Advice buying engine stand
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Category: General Correct Craft Discussion
Forum Name: Common Questions
Forum Discription: Visit here first for common questions regarding your Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=29153
Printed Date: November-24-2024 at 9:45pm
Topic: Advice buying engine stand
Posted By: gR@HaM
Subject: Advice buying engine stand
Date Posted: March-04-2013 at 8:18pm
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As it seems I need to pull the engine and flip it over to fit a new sump gasket, I'm now in need of a suitable engine stand. Im hoping to buy one off the web tomorrow, I guess it needs to be pretty strong to support the weight of the 351 with tranny, does anyone have any advice in terms of what to go for (before I buy the wrong type!!). Thanks :) ------------- '82 Ski Tique |
Replies:
Posted By: gR@HaM
Date Posted: March-04-2013 at 8:43pm
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Would one of these do the job? It doesn't mention that it will tilt/rotate. http://item.mobileweb.ebay.co.uk/viewitem?itemId=370772732053&index=2&nav=SEARCH&nid=64785287859 Presumably I could bolt into the front end of the engine in order to keep the transmission attached?? Thanks ------------- '82 Ski Tique |
Posted By: ArtCozier
Date Posted: March-04-2013 at 8:43pm
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Most engine workstands will reqire you to remove the tranny, bellhousing, and maybe the flywheel. The engine bolts to the stand using the holes that the bellhousing bolts go into. There are other types, but usually much more expensive. Art ------------- "Art" |
Posted By: gR@HaM
Date Posted: March-04-2013 at 8:50pm
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Thanks Art, this is getting worse - why did I unbolt that oil pan!!! So to fit a new gasket I now need to split the tranny, bellhousing, flywheel and remove. Then pull the engine. Is this straight forward for a first timer? will it all bolt back together with relative ease? Thanks ------------- '82 Ski Tique |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: March-04-2013 at 8:59pm
Yes, the bell housing to the block should have dowel pins for location. The trans will have a pilot bore so it will align to the bell housing. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
gR@HaM wrote:Posted By: TX Foilhead
Date Posted: March-04-2013 at 9:02pm
| You're not going to be supporting the tranny, it will need to come off to mount the motor to the stand. I think my stand is good for about 1250lbs. If you're just changing the sump then all you need is to get underneath the motor, I would try to do it with the motor hanging. |
Posted By: backfoot100
Date Posted: March-04-2013 at 10:41pm
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Graham, Don, aka TX Foilhead is right. You can pull the engine and just let hang to replace the oil pan gasket. It is a bit more difficult to work with like that but it can be done. I've done it myself. You can pull the engine and tranny together, let it hang and then remove the tranny and bell housing if need be. It would probably be easier to replace the gasket with the tranny and bell housing out of the way. I found it easier to remove and replace the tranny this way standing at waist level. That sucker is heavy. So you can do it with a hoist instead of a hoist and stand. Another dilemma that you have is that depending on how many hours are on the engine and you have to replace the oil pan gasket anyway, it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to put fresh bearings and crank seals in it. Then if your doing that, you might as well put a fresh oil pump in it too. Total cost for all that would probably be under $200 (maybe a little in the UK) and you're good for a long, long time. Of course to do all that would pretty much require a stand then. ------------- When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded. Eddie |
Posted By: TX Foilhead
Date Posted: March-04-2013 at 11:16pm
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Eddie, I was just trying to give him a good reason to stop, I'm in the middle of a project that could grow until I could easily buy a SAN if I do everything I want. Lol Once you start tearing into the motor there are so many things that you 'might as well do while you have the opportunity'. You came get very far if it never comes of the chain. If I had of left mine in the boat for the cam change I wouldn't be tempted to rebuild it as as a 409, change the carpet or add Sea Dek, switch to an ARE shaft, buy a new prop, I could go on and on. |
Posted By: gR@HaM
Date Posted: March-05-2013 at 6:25am
Great, thanks Pete - I managed to fit a replacement auto gearbox for my landrover discovery (on my own) a couple of years ago, sounds like the 351 fits to the bellhousing in a similar way - hopefully I wont make a balls of it!! ------------- '82 Ski Tique |
Posted By: gR@HaM
Date Posted: March-05-2013 at 6:31am
