Boat sunk but had factory foam
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Category: General Correct Craft Discussion
Forum Name: General Discussion
Forum Discription: Anything Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=30998
Printed Date: February-21-2025 at 3:11am
Topic: Boat sunk but had factory foam
Posted By: ny_nautique
Subject: Boat sunk but had factory foam
Date Posted: July-30-2013 at 1:01pm
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There's an interesting thread in the http://www.themalibucrew.com/forums/index.php?/topic/45115-very-very-sad-day/" rel="nofollow - Malibu forums about a guy whose boat sunk this weekend. He took water over the bow and then had a 2nd wave hit him and it filled up too quick to recover. They beached the boat but the sheriff's department decided to tow the boat, which ended up flooding it more so it sank. It is now awaiting recovery at the bottom of the lake. This brought up the discussion about the foam in the boat. It may very well have had enough foam to float it, but with an extra battery, tower, speakers, etc, that may have put it over the edge. He stated that he did not have it ballasted at the time. It will be interesting to see what they find out when they raise it. http://www.themalibucrew.com/forums/index.php?/topic/45115-very-very-sad-day/" rel="nofollow - Link to thread and pics. http://s14.photobucket.com/user/frog169/media/boat%20sank/2.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  ------------- - Jeff 1999 Ski Nautique |
Replies:
Posted By: bhectus
Date Posted: July-30-2013 at 1:44pm
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That SUCKS! Wonder if there is any recourse with the sheriffs dept for towing the boat and causing it to go under all the way. What a stupid idea. ------------- '02 Ski Nautique 196 w/ 5.7 Apex bowtie - Sold '87 Barefoot - sold '97 Super Sport Nautique - originally custom built for Walt Meloon '97 Ski Nautique '83 SN 2001 |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: July-30-2013 at 1:56pm
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Those Malibu's do bow under quite easily. Must have been some serious rollers. ------------- |
Posted By: kytom2
Date Posted: July-30-2013 at 1:57pm
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I have to wonder if there isn't more to the story. Have owned a 92 Sunsetter for 13 years, never even come close to having water come over. ------------- |
Posted By: Nauti87
Date Posted: July-30-2013 at 2:03pm
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Kinda sounds fishy, although we all have our feelings about jet skis', I'm having a tough time with that story. Feel bad for him either way! ------------- 1987 SN 2001 Barn Find aka "Nauti" (sold sadly) 1988 MC Anniversary Prostar 190 |
Posted By: skutsch
Date Posted: July-30-2013 at 2:09pm
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Look how it is sitting, bow low, wonder if the underwater gear is holding up the rear or if there is really that much weight in the bow. I can't believe extra batter, tower and speakers would cause this. That's maybe 300 lbs, 400 top. Said they were waves from a jet ski, have never seen "rollers" come from a jet ski. Something doesn't "smell" right here... ------------- Our http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4669" rel="nofollow - 98 Sport Nautique My Dad's 63 Ski N |
Posted By: Mojo
Date Posted: July-30-2013 at 2:15pm
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What a bunch of goofs.. They could have pulled it in closer to shore and bialed it out before they towed it like that... Unreal dumb and dumber move for sure... What the hell kind of floatation does malibu use??? None?? Moj' ------------- 05' SV211 TE 73' Martinique had:96' SNOB had:76' Nautique had 77 Tique |
Posted By: quinner
Date Posted: July-30-2013 at 2:16pm
| Any under 20' open bow inboard is going to nose thru a wake pretty easily, with any weight in the bow will make it that much more susceptible. If you are in gear at idle or slightly above and take a wake straight on, it's coming over. Maybe he buried the nose and tried to throttle thru it? My guess is he probably had some significant water in the bilge already. |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: July-30-2013 at 2:21pm
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Who knows what people do to vehicles in general. I would love to go on a average boat ride or daily car ride with some of the customers I have seen with vehicle problems over the years. ------------- |
Posted By: quinner
Date Posted: July-30-2013 at 2:26pm
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That era BU is also a known "leaker", the LX and LXI I ski behind regularly the bilge pump is almost constantly on. Had that stupid HDS box on the LX converted to a conventional shaft log, slowed down the water intake substantially. |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: July-30-2013 at 2:26pm
