Inside motor oil
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Category: General Correct Craft Discussion
Forum Name: Off Topic
Forum Discription: Anything non-Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=29590
Printed Date: January-14-2025 at 5:30pm
Topic: Inside motor oil
Posted By: Guests
Subject: Inside motor oil
Date Posted: April-21-2013 at 1:48pm
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in comparing the 2 oils : VR1.....10w-30 conventional VR1......20w-50 conventional. My first question is this: If 100c =212 degrees If 40c =104 degrees This of course has nothing to do with outside temps.. If I am correct, then what temps are they taking? engine? _____________________________________________________________________ {I have some numbers regarding these 2 oils,I just want to make sure I have this correct to start with... |
Replies:
Posted By: GlassSeeker
Date Posted: April-21-2013 at 2:01pm
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when choosing between 10-30 and 20-50 it is the outside temperature that is considered. Not the temps in the motor. ------------- This is the life |
Posted By: Foot_Fungus
Date Posted: April-21-2013 at 2:19pm
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Yes and no. Generally the outside conditions will influence what viscosity you should run, but the oils are rated based on actual oil temps (0 degress and 212 degrees). In most conversations you are correct the outside temps will influence the decision, because it affects the first number(cold start temps). If you're in Canada obviously you want a lower first number because the colder it is the harder it is for the oil to flow vs. FL where its always hot and your oil is bound to be 70-80 at startup. But excluding extreme weather conditions the majority of an oils life will be spent at operating temps(2nd number) and oil weight choice should be driven off load and oil temp ratings instead of outside temp(within reason obviously). Number before the W is the cold start viscosity, the number after the dash is the running temp viscosity. The higher the number the more resistant the oil is to thin out(2nd number). So the 20w-50 will not flow quite as well when starting up, but will have better resistance to thinning at operating temps. In your boat the more important piece of info is going to be the zddp content. I thought I saw a post showing that there was a higher content in one of the viscosity ranges, though I could be wrong. ------------- '94SN Restoration underway... |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April-21-2013 at 3:02pm
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foot------------- I will need to stay with you! You do race cars.. I remember reading that... Fiat or something? I have my hands full right now with the boys about me not understanding water flow in the PCm engine... |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April-21-2013 at 3:25pm
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Foot Fungus------------ Yes ZDDp is higher in VR1 Conventioal 10w-30 and 20w-50 Then that if Vr1 synthetic of same weight. Conventional around 1400 both ZINC and Phos Synthentic around 1100 zinc and phos. I posted this back on another thread about 3 days ago... |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April-21-2013 at 3:30pm
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Now lets talk FLASH point. in oil: I see the flash pt for 20-50 VR1 is 478 degress compared to the flash pt for 10-30 Vr1 is 413 degrees Conventional oil! Flash point is measured by say-taking a flame source to the oil and seeing at what temp it BURNS off, Hence, internal combustion with the cylinder.. walls.. They say a minium is 400 degrees any flash point below this is not to good,,Sound correct? |
Posted By: GlassSeeker
Date Posted: April-21-2013 at 4:46pm
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not something I've ever considered relevant ------------- This is the life |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April-21-2013 at 6:50pm
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Glass seeker- ok, I guess the question is ,How hot does the inside of a cylinder get? High revving stuff hotter? poor cooling capability of the engine.. I guess many factors, play into this question;;; regarding flash pt numbers.. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April-21-2013 at 7:26pm
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VISCOSITY INDEX...Empirical number which indicates the rate of exchange in viscosity of an oil within a given temperature range. They claim the higher the number the better. keeps your bearings happy they say. Now see the chart for VR1,,See where they Say viscosity index 143 for 10-30 132 for 20-50.. But in temp ranges higher numbers are given to the 20-50 vs the 10-30. I see the test are run in certain temp ranges,,, Yet ......... Viscosity index says higher for 10-30? 
