Bad coil?
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Category: General Correct Craft Discussion
Forum Name: Common Questions
Forum Discription: Visit here first for common questions regarding your Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=29924
Printed Date: September-16-2024 at 3:54pm
Topic: Bad coil?
Posted By: Guests
Subject: Bad coil?
Date Posted: May-20-2013 at 5:20pm
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took the boat on a slow cruise,, about 1200 rpm around the lake to look at the homes.. went about 3 miles,, engine started to sound rough, like a slight mis-fire.. So I gave it some gas, hesitated then went.. made top end fine,,, As I slowed down , WHAM,, engine died? Would not re start.. only if I went to start up mode and increased rpm.. Then stall again, waited about 20 mins, wham started up and ran ok.. made it back to the dock. So about 3 hrs later, I tried to re start,, all fine, so, I go out for a fast spin, about 5mins, all just fine.. Next day take the same slow cruise,, wham died, same thing, waited 20 mins made it back to the dock.. I called ,my brother, he thinks it might have a bad coil? Anyone every have this happen? ty.. |
Replies:
Posted By: 75 Tique
Date Posted: May-20-2013 at 6:40pm
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Linda, This is a common symptom with multiple possible fixes. I have experienced it myself. Some always say check the antisiphon valve on the gas tank, but I, personally never believed that to be the situation when it is fine when cool, but not fine when hot. I think an anti siphon valve problem would not be time or temp dependent. other possibility: As you already came up with, coil. Yes they can fail when hot and be ok upon cooling down. Best way to check this is get a new coil, but not install it. Take your lake cruise again, and when it happens, then swap the coil. If you are good to go, then you know you have isolated and cured the problem. In my case it was a bad cap, but I think the crab (flat) caps are more susceptible to mild deformation and hence, bad contacts when hot (as told to me by a supplier.) A standard vertical connection cap may not have that issue. Best bet, try the coil and if that doesn't work, let the diagnosing resume. ------------- _____________ “So, how was your weekend?” “Well, let me see…sun burn, stiff neck, screwed up back, assorted aches and pains….yup, my weekend was great, thanks for asking.” |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: May-20-2013 at 8:34pm
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If the coil is laying horizontal (std) then an epoxy coil will be needed. I used the MSD 'Blaster high vibration' coil & have not had any problems. An oil filled coil will fail if mounted in horizontal position. ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: May-20-2013 at 10:22pm
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Was an electronic conversion installed to replace the points?? |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: May-20-2013 at 10:26pm
I don't agree with this I've heard a lot of responses like this and disagree, My oil filled coil lay's on its side and has run fine for years. |
SNobsessed wrote:Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: May-21-2013 at 12:40am
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Good to know, got my info from the site here somewhere along the way. Do you have any idea what makes them fail? ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: May-21-2013 at 9:41am
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: May-21-2013 at 9:42am
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Posted By: 75 Tique
Date Posted: May-21-2013 at 11:47am
I am not particularly knowledgeable about such things but had my doubts about this generalization as well. My (assumed to be oil filled) horizontal coil hasn't failed yet in 37 years. Maybe any day now. As a rule the advice on here is spot on and helpful, but every now and then (not so much recently, but historically) people would recommend a fix that didn't make sense. For a boat that has run great for years and suddenly failed, people would day, oh its wired wrong, or you need this kind of thing not that kind of thing. Clearly not the case if it ran great for years like that. My favorite problem description on here tho are the: My boat ran good until I did this or that and now it doesn't work. Any suggestions? Not being a motorhead, I pretty much prescribe to the if it ain't broke don't fix it school, so as to avoid that problem. (tho I do do routine maintenance, so don't jump on me about that) ------------- _____________ “So, how was your weekend?” “Well, let me see…sun burn, stiff neck, screwed up back, assorted aches and pains….yup, my weekend was great, thanks for asking.” |
Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: May-21-2013 at 12:27pm
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I'm wondering if maybe oil filled coils, laying on their side, are possibly a little more sensitive to seeing a full 12 volts? If I understand correctly, both the old points distributors and the newer Mallory electronic dizzys use a ballast resister. Somewhere in between there were Prestolite OEM Electronics like mine that don't use the resister. But, there were also the electronic conversion kits. Which, I believe called for full, un-resisted (no ballast resister) voltage. So, then the ballast resister is taken out of the loop. Now, I believe the resister is mainly there to protect the dizzy. But, the coil is also seeing lower voltage in a ballast resisted setup. So, a coil is going along happy seeing, what 8-10 volts?, for years, then all of sudden, wham! 12 volts after an electronic conversion. Many threads talk about ignition wiring, but this one just came up http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=29920&title=pro-tec-ignition-conversion-on-58-pro-boss" rel="nofollow - http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=29920&title=pro-tec-ignition-conversion-on-58-pro-boss |
Posted By: cadunkle
Date Posted: May-21-2013 at 1:52pm
