Oil Talk..found this
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: General Correct Craft Discussion
Forum Name: Common Questions
Forum Discription: Visit here first for common questions regarding your Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=29503
Printed Date: November-24-2024 at 9:25pm
Topic: Oil Talk..found this
Posted By: Guests
Subject: Oil Talk..found this
Date Posted: April-15-2013 at 2:39pm
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SpeedTalk.com Gm on Zinc in motor oil! Take a look,, Some guy named Rat.. Has some real good stuff,, Testing of motor oil and stuff.. Up to date stuff.. Funny thing he rated Pennzoil 10w 30 tops in his test? Other than that it might be worth your time to check that board out.. SPEEDTALK.com... He seems legit too, |
Replies:
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April-15-2013 at 2:46pm
| 10w-30..pennzoil Ultra that was..got the highest test rating... |
Posted By: GlassSeeker
Date Posted: April-15-2013 at 4:59pm
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but Linda it says that the old used oil protects more than new oil and you change yours at 25-30 hours???? OMG! ------------- This is the life |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April-15-2013 at 7:52pm
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yes... That is when it is changed... Did you see the site I posted? My brother has been chatting with him about this... This guy claims running anything higher than say 10w40 is a not so good thing for the motor... He seems to really be on his game about this stuff... |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April-15-2013 at 7:59pm
| Go to the site and look for the guy called 540 RAT---- He seems like no fool to me! Just not tossing out stuff.. Has done test to many oils,, |
Posted By: GlassSeeker
Date Posted: April-15-2013 at 8:04pm
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Do you think the guys here are not on their game? I'd trust Pete over "Rat" any day. I did look at it and I'm as unimpressed as some of the commenters there. Something he does not address is why oil companies put these additives in the oil in the first place. Should we believe that the engineers at the major oil companies would be adding additives(cost) that was not needed? ------------- This is the life |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April-15-2013 at 8:15pm
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I never said-you guys do not know your stuff. You all seem well schooled. The Rat is not selling anything. Just doing what he does ,from reading his post. His claim is that, there have been certain stuff added to the newer oils that have replaced the high need for zinc.. claiming boosting the level of zinc, does NOT mean better protection. There is way too much stuff he has said, for me to even hope to relay back to you...Way over my head too.. So to clear the record here- You guys do know your stuff. This Rat person,seems to be some sort of oil guy, test and stuff. Just trying to gather info... |
Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: April-15-2013 at 8:28pm
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Can you spell "Snake oil"........... Lotta info out there, so I guess it must be true, if you read it on the Web......... This site is a good place to start your search for oil info and what we choose to pour into our engines........Boat dr ------------- boat dr /diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart /diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April-15-2013 at 8:38pm
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SNAKE OIL?-------------------The person is selling NOTHING on that site. He has test results and other info as well.. I am not here to get into a urination contest,,, you guys win that hands down..lol... HE IS SELLING NADA>>>>>>ZIPPO---NOTHING____ I am not her to contest what you guys use either.. I thought that he had some real good info--- |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April-15-2013 at 8:44pm
| Boatdr... Is this site not on the web as well? So now where are we? |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-15-2013 at 10:15pm
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Lin, When the first talk about ZDDP was discussed on site, I ran the ZDDP question past our lubricant supplier (metal stamping) at work. He blends his own oils and the first thing he said was there is nothing to date (as of 6 months ago) that replaces the lubricity of zinc compounds. I have a feeling Mr. rat hole is not thinking flat tappet. BTW, I have seen first hand what these new oils do to a cam. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: mrinboard
Date Posted: April-15-2013 at 11:20pm
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Ok people The "Oil Subject" Is a hot button on many forums, And everybody has there own opinion. But don't go to a car forum and look for boat advice. This sight has some of the best minds for all things Correct Craft. But that is just my opinion ------------- Dont Hate "ACCELERATE!" |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April-15-2013 at 11:20pm
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Look I am not here to get people fired up! I like you a lot, and you are very helpful,in all matters.. He did talk flat tappets....If you would like to see who and what he is saying.. then go to the site and check it out.. Very informative, well written... He ran test with many oils.. explains stuff. You are a smart man. I can tell. so you would have to check it out, yourself... |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April-15-2013 at 11:25pm
