Prop shaft came loose
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Boat Maintenance
Forum Discription: Discuss maintenance of your Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=30100
Printed Date: November-15-2024 at 12:15am
Topic: Prop shaft came loose
Posted By: merrittarnold
Subject: Prop shaft came loose
Date Posted: June-03-2013 at 5:12pm
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Out of the hole, the engine revved and there was no forward motion. Shaft did not break, it just slipped out of the coupling. Now I need to put it back but I have some questions. There are indentions where the two coupling screws were just pressed into the side of the shaft. And when I felt in the inside of the coupling, none of either shaft screw extended into the coupling, so I assume they were sheared off. Should one of the these screws have been in the keyway? If so, what does the screw look like and where can I get a replacement? Also, why are there two screws? ------------- There are motorcycles; and there are Harley Davidsons. There are tractors; and there are John Deeres. There are ski boats; and there are Ski Nautiques! |
Replies:
Posted By: hotboat
Date Posted: June-03-2013 at 5:21pm
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The screw points go into 2 dimples in the shaft and the shaft and coupler both have a key way slot. There's a good chance your coupler is trashed, Pete will tell you more ------------- Brian |
Posted By: TX Foilhead
Date Posted: June-03-2013 at 5:39pm
| The coupling is shot if the shaft fell out. The alignment is also suspect since the shaft fell out. |
Posted By: Air206
Date Posted: June-03-2013 at 5:40pm
  ------------- https://tinyurl.com/y6t5e3bu" rel="nofollow - 04 Air206 http://tinyurl.com/9urzgls" rel="nofollow - 91 Barefoot 78 SkiTiq |
hotboat wrote:Posted By: merrittarnold
Date Posted: June-03-2013 at 5:52pm
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The alignment was good. Prop turned easily by hand. What is the keyway for if the coupling had a keyway too? Does it have the male version of the keyway for the shaft to slide onto? ------------- There are motorcycles; and there are Harley Davidsons. There are tractors; and there are John Deeres. There are ski boats; and there are Ski Nautiques! |
Posted By: hotboat
Date Posted: June-03-2013 at 6:40pm
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The key works the same as the key in the shaft/prop end ------------- Brian |
Posted By: merrittarnold
Date Posted: June-03-2013 at 6:52pm
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My brother in law explained the key to me. (For anyone searching, the key is a square shaped rod that fits in the grooves of the shaft and the coupling.) Found half of the broken key in the back. I took apart the coupling and it looks good. Shaft looks good except screws were broken off. Are replacement screws a common enough item? ------------- There are motorcycles; and there are Harley Davidsons. There are tractors; and there are John Deeres. There are ski boats; and there are Ski Nautiques! |
Posted By: merrittarnold
Date Posted: June-03-2013 at 6:54pm
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It looks like the key handles all the torque and the screws keep the shaft from moving out. ------------- There are motorcycles; and there are Harley Davidsons. There are tractors; and there are John Deeres. There are ski boats; and there are Ski Nautiques! |
Posted By: TX Foilhead
Date Posted: June-03-2013 at 7:08pm
| The key most likely handles little of the torque, the zero clearance fit does that. In forward the shaft is trying to push a hole though the engine so it has to get pretty wallowed out for it to fall out the back. |
Posted By: storm34
Date Posted: June-03-2013 at 8:10pm
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Hard to believe mine held. Reid noticed it first up at Tim's, seemed like something was slamming into reverse. Come to find out the shaft loose in the coupler. Set screws were the only thing holding the shaft in the coupler. http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/jj532/chrismars515/2D3704B1-F2AF-4822-81E4-D11D01AD1EB9-5949-00000246A14C5997_zpsd39146f3.mp4" rel="nofollow">  ------------- |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: June-03-2013 at 8:26pm
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Merritt - You will need to measure both the shaft OD & the coupler ID to determine if these parts can be reused. Take 3 measurements (120 deg apart) with a micrometer on the shaft OD, then average them. Likewise for the ID of the coupler, except you need an internal mic. A machine shop can help you measure these if you don't have access to the gages. You need the shaft average to be .001 inch bigger than the coupler ID average (press fit). ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-03-2013 at 9:30pm
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Merrit, The comments are correct. Your coupling and maybe even the shaft is TRASH. Of course the prop shaft turned easy. The coupling was so fretted that the shaft was loose. The coupling is a heat shrink fit. It's a .000" to a - .0005" fit. The key does NOT handle the torque. The interference fit handles most of it. Your coupling was so fretted that you sheared the key!!! Tell me how you checked your alignment. By just turning the prop shaft to see if it turned easy? Hopefully your brother in law didn't tell you that's how it's done! Bad alignment is what trashes couplings. You say the coupling and shaft look "good"??? Measure like Chris has suggested and get back to us. BTW, a good alternate to a single taper shaft is the double taper ARE system. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: merrittarnold
