Neutral Safety Switch... or Cable Adjustment?
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Engine Repair
Forum Discription: Engine problems and solutions
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=30803
Printed Date: November-24-2024 at 7:12pm
Topic: Neutral Safety Switch... or Cable Adjustment?
Posted By: boardersdad
Subject: Neutral Safety Switch... or Cable Adjustment?
Date Posted: July-17-2013 at 5:36pm
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1984 Ski Nautique 2001 Engine Model PRD WR R10 Pleasurecraft Marine Right-Hand Rotation from Rear 351 CID -- 255 h.p. Warner Velvet Drive Model 10-17-003 Direct Drive (1:1) Mallory YLM554DV Distributor Conversion Technically this is a tranny switch question, but I'm putting it in Engine Repair. One of the issues we had on vacation was the boat would not even click when the ignition key was turned to Start. We tracked the voltage to the feed side of the neutral safety switch (NSS) on the transmission, with no voltage going through it. Put the key in Run and used a screwdriver to jump solenoid hot (A) to start (S) to start engine (in neutral). Shifted briefly into reverse then neutral then forward then neutral, then shut down. All good on restart. Happened one more time during the trip and the kids were amused at my son having to do the "redneck start" trick. Is this most likely the switch needing cleaning (I read the thread about breaking off the little tang), or the switch needing replacing, or the shift cable needing adjusting (where do I find those instructions)? Thanks. Steve |
Replies:
Posted By: Morfoot
Date Posted: July-17-2013 at 6:25pm
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Here's a link to check your rigging. If everything is rigged right and you still have issues then it's probably a failed NSS once you use a volt meter to determine its bad. http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=26601&title=shift-cable-adjustment-pcm-123-and-morse" rel="nofollow - Shift Cable Adjustment ------------- "Morfoot; He can ski. He can wakeboard.He can cook chicken.He can create his own self-named beverage, & can also apparently fly. A man of many talents."72 Mustang "Kermit",88 SN Miss Scarlett, 99 SN "Sherman" |
Posted By: 74Wind
Date Posted: July-17-2013 at 10:49pm
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Mine was adjusted properly but it would still occasionally not respond/start, perhaps linkage a bit worn after 39 years. I then determined this was only..if the last motion was R to N (docking). Now before starting I just tap/wiggle to forward just a bit and back to N and it fires up every time. Simple solution for me, just a thought. ------------- 1974 Southwind 18 1975 Century Mark II |
Posted By: boardersdad
Date Posted: July-17-2013 at 11:51pm
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Jeff, that is really interesting. I'll talk to the kids and see if they remember the shift sequence when the problems occurred. Tim, I want to get the shift cable adjustment process correct. The thread you linked to gives two or three procedures (which seem similar). I'm assuming you are pointing me to the post by Gary S. He is specifically answering Greg's question about a 1968 Mustang. Is this the same procedure for a 1984 Ski Nautique 2001? Here is that post:
It would be GREAT if someone (with more experience than me) could post that procedure with photos, or even a video, because as Alan said, it can be a little hard to understand the first time (and I'm always hesitant to open up Morse controls). Thanks guys, I'm learning! Steve |
Gary S wrote:Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: July-18-2013 at 12:09am
Well I'm certainly no expert Steve. I got so disgusted with the one I had that I went and found an original set of twin stick controls for mine  I would assume that Alans method will work for an 84 since at the time he owned an 81 which must be the same.------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: Morfoot
Date Posted: July-18-2013 at 12:25am
Steve, in that post if you look at what I posted it's how to rig the shift cable. I don't imagine they changed much if at all from a 84 to a 88. ------------- "Morfoot; He can ski. He can wakeboard.He can cook chicken.He can create his own self-named beverage, & can also apparently fly. A man of many talents."72 Mustang "Kermit",88 SN Miss Scarlett, 99 SN "Sherman" |
Posted By: boardersdad
Date Posted: July-18-2013 at 7:33pm
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Hi Tim, yes, I agree. When the heat breaks here we're going to have a look. Our boat shifts nicely into forward, but I think the throttle is coming up just a bit before she drops into reverse. So I figured I ought to consider Alan's procedure which was posted by Gary (and I quoted above), as that would rig the throttle and transmission. But I'm chicken to mess with the Morse control! I found the http://www.correctcraftfan.com/Downloads/Morse_MV-2_Owner_Manual.pdf" rel="nofollow - Morse MV-2 Owner Manual and want to study it some more. Some of the Morse threads on here talk about how tight things are to work on--I'm hoping I only have to work on the control from the front to complete Alan's procedure (?). Thanks. Steve |
Posted By: boardersdad
Date Posted: August-02-2013 at 2:49am
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OK, we got the cables rigged properly at the tranny and carb. We didn't do anything with the Morse control cable ends. My son felt the thread length at each cable end and they were about right, so we left it all alone. I'm curious--how would you work on that control... do you remove the handle and the three Phillips screws on the cover? The cables are behind the wall, though. The location of the transmission cable connection end was dead nuts on, so no change there. Just put it back on. The location of the carb cable connection end was off a small amount--I had to loosen the end two turns and retighten the locknut. The play in the ball joint almost made it unnecessary, but I wanted things aligned as good as could be. We'll see how the throttle times with the shifting when we take it out. We'll also see if we still have the trans neutral safety switch problem. The ignition feed wire to the switch was bent badly at the crimped connection, so we cut it to good wire and replaced the crimp connector. I doubt that was the problem, as I measured 12V at the feed side during the problem, but we'll see. Thanks. Steve |