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Posted By: LaurelLakeSkier
Date Posted: April-21-2013 at 7:52pm
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Viscosity Index is a rating of how much the viscosity (thickness) changes with temperature. A straight oil like SAE 30 will have a lower VI than a multi grade like 5w-30. http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/1327/viscosity-index-improvers" rel="nofollow - This page does a good job of explaining it. ------------- The world is full of youth—what we need is a fountain of smart! |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April-21-2013 at 7:58pm
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ty lakeskier. See the numbers on the VR1,, from Valvoline.. I am confused they say the higher the number in In the VISCOSITY index the better.. 10-30 has a higher number next to Viscosty index. The 20-50 has higher numbers in diff temp ranges... Wonder what number to use.. The number next to--VISCOSITY Index or the other Numbers? Ty again for responding.... |
Posted By: LaurelLakeSkier
Date Posted: April-21-2013 at 8:08pm
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This is oversimplifying but if you just look at the numbers - 10W30 has a factor of 3 between the numbers. So when the engine starts cold, the oil acts like SAE10 but when at operating temp, the oil has thinned out to be "act like" to SAE30. The 20W50 has factor of 2.5 since with the oil having the thickness of SAE20 when cold and thinning to 50 at operating temp. The viscosity index is a measure of how much the thickness CHANGES not how thick or thin the oil is. ------------- The world is full of youth—what we need is a fountain of smart! |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April-21-2013 at 8:37pm
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Lakeskier ..Ty again! I understand better... I myself and a family member[brother prefer the lower number 10w30 vs 20w-50.. I see many who like the 50.. Mr,Peter is one of them.. I could not get a answer as to why from him, I decided to learn about oil and diff weights of oil... He just said -50 is better, and then took off for the HILLS on me... Ty again for your time... Lake skier.... 
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Posted By: peter1234
Date Posted: April-21-2013 at 8:46pm
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ive never drained hot oil out of a motor that i couldnt touch so the flash point probably doesnt matter ------------- former skylark owner now a formula but I cant let this place go |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: April-21-2013 at 9:05pm
Sorry Lin but with all your searching on oil, I thought you would understand the concept on multi weights. Mark (Yes, his name is MARK!!!!) explained it pretty good. BTW, I have been holding back on commenting about oil. We have been though the issue so many times!! I told you before, just have your brother take over for you. Don't ask us again. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
eljayrx wrote:Posted By: Foot_Fungus
Date Posted: April-22-2013 at 12:08am
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10/30 is a thinner oil at operation temps then a 2/50. IN older engines the tolerances are usually fairly "loose" compared to modern engines(im generalizing but want to make a point). The thicker oil provides more of a cushion or a barrier if you will between the moving metal components. Thinner barrier translates into the potential for additional wear. In some extreme cases it will translate into leakage where the oil is so thin it leaks past seals and components whereas a thicker oil will resist this(hence why lucas came to popularity to stop smoking from worn out seals/rings). Think of a cup with a pin hole in it. Water would pour right out whereas honey would take forever to leak out. I'm not going to get into the compromise of a multi vs. straight. For the sake of this discussion and to answer your question on why 50 is better I think the above explanation should suffice. IN older engines that see lot of load or have high 'mileage' I would use a thicker oil to give the engine a bit more of a barrier from additional wear. ------------- '94SN Restoration underway... |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: April-22-2013 at 12:34am
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From reading on this site, I understand that boat engines have higher internal temps (including oil) than car engines, due to the constant heavy load. This is in spite of the lower cooling water temp. Therefore, the heavier weight can help guard against oil thin out. ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: GlassSeeker
Date Posted: April-22-2013 at 9:06pm
Just for clarity: Lower numbers="thinner" oil Higher numbers= "thicker" oil So the 10-30 starts out "acting" like thin 10W and as it gets hot it "acts" like THICKER 30W. ...take a look at some 80-90W rear-end molassess, hate the smell of that stuff. ------------- This is the life |