Date Posted: June-04-2013 at 12:07am
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Well, last time I checked the alignment I used the gauges suggested here and it was aligned perfectly. I wasn't going off of just the turning by hand. No, I don't have the tools to measure the ID and OD of the coupling and shaft. All the marinas were closed today but I'll have someone look at it in the morning for suggestions. ------------- There are motorcycles; and there are Harley Davidsons. There are tractors; and there are John Deeres. There are ski boats; and there are Ski Nautiques! |
Posted By: TX Foilhead
Date Posted: June-04-2013 at 12:49am
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I'm sure it's not the first time someone fixed something the previous owner missed or did wrong. Alignment isn't the easiest concept to grasp or fix correctly. At least your going about fixing it the correct way, I'm sure most people would jus put it back and call it good. I would take it to a machine shop, the marina is probably going to send it to one and tack on something for their time as well. If there's a harbor freight close their tools are cheap and measure as good as anyone's if you feel like doing it yourself. I've actually checked of their stuff at work against much nicer and more expensive stuff and it always comes out accurate, just wouldn't want to use it day in and day out. |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: June-04-2013 at 2:08am
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Also pictures of events like this are worth a thousand words. If you can post some pics of the shaft and coupler it would help with the diagnosis. You maybe wasteing your time and money trying to put it back together. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-04-2013 at 5:53am
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Merritt, Don is correct that the alignment can be difficult to grasp for some. We have had some just try to fit the .003" feeler gauge between the coupling halves without loosening up the bolts holding the halves together. What were the measurements when you checked your alignment with the feeler gauge? Unless the marina/mechanic is well versed with inboards, I would not trust their opinion. The machine shop is a better idea. If you take the shaft and coupling to one of them, make sure you tell them the coupling is a heat shrink fit. Please keep us informed of your plans. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: merrittarnold
Date Posted: June-04-2013 at 11:41am
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I have pics but need a web guru to give me permission to post. ------------- There are motorcycles; and there are Harley Davidsons. There are tractors; and there are John Deeres. There are ski boats; and there are Ski Nautiques! |
Posted By: ny_nautique
Date Posted: June-04-2013 at 11:52am
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Sign up for a free photobucket.com or flickr.com account. Upload the pics and then use the "Share" option. They will give you the code to post here. ------------- - Jeff 1999 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: June-04-2013 at 12:11pm
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You don't actually need live approval you just aren't doing it correct. ------------- |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-04-2013 at 7:46pm
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A code to post pictures? Unless this is a very recent site change, Kevin (HW) is correct. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: merrittarnold
Date Posted: June-05-2013 at 8:59pm
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New coupling same shaft. Idle speed it was smooth but when under mild speed it is pretty rough. I didn't have my gauges with me to align it. Got the gauges from home and I will do a thorough alignment tomorrow morning; weather permitting. Anything else I need to check? ------------- There are motorcycles; and there are Harley Davidsons. There are tractors; and there are John Deeres. There are ski boats; and there are Ski Nautiques! |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-05-2013 at 9:10pm
"mild speed pretty rough"? What was the bore of the new coupling and the diameter of the old shaft? Was the shaft egg shaped? Is the new coupling heat shrunk onto the shaft. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: merrittarnold
Date Posted: June-05-2013 at 9:25pm
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It was a 1inch coupling. Shaft is not egg shaped. Flat front with keyway. Coupling has two set screws. Each 120 degrees around from keyway. Not heat fit. ------------- There are motorcycles; and there are Harley Davidsons. There are tractors; and there are John Deeres. There are ski boats; and there are Ski Nautiques! |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-05-2013 at 9:41pm
Merritt, You are on your own. Sorry but many tried to give you advice but you seemed to have ignored it. Of course it's a 1" shaft but again, the fit is a heat shrink. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: baitkiller