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Doing the gasket with engine hanging sounds perfect!! This will save me buying a new stand, and also tackling the problem of working out how to move the engine over a gravel track to the back of my house! Would it be worth removing the tranny and bell housing before lifting the engine? Very true point about getting carried away with this project also, in a couple of weeks I will have owned this boat for a year - and have spend a crazy amount of time to get it fit for the water, but I need to find a point to stop working on it and start enjoying it!!  ------------- '82 Ski Tique |
Posted By: gR@HaM
Date Posted: March-05-2013 at 6:40am
This is the lift I have access to from work - hopefully its big enough?.. ------------- '82 Ski Tique |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: March-05-2013 at 8:07am
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You could go red neck....lift the engine and trans out the boat onto some old tyres,take off carb/dizzy(mark timing mark first) and anything that can brake off,then roll over onto more tyres and prop up to work on,I think you have new rocker covers if the old get a dent in...make sure the trans oil fill plug is in tight or your be changing the oil as well. ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: gR@HaM
Date Posted: March-05-2013 at 11:14am
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Thanks Roger, I like your thinking - that will definitely be my next option if unable to do it with engine on the crane. Its (not so) funny you mention marking the timing before removing the dizzy, this is my first carbed engine project.. I didnt realise this when removing the dizzy and have since turned the engine over on the crank to get the harmonic balancer off. I understand that the balancer has an indicator for TDC, but presumably there is more than one rotation of the crank to get this. Is it fairly straight forward to set timing on these engines? I know with the landrover I needed to line up the timing marks on the flywheel against the cam sprocket and crank - is it fairly similar for the Ford V8? ------------- '82 Ski Tique |
Posted By: Waternut
Date Posted: March-05-2013 at 11:31am
I did something like this over the winter. I had the engine out for other work and decided to fix an oil leak while it was out. I figured it needed new gaskets, rear seal, and I might as well replace the bearings. You quickly get into "you might as well replace this/that while you're in there". First it was oil pump, fuel pump, and cam bearings. Then I hear I should get the block cleaned, crankshaft turned or just a new crank altogether, fresh bore, and new pistons and rings. Well since you've done all that, you should machine the heads and block to ensure they haven't warped and a new cam will really wake up that engine...etc. etc. etc. You always have to draw the line somewhere and if the engine currently runs fine and has good compression, my vote is fix what's wrong because these engines are not that difficult to pull. On a side note, I bought the 4 leg harbor freight engine stand to do all my work and it's been good. Initially, I put my engine on the stand without pulling the flywheel or damper plate. If all you're doing is the oil pan, I would highly recommend NOT using the stand. Rotating the engine with the heads and manifolds attached is really hard because the engine is so top heavy. ------------- |
Posted By: Waterdog
Date Posted: March-05-2013 at 11:48am
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1) Unbolt the exhaust manifolds and the trans. Leave them in the boat. 2) Work on the oil pan gasket with the engine on the hoist. 3) I'd pull a main bearing cap or two at least to look at the bearing wear. 4) Stick to your plan & save some money. ------------- - waterdog - http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=3896&sort=&pagenum=2&yrstart=1978&yrend=1978" rel="nofollow - 78 Ski Tique |
Posted By: Waternut
Date Posted: March-05-2013 at 12:22pm
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I pulled the exhaust manifolds in my boat once. I NEVER want to do that crap again!! If you have a helper, it's no big deal. If you're doing it by yourself, forget about it. ------------- |
Posted By: Waterdog
Date Posted: March-05-2013 at 3:42pm
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Exhaust manifolds are easier with help. - BUT - If your alone buy 2 6inch 3/8 bolts and cut the heads off pull 2 bolts out and replace them with your home made studs. Makes it easy to R&R the exhaust manifolds. ------------- - waterdog - http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=3896&sort=&pagenum=2&yrstart=1978&yrend=1978" rel="nofollow - 78 Ski Tique |
Posted By: gR@HaM
Date Posted: March-05-2013 at 7:10pm
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Strange that I actually had no problems removing the manifolds! Other than one of the bolts that needed drilling out. I'm taking them in to work for sand blasting and coating tomorrow they shall soon be like new!! ------------- '82 Ski Tique |
Posted By: gR@HaM
Date Posted: March-05-2013 at 7:14pm