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I had a similar problem last season. after 20-30 minutes of run time the boat would start to misfire, particularly at lower RPM. Would idle perfectly smooth, but 1000-1500 RPM misfired, higher RPM fine. Eventually it would stall out regardless of high or low RPM and would not start for 15-20 mins. Coil felt quite hot. It was a new Mallory Marine epoxy filled coil, which I had got along with some other components troubleshooting another problem. Eventually I ran it until it stalled out and swapped the old coil on real quick, fired up immediately and ran fine. Only had it out a couple times last season after that but did not stall or fail to start as it had with the new coil. So yes, sounds very similar to the problem with a bad coil I had last season. Bring another coil and swap it when it dies to test. |
Posted By: kapla
Date Posted: May-21-2013 at 2:00pm
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flooding carb? ------------- <a href="">1992 ski nautique |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: May-21-2013 at 3:02pm
If you notice in the drawing the distributor gets the 12v it needs from the in side of the resistor but the coil is still getting its power through the resister. |
Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: May-21-2013 at 3:40pm
True, but that's a drawing of wiring for a newer Mallory. I believe the older electronic conversions, bypassed the resister, therefore delivering a full 12 volts to the coil after conversion, like this: 
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Posted By: TX Foilhead
Date Posted: May-21-2013 at 8:09pm
| I questioned SKIDIM about the oil filled coil in the PCM ProTec replacement kit, and it went out in about an oil change or so. Everything new and wired correctly. Maybe its the heat here or I just run harder in rougher water than most, but I knew it would be a problem when I got it. |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: May-22-2013 at 12:11pm
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How you wire your EI conversion depends on if you have a resistor type coil or not. If you have a resistor coil you can bypass the ballast resistor, if you do not have a resistor type coil you still need to run through the ballast resistor. This is all neither here nor there because the OP said she has points. I would check to see if the ballast resistor is bad and over heating the coil. |
Posted By: jackiewdeen
Date Posted: May-22-2013 at 11:30pm
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Been there, done that, My 75SN had an ignition switch wire problem. In trying to find a fix, I changed to a Electronic ignition and a year later a Blaster Coil seems to have been the remedy. The original 1975 coil did not like the idea of no points and would get tired when loaded, Ran great after a cooldown period. but very hot when running rough. Put a compatible resistor with the new coil and she seems very happy now, (Hi, Paul from Mama Deen as well) ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5597" rel="nofollow - 75 Nautique |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: May-23-2013 at 12:16am
| Hey there Big Daddy (and Mama too) hope to see you guys this summer. |
Posted By: merbesfield
Date Posted: June-27-2013 at 1:26am
| Hi guys, here is my issue, which sounds similar to above. Boat literally starts on very first crank, runs well at idle out of no wake, runs well at speed. Upon return to dock and no wake, seems to be skipping or sort of stuttering. Has gotten worse the last two trips. Last trip, upon return, I stopped before getting to my dock to fuel up, boat would not start. After sitting for 20 min it fired up and I made it home. Coil was extremely hot. So... Get a coil and give it a try? Should I run it until it fails and then swap, or just go ahead and swap? My boat is an 84 SN 2001. Thanks for the help. |
Posted By: TX Foilhead
Date Posted: June-27-2013 at 1:49am
| That coil will eventually leave you stranded. |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: June-27-2013 at 12:52pm
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Sounds like you probably have an EI conversion kit in your distributor, bypassed resistor, and a factory (low resistance) coil. A higher resistance (epoxy filled) coil will likely solve your problem. There are many threads on this here, one very recently, that further explain this very common issue. So Linda asked to be removed eh? She's only the second poster ever to be deactivated, the first wasn't by request. ------------- |
Posted By: merbesfield
Date Posted: July-03-2013 at 4:02pm
| Can anyone provide me with some part nos.? Are these coils the same as those for street use on older cars such as Mustang? Napa sells one, part no. IC10SB,$23.50. So is this the correct coil. Don't know if my engine has been converted as suggested above. I know I have points. Will the Epoxy filled coil work either way? If so I would just go for that. Trying to buy one today before weekend. Nothing like waiting til last minute. |
Posted By: ny_nautique
Date Posted: July-03-2013 at 4:47pm
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http://www.skidim.com/prodinfo.asp?number=R117001" rel="nofollow - This is the standard coil for your engine. ------------- - Jeff 1999 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: merbesfield
Date Posted: July-03-2013 at 5:04pm
Yes I know that but trying to cross reference locally. |
Posted By: merbesfield
Date Posted: July-06-2013 at 5:50pm
| Well I put on a new coil and it made no difference, so definitely not the coil. While looking at the motor run, I noticed some sparks traveling down one of the plugs so clearly something is wrong there. So I guess my next step should be wires and plugs. I also determined, which did not even know, that my distributor has been converted to Pertronix set up so its not the points. Can anyone lead me to the correct part numbers for plugs, plug wires, dizzy cap and rotor? Went to local parts house and they were clueless. Can anyone tell me which 351 Windsor would be correct to reference for parts searches at the auto parts store? |
Posted By: TX Foilhead
Date Posted: July-06-2013 at 6:31pm