Posted By: Morfoot
Date Posted: August-03-2013 at 7:13pm
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Steve if you're still having some issues with the Morse Control unit and wanna tear it down then look at this thread as well. Chris (aka storm34) did a great job describing (with pics)a teardown and rebuild of a MV-1. Read the thread and the manual and you should be good to go. http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24751&title=mv1-stepbystep-teardown-clean-and-assemble" rel="nofollow - MV-1 Rebuild ------------- "Morfoot; He can ski. He can wakeboard.He can cook chicken.He can create his own self-named beverage, & can also apparently fly. A man of many talents."72 Mustang "Kermit",88 SN Miss Scarlett, 99 SN "Sherman" |
Posted By: boardersdad
Date Posted: August-04-2013 at 5:42pm
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Wow, Tim, that is a great thread. Chris did an awesome job documenting that process. We need the "How To" forum! |
Posted By: boardersdad
Date Posted: August-11-2013 at 9:30pm
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We went through the cable rigging procedure. Now we've found that we still have the transmission neutral safety switch problem--sometimes the trans switch does not pass 12V when trying to crank, even though the Morse control is in neutral (with the shift disengage button pulled out). Sometimes Jeff's (74Wind) suggestion to move the shift lever into/out of gear prior to starting helps, usually not and I end up bypassing the switch with an alligator clip cable. I checked the http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=27356" rel="nofollow - CCF FAQ and do not see a thread on replacing the transmission neutral safety switch. I remember reading that if the little lever (or something) was not engaged properly and the new switch was tightened down, you could ruin the switch or something inside the transmission. I do *not* want that! So now I am looking for advice from those who have replaced this switch. I have the Warner Velvet Drive Model 10-17-003 Direct Drive (1:1) transmission. I'll probably do it this Fall, unless I get my courage up before then. |
Posted By: boardersdad
Date Posted: September-02-2013 at 10:59pm
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OK, time for an update and more questions on this neutral safety switch. The SN saw a lot of action over the long weekend. The work my son and I have been putting into it, with the knowledge support from you guys, is paying off... except for one glitch, the boat ran **great**. The glitch was the darn NSS again. I ordered a new NSS and we installed it (with new o-ring) before the weekend. I had my son use Q-tips to clean the slot/divot that the switch ball rides in. He got some darkness on a few Q-tips, but no solid grime or dirt, really. It looked pretty clean. Over the weekend, on the 3rd start, the brand new NSS was open with the shift control in neutral (& shift disengage button pulled out). This happened 2 more times in about 6 starts before I worked around it. Symptom: NSS will sometimes be open when the shift lever is in neutral. What we've done: 1. Rigged shift and throttle cables per procedure above. 2. Replaced NSS & o-ring (did not remove cover; just removed old and installed new). What we haven't done: 1. Rebuild Morse control (and don't want to unless this really is the problem--it seems to work fine). 2. ??? Any ideas would be appreciated. Thanks. Steve |
Posted By: boardersdad
Date Posted: September-05-2013 at 1:33am
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ok not so long-winded... Rigged cables Replaced NSS The new NSS still has the start circuit open sometimes with the lever in neutral (and knob out). What to do next? |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: September-05-2013 at 8:09am
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Steve, Did you Ohm out the old NSS to see if it was closed in the neutral position before replacing it? It sounds like you still need to do some cable adjustment. Don't become a "parts changer". Test first! BYW, where are you in Wis.? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: baitkiller
Date Posted: September-05-2013 at 9:18am
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Steve, sometimes stuff wears out. How old are the cables? As they wear the cable will develop more free play making the neutral selection (middle of play) larger. Most people just wriggle the handle a bit and not kill themselves over it. I admire you trying to get it right. ------------- Jesus was a bare-footer............. |
Posted By: Morfoot
Date Posted: September-05-2013 at 9:46am
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If the cables are rigged properly and he replaced the neutral safety with a new one, and you still have sart issues you've got a open in the wiring somewhere in the start circuit. Possibly a intermittant ignition switch???? Time to start wringing out the wiring. Check all connections to be sure they are tight and even clean the contacts if necessary. I agree with Pete in that a test of the old NSS should have been done first but since you bought a new one then I say Ohm out the old one and if it checks good then you have a spare. ------------- "Morfoot; He can ski. He can wakeboard.He can cook chicken.He can create his own self-named beverage, & can also apparently fly. A man of many talents."72 Mustang "Kermit",88 SN Miss Scarlett, 99 SN "Sherman" |
