Trying to isolate whats burning ignitor/coil
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Boat Maintenance
Forum Discription: Discuss maintenance of your Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=30669
Printed Date: November-18-2024 at 1:23am
Topic: Trying to isolate whats burning ignitor/coil
Posted By: Plan B
Subject: Trying to isolate whats burning ignitor/coil
Date Posted: July-09-2013 at 9:56pm
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Hello all, First, I would like to say thank you for such an amazing forum! This will be my first post as I have been able to search and find all other inquires/answers without the need to ask. I have officially signed up with story/photos of my pride and joy but am currently waiting on correctcraftfan to review and accept my write-up. I have an 1981 with a Ford 351 Commander. I'm fully aware of the points vs. pertronix debate but, I'm willing to give them one more shot due to fact I'm being sent a replacement pertronix II combo (item# 91582). I believe the error is most likely on my side vs. placing blame on pertronix. I have burnt through two pertronix I coils/ignitor, both sparked up and ran great for about 3 hours run time before leaving me stranded. A few things I have learned or feel are important... The rpm gauge is shot and does not work, with the new replacement I plan on leaving the rpm sending wire disconnected. I feel there maybe an issue with the wiring...(+) from ignitor goes to (+) on coil to a 4 way splice that combines a (+) wire to the carb choke, a wire runs to the (S) on the voltage regulator, and a wire that runs to the ignition. We use accessories without the boat running such as the stereo, I believe the ignitor/coil are burning up due to this. What can I hook the (+) from the coil to that will only turn on when the motor is actually started and cut off when the motor stops. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Ryan |
Replies:
Posted By: 65 'cuda
Date Posted: July-09-2013 at 10:21pm
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If you leave the ignition key on in order to run the accessories, you have about a 40 percent chance that the distributor rotor will come to rest in a spot where the coil is being energized, this will overheat the coil and trigger. The wires you list on the positive post of the coil are OK. Make sure you run the accessories on a circuit that is not tied to the ignition. Also check the voltage at the coil with the engine running. What is the primary resistance of the coil? ------------- Gary http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=941" rel="nofollow - 1965 Barracuda SS |
Posted By: Plan B
Date Posted: July-09-2013 at 10:42pm
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Thanks Gary for the quick reply, I will re-wire the the (+) from my 6 gang accessory box directly to the fuse box vs. the current ignition switch position tonight. I should be receiving the new coil/ignitor tomorrow and will post voltage at the coil once she's started along with primary resistance. Thanks again! |
Posted By: backfoot100
Date Posted: July-10-2013 at 10:53am
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You could always replace the ignition switch with one that has an ACC position and wire the radio to that (just like your car). Just put it on ACC when the engine isn't running and you want to listen to the stereo. ------------- When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded. Eddie |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: July-10-2013 at 11:41am
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Or wire the stereo to your nav light switch ------------- |
Posted By: Plan B
Date Posted: July-10-2013 at 1:12pm
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I just replaced the ignitions switch, if I would have known this prior, I would have opted for one with an ACC option. My nav light switch has been re-wired to the 6-gang rocker switch board  Thanks for the knowledge fella's, hoping to receive new ignitor/coil within the next few hours...of course the water is like glass... |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: July-10-2013 at 1:28pm
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You can always go directly to the battery as well. ------------- |
Posted By: Plan B
Date Posted: July-10-2013 at 5:08pm
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Ok, re-wired all my accessories to run independently straight from the battery (fuse box) vs. there original position from the ignition switch. FYI, I initially daisy chained accessories to ignition thinking this would prevent unwanted battery drainage...lesson learned. Installed new pertronix II ignitor and coil (0.6 ohm). Not super savvy with multimeter so I'll explain in detail what I did and what I got. With no key in ignition.. Primary test - Set to Ohms, (-) lead to (-) post on coil, (+) lead to (+) post on coil, meter was jumping from 000.4 to 000.6 Secondary test - Set to Ohms, (-) lead to center of coil, (+) lead to (+) of coil, meter read 9 I'm hoping this is the fix to what was causing my coil/ignitor to burn up. If it is great, although, I still find it bothersome knowing that if the key is accidentally left in the "on" position how easily it is to burn up the system. There must be a way to eliminate this. The pertronix II does state, "Senses startup and develops more energy for quicker, easier starting. Built in reverse polarity and over current protection shuts down the system, preventing component damage." I hope this will also help in my situation vs. the pertronix I system which did not do this. Boat starts and runs beautifully! Hopefully for more than 3 hours this time!!! |