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well is not the engines in these puppies like a car motor ,except they have been marinized? same yes? maybe load is diff than a car.. More friction pushing water then wheels on a road,, yes.. Seemed like he was very well skilled in his talk.. Just saying... |
Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: April-15-2013 at 11:51pm
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This is true, but there is a core group here that will do more than exchange info....... Some will show up Saturday to show you how to do it correctly. "First we learn to do it, then we learn to do it RIGHT" ------------- boat dr /diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart /diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier |
Posted By: HatterBee
Date Posted: April-16-2013 at 12:27am
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To add the Boat Dr's comments... then they teach you how to avoid their misstakes. This is a great site with very knowledgable folks. I want to say thanks!!! ------------- 1977 Ski Nautique Under Re-construction http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=25004&title=1977-ski-nautique-rebuild" rel="nofollow - My Rebuild Thread |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: April-16-2013 at 12:31am
Linda - You are not the first to 'step in it' regarding oil topic  I took that spot: http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9128&KW=zddp&title=boat-dr-shell-oil-question" rel="nofollow - who knew? ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: Foot_Fungus
Date Posted: April-16-2013 at 2:01am
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didn't even bother with the site, but I can vouch that Penz Ultra did finish first among all synthetic oils tested for shear protection(wear)and sludge resistanace in both last year's SAE, penzoil's own inhouse, and Ferrari Testing Labs tests. I'd have to dig around but I think I may even ahve the Ferrari results(I was present for the track testing part). However, this was for 5w-30 specifically, but I'd expext similar results with the 10w. Gotta remember boat engines see more load than car engines do and operate under different cooling dynamics. in a car I would 100% agree anything over 10-40 is harmful or at the very least power-robbing for new automotive engines. With the tolerances today, especially in deactivated cylinder setups, thick oil plays havoc on systems. ------------- '94SN Restoration underway... |
Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: April-16-2013 at 2:40am
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Do you have a clue what you were trying to say, foot, cause I sure as hell don't. Very few of us here own Ferrari, and most could care less about their results with sythetics. Give us real time knowledge of what works best in our antique flat tappet motors. If you can do this please share , if not keep reading, you may learn something, this should get interesting.........Boat dr ------------- boat dr /diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart /diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April-16-2013 at 11:41am
| lol-- I see that--- |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April-16-2013 at 11:53am
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Ok Mr Pete... Now lets place the zddp to the side for now.. In the owners manual.. PCM.. They say either 10w30 or 10w40, I know oil has changed 10 fold since,,, That being said, the weight has remained the same ,YES? I am not here to dis you... Just would like your input as to why the 50? What benefits are to be expected? I understand the 20w= winter flow cold temps outside.. correct? So are you saying that the 50 is better because of the load on these engines? Ty |
Posted By: quinner
Date Posted: April-16-2013 at 12:50pm
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Sheeezz Billy, easy on the fungi, he's just sharing info and Im really not sure what didn't make sense, seemed pretty clear to me?? |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April-16-2013 at 12:55pm
I have noticed if you go against the grain on here, be ready... Some very intense cats looking for mice...LOL 
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Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: April-16-2013 at 1:14pm
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Sorry dude, not looking for mice. But I am willing to share a bit of my marine knowledge with anyone. If you are offended by my posting,SORRY.... There are a few of us here that have seen the results of "modern oils" in flat tappet motors, if you choose to learn on your motor , so be it, but there is a kinder softer way ... There is such a thing as too much info. ------------- boat dr /diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart /diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier |
Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: April-16-2013 at 1:26pm
Excuse me , I thought we were speaking of marine engines , with "old school flat tappet cams"..Modern day roller motors have oil issues also,hence the many choices that are available . My tip for today is "be informed" not only with the printed word, but in asking others what worked for them. ------------- boat dr /diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart /diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier |
quinner wrote:Posted By: ononewheel