Date Posted: June-05-2013 at 9:43pm
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get ready... here it comes... ------------- Jesus was a bare-footer............. |
Posted By: TX Foilhead
Date Posted: June-05-2013 at 10:03pm
| No, there it went. |
Posted By: GlassSeeker
Date Posted: June-05-2013 at 10:17pm
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wow, post on here asking for help, get help, ignor help and do exactly what told not to do. you can lead a horse to water... ------------- This is the life |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: June-05-2013 at 11:30pm
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Merrit. Heat shrink fits means the coupler has to be smaller than the shaft, requiring heating the coupler to several hundred degrees expanding it to get it on the shaft. If it went on without heat the shaft is smaller than the coupler and will come apart again putting you back at your first post. ------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: merrittarnold
Date Posted: June-05-2013 at 11:37pm
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Look guys, I apologize. I'm a school teacher with three kids who like to ski. I am not a mechanic. Nor do I have loads of money to spend on one. In the past you guys have helped me replace the steering cable, fix an overheating engine, rebuild a carburetor, align a shaft prop, decide how to handle a broken fuel gauge, give suggestions on towers versus extended pylons, and how to fix several routine issues with a thirty-five year old boat; and I thank you all. Everybody usually responds in a matter of minutes instead of days and have been patient with my amateur attempts sometimes explaining things in plain language I can understand. I usually get access to a lake house for two weeks a year and spend half the time keeping the boat running. I'm not complaining because I love getting out of the classroom and getting my hands dirty rather than just doing the easy thing of selling a classic Ski Nautique and buying some stupid plastic boat like the Seadoos and Sunbirds others buy.(I think you guys know what I mean.) I have very limited assets and can't just shell out hundreds of dollars every time I go out on the water. In previous years I have had plenty of help from the experts here. I normally search every forum post first so I don't ask questions already explained elsewhere. So, please, if you are willing to explain to me what I should do and how to do it like most of the Grand Poobahs have done in the past then I appreciate the help. I need it in simple language to a guy who has never messed with a shaft before. However, if you feel the desire to answer with "you're just doing it wrong" or "you can lead a horse to water" or some other unhelpful condescending response then please stay out of the way and let the guys who are willing to take their valuable time and actually help me to understand do the replying. I'm doing the best I can with what I have. Now, I took the coupling to a veteran boat mechanic and machinist. He told me where to go to get the right coupling. I got a coupling made for a Ski Nautique identical to the one I took off. I don't know what it means to be heat shrunk. Is a heat shrunk coupling different than the coupling I took off or is it a process for mounting the new coupling? I want to do it right if I can. Do I need to remove the prop and shaft completely in order to fasten it to the coupling or can the coupling be replaced without removing the shaft? What length square rod key do I use and how do you properly seat it in the coupling and shaft simultaneously? These are the things I need help in understanding. Call me whatever insult you want, I guarantee it's not worse than what my elementary students have called me. But if you are the patient mentor type, willing to help a newbie amateur, then you are acting like the true professionals who have helped me in the past. Thank you. You are the men I have grown to truly respect and come to for help. ------------- There are motorcycles; and there are Harley Davidsons. There are tractors; and there are John Deeres. There are ski boats; and there are Ski Nautiques! |
Posted By: merrittarnold
Date Posted: June-05-2013 at 11:49pm
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Thank you Overmyhead. Does that mean a previous owner put in the wrong kind of coupling and shaft and I need to start over? Where do I need to go to get someone to do it right? The previous posts said not to take it to the marina. ------------- There are motorcycles; and there are Harley Davidsons. There are tractors; and there are John Deeres. There are ski boats; and there are Ski Nautiques! |
Posted By: GlassSeeker
Date Posted: June-06-2013 at 12:13am
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no one is calling you anything, no one is trying to hurt your feelings, only attempting to get the point across, I think if you read the thread from the beginning the answers are mostly there. yes these things do cost money but following the advise here can be much cheaper than winging it. slow down take a breath and maybe don't ruin a new coupler, if the shaft is in fact jacked up(fretted) worn, not round, not in tolerance, and since you have not heat shrink fit it on the shaft then that says the shaft probably is bad. measure it. ------------- This is the life |
Posted By: skitique179