This is definitely my plan of action.. Regarding the silicone sealant, is there a special engine grade or will any automotive gasket sealant do? Thanks (again) ------------- '82 Ski Tique |
Posted By: Dreaming
Date Posted: March-05-2013 at 9:52pm
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Hey Graham, What are you using silicone for? I would try and cut a gasket from rubber or cork or some other gasket material if I couldn't get my hands on a factory gasket. Silicone has it's uses, but I've never had great luck with it on oil gasket surfaces. It tends to leak again pretty quickly, and you have to be really quick about getting the parts together before the silicone "skins". just my .02, I know being outside the US requires special creativity at times, so I understand using a method that maybe not Ideal, but you gotta make it work 
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Posted By: Waterdog
Date Posted: March-06-2013 at 11:27am
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RTV (silicone) is used at the corners of the oil pan. Use black RTV it's oil resistant. I also use it at the ends of the intake manifold instead of the end gaskets. ------------- - waterdog - http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=3896&sort=&pagenum=2&yrstart=1978&yrend=1978" rel="nofollow - 78 Ski Tique |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: March-06-2013 at 12:51pm
Graham,give this a go,its old school but works...... I’m more of a Chevy man here......but i do have a few old ford V8 here....have a look at the engine tag if it’s there or inlet manifold and see if it has the firing order cast in it for RR engine if not it’s on the site, just do a search. Once you know the first cylinder to fire bring it up to 8-10 BTDC on compression/firing stroke(try not to back the crank back from TDC or more as there may be slack in the old timing gear/chain and taking the rocker cover off that side helps to see both valves are shut) read from your new harmonic balancer off the newly fitted timing cover/marker. Hold the dizzy and find the plug lead for the first cylinder firing order.....with the cap on mark the lower body with a sharpie pen centre of the contact by eye. Keeping the drive clean and cap now off...dip drive gear in oil and slide in keeping the rotor pointing at your mark......do not force but you may need to wiggle the rotor to line up on the cam and then the oil pump, you may have to pull the dizzy to tweak the oil pump round to line up, not sure of the drive size on 351 but my old ford stuff is ¼ hex. Once the dizzy is down fully, check you timing marks are still right and the rotor is pointing at your mark on the dizzy and then clamp down. This will get her running for you to tweak the dizzy body when the engine is running. If plan A doesn’t work for you and plan B comes into play.....to roll a engine on tyres, have the engine hanging across the crane legs, tie off a strap/rope to the exhaust closes to the crane and lay over the engine and down under the sump/pan....lower engine onto tyres and hook up strap/rope to crane and slowly lift and steady as you flip, reverse this to bring it back up when finished. Also check if you have the breather on the trans and taped up well before you flip.....my bad. If you do flip or change bearings it is best to prime the oil pump by spinning it with oil in the engine with a battery drill and a long shaft before you fit the dizzy back.....don’t use ¼ socket drive tools as they can get stuck inside or damage the cam gear. ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: March-06-2013 at 1:12pm
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Another tip - to find cyl #1 compression stroke, pull #1 plug & put thumb over hole while turning crank (in firing direction). Stop turning at TDC mark on harmonic balancer & you are lined up. No need to pull valve cover. ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: TX Foilhead
Date Posted: March-06-2013 at 1:17pm
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Getting the dizzy lined back up is no problem, I took mine out many times before I learned to set it at TDC and mark it first. Rogers plan works just fine for getting it back together and running. Not a big issue on a DD, but I like having a remote starter so I can adjust things easily while I crank it over. Even PCM uses dabs of silicon on the gaskets in places, it was very noticeable when I was tearing my motor apart. |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: March-06-2013 at 1:19pm
(The compression stroke will blow your thumb off the spark plug hole). Good advice, thats the way I do it. Or, I line it up on TDC and take my 50% chance that its right... and if its wrong, I move my plug wires around 4 positions.  Like Roger said, no need to be precise on the timing when getting it set up... just gotta get it close enough for the engine to start. Dial the timing in with a light once youre running. ------------- |
Posted By: Waternut
Date Posted: March-06-2013 at 1:35pm
Good idea! If I ever have to do this again, this will be my course of action.