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[QUOTE. I would love to go on a average boat ride or daily car ride with some of the customers I have seen with vehicle problems over the years. [/QUOTE] No you wouldn't  ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: July-30-2013 at 2:38pm
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Ha you are probably right Gary. Quinner, My buddies 02 lx was very abused its whole life but it seems like the box is still in perfect working order fingers crossed. ------------- |
Posted By: Gump
Date Posted: July-30-2013 at 3:06pm
| The sheriffs office should pay for additional damage unless they had the owners permission. I once hit a monster pot hole in a small town with the right tire of of the boat trailer. It ripped off the axle on the right side of the trailer, swung around so the right wheel was where the transom of the boat would be yet the boat had fell off the trailer to the right side of the trailer still connected to the trailer at the bow eye and the whole mess got drug about 50'. Weirded out Neighbors helped us carry the boat to a guys yard. The city paid for a new trailer. They were probably happy to do that as we did not pursue the small amount of damage to the haul. |
Posted By: quinner
Date Posted: July-30-2013 at 3:12pm
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The LX had an impact from what I understand, which generally kills those HDS boxes. Brownies 04' LXI on the other hand he has had since new, leaked from day 1 and continues to get worse, his kid almost sunk it a few weeks ago when the bilge pump bit the dust, which once he realized, water was at floor level. |
Posted By: ArtCozier
Date Posted: July-30-2013 at 3:54pm
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Another angle to this is the status of the boat with the USCG rules. My understanding is that any boat under 20' has to have positive flotation. It doesn't have to float upright, but some portion of the boat has to be above water when it's completely flooded. When they test our boats, we take a current hull, install a block of iron on the engine mounts that weighs the same as an engine package, and put old upholstery in the boat. They take a razor blade and cut open all the vinyl on the upholstery so that it can't hold air, and open all closed compartments so that they flood. Then they pump water into the boat and leave it sunk for a given number of hours. If it goes under, you don't get your approval to build and certify it. Art ------------- "Art" |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: July-30-2013 at 4:00pm
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Interesting Art. What's your take on what insurance companies will think of boats that sink that have been re floored without the use of flotation foam? ------------- |
Posted By: JPASS
Date Posted: July-30-2013 at 4:05pm
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I have never seen a PWC make a wave big enough to spill over the sides or bow of another boat. I have two jetskis and the only way I can throw a large enough wave is to slide it or do submarine donuts. ------------- '92 Correctcraft Ski Nautique |
Posted By: bhectus
Date Posted: July-30-2013 at 4:13pm
How would they know? It's a sealed cavity right? ------------- '02 Ski Nautique 196 w/ 5.7 Apex bowtie - Sold '87 Barefoot - sold '97 Super Sport Nautique - originally custom built for Walt Meloon '97 Ski Nautique '83 SN 2001 |
phatsat67 wrote:Posted By: panda
Date Posted: July-30-2013 at 4:17pm
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Even though he said that the boat had no ballast in it, I am going to guess that he had some steel plates in there. Steel will make the boat sink like a rock. ------------- 95 Ski Nautique GT40 |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: July-30-2013 at 4:21pm
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Bret, That's where I am going with it ;). I am just curious if a boat sinking to the bottom that was supposed to float would raise any eyebrows but then again it's stuff that was assembled 30 years ago so who knows if it would still float. The wood boats get the foam filled up with water like ballast soooooo.. Mine will probably go back together sans foam. ------------- |
Posted By: ArtCozier
Date Posted: July-30-2013 at 5:07pm
