:58am
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I just re -read the entries and feel that i would do some simple stuff first. This is how i would approach it were the boat to magically to appear in my shop. pull the plugs and look for water or rust on the plugs. While out do a compression test. Install new plugs. Replace cap / rotor and points if so equipped. 2) pull the impeller and inspect, replace on general principals. Change the thermostat on general principals. Take a 5/16 nut driver and tighten every hose clamp from the sea valve through the exhaust. test run and look down the carb for flooding or non fueling port. Pull and re-build the carb is problems are found. Somewhere along this line you have either fixed the engine or discovered water intrusion to the internals. What would all these parts cost? 250? maybe? I hope that was more helpful. ------------- Jesus was a bare-footer............. |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: January-29-2013 at 10:51am
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Add to that list a new coil - epoxy filled is best. ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: backfoot100
Date Posted: January-29-2013 at 11:43am
Now you're on the right track!!!! You've had the boat for 20 years and only put on 20hrs./yr and it sounds as though it's had minimal maintenance. You've been struggling with these issues for several years. You have no idea when the last time a tune up was done. Do a complete tune up. Points, condenser, cap, rotor and plugs. Plug wires and coil probably wouldn't hurt either. Even if they check out good. Get the carb rebuilt and properly tuned. I'm guessing that's never been done since you've owned it and 20 years is way too long. It's definitely long overdue. You've stated that the bucket test does empty a bucket pretty quick so I believe your cooling system is OK but definitely go through all the hoses and connections to verify that they're tight and replace any hoses as needed. Like everybody else is saying, use a socket and not a screwdriver. You shouldn't have to replace the water pump but for God's sake replace the impeller if you've never done it. There are seals in the pump that I would also replace if they've never been done. John says $250-$300 but I'm guessing you do al that it may be closer to $500 depending on the labor rates. No matter the cost, it'll be moneyt wel spent and still a hell of a lot cheaper than $1300. I think you'll be amazed at what that does for you. That's gonna make it feel like a totally different boat and I'll bet you don't have any more hot start issues. That is as long as the mechanic knows what he's doing. Then we can look at any possible overheating problems but I'm betting those don't really exist either. Keep us posted. ------------- When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded. Eddie |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: January-29-2013 at 11:54am
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So this running problem does not happen until the boat is shut off? Will it run like a champion all day as long as it isn't shut off? If you give it gas you are probably flooding it with the accelerator pump. Run it get it nice and hot and take a look see down the throat of the carb(not running) making sure the choke is open all the way on its own. A lot of times these carbs will leak fuel out of the front boosters (you can see it drip). I'm curious as to why the mechanic thought water in cylinders. Maybe he didn't know exhaust risers can leak as well. Check the operation of the temp gauge. Fulctuation is usually not associated with overheating. It steadly climbs until it gets in the red zone. ------------- |