Posted By: 65 'cuda
Date Posted: July-10-2013 at 5:58pm
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With a .6 ohm primary resistance in the coil, you may need a ballast resistor, Check with pertronix. Run the boat then feel the coil, it should be warm but not hot. You have the same danger of burning up the coil with the points system if you leave the key on and the points happen to be closed. I think the ignitor II has some protection built into it. ------------- Gary http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=941" rel="nofollow - 1965 Barracuda SS |
Posted By: 65 'cuda
Date Posted: July-10-2013 at 6:09pm
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With the key on, set your volt meter to DC volts in the 20 volt range and touch the positive lead to the positive side of the coil, and the negative lead to the engine block, what is the voltage? ------------- Gary http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=941" rel="nofollow - 1965 Barracuda SS |
Posted By: Plan B
Date Posted: July-10-2013 at 8:00pm
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Phew...I got back to the dock... So, took the boat out for a spin, ran great for about an hour, then stalled. After turning everything off and letting everything cool, including my self, luckily she started back up. Coil was hot to touch way beyond warm. Gary, just went out to check, with it running it's at 14+ with key in the on position it was at 12.4 I went to restart it to double check, no spark...hopefully protection mode is doing its job. Calling pertronix now. |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: July-10-2013 at 8:13pm
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What do the installation instructions say about circuit resistance? ------------- |
Posted By: 65 'cuda
Date Posted: July-10-2013 at 8:44pm
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I think you will need a ballst resistor you want to limit the current(heat) in that ignition circuit to 8 to 10 amps. You are 22-24 amps. Get a resistor in that circuit. You need another .75 to 1.00 additional ohms of resistance. ------------- Gary http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=941" rel="nofollow - 1965 Barracuda SS |
Posted By: Plan B
Date Posted: July-10-2013 at 9:02pm
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Petronix guy says I do not need a resistor... He had me run a test, run a ground wire from block to negative on coil. He wanted voltage at coil while engine turning and with on position. with on position I was reading 11.5v While turning I was reading 9.2v Gary, I trust your judgement and at this point would be more than happy to give your recommendation a shot. Is this something I can pick up locally, if so what specifically am I looking for? Seems like another new coil may be on the list also. |
Posted By: Plan B
Date Posted: July-10-2013 at 9:45pm
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Hollywood, I do not see any mention of resistance..only a resistor which is to remove it if there is one, I do not have one. Going to purchase new plug wire, plugs, and cap, just in case something is causing a spike. |
Posted By: 65 'cuda
Date Posted: July-10-2013 at 10:03pm
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I don't know, if Pertronix says you don't need the resistor...the arithmeticsays you are putting aa lot of amps through that circuit. The evidence says your coil was really hot and now you have no spark. Your local auto parts store should have a ceramic ballast resistor in stock. You won't hurt anything by adding the resistor, what you are doing now is not working. ------------- Gary http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=941" rel="nofollow - 1965 Barracuda SS |
Posted By: Plan B
Date Posted: July-10-2013 at 11:42pm
Not much of an update (got rained out) but, after I got back from buying new cap, plugs, and wires, she started right up. Happy to see that the pertronix is atleast going into protection mode like it claims. Now hoping that tune-up will be the fix for the coil overheating. Seem so close yet so far away...I just want to go skiing... 
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Posted By: Seals
Date Posted: July-11-2013 at 1:39am
| I've been having the same issue with my 79 commander which has a petronix ei upgrade in the points type dist. It's wired correct and I've tried with & w/o ballast resistor as well as internal and external coils. Just pulled distributor and having it rebuilt with points installed. After being stranded many times and spending a small fortune on coils, I plan to keep spare points and condenser on board for a quick change if ever needed. |
Posted By: Plan B
Date Posted: July-11-2013 at 2:44am
| Sorry to hear that Seals, it's extremely frustrating to say the least. It seems to have everyone stumped that I have talked to. I have been eyeing the DUI distributors but fear that this problem will carry over into that as well. With the money I have dumped so far I could have easily afforded one that's for sure. Seals please respond back with your results, I'm curious to see how it turns out. I hope my last few hail mary's pay-off tomorrow. |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: July-11-2013 at 2:50am
Well I hope you believe in miracles.