Getting them off isn't the problem. It's getting them on. You use 2 hands to hold the manifold in the right place...then with your third hand, you hold the steel gasket in place and with your fourth hand, you screw the first bolt in place. Sounds simple enough.... The stud approach above sounds like a winner though. ------------- |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: March-06-2013 at 1:48pm
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The stud trick is key. So is using a light coating of 3m spray adhesive on your gaskets so they stay in place while installing. ------------- |
Posted By: Waterdog
Date Posted: March-06-2013 at 2:21pm
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I cut the 2 end bolt holes in the gasket at the bottom to make an up side down U shape(some gaskeks come that way) and slip the exhaust gasket in between the manifold & head. It stays put while I start the bolts, then remove the studs. ------------- - waterdog - http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=3896&sort=&pagenum=2&yrstart=1978&yrend=1978" rel="nofollow - 78 Ski Tique |
Posted By: gR@HaM
Date Posted: March-06-2013 at 6:46pm
Thanks for all the replies guys - dont know where I would be without CCF!!
The gasket set arrived in the post today, it includes a cork 2-piece gasket for the pan and rubber U-shaped seals for where either side of the crank exit the pan (I'm guessing 1 for the tranny end and 2 for the timing cover end). All pieces look to connect together nicely to make a full seal, just to confirm I should apply the black RTV in moderation all the way around, i.e on top and bottom of both cork pieces and all 3 of the rubber U-seals? Sorry if an idiot question but I want to get this done right..  ------------- '82 Ski Tique |
Posted By: gR@HaM
Date Posted: March-06-2013 at 6:53pm
Perfect, this is just the information I need - thanks. It will probably be another month until I'm able to look at getting the engine running, still have plenty to do but am getting closer each day! ------------- '82 Ski Tique |
Posted By: TX Foilhead
Date Posted: March-06-2013 at 6:57pm
| The RTV goes between the pieces, it seals the gaps where more than 1 part comes together (timing cover/oil pan/block). Wouldn't hurt to use a little bit on the gaskets if you want but it's not nessecary. |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: March-06-2013 at 7:02pm
I would not that stuff is messy and if you ever have to remove it again you'll be sorry. The rubber gets nothing but where the rubber and the cork meet you can put RTV in that area. You could use some kind of contact cement just to hold the cork side rail pieces in place so it don't move around on you while you put the pan back in place. Give me a bit I'll see what they say in my Ford book --- ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: gR@HaM
Date Posted: March-06-2013 at 7:11pm
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Ok, thanks. My concern with using it if not required, is that when removing the old gasket there were a number of strings of dried RTV running along the inside of the pan, I dont like the idea of this working it's way up the engine ------------- '82 Ski Tique |
Posted By: Waterdog
Date Posted: March-07-2013 at 9:43am
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Garys got it, use black rtv at the corners of the cork / rubber gaskets. I use some stuff called "HI Tack" on the cork gaskets to hold them in place. ------------- - waterdog - http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=3896&sort=&pagenum=2&yrstart=1978&yrend=1978" rel="nofollow - 78 Ski Tique |
Posted By: gR@HaM
Date Posted: March-11-2013 at 1:31pm
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Thanks for all the advice, I lifted the engine this weekend and replaced the gasket. It also gave me the opportunity to sort all the areas I missed with a paint brush! I just hope I got a good seal and the new gasket doesnt leak.. ------------- '82 Ski Tique |
Posted By: gR@HaM
Date Posted: March-11-2013 at 1:37pm
 ------------- '82 Ski Tique |