Date Posted: June-06-2013 at 12:15am
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No expert but I believe that the heat shrunk coupling is a coupling for a non-tapered shaft that you must heat up before installing. I have read posts where people heat them in the oven and then install them. It may be possible to install while the shaft is in the boat but would definitely be easier with the engine removed so you can slide it in the other way. Maybe somebody else will chime in... From experience with this issue though I would highly recommend the ARE shaft system. You will save yourself a bunch of time and hassle. Yes its expensive but that is why they call it a boat... Break Out Another Thousand Hole in the water that you throw money into Etc... |
Posted By: skitique179
Date Posted: June-06-2013 at 12:34am
| Also I agree with Glass Seeker. Nobody was trying to insult you or give you a hard time. Just slow down do some research on what these guys are saying and go from there. These guys know there stuff and their advice will help. Yeah sometimes the diagnoses isn't fun for you or the credit card but is is all worth it when you get to enjoy the boat... |
Posted By: merrittarnold
Date Posted: June-06-2013 at 12:47am
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Thanks guys. I will look for a new shaft/coupling set to get it right. ARE seems advised by several guys. I also found Peter's video on shaft/strut alignment. Now THAT was helpful. I wish I had found that earlier. I was trying to figure how I was going to heat the coupling when he talked about the oven. ------------- There are motorcycles; and there are Harley Davidsons. There are tractors; and there are John Deeres. There are ski boats; and there are Ski Nautiques! |
Posted By: kytom2
Date Posted: June-06-2013 at 1:02am
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Merritt Max Shaft Diameter = 1.0000 Min Coupling Bore = .9995 resultant fit .0005 tight. Min Shaft Diameter = .99975 Max Coupling Bore = .99975 resultant fit size on size. These are just representative numbers to get to what Pete was saying about the "shrink fit". Actual shaft diameters and bore may be different. Just trying to get you visualizing what people are saying.Its just math. ------------- |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-06-2013 at 6:03am
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Merritt, It's possible that both the machinist and the mechanic you talked to aren't versed in inboards and the need for a heat shrink fit or if they are maybe you didn't follow what they had to say. Reread the thread as suggested. If you mentioned the heat shrink fit to the machinist, he should immediately understand. It's still possible to do the repair the damage for not much money. Get another coupling half but undersize or "blank bore". Take the shaft and coupling half to the machinist and have him bore the coupling .000" to -.0005" matching the old shaft diameter. As Tom mentioned, all shafting has tolerances plus as mentioned, you old shaft may be worn as well. Even brand new and couplings are bored to match the shaft for the heat shrink fit. You can't just go by the shaft being a 1" diameter. The key can be found at the hardware store but have the machinist look at the keyway in your old shaft. Since you chewed up your key, the keyway in the shaft may be chewed up as well. If so, it can be machined oversize and then the machinist can make a key to fit. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: merrittarnold
Date Posted: June-06-2013 at 9:37am
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Peter, I think I understand now. Can a machinist get a new coupling, bore it and refurbish the shaft for less than $400? I was resigned to just order the set from Skidm. ------------- There are motorcycles; and there are Harley Davidsons. There are tractors; and there are John Deeres. There are ski boats; and there are Ski Nautiques! |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: June-06-2013 at 10:10am
Merrit, not to beat you up too much or come across as preachy, but everything you need to know was posted several days ago. Pete told you what the problem was and Chris told you how to check and see if any of your old parts can be saved:
Like you said, this website is full of smart people willing to donate their time to help you out... but you have to hold up your end of the bargain! As a teacher, surely you understand that the student shares part of the responsibility in the learning process. If you dont understand something, dont ignore it- ask for clarification. No one is talking above your head on purpose. Dont understand what a "heat shrink" or "interference fit" is? Ask! ( http://lmgtfy.com/?q=interference+fit&l=1" rel="nofollow - Or you can google it ) Dont have the tools that you need to perform the checks described? Ask for a description and we'll tell you where to get some that wont break your budget. http://www.harborfreight.com/6-digital-caliper-with-metric-and-sae-fractional-readings-68304.html" rel="nofollow - 6" Digital calipers for $16.99 If you determine that you cant save your parts, we'll remind you that you can http://www.skidim.com/partnerwelcome.asp" rel="nofollow - save 10% on SkiDIM orders . We'll also give you the information you need to determine the proper shaft length if you buy new... I would NOT recommend ordering a shaft the same length as the one you removed (it is likely too long). ------------- |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: June-06-2013 at 10:22am