Throw away the Pertonix crap or put a ballast resistor or wire in before feeding the + side of the coil. ------------- |
Plan B wrote:Posted By: Plan B
Date Posted: July-11-2013 at 3:37am
| Ballast resistor is one of my hail mary's, I will throw the pertronix crap away if I can't figure out how to fix what I got first. |
Posted By: Plan B
Date Posted: July-11-2013 at 6:32pm
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Spark plug wires were pretty old, maybe they were causing the coil to over-heat. After replacing spark plug wires, plugs, and new distributor cap all seems well so far. I ran her for about and hour out in the open water then ran her at idle for about two hours at the dock without the coil over heating. Yesterday, it had over heated by now. I bought but did not install resistor, wanted to do things one at a time in order to know what's causing/caused the problem or it would bother me not knowing. Thanks you guys for your input, will update if it fails again, otherwise I'm a happy skier! |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: July-11-2013 at 6:56pm
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And all you did was change the plugs? What was the old gap and what's the new? I've also heard, but not confirmed (tuber), that an incorrect rotor-plate gap can overheat a coil. http://www.hot-spark.com/Installing-Hot-Spark-Prestolite.htm" rel="nofollow - This seems to be the most logical instruction sheet for an EI conversion I've seen. ------------- |
Posted By: Plan B
Date Posted: July-11-2013 at 10:39pm
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I changed the plugs, plug wires, and distributor cap. From talking to others old plug wires could be/been the cause. Previous cap and plugs all seemed fine but changed them anyway. I used autolite 24's gap .50ish not sure of the old plug gap. That is a great write up, saved right to my favorites! |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: July-12-2013 at 12:46am
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Spark plug gap should be .035 inch. Maybe that is the problem. ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: wwchevy
Date Posted: July-12-2013 at 2:30pm
"Using a coil with too little primary resistance can cause the ignition module to overheat and misfire until it cools down again or fail, voiding the warranty." I actually have the Hot Spark EI conversion on my last 3 boats with no problems. HW is correct about the instructions. Start at the top and go step by step with the digiatl multi-meter. That will tell you weather you need a ballast resistor in the system or not. Someone had put an Accel coil on my current boat and I switched back to the stock coil because the Primary resistance was too low on the aftermarket coil- about 1.0ohms instead of the minimum of 1.5ohms. I run the ballast resistor because my coil states that it requires an external resistor and when I checked the voltage as stated it was within spec with the external resistor in place. Go back to the basics and good luck. ------------- wwchevy 1989 Barefoot Nautique |
Posted By: Plan B
Date Posted: July-12-2013 at 3:55pm
Thanks for the info, going to drop the gap now. |
Posted By: 65 'cuda
Date Posted: July-12-2013 at 4:30pm
+1 YES, YES, YES. Good find on those instructions. Fix your plug gap then follow the steps! ------------- Gary http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=941" rel="nofollow - 1965 Barracuda SS |
Posted By: merbesfield
Date Posted: July-26-2013 at 1:34am
| I would like to jump in here. I have had my boat, an 84 SN2001 for three years and other than changing oil and plugs once it has run flawlessly until just recently. It does have a Pertronix setup and the coil says it does not require external resister. My boat started skipping a touch upon idling back to the dock. An earlier post led me to believe that maybe the coil had gone bad. I swapped it w a new one and it runs exactly the same, so not the coil. While looking at the motor while it was idling, I noticed sparks jumping down one of the plugs from the boot to the base of the plug. So I figure I need wires. I will do plugs at the same time. When I ran the boat last week after changing the coil, it, the coil was extremely hot. Plan is to change plugs, wires, dizzy cap and rotor. Anything else? If system is performing well, how hot should a coil be? Too hot to touch? Warm? Burning hot? And last question, Autolite #24 plugs gapped at .035 as mentioned above, correct? Thanks for all the help, Mark |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: July-26-2013 at 8:27am
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Yes on Autolite 24 @.035. Coil should not be hotter than the exhaust manifolds. If it is, you need a ballast resistor (look under the breaker cover at rear of the engine, you may already have one that was disconnected). I think you can put some dielectric grease in the wire boot to prevent arcing, you may want to try that before replacing the wires. ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: Plan B
Date Posted: August-28-2013 at 11:35pm
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Update: Pertronix II ignitor system lasted longer that the Ignitor I unit but ended up leaving me stranded only after a few months of use. Maybe it would have lasted longer with a ballast resistor but Pertronix instructions are to not use one. I have since purchased and installed a Mallory Marine Unilite Distributor PN# YLU554DV and have been running strong since, fingers crossed for the long run. "I" would steer clear of Pertronix electric upgrade to anyone thinking about going down this road, on this application at least. I spent an ample amount of time on here, with Pertronix customer service, checking and rechecking everything with voltage meter and such, not to mention wasted lots of money! Save yourself the time, hassle, and money. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-29-2013 at 7:00am
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Go back to a point set. A EI conversion IS NOT a upgrade!! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: DrStevens
Date Posted: August-29-2013 at 7:30am
| I agree with Pete, per his advice in past posts, I removed my EI and went back to points. Everything has been working great since! |