Date Posted: April-16-2013 at 1:45pm
 ------------- If we let the professionals do everything it takes all the fun out of youtube |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April-16-2013 at 1:57pm
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ok I see one that looks not so good... Any story behind this? Like oil ,what type. all that?ty |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: April-16-2013 at 1:59pm
 ------------- |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April-16-2013 at 2:01pm
| ok ok ok What is the story behind this? How many hrs on the engine? What type of oil? Please,, ty again! |
Posted By: Waterdog
Date Posted: April-16-2013 at 2:14pm
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Doc’s got it Oil weight isn’t a big deal. The big deal IS flat tappet cams. The cam is cast (soft metal) then SURFACE hardened .010 in (ish) The valve spring MAINTAINS pressure on the tappet/cam surfaces of 50 / 200 psi when the valve is closed/open ZDDP / phosphorous is a high pressure additive that Is needed so the cam doesn’t wear through the THIN surface hardening . Clear as mud now? ------------- - waterdog - http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=3896&sort=&pagenum=2&yrstart=1978&yrend=1978" rel="nofollow - 78 Ski Tique |
Posted By: ononewheel
Date Posted: April-16-2013 at 2:16pm
Not sure on the "first half" of it's life but I NEVER ran a high zinc oil, and I put at least 500 hours on that summer. I used a bulk synthetic blend, and not one mentioned with a high zinc. 10w40. With my rebuild I use nothing but Brad Penn. The way I see it, Rat may be right, Pete may be right, but since I am buying oil anyway I may as well buy one with the high zinc. Period, it is cheap insurance. I also use the weight recommended by the builder. ------------- If we let the professionals do everything it takes all the fun out of youtube |
Posted By: jbach
Date Posted: April-16-2013 at 2:18pm
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^^ unless we know what kind of oil was ran and change intervals and... and... it just looks like a worn out tappet to me. FWIW, i run rotella T 5w-40 synthetic. i used a zddp additive last change. do you think it's necessary? here is a virgin oil analysis of it. 
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April-16-2013 at 2:23pm
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500 hundred hrs in 1 summer? Are you a MOOON SHINER or something? makes sense what you said... so the best zinc level is around 1200 to 1500 I understand... I did call shell this morning and talked to a tech rep--- He said due to proprietary reason,s they do not have the zinc levels on the product;; He said the rotella has 1200 ultra 10-30. synthetic-----------850 Your level is? |
Posted By: ononewheel
Date Posted: April-16-2013 at 2:39pm
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Ah, 500 hours. I'll have that beat this year, easily. Moonshiner? I have far too many teeth. ------------- If we let the professionals do everything it takes all the fun out of youtube |
Posted By: ononewheel
Date Posted: April-16-2013 at 2:41pm
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Brad Penn 1340-1400 ppm ish, depending on the lab. ------------- If we let the professionals do everything it takes all the fun out of youtube |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April-16-2013 at 2:44pm
| lol-just kidding ..... 500 hundred hours 1 season? Are you year around then? |
Posted By: ononewheel
Date Posted: April-16-2013 at 2:51pm
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My last oil change, Penn was on sale. $69 and some change. Cheap insurance. Year round now, that was when I was in the land of Casinos, Wisconsin, and record warmth. ------------- If we let the professionals do everything it takes all the fun out of youtube |
Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: April-16-2013 at 4:12pm
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[QUOTE=jbach] ^^ unless we know what kind of oil was ran and change intervals and... and... it just looks like a worn out tappet to me. QUOTE] I do not see a worn out lifter......I see oil failure That is a prime example of oil failure, first you wipe out the lobe, then the lifter will soon fail also.... ZDDP is a amazing additive. ------------- boat dr /diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart /diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April-16-2013 at 4:45pm
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yes I thought that zddp was fantastic too, Now according to the RAT, and all of his test... adding zddp, reduced the other friction wearing properties of the oil... Why do most oil producers SAY-------------NEVER ADD ANY ADDITIVE what so ever..? |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: April-16-2013 at 4:49pm
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This is the snake oil part - the oil manufacturers design a balanced product - When you add the extra stuff, the oil is off balance. I drank the kool aid & use the high ZDDP stuff too. Seems like cheap insurance. ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: skutsch
Date Posted: April-17-2013 at 1:09am