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I don't know how an insurance co. would react if one were to have a sinking on an old boat that had the foam removed. It would depend heavily on what date the flotation requirement was put into effect by the USCG. I know we have foamed boats since the early 1960s, but the early foam wasn't closed-cell foam so it behaved a bit like a sponge! I think if the boat had been built after the requiremenmt went into effect, the insurance company would have an easy out on a claim. If someone drowned as a result, I think it would be a BIG problem. My personal experience was that I took all of the foam out of my '65 SN when I worked on it in '67. One afternoon a friend called and needed to use my trailer, so we launched my boat and moored it out in the lake. That night just after I settled in bed for the night, I remembered the drain plug was still in the pocket on the back of the driver's seat. Of course the boat was on the bottom of the lake. I got the friend who borrowed by trailer to come help (in the middle of the night) to come help, and we horsed the boat into shallow enough water to get the gunwales above water, then I bailed it out with a bucket. Took off all the electrical stuff and put it in the oven at low temp with the oven door open. Changed all the fluids and went skiing with it the next afternoon. If I rebuilt an older model boat today, I still wouldn't put foam back in it. But I might check the effective date of the flotation law. Art ------------- "Art" |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: July-30-2013 at 5:22pm
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You took the floor out of a 2-3 year old boat? ------------- |
Posted By: ArtCozier
Date Posted: July-30-2013 at 5:44pm
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Sure did, the foam in the deep part of the bilge between the front seats was water soaked. It was open-cell foam. I had the floor out of the boat for other reasons. {remember, the floors were not glassed over until about 1969 (??)} The boat had lived its whole life outdoors until I bought it. Art ------------- "Art" |
Posted By: jbach
Date Posted: July-30-2013 at 6:16pm
that's a malibu response. those things have very little freeboard, and have an extremely low bow. i could easily see taking a roller over the bow. maybe he had steel/lead or additional ballast in it. i've taken a couple over my 210 bow and could see how it could get interesting, real fast. even with dual pumps, it takes several minutes to get all that water out.  
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Posted By: DeepCreekNauti
Date Posted: July-30-2013 at 6:40pm
| My guess...when the guy gave it throttle to get the noise up after the first wave he invited disaster. A whole lot of water can come over the bow in seconds especially since it was bow heavy from the first wave. He simply drove more water in. |
Posted By: DeepCreekNauti
Date Posted: July-30-2013 at 6:47pm
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We have a '05 206 SNOB and we have taken a few serious waves over the bow that totally soaks the entire boat. Many have run right up and over our windshield and filled the entire bilge area. It mostly stems from coming out of gear and hitting a big wave while the boat is settling nose down and stern high. It has happened more and more over the years since every new age ski boat has the displacement of a battleship throwing a monster wake. On Deep Creek, on a weekend, taking a wave over the bow is unavoidable since I got to get the boat back to a down skier before Mr. John Q. Idiot behind us runs them over. Never would have thought any of these waves would have put the boat on the bottom though. |
Posted By: skutsch
Date Posted: July-30-2013 at 7:06pm
Art when did they start foaming the Ski's. Dad's 63 did not have foam. Hollywood, removing the floors was easy; peel back the flooring and unscrew the screws, only problem was they were all straight blade screws if I remember correctly... ------------- Our http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4669" rel="nofollow - 98 Sport Nautique My Dad's 63 Ski N |
Posted By: ArtCozier
Date Posted: July-30-2013 at 9:08pm
Now that you mention it, I have a '64 that does't have foam in it now. Next time I see it, I'll have to look and see if there are signs that a PO took the foam out. In my '65, all the screws were on top of the vinyl floor covering with finishing washers on them. And they were Phillips drive. And battery screwdrivers were not yet available to the general public at affordable prices! Art ------------- "Art" |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: July-30-2013 at 9:19pm
I'd bet around 1968 when the powers that be also decided what switch knobs to have on our dash boards and bumper heights ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: skutsch
Date Posted: July-30-2013 at 10:01pm
Maybe I am wrong on the screw heads, but I second the battery screwdrivers, I think I still have the scars on my palms from the floor replacement project... ------------- Our http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=4669" rel="nofollow - 98 Sport Nautique My Dad's 63 Ski N |
Posted By: Airfooter
Date Posted: July-31-2013 at 12:44am
Very interesting quote and comment on page 8 of that discussion.... ------------- 1992 Nautique Excel |
Posted By: 89Martinique
Date Posted: July-31-2013 at 1:27am
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Supra's are like malibu's. If your not careful, very easy to take a wave over the front. CCFans, I wouldn't visit Lake Sunapee if I were, even though its very pretty! I would like to see the no foam over 19' to be backed up, interesting... ------------- Current Boats: 1992 Supra Comp-TS6M PCM 351w HO Pro Boss Pro-Tec Ignition - Full Composite (no wood stingers!) 1989 (3rd Gen) Correct Craft Martinique B/R PCM 351w Power Plus 1984 E-Scow Keuka Lake, |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: July-31-2013 at 1:38am