| Unless you know specific part numbers I've learned from experience to order from SKIDIM, Whitelake, N3 or go to a PCM dealer, Nautique or a long time Supra dealer. Local parts house is usually a crap shoot much beyond oil and filters. Prestolite cap shouldnt be hard to find, don't buy wires unless they're for a 351 marine engine, cars use shorter wires. |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: July-07-2013 at 3:07pm
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Here's the standard cap, rotor and coil. As you can see on the box the coil needs a external resistor so run it through the ballast resistor. http://s256.photobucket.com/user/gun-driver/media/85%20boat%20rebuild/DSC00315.jpg.html" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: merbesfield
Date Posted: July-07-2013 at 5:45pm
| Thanks so much gun-driver. For me the coil on my boat is the one without the resister so I found out after I had bought the one you show here. I did not have my old one in hand and when I got to the boat to swap the new w old, the coil on it clearly said external resister not needed. So off to NAPA I went to swap coils. Not sure if it is why, but my boat has been converted to Pertronix, which I was not aware of. Anyhow, new coil or not, it did not fix the misfire. Next week I will pup the tuneup parts. How about the plugs? |
Posted By: merbesfield
Date Posted: July-11-2013 at 1:04am
| Can anyone help w wires and plugs? Or do these need to be ordered form boat parts house? |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: July-11-2013 at 1:27am
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Plugs are autolight #24, buy them anywhere. I was able to make 80's vintage Ford F150 351 plug wires work. I bought NAPA gold version. ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: merbesfield
Date Posted: July-11-2013 at 1:36am
Exactly what I needed. Thanks very much. |
Posted By: merbesfield
Date Posted: July-11-2013 at 1:43am
| Are the plug boots supposed to be straight or angled at the plug attachment end? |
Posted By: merbesfield
Date Posted: July-11-2013 at 1:48am
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Is this the correct fuel filter for a 1984 SN2001? http://www.skidim.com/prodinfo.asp?number=FRACCS1136 |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: July-11-2013 at 12:47pm
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You'll get more responses if you learn how to link. I that's the FRAM canister element you are correct, I think skidim only carries the one. Other brands make the same element that will fit, try searching its been posted here before. Most seem to entirely change it out for the spin on unit like an oil filter, not sure why though. My plug wires are 90s ------------- |
Posted By: merbesfield
Date Posted: July-26-2013 at 12:58am
SNobsessed or anyone, can you provide any more specific info on mid 80's Ford for plug wires? When I go to the NAPA they are pretty clueless and I am no help bc I don't really know what I need. Thanks for the help. |
Posted By: merbesfield
Date Posted: July-26-2013 at 1:05am
| Also, Advance Auto web site says Autolite #24 is for lawn and garden equipment. |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: July-26-2013 at 8:33am
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It's been 4 years, so a bit foggy. I think I told them 1985 F150 351 engine. Take the longest plug wire from your engine with you, to make sure the new one's have 1 wire at least that long. The set I bought was longer than I needed & I had to cut a few back - they have the terminals there also. Edit- try 1980 year, they look longer http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx/Spark-Plug-Wire-Set-Premium/_/R-BEL700260_0065664978" rel="nofollow - wires ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: Grey Hair Kid
Date Posted: July-28-2013 at 11:01am
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Hi guys, I'll jump in here. I also have an 1984 SN with the same EI and the exact same issue. (by the way Autolite 24 is correct). Cleaned and rebuilt the primary side of the carb and replaced the coil, no difference. I read on here that there MAY be an issue with an oil filled coil on it's side having issues (air bubble, arcing, getting hot) and that a ceramic filled coil is the way to go. However lots of people use oil filled with no problems, but I dropped a ceramic coil in yesterday and I will let you know if anything changes. I have a question as well. I ordered a set of PCM wires at the Nautique dealer. While waiting around I talked to a mechanic there about wires and he old me the wires on the new boats carry a lot of resistance. I happen to have my old 7mm PCM wire with me and it measured 0.6 ohms of resistance. Then we tested the new wire and it had 388 ohms of resistance. I didn't want the new wires, Dealer called PCM, they just said it was the right part number and didn't know anything about the original wires and the resistance. Anyone know about that issue? |
Posted By: audiodude
Date Posted: July-28-2013 at 11:36am
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Here is an interesting article from Magnecor about spark plug wires. http://www.magnecor.com/magnecor1/truth.htm ------------- 1989 Correct Craft 2001 In the words of Milton Berle: "You can lead a man to Congress but you can't make him think" |
Posted By: merbesfield
Date Posted: July-28-2013 at 11:56pm
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Gun-driver, is the Standard AL483 the correct dizzy cap for the Prestolight cap for my 1984 SN2001? From the pictures it looks like it does not have the screw down flanges that mine has. Maybe the pic was a stock photo or something. Thanks for the help http://www.rockauto.com/dbphp/x,catalog,154,partnum,AL483,d,STANDARD_MOTOR_PRODUCTS_AL483.html" rel="nofollow - Rockauto site I think I have determined that my dizzy definitely has the screw down Prestolite version and has been updated with Pertronics Electronic Ignition. So if anyone can help me with the part no for this I would appreciate it. I realize I can order this from one of the boat parts suppliers, but was hoping to source it local for future simplicity. |