Posted By: boardersdad
Date Posted: September-05-2013 at 7:56pm
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Pete, I agree with you in general about not being a parts changer. In this case, though, the boat is 30 years old, a new NSS was 18 bucks, an o-ring was 89 cents, I was having trouble with the old NSS, I didn't have a spare and wanted one, and to me it's a serious safety issue. Whether it was the switch or not, I was going to change it out given its age. I checked the old one with an ohmmeter and it tests fine, although it does not "feel" exactly the same when pushing the ball in with my finger--I assume the internal spring has weakened a bit. The old one is in our container of spare parts we keep onboard. This boat is being used differently than many of the old pros' boats on here--it's primarily driven by my teenage kids and a few of their friends (all passed the state boating exam and all get stern instruction from me on how to operate this boat). So I don't mind a few bucks when it comes to safety issues. We're located in Grafton, north of Milwaukee. We boat on Big Cedar near West Bend, on Park Lake near Pardeeville, on the Wolf River / Fox River chain near Oshkosh (Poygan, Winneconne, Butte des Morts, Winnebago), on the Mississippi River, occasionally on Lake Michigan (swells 1 ft or less), and on various other inland lakes. John, you might be right about the cables. I don't think we've tried "wiggling" the lever as much as we've shifted into forward (engine not running) then back to neutral then try starting--that worked once or twice but not usually. I've changed shift cable and steering cable on my pontoon boat, so it's not totally foreign to me. The SN2001 cables go forward from the Morse control, I believe. How do they get from the bow to the engine--through a tube buried in the foam? In other words, can they be easily replaced without pulling the front floor? I'll have to research some cable-change threads and read up on it. Tim, I don't think it's in the wiring (any more). We haven't checked voltage every single time this has happened, but we've checked it half a dozen times or so, and in each of those we had 12V to the feed side of the NSS and nothing coming out of it. Jumper the switch and it starts right up (old and new NSS). I'm wondering if something inside the transmission is messed up, but I don't really understand what's in there. I'd love to see some photos or drawings of that assembly. I looked at the exploded view of the whole tranny a long time ago and it didn't help me at all. Also, my son has laid on his back removing and cleaning every connection to the ignition switch and every fuse connection. I had him replace one of the fuse holders which was stripped and wouldn't tighten--it happened to be the blower fuse. It was pretty amazing--he replaced it with a new fuse holder, put the wiring back together, and flipped on the blower switch. We both stared at each other--the blower now sounds like it's running about twice as strong as before. I think we're going to replace the rest of the fuse holders. At some point, my son will replace all of the under-dash wiring and the harness back to the engine, but not now (he's busy playing high school football). One of the first things we did was spend an hour or maybe 90 minutes starting at the battery and working our way across every circuit on the engine, disassembling, cleaning, and assembling tightly every single connection. Every old boat should get that now and then. Thanks, guys. Steve |
Posted By: blue&white
Date Posted: March-15-2024 at 11:24am
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Steve - did y’all ever get to the bottom of this? I have a 1980 SN that seems to have the same issue. I am planning on bringing it back to the house next week for a working party. Trouble shooting the hot engine no crank is top of my list. Any additional info is appreciated ------------- ZAC |
Posted By: boardersdad
Date Posted: March-17-2024 at 6:33pm
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Hello Zac, I don't think we've changed anything since my September-05-2013 posts. Life has changed in the 10+ years since. We moved onto an inland lake in the Fox Valley. Our daughter now lives out west. Our son lives near us, but is so busy building a business he almost never boats any more. We have the SN2001 and our pontoon on boat lifts here at the house--really nice for access and not having to tow them around. The SN gets used several times a year when my daughter is in town. I continue to drill into all their heads to never have the engine running with a skier/wakeboarder near aft. I'll have to ask them this summer if they ever get the no-start condition. I'm guessing that if they do, they just wiggle the control a bit. The SN has been pretty rock solid for us. Steve |
Posted By: andrewmarani
Date Posted: March-23-2024 at 12:45pm
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Had a problem with my 86 silver nautique. Every once in a while we would turn the key and get nothing, lived with it for years. Jumping the solenoid started the boat but that's not something I want to do much. Finally put some time in reading here and staring at everything on the boat. I went to the end of the shift cable where it connects to the transmission, pulled it free from the lever arm, turned that threaded brass thing twice, put it back together, turned the key and got nothing. Pulled it apart again, turned the brass thingy four times in the other direction, put it together, turned the key and the engine started right up. Haven't had that issue since. I think the ball on the end of the safety switch was not seating completely into a detent in something in the transmission. I'm sure someone on here can give a more technical explanation of what was happening. ------------- Builder |