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Merritt - Kudos for sticking with it. You are learning a new skill set, something you can pass onto your kids. It sounds to me like the current shaft has been beat up. The easy thing to do now is to buy a new ARE shaft. They are much easier to remove at the next 'incident'. I live in a heavy industry town & haven't found a machine shop without a high setup fee. ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: backfoot100
Date Posted: June-06-2013 at 11:21am
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Merritt, Now you have the general idea for a single taper shaft and coupler which is what your old one was. Here's the basics for that shaft/coupler combination. I'll try and dummy it down for you as you requested. You should not be able to fit the shaft and coupler together. The shaft will be noticably larger than the coupler. If the shaft can be inserted into the coupler by hand both are probably junk but taking it to a good machinist who knows something about inboard prop shafts will help to determine if one of them may be fixed or resused. The clearances have been discussed already. Generally, they're junk and just replace both. Chances of fixing are probably not worth the price. Heat the coupler in an oven to at least 200-225 degrees for at least a half hour. Maybe even 45 minutes. If you have a freezer big enough, put the shaft in a frezer for at least an hour. Two would be even better. Now comes the tricky part. Take the couopler while it's still hot and the shaft while it's still cold and fit them together with the slots and key properly aligned and they'll shink/expand together. You will obviously need gloves and please be saftey conscious. Now you have another problem. You probably fitted them together on a bench someplace. Now you have to get the shaft back in the boat but you probably didn't think that far ahead. The only way the shaft will go back in the boat now is by removing the engine and transmission which is another thread entirely and probably something well beyond your abilities in the timeframes that you've allowed for yourself not to mention the equipment needed to do this task. Some here have been able to put the shaft/coupler together in the boat but it's obviously much more difficult and needs probably several other pairs of hands to accomplish. Timing is of the esscense when doing this so you need to plan accordingly or remove the engine/tranny. Your choice. Now with the shaft coupler installed in the boat, you can go through your alignment procedure as you've found elsewhere. What we generally recommend instead of going through all this stuff is purchasing an ARE double taper shaft and coupler. These are easliy put together in the boat. You don't have to remove the engine or tranny. There is no heating of the coupler, freezing of the shaft or any of the other issues associated with a single taper shaft as they are fit together like the prop fits on the other end of the shaft...a taper fit. Hense the name...double taper shaft. Very easy, very fast and very simple. They are however, more expensive. So there you have it. Hope this helps you to understand things a bit better. ------------- When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded. Eddie |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: June-06-2013 at 12:41pm
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So a new member of my ski club was telling me how he welded the shaft to the coupler on his friend's Centurion because the set screws wouldn't hold it in anymore... ------------- |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: June-06-2013 at 12:48pm
Talk about overkill... JB Weld would have worked just fine.  ------------- |
Posted By: merrittarnold
Date Posted: June-06-2013 at 12:53pm
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Blackfoot, you would make a good teacher. You just answered a lot of my questions. I was trying to understand what an ARE coupling must look like in order to heat shrink it onto a tapered shaft. Definitely sounds better than the single taper. I will search on here to find out how to take off the prop (some special tool I think). Will the ARE system come with the replacement parts in the strut and where the prop comes through the hull or is that some other part I need to purchase or are the originals okay? I just hate to order it, get it home, then realize I need something else. Also what prop lehgth to I order? (1979 Nautique) ------------- There are motorcycles; and there are Harley Davidsons. There are tractors; and there are John Deeres. There are ski boats; and there are Ski Nautiques! |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: June-06-2013 at 1:17pm
I forgot to mention, he did that on the first "repair" in the worn out keyway when the set screws came loose. Boat owner said the engine spun but no forward movement. This repair failed during reverse and introduces the prop to the rudder. Talk about hack job! ------------- |
Posted By: GlassSeeker
Date Posted: June-06-2013 at 1:51pm