Andy - GREAT post! Best technical explanation I have seen yet (and I did a ton of research on this two years ago - the old posts are on here somewhere. BTW Brad Penn exceeds the minimum recommended levels (1200 ppm, if I remember correctly) of ZDDP for flat tappet. And the minimum is pretty much the hurdle, after that the evidence is (was) inconclusive on the "more is better" theory. As BoatDr said, there are volumes of evidence that support the use of ZDDP on flat tappet, all the research has been done and presented. Yeah a few "miracle" engines might be out there, but its pretty safe insurance to run ZDDP, may cost you an extra $10 an oil change. well worth it IMHO... ------------- Our http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4669" rel="nofollow - 98 Sport Nautique My Dad's 63 Ski N |
Posted By: Foot_Fungus
Date Posted: April-17-2013 at 1:33am
Doc next time you want to accuse me of cut and paste how bout you re-read the first sentence in my post and then punch yourself in the face a few times and maybe knock that little light bulb back on. I race for Ferrari and Dodge(technically Fiat) so my cut and paste experience is REAL TIME EXPERIENCE. Wanna call me out, I'd be glad to take you for a spin around the track and educate you on oil under race conditions. I had no comment on zddp, nor did I care to enter any sort of debate on it. I merely pointed out that in her original post what she said was true in regards to automotive applications(in particular the penzoil comment and the 10-40 weight comment) in an attempt to clarify what she was reading on the other forum. If anything I was pointing out that that rat guy was infact copy and pasting automotive results and incorrectly applying/inferring them into marine flat tappet applications. I'm sure you have tons more marine experience than I do, but that wasn't ever in question. Take a chill pill and stop being a douche for no reason. ------------- '94SN Restoration underway... |
Posted By: GlassSeeker
Date Posted: April-17-2013 at 3:11am
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Everybody is all jacked up on ZDDP [<:o)] ------------- This is the life |
Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: April-17-2013 at 2:41pm
Sorry to have jacked you up......But your knowledge of high rev, high heat buzz bombs has little to do with the marine standards that dictate a high level of ZDDP. This was not a put down on you , nor your expertise, just saying compare apples to apples and nothing more. Also the cut and paste was not a slam on you,  ------------- boat dr /diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart /diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier |
Posted By: mrinboard
Date Posted: April-17-2013 at 8:01pm
Maybe we should start a thread on frame filters, tubers or wake surfers just kidding You guys rock lots of knowledge being thrown around  ------------- Dont Hate "ACCELERATE!" |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: April-17-2013 at 8:12pm
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How about a thread on anatomy? Regarding barefooting, of course. ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: 65 'cuda
Date Posted: April-18-2013 at 12:50am
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Scott at Cam Research who made my cam said "if you follow the break in properly and use Valvoline VR1 20w / 50" (zddp) he would warranty the cam. That's a pretty good endorsement. ------------- Gary http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=941" rel="nofollow - 1965 Barracuda SS |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: April-18-2013 at 1:49am
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+1 Gary, the guy's would know their own product ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: boat dr
Date Posted: April-18-2013 at 1:56am
For a small added fee, Scott will do the break in for you.......I thought it was money well spent. 500 plus hours on the stroker now with no issues  ------------- boat dr /diaries/details.asp?ID=4631 - 1949 Dart /diaries/details.asp?ID=1533 - 1964 American Skier |
Posted By: TX Foilhead
Date Posted: April-18-2013 at 2:59am
Wow, who would have though the ability to turn a wheel and push some pedals wouldn't qualify you as a petroleum engineer or a mechanic.  Don't know if the CR break in does much, but it sure is nice not to worry about that first start. I'm going to attempt to break mine in as if I need to with break in additive too just to be sure. How long is everyone running that first batch of oil? I'm going to take it down to the ramp for the break in. Wasn'nt planning on taking it off the trailer, just wanted to make sure I had plenty of cooling water. I would like to go for a spin if I don't need to take it back to the house and change the oil. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-18-2013 at 9:04am
+ 2. If you can't believe someone that makes cams for a living, who are you going to believe? Some guy ranting on a automotive speed oriented forum? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Waterdog
Date Posted: April-18-2013 at 9:32am
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I "broke in" my own C/R cam ran it for an hour at 1800/2200 rpm. Changed the oil, ran another hour under 4000 rpm changed the oil. I did do an oil analysis on both oil changes and do one everytime the oil is changed. Only because it's a "perk at work". ------------- - waterdog - http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=3896&sort=&pagenum=2&yrstart=1978&yrend=1978" rel="nofollow - 78 Ski Tique |
Posted By: 65 'cuda
Date Posted: April-18-2013 at 10:28am
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He did break it in with the lifters, my point was, he specifically said vr1. He also noted, the first trip out, run it, no idling around the ramp. ------------- Gary http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=941" rel="nofollow - 1965 Barracuda SS |