It's not,here it is- Subpart F - Flotation Requirements for Inboards, Inboard/Outdrive, and Airboats FEDERAL LAW 183.101 - Applicability This subpart applies to monohull inboard boats, inboard/outdrive boats, and airboats less than 20 feet in length, except sailboats, canoes, kayaks, inflatable boats, submersibles, surface effect vessels, amphibious vessels, and raceboats. Discussion: Monohull inboard, inboard/outboard boats and airboats less than 20 feet in length must comply with a flotation system called Basic Flotation. Basic Flotation contains the requirements and tests. Basic flotation is the simplest type of flotation mode covered in this regulation. It simply requires that the boat be manufactured with sufficient flotation material to keep it afloat in the event of a swamping. It does not, however, require that the boat remain in an upright or indeed any specific position. It may float, and usually does, in a "spar" position, the bow sticking up and the stern sunk. The requirements include some materials tests. Basic Flotation covers this type of flotation. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: July-31-2013 at 2:35am
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Interesting to note that it has to float but not in any way you or I would think it should ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: July-31-2013 at 6:23am
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They don't mention tubes!! I wonder if I need to get my pro tubes filled with foam? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: July-31-2013 at 9:52am
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It doesn't specifically say foam - an air chamber would pass. Pete, your good to go! ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: 89Martinique
Date Posted: July-31-2013 at 4:32pm
So my 20'2" CC doesn't have foam? That would be nice to not have to worry about. My Supra is fully composite so no rotten stringers to ever worry about.  ------------- Current Boats: 1992 Supra Comp-TS6M PCM 351w HO Pro Boss Pro-Tec Ignition - Full Composite (no wood stingers!) 1989 (3rd Gen) Correct Craft Martinique B/R PCM 351w Power Plus 1984 E-Scow Keuka Lake, |
Posted By: mdvalant
Date Posted: July-31-2013 at 4:44pm
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Now that I think about it, there's no foam in our Sporty...that I've seen. I guess the floor would have some? Dad's 90 Ski had it under the gunnels and the underside of the bow deck was full of foam. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5009 - '90 Ski (sold) http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5479 - '00 Sport Mississippi River - Bellevue, IA |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: July-31-2013 at 4:56pm
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There is foam under both of your floors still ------------- |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: July-31-2013 at 4:57pm
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The foam under my floor makes it have a nice soft springy feel so it's not as hard on your feet walking around the boat......... Oh wait it's not supposed to be soft? ------------- |
Posted By: ArtCozier
Date Posted: July-31-2013 at 7:15pm
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It's not quite as soft as the foam on your beer! Art ------------- "Art" |
Posted By: Keuka
Date Posted: August-01-2013 at 11:04am
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I checked back on the link to this forum. They did get the boat raised from the bottom and in the pictures it didn't look too bad considering the circumstances. It was found upside down about 30ft from where it was marked. They are thinking it will still be a total loss considering the $9200 fee to raise it. David ------------- 86 Martinique |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: August-01-2013 at 11:10am
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A guy from my home town had an early 90's Supra of some sort. They took on a roller and water and rolled it over on their vacation. They towed it back to the dock (tower and it floated). Rolled it over drained all fluids and let it air out for a day. Re installed fluid hit the key started checked all systems and went skiing that next morning. Used it just fine ever since!! I don't think they even made a claim (guy is an insurance adjuster). Art, I am pretty sure there is some beer down in the foam from my college days!! ------------- |
Posted By: 74Wind
Date Posted: August-01-2013 at 8:53pm
$9200,Yikes. Time to confirm "Wreckage Removal" is clearly stated/included in our insurance policies, eh? And fuel spill liability....... ------------- 1974 Southwind 18 1975 Century Mark II |