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ARE--there is no heat shrink fit of anything=way easier. Get the prop off? Prop puller is what to search for...borrow if you can. SkiDIM can help you figure out your shaft length and whatever else you might need to complete the job. new packing for the shaft. you are going to need to be patient and determined. it may take a couple of orders to get all you need or to get it right. that's just how life is. It might take 4 orders/shipping etc. strut bushings are separate items. If you can do this yourself you can save a ton of money. It's not easy to find good inboard mechanics. Alot of places will take your money($100hr) and not do as good a job as you yourself could do. Like the guy Hollywood is talking about who broke out the arc welder and "fixed it" LOL. ------------- This is the life |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: June-06-2013 at 1:55pm
They'll get you close, but I would adjust their measurement (most likely based on the original shaft length) in order to minimize the prop to strut clearance. Shoot for 1/2". It was often way beyond that from the factory- and it will vary from one boat to another. Minimizing this clearance gives you the best performance and reliability, and since ARE makes each shaft to order, it wont cost you a dime extra to get a custom length made for you. ------------- |
Posted By: ArtCozier
Date Posted: June-06-2013 at 1:57pm
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I can't take time to read this entire topic, but I did notice your question about the setscrews in the coupler. You cannot use "Just any bolts." Setscrews have a special end of them designed to bite into the shaft. It is like a little circle and is somewhat sharp. They are also made of very hard steel. If you go back with the same type of installation, you need to go to a good hardware store or to an industrial supply to get your setscrews. If you buy a new coupler it will come with one. I have several good used couplers if you want to save some dollars. PM me if you do, because I don't read posts very often. Art ------------- "Art" |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: June-06-2013 at 2:19pm
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Merritt - Not doubting your determination to get this done, but if you disclose your area maybe a veteran CCF'r is in your city & can stop by to give you some pointers. ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: backfoot100
Date Posted: June-06-2013 at 3:09pm
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This is one of those things that I like to call the "snowball effect". One little thing (or not so little thing) snowballs into something much more complex. Trust me....it's a part of owning a boat and why people can't understand our obsession with them. Definitely plan on replacing the shaft packing rope. Get the teflon or graphite stuff. Seeing as you have the shaft out we normally recommend replacing the strut bushing too. That one can also be a pain in the ass to remove but if you don't, it'll come back and haunt you shortly after you get everything back together. SKIDIM can help you get the right stuff on both counts. There is a post on here someplace that has FAQ in it and hyperlinks to posts that give you direction on these two specific tasks. If you can't find it, maybe someone can put a hyperlink here for you. After you finally get everything done, not only will you have a much better understanding of your boat but you'll appreciate it so much more knowing that everything was done right. It's still so worth it when you're finally able to enjoy your new found skill set with your family. That's where the real obsession is at and what those of little faith just don't understand. It is just money after all.  ------------- When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded. Eddie |
Posted By: ny_nautique
Date Posted: June-06-2013 at 3:49pm
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Yeah can also be called a "how far down the rabbit hole do you want to go" situation. You can do it the (not so) quick and (not so) easy way or you can do it all. The point about the rudder packing is a good one. And the ARE suggestion is good too. It will cost you more but it is piece of mind and a lot less hassle. The press fit on the coupler isn't a fun job and as was said, it is easier when the engine is out. When the engine is in the way, you have to thread the preferably cold shaft through the strut and mate it with the very hot coupler. You could have the shaft in the strut and envelop the end of it in ice packs instead of putting it in a freezer, as most people wouldn't have a freezer large enough. ------------- - Jeff 1999 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: HatterBee
Date Posted: June-06-2013 at 4:30pm
Chris makes a good point here. You never know when someone is close by! ------------- 1977 Ski Nautique Under Re-construction http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=25004&title=1977-ski-nautique-rebuild" rel="nofollow - My Rebuild Thread |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: June-06-2013 at 4:30pm
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In lieu of cooling the shaft, I just heated the coupler on the hot grill for about an hour. It slid right on. ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: backfoot100
Date Posted: June-06-2013 at 5:34pm
Yes, Chris I know that it can be done without cooling the shaft, athough having it cooler just might give you the couple extra seconds you need before it's too late. Especially if you've never done anything like this before. I like to err on the side of caution. I do like the idea of putting the shaft through the strut and shaft log and then packing the end of it in ice too. ------------- When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded. Eddie |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: June-06-2013 at 5:47pm
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An excellent Minnesota winter project. Ice not needed. ------------- |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-06-2013 at 7:27pm
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Merritt, I agree with Chris - just keep moving forward and ask questions. I'm sorry for my comment about giving up on you but, it seemed to me you just weren't reading our comments. If you can handle the extra cost, I also recommend the ARE system. I'm currently installing one now. It sure beats the heat shrink. For cost comparing, give Billy or Karen a call at My Correct Parts. 318 386 2825 I'm still ROFLOL'ing about the welding of the coupling to the shaft. I wouldn't doubt that hacker tried the JB weld before the welding. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: forvicjr
Date Posted: June-07-2013 at 2:20am
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Merritt, I purchased a good prop puller. I would also like to inform you and everyone here that I am willing to let anyone here who needs it to borrow it. All I ask is the borrower pay for the ride and return it in good working order. I posted here a while back to borrow one with no offers, so I figured I would start a loaner program on the one I purchased. Its my contribution for all the help I recieved here. Also for future reference, this forum is great but sometimes you have to be thick skinned and filter comments that might or might not be sarcastic. Good luck with your boat.. ------------- “Tact is the ability to step on a man's toes without messing up the shine on his shoes.” ― Harry S. Truman |
Posted By: 70CC
Date Posted: June-07-2013 at 11:44am
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Well this discussion got me to check the shaft and coupler on the '63 and guess what, I can slide the coupler on and off. The shaft dia is 0.992 and does not appear to be damaged from wobbling in the coupler, the diameter is the same if I measure a few inches from the end of the shaft. My guess is that someone replaced the shaft and re-used the original coupler which was matched to a larger shaft? I think someone mentioned you can buy a new coupler with an undersized hole and have it machined. What is the initial size - I hope my shaft diameter is not too small. -Phil |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-07-2013 at 7:29pm
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Phil, Buy a 4" diameter by 3/4" bore and have it bored to match your shaft. After he bores it, he should press the coupling on the shaft and then chuck the shaft up in the lathe. taking a light "shim" cut on the coupling face will ensure the face run true to the bore. BTW, while you have the shaft out, set it up in V blocks and check it with a dial indicator for straightness. . Your machinist can do it. Don't forget checking the taper at the prop end for straightness. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: merrittarnold
Date Posted: June-08-2013 at 12:32am
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I'm in Athens Georgia. Took my boat ,"Summer School" by the way, to Athens Marine. The owner not only loaned my a prop puller , he went out and helped me take it off. He is ordering a double taper for me. Watched Pete's video about alignment again today. Saw my error in checking alignment. Didn't loosen the coupling bolts to check(missed that somehow) with feeler gauge. Checked today; not cool. I had my 12 year old watch the video with me and now he really understands. Might try and get brother-in-law to watch it too. Have another issue. What's the proper way to remove the rudder in order to get the shaft out and in? No wobble at all in the strut so may not have to replace that bushing, I hope. ------------- There are motorcycles; and there are Harley Davidsons. There are tractors; and there are John Deeres. There are ski boats; and there are Ski Nautiques! |
Posted By: TX Foilhead
Date Posted: June-08-2013 at 1:03am
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The shaft may not wobble in the strut. Once you have the shaft out you should be able to look and see if is is wearing straight or not. Mine looked pretty good until the shaft was out, then it was obvious it was running through the strut at an angle. Theres a bolt in the top of the rudder and a pinch bolt off to the side, that's it. You might have to put a jack under the boat and lift it up off the trailer a little to get the rudder all the way out. That depends on how much room you wave to work with between the prop guard and the rudder. If your close to the lake it may be easier to just slide it back on the trailer a little. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-08-2013 at 5:56am
Considering the bad alignment, I'd say you will need a new cutlass bearing too. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-08-2013 at 7:45am
Merritt, PM me on what he is charging you. The mark up with many marinas is pretty big. I'd hate to see you paying too much especially since you are on a budget. You should have called Billy or Karen! Again, you aren't taking our advise!
------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: merrittarnold
Date Posted: June-08-2013 at 9:47am
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Oh the alignment was off enough to measure it in fingers rather than feelers. It was probably a quarter to half an inch on the starboard side. I know you said Billy and Karen, but I'm a "buy local" when I can kind of guy. School teacher. I get paid with local tax dollars. He's a friend who advertises not be undersold. I told him the price I would get at Skidim and expect him to match it. He's ordering from them anyway and pretty much letting me have access to the tools I need. This time is a matter of principle. I'll still let you know the price. ------------- There are motorcycles; and there are Harley Davidsons. There are tractors; and there are John Deeres. There are ski boats; and there are Ski Nautiques! |
Posted By: merrittarnold
Date Posted: June-18-2013 at 12:35pm
Anyone wanna buy a boat?  Okay, the new shaft came in yesterday. (The A.R.E. is a beautiful work of engineering art, by the way.) Installed the shaft and began on the alignment. Mine is the Commander engine which is even tighter around the motor mounts. But the motor mounts are way too loose, I fear. The rear of the engine is shifted all the way to port in the motor mounts and the lag screws don't have enough bite to hold it firm once it's aligned. (I couldn't see how badly it was shifted because the washers were covering the holes.) I think the stringers are too far gone. I could get thicker/longer lag screws and see if it gets enough torque, but the stringers need to be replaced overall, anyway. I guess bigger screws couldn't make it worse, and the worst I could do is push the stringers that last inch into the grave. 1. Hull is great. 2. Engine is very strong. 3. Steering is one finger easy and smooth. 4. Brand new shaft. 5. Good prop and rudder. 6. Stringers significantly rotted in places. How difficult is stringer replacement? Can I do damage elsewhere by using larger lag screws to test stringers under motor mounts? B.O.A.T.? ------------- There are motorcycles; and there are Harley Davidsons. There are tractors; and there are John Deeres. There are ski boats; and there are Ski Nautiques! |
Posted By: merrittarnold
Date Posted: June-18-2013 at 12:54pm
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Just searched posts about stringer replacement. Someone mentioned using angled metal for motor mounts. My stringers are mostly rotted in the back. Under the motor is the strongest place. Is using angled metal on three sides of the stringers to give motor mounts enough support a justifiable repair? Or would that just be spraying Lysol on a pile of dog poo on the living room floor? ------------- There are motorcycles; and there are Harley Davidsons. There are tractors; and there are John Deeres. There are ski boats; and there are Ski Nautiques! |
Posted By: GlassSeeker
Date Posted: June-18-2013 at 2:06pm
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Merritt, Sorry to hear of this development. figure out how to post pics, if you had done that earlier we might have picked up on the rotten stringers alot sooner since getting it to align will be next to impossible with rotted stringers/loose lags. if you post some pictures, advise will be forthcoming. ------------- This is the life |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: June-18-2013 at 3:35pm
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Merritt - You can bolster it with alum. angle for this summer & then tear into it after the ski season. If you tear into it right now, you might get it done about then, but at least you will have nice weather for working on it (small consolation). You would take a pretty big price hit selling it with bad stringers. ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: vondy
Date Posted: June-18-2013 at 4:03pm
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You could pour some epoxy in the engine mount holes then set your lags in that as a temporary fix for the rest of the season. Maybe sister in a patch. The stringers are going to take you about 10x longer than you think so I would wait and start on them later or start now and except the fact you won't be back on the water this year. Just make sure you alignment is sturdy enough if you decided to run her the rest of the year or you'll cost yourself more money. You'll also cost yourself money if you try to rush the stringers. Take your time ------------- http://correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4645&sort=&pagenum=1 - 69 Mustang HM |
Posted By: backfoot100
Date Posted: June-18-2013 at 4:04pm
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Merritt, If you know anything these boats, it's that any one of them older than a '92 will eventually need new stringers. A very, very select few may get away from the dirty deed depending how they were used and stored. It's just a fact of life. Many members here have been through it. Most every one of them say they never want to do it again, but then there the few who actually pick up another project boat and go through the whole ordeal again. It's a time consuming chore but one that can save yourself thousands of dollars if you do it yourself. Many members here attempted it with virtually no skills and was able to complete it with our encouragement. I know probably not what you wanted to hear but a very satisfying projet when it's completed and you know it was done right. ------------- When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded. Eddie |
Posted By: ny_nautique
Date Posted: June-18-2013 at 4:51pm
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Merritt - I don't think you ever mentioned what year/model it is... what is it? ------------- - Jeff 1999 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: TX Foilhead
Date Posted: June-18-2013 at 4:58pm
| He's in Georgia, the weather is not nice for doing stringers now and probably won't be until sometime in September. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: June-18-2013 at 7:43pm
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Merrit, Understand that bolting reinforcement to the stringers or pouring epoxy down the lag holes is just temporary. yes, it may get you through the season but keep in mind where all your problems started. How's you strut to log alignment? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |