1 wire alternator
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Engine Repair
Forum Discription: Engine problems and solutions
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3117
Printed Date: November-23-2024 at 10:10am
Topic: 1 wire alternator
Posted By: tonydjd
Subject: 1 wire alternator
Date Posted: March-01-2006 at 12:51pm
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Ok guys put new alternator on I ran a new wire #6 gauage should I connect back to the 50 amp breaker if so the wire from the 50 amp breaker to postive side of solenoid looks to be only about 14gauage should I also put a #6 wire from the breaker to the solenoid or would it be better just to run the charging #6 wire to postive side of the solenoid sure does seem easier to do it that way. I do have the dash protected with a fuse box set up.
This is the last thing before she goes back in the water temp 80 again in Florida today ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1061&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990 - Old School 88 |
Replies:
Posted By: tonydjd
Date Posted: March-01-2006 at 1:27pm
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Ok spoke with Woody told me install 100 amp breaker keep postive from alternator to the breaker then wire from breaker goes to dash #10 panel and postive side of solenoid does that make sense to everybody ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1061&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990 - Old School 88 |
Posted By: tonydjd
Date Posted: March-01-2006 at 2:53pm
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Ok after further review a continue circuit loop with the alternator field(charging wire) closet to breaker to protect everything else
2 bolts on breaker one side hot to solenoid other side alt field and #10 wire that feds the dash see I knew I would figure out sooner or later ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1061&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990 - Old School 88 |
Posted By: Bremsen
Date Posted: March-01-2006 at 3:27pm
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Tony, what amp alt did you buy? also, where/how much? Mine might need replacing soon.
I'm confused though....wouldn't you run the power to the solenoid and then directly to the battery (or isolator/combiner/perko)? whats with wiring to the dash panel? 6 gauge should be enough, but if you plan on adding stereo, etc I'd bump up to a 4 gauge or maybe 2. Yes, you should replace the solenoid wire as well. |
Posted By: JEFF KOSTIS
Date Posted: March-01-2006 at 7:54pm
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I would purchase the 100 amp breaker and leave the exisiting one as is. The reason behind this is because changing the 50A to a 100A is defeating the purpose of the breaker protecting the main feed to the dash which is usually a #10 wire. Its almost like taking a 15 amp breaker in your house and dropping a 30 in it instead. Without knowing all the variables with the wires hooked up on the output of the 50A breaker, it should stay put.
Where its a single wire alternator, I would use no smaller than a #4, because the field is tied to that as well and cant compensate for any voltage drop in the wire. I would mount the new 100A breaker as close to the main batt cable on the engine, so your wire will go from the main batt cable on the engine to the new breaker(shortest possible run to this is important since its not protected) then from the breaker to the alternator output stud. Hope this helps....My .02 Jeff... ------------- MUSTANG COUNTRY http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1074 - 1974 Mustang 17 http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1093 - 1976 Mustang 17 |
Posted By: tonydjd
Date Posted: March-01-2006 at 8:16pm
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It's funny you say that Jeff thats what I was trying to explain to Woody today. sometimes I can't explain well but I understand what I'm trying to due.To make life easier I'm going with only a 60 amp alternator 75 amp breaker I beilieve this set up will allow me to keep everything else the same that #10 wire could handle the amp's coming off the Alt what do you think.
By the way Jeff the #10 wire coming from the breaker goes to a fuse box then all might items are indivudally protected i.e. blower,bilge ,lights and so forth no longer have the circuit breaker style set up to many issues with that wiring if you know what I mean. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1061&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990 - Old School 88 |
Posted By: tonydjd
Date Posted: March-01-2006 at 8:25pm
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By the way I can make life easier. Take my dash feed from the main battery via a battery style switch. This way I can install the new alternator 60 amp with a #6 wire directly to the postive side of the solenoid does this make since or do I need to protect the solenoid. Just a thought ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1061&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990 - Old School 88 |
Posted By: JEFF KOSTIS
Date Posted: March-01-2006 at 8:35pm
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If its a one wire alt that is going in, I would say no to that. 60A for a #10 alt output wire is pushing the luck. I would certaily go with A larger one. What happens is the single wire alt cant adjust for the drop in the cable from its output terminal to the breaker. Of course, the shorter the run, the better it is. The old style with a external regulator senses the voltage at the breaker and the alt compensates for it, maybe putting out 15v at the output stud, but getting 14 at the breaker. This is the reason why you cant hook dual batteries with a isolator(diode bank) with a single wire hookup alt. It wont compensate for the .6 to .7 volt drop through the diodes.
I would run the #4 wire and go with the 75a breaker seperately like I mentioned before it were mine. My .02 again. 
Jeff.. ------------- MUSTANG COUNTRY http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1074 - 1974 Mustang 17 http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1093 - 1976 Mustang 17 |
Posted By: jbear
Date Posted: March-01-2006 at 8:56pm
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Jeff: I know you live for these threads. I enjoy it when you speak electrical. Might as well be a foreign language to me.
john ------------- "Loud pipes save lives" AdamT sez "I'm Canadian and a beaver lover myself"... |
Posted By: tonydjd
Date Posted: March-02-2006 at 4:07am
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Ok Jeff I'm convinced I will leave the orginal set up install 75 ampbreaker to protect wire coming of the new alternator. but were do you want me to install the wire after I come off the 75 amp breaker to the postive side of the solenoid were the #2 wire comes from the battery or just run a longer wire and run to the battery itself. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1061&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990 - Old School 88 |
Posted By: Jim_In_Houston
Date Posted: March-02-2006 at 10:41am
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If you are going to use a 75 amp breaker you better not use a wire size smaller than #8. I would run #6. But then again, I would not use a 75 amp breaker. You could probably get by with a 60 amp breaker on #10 but that is very marginal. I wouldn't do it. The problem, however, with #6 is going to be termination. My 2 cents.
Is a 60 amp breaker and #10 wire standard on CCs? Now, if we run one 1/2" x 4" copper bus bar through the right gunnel for positive and one 1/2" x 4" copper bus bar through the left gunnel for negative we might be covered on all the electrical cr*p anyone would want to hang on the boat - but I doubt it. Hang on Jeff, before you reply, I have to go put my code book into my holster. 
BTW, this may sound kind of sh***y but I don't always want to listen to other boater's music. In fact, when they drive by my house I throw rocks at them. (I assume that is what this is all about. ...in which case I recommend using a 1200 amp breaker and #12 Gauge wire.) ------------- Happy owner of a '66 and a '68 Mustang |
Posted By: tonydjd
Date Posted: March-02-2006 at 1:37pm
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Factory installed 50 amp with 36 amp alt with #10 wire to dash for the postive feed.
not about loud music only have 4 speakers 2 on tower 2 on the inside. They don't make the alternator that's currently on the boat so I went with 60 amp but probally only a true 56 amp alternator or at least that's what everyone says just want to make sure things are going to be safe. I like to do work once not twice. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1061&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990 - Old School 88 |
Posted By: Jim_In_Houston
Date Posted: March-02-2006 at 1:58pm
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BTW, tonydjd, I hope you misunderstood Woody because his advise has always been right-on.
Do not use a 100 amp breaker to protect a #10 wire! Jeff is right-on, you could come out of the 100 amp breaker to a 50 amp breaker with a #4 wire and from the 50 amp breaker to your dash with a #10 wire although #8 would be better. ------------- Happy owner of a '66 and a '68 Mustang |
Posted By: tonydjd
Date Posted: March-02-2006 at 3:51pm
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It wasn't that Woddy was wrong he mentioned he did not have the wiring schematic. On the rear of the engine was the 50 amp circuit breaker with
on one side red wire #10 which basicaly a short jumper wire that went to postive side of solenoid basically the same spot the postive wire from the battery is attached. on the other side there are 2 wires attached the orange #10 coming from the alternator and a #10 wire that went into wireharness that looks to be the dash hot feed, Woody thought that wire was the amp meter. I was looking directly at this and knew in fact that it was the dash feed wire not amp meter wire but I understand it's hard to answer questions without having schematic or looking directly at it. Believe me anytime you need an answer he is by far the most informed person out there. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1061&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990 - Old School 88 |
Posted By: tonydjd
Date Posted: March-02-2006 at 4:01pm
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Ok Jim to make it easier I can take my dash feed from battery because I installed a battery switch and a fuse box set up to protect all switches.
then could I run #6 wire from alternator to 100 amp breaker then run a #6 wire from the otherside of breaker to the postive side of solenoid (same spot the postive battery feeds).Thats how the original setup was done the only thing different would be instead of taking the dash hot from circuit breaker I took it from the battery. Does that seem ok. thanks for all the advice ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1061&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990 - Old School 88 |
Posted By: Jim_In_Houston
Date Posted: March-02-2006 at 6:09pm
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tony. Your breaker does not have to be larger than your alternator. It's nice that you have a 60 amp alternator. The actual amps that flow out of your alternator depend on the amount of electrical devices that "pull" the amps out of the alternator. All of that "amp pull" or "amp draw" as it is called, is also called the electrical load. It's good that the alternator is rated higher than your electrical load.
When amps flow through a conductor heat is given off. The more amps the more heat. Larger wire will handle more heat (and therefore more amps). The circuit breaker is in the circuit to keep your wire from melting if the amp draw gets too high. The circuit breaker MUST be rated at an amp rating lower than the amp rating of the wire. I do not have the specifics of how wire is rated for amps in a boat but wire ratings for various applications are all somewhat close. We had this discussion on another thread and I kind of hate to bring it up again but I think you need the help. The National Electrical Code (NEC), which DOES NOT apply to boats but is all I have to go by, and I think Jeff goes by the NEC also, states in one of it's wire rating tables that #6 copper wire is rated at 55 amps. Wires with different types of insulation placed in different locations carry slightly different amp ratings. But using the 55 amp number, which, I admit, is conservative, would dictate that the circuit breaker protecting that wire be rated less than 55 amps - a 50 amp circuit breaker should be OK. A 100 amp circuit breaker will not trip until the #6 wire is well on it's way to bursting into flames. My advise, IMHO, (help me out here Jeff), is to either use a 50 amp circuit breaker if you plan to run #6 wire or, if you really want to use a 100 amp breaker run #2 wire, unless it is a very short wire, less than 6 inches, in which case you could probaby get by with #3 or #4 (but I would not run #4 wire a long distance if it were protected by a 100 AMP circuit breaker). EXCEPT, if you know the amp rating of the exact wire you are buying and you know it is rated higher than 100 amps). Help Jeff!!! ------------- Happy owner of a '66 and a '68 Mustang |
Posted By: JEFF KOSTIS
Date Posted: March-02-2006 at 6:41pm
Jim, sorry, but I cant agree totally with what quoted. If you run the stereo for a while and drain the batt some, when you start the engine, the alt is going to put out full ticky for a short while running necessary accessories and charging the batt (unless its at idle all the time). I know with nothing else but just the batt charging will peak a 60a alt out for 10 seconds with a half drained 800cca batt. This means if he has 10 amps of load w/accys going on cause he has everything off, the batt is going to get 50a for a while going through the 50a breaker. This to me is a bit marginal and may trip on a very hot day, but cant be sure. As far as the wire size goes, I agree 100% on what you say. In general wiring in vehicles/boats, I always like to go bigger than NEC says due to the fact that there isnt much allowance in voltage drop. You can get flexible #2 wire and crimp terminals, but need the big crimper. The reason so many circuits are not breakered or fused correctly is due to the fact of relatively short wire distances and the main purpose is fusing a known "fixed" load. This is like the dome light of a truck is fused at 20a with #18 wire. The only purpose is to blow the fuse in the event of a dead short (which it will) and not a overload. A overload is like running 20 100w 117v bulbs in a 15a house circuit getting plugged in to the same circuit. Hope this helps everyone!!
And Jbear, have a drink for me when you read this...  ------------- MUSTANG COUNTRY http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1074 - 1974 Mustang 17 http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1093 - 1976 Mustang 17 |
Jim_In_Houston wrote:Posted By: JEFF KOSTIS
Date Posted: March-02-2006 at 7:14pm
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Jim, I can say the only music on my boat is the tune of the straight pipes out or the rear!!!
Tony, forgot to ask if your boat has a amp meter on the dash. ------------- MUSTANG COUNTRY http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1074 - 1974 Mustang 17 http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1093 - 1976 Mustang 17 |
Posted By: Jim_In_Houston
Date Posted: March-02-2006 at 8:08pm
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I concur Jeff. Thank you. I was considering only electrical appliances. I didn't know circuit breakers were installed between the battery and the alternator. I need to look closer at mine. I figured the wire from the alternator to the battery was sized to handle maximum alternator output. Stands to reason that if the alternator winding went to ground you would want to trip a breaker.
I will take a closer look at mine. So, based on this, the circuit breaker has to be sized larger than the amp output capability of the alternator and the wire has to be sized larger than the circuit breaker. Humm.. wire sized for 100+ amps???? Wow. Bring out the welding cable. So, my bus bar idea is starting to look pretty good, huh? So, that brings up the question: If your alternator goes to ground will a circuit breaker trip? I have never seen that happen. ------------- Happy owner of a '66 and a '68 Mustang |
Posted By: Jim_In_Houston
Date Posted: March-02-2006 at 8:24pm
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You just have to hate all of this... (I just can't help myself)
Two types of over-current situations: In a shorted circuit, electric current flows outside of it's intended path and is limitied only by the impedence of the circuit and the ability of the voltage source to supply current. (This is why we have fuses and appearantly, in the case of boats, circuit breakers). Warning warning, here we go again!!! In an overload, current flows within its intended path but is higher than the design rating of the electrical system. I may be just learning about boats, which I am, but when it comes to theory (for whatever that's worth) - send me in coach. I've got bits of theory stuck in every pocket and I'm just dying for opportunities to whip it out!!!! Now all I have to do is go get into my theoretical boat and drink my theoritical beer while I work hard to embarrass myself in front of the theoretical babes in their theoretical thongs!! Sorry Tony. I suggest you sell the damn boat and buy stock in Belden Wire & Cable. ------------- Happy owner of a '66 and a '68 Mustang |
Posted By: Jim_In_Houston
Date Posted: March-02-2006 at 8:30pm
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Jeff made me do it. ------------- Happy owner of a '66 and a '68 Mustang |
Posted By: JEFF KOSTIS
Date Posted: March-02-2006 at 8:44pm
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Yes Jim, as a rule, you have your main batt cable go to your starter (or solenoid), then a wire from that to the breaker. Everything else goes on the other side of the breaker. There shouldnt be anything hooked to the main batt cable unprotected (doesnt mean it hasnt been done). As far as 100a breaker, tony only needs a 75. The 50 would be marginal unless he has a "fixed" accessory load of 20 amps, thus allowing only 40 to go to the batt. Running a #4 wire is fine because the breaker is designed to protect lines from a dead short. A 5 ft. piece of #10 will trip 100a breaker with no trouble. Its a quick in-rush of current for the wire for a short time till the breaker trips, so the wire will never heat up. Just like a starter... can draw 500 or more amps from a #2 batt cable, but crank too long and she burns up. If a alternator diode fails and shorts, it will trip the breaker (or like me and accidently get a wrench across it).
Tony, easiest way to me would be to install a new 75a breaker near the main batt cable, then run a #4 from the alt to the breaker, then another #4 from the main batt cable on the engine to the other side of the breaker. The key to success is to get the breaker mounted as close to the main batt cable as possible so you have no more than a 1 ft. of wire that is unprotected from the main batt cable to the breaker. Leave the 50a breaker as is. Hope this helps and my .02
Jeff... ------------- MUSTANG COUNTRY http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1074 - 1974 Mustang 17 http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1093 - 1976 Mustang 17 |
Posted By: Jim_In_Houston
Date Posted: March-03-2006 at 8:44am
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Jeff, in practicality we agree. In design principals we part ways and thats OK. I feel very good and will always take your advise.
However,
If a short developes in a circuit the current (amps) will only be limited by the ability of the voltage source to supply it and the impedence of the circuit. I see what you are saying that in a direct short the 100 amp breaker will probably trip before the wire begins to burn. The problem with using #10 on a 100 amp breaker is that what if the short is not direct? What if the resulting current flow is 90 amps? What if the voltage source will not supply 100 amps? What if the the voltage source will only supply 90 amps into a direct short? Then what will happen? I will tell you what will happen - all of Tony's beer will be wasted pouring onto the flames shortly before eveyone jumps out of the boat. No boat and no beer man! I agree the likelyhood of a direct short and a tripped breaker is much greater. But hey, are you willing to bet on it for the price of a larger wire? I don't mean to scare you Tony. The likelyhood of a high resistance short circuit with a resulting current flow less than 100 amps is very low. Probably, if a short developes the resulting current flow will be very high and trip the breaker - I hope. I do like the idea of a 75 amp breaker instead of the 100 amp breaker. One last thing before we lay down our swords, the battery cable does not burn up because the rate of temperature rise in the cable is slower then the depletion of charge on the battery. (Unless someone adds battery capacity and fails to increase cable size.) Tony, go with a 75 amp breaker. I think Jeff and I agree (or compromise) on that. If the wire you buy is rated at 90 Deg C or higher you can use #6 wire. Otherwise run #4 out of the 75 amp breaker. If you do not know the temperature rating of the wire run #4. My disclaimer has to be again that I am admittedly not an expert on wiring a boat and I am intentionally overly conservative. My advise is based on theory and industrial design principals (from the NEC). However, I am not even sure if standards exist for wiring a boat. So Tony, you are left with what you are doing - take a poll and use the best parts of what everyone is telling you. Make no doubt, Jeff knows his stuff. The things we are discussing are pretty much theoretical vs practical. Jeff's approach is probably more practical and I think his knowledge of boats is far greater then mine. If I am in doubt I will take Jeff's advise in a heartbeat. I think he knows what he is doing. Ain't this fun? A final thought, upgrading to a higher amp alternator is not as simple as it would seem, huh? ------------- Happy owner of a '66 and a '68 Mustang |
Posted By: tonydjd
Date Posted: March-03-2006 at 1:22pm
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I think I will go buy A mastercraft now.
Just Kidding you guy's are great ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1061&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990 - Old School 88 |
Posted By: JEFF KOSTIS
Date Posted: March-03-2006 at 9:52pm
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Jim, I never knew we had our swords drawn.
If you read my post, I was recommending tony to use a #4 wire and a 75a breaker. I was unclear about the #10 and was using it as an example on how sometimes you will see it done and how they can get away with it. This is my fault as I was very unclear. I certainly would never use a #10, and stated that in several posts. On a another note, I agreed with your last posting except for one thing.
This you have here sounds like something from the NEC, and holds true only in AC circuits. There is no impedance in DC circuits, so that can be ruled out. Ohms of a cable change on what AC frequency is applied to it. Change the frequeny, and the impedance changes. DC has no impedance, so no matter what, its a constant calculation. Take a piece of standard telephone wire for example (Jbear will love this), it normally has a 600 ohm impedance. Now, this means at a certain AC frequency, you will have effectively 600 ohms across the pair. The twist in the phone cable is what makes the impedance what it is. Its not twisted to make it look pretty. So, if you took a standard ohm meter and went across a dead ended piece of the phone wire, you are not going to read 600 ohms, but infinity. This is because a ohm meter is measuring DC resistance(power from the batt in the meter). Hope this helps Jim. You certainly are knowledgable, and amaze me because you want to do things SAFE and RIGHT. I appreciate all the positive comments, and Im sure you know the code book better than I when it comes to the NEC. Sorry tony, A little of the subject. I think Jim and I can AGREE on the #4 and the 75a breaker. Good Luck!!
Jeff.... PS: man, its late and im beat!! ------------- MUSTANG COUNTRY http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1074 - 1974 Mustang 17 http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1093 - 1976 Mustang 17 |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: March-03-2006 at 11:04pm
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Wow a #4 wire,
man you lost me a while ago. seems pretty heavy duty running that size wire off of a 100A alt...never seen anything that heavy even on a diesel application(non-18 wheeler). ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: tonydjd
Date Posted: March-04-2006 at 4:25am
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I need another cold one I think after I get back from bike week I'll go over to Jbear's put down a few cold one's ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1061&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990 - Old School 88 |
Posted By: JEFF KOSTIS
Date Posted: March-04-2006 at 7:34am
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A #4 wire is good size, but will give you basially no voltage drop in that short run since its a one wire system. Automovive applications get away with it due to the high-temp insulation they use. On new GM trucks, they use a #4 on their alternators, since they have gone to a one wire system themselves. You would see #10 and #8 on the older trucks without the one wire system where it could compensate for voltage drop for the smaller wire. Not the case here. Also, most alternators are oversized for the application so at idle they will maintain voltage. Will never get full output from a alt at idle, so the smaller wire survives because it usually never sees the full output except at start-up for a bit.
Jeff.... ------------- MUSTANG COUNTRY http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1074 - 1974 Mustang 17 http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1093 - 1976 Mustang 17 |
Posted By: JEFF KOSTIS
Date Posted: March-04-2006 at 7:36am
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Tony, Jbear has gone on a little trip back home. Think he doesnt have a computer. Hoping he could figure how to email us some cold ones!
Jeff... ------------- MUSTANG COUNTRY http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1074 - 1974 Mustang 17 http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1093 - 1976 Mustang 17 |
Posted By: Jim_In_Houston
Date Posted: March-04-2006 at 6:48pm
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Jeff,
As I am sure you know, impedence = the square root of resistance squared + inductive reactance squared. In a DC circuit the inductive reactance = 0. Therefore impedence = resistance. There certainly is impedence in a DC circuit and it equals the resistance. When you are shaving nuts there actually could be some slight inductive reactance and capacitive reactance in a DC circuit, even supplied by the coils in the alternator and the parallel run of conductors in the conductor path, although from a practical point they are usually insignificant. The word impedence is often used to mean total resistance to current flow including any inductive reactance and capacitve reactance that may exist, even in DC circuits. (Sort of like the input to your DC voltmeter is rated in impedence.) The rise time of a current wave form is definitly limited by the impedence in a circuit, even in DC circits. This all goes way beyond practicality in wiring a boat and is therefore pretty much more meaningless dribble. But, if we are going to start dsicussing theory let's get it right. I love these conversations as they keep me thinking and you keep me on my toes Jeff. Now if you want to discuss how the boat is actually wired? Pffff... beats me. I thank you Jeff.. I love it keep it coming guy. Jeff, make no doubt I have limited experinace in the technical aspects of how a boat is wired and I am comfortable with your advise. (you can wire my boat any day...) I did look at the wiring in my '68 today. It appears the positive of the battery connects directly to the circuit protector with the battery cable. The alternator cable runs into the wiring loom and goes I know not where. I suspect it runs to the ammeter. It looks like it may be a #10 wire  .
There is what looks like a #10 wire that runs from the output of the circuit protector into the wiring loom, probably to my ammeter. I will stop refering to the device I have been calling a circuit breaker because I have discovered ther is no way to manually disconnet power using that device. It has only a little red button that pops out when a current overload is sensed. By definition, this will drive jbear to drinking, "a circuit breaker is a device which will open the circuit manually or automatically at a pre-determined current level without damage to itself". On a final point, I hope, in comparing the AC amp numbers in the NEC wire tables as compared to DC, the AC amp ratings are RMS values which by definition, create the same amount of heat in a circuit as the DC equivilant rating. I love it Jeff - keep me on my toes!!!! Have I killed this thread yet? Sorry Tony. Tony, did you ever get your question answered? I (and I hope Jeff too) take comfort in that anyone reading this entire thread will probably gain some amount of knowledge. Nighty nite all. ------------- Happy owner of a '66 and a '68 Mustang |
Posted By: JEFF KOSTIS
Date Posted: March-04-2006 at 7:45pm
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Jim, you certainly are taking the batton and running with it! Good job with the last post! I am glad we are both keeping ourselves on our toes! Im sure Jbear will be passed out on the floor after reading all of this!! The thing about theory is that no matter how technical a circuit is, you can keep going and going on different aspects of it that are irrealevent(sp) of the situation. I enjoy this and it also keeps me on my toes because I have not been doing much work requiring hard core thoery, just doing more manual labor due to a large tower job we took on.
As far as your boat goes, you will find the #10 goes to the ammeter on the dash from the alt, then back to the breaker. I like your observation about the cicuit interupter and not a breaker. I would of not caught that if you didnt mention it. Are you gonna rewire your boat and run a #4 wire too??? lol/ The best part of these post is I hope if someone reads them, they will be more cautious when adding accys and wont just run a wire of improper size and unprotected. Shorcuts can get you in trouble as I wired a temporary 12v power outlet in my parents new 85 Astro conversion van a long time ago to go on a trip, and leave it to me, I said that I will go to the fuseblock with a fusetap and tap it on the 20a fused side so I dont need another inline fuseholder there. Well to make a long story short, just prior to ripping it out after the trip, my sister folded the rear seat back, cut the wire, and the #14 burned from the rear to the front. It destroyed the fuseblock, carpet, etc the van died, almost caught fire, and took me 2 days to fix it all because I was too lazy to put a inline fuseholder in, and made a mistake by tapping into the feed side of the fuse on the fuseblock...Not a way to learn!! Dont be lazy!!! Jim, before I end, did you ever think that maybe tony posted this on purpose to see a possible battle??? He isnt far from Jbear you know, and you know he loves it!
Lucky that Jbear is gone home for a short trip, or we might be having to help after he reads all this. Maybe Tony should change the topic of this post.
What I really wonder is how many actually read all of this to the end???? Jbear will have to take a day off when he returns for all of this!!! Sorry again Tony!!! Hope you got it figured out, cause we sure dont!! If I could send ya a cold one via email right now I would! Well..... Im going to have to email Jbaer a case!!! Isnt this site awesome!!! Jeff.... ------------- MUSTANG COUNTRY http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1074 - 1974 Mustang 17 http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1093 - 1976 Mustang 17 |
Posted By: JEFF KOSTIS
Date Posted: March-04-2006 at 7:54pm
Maybe we shouldnt end this thread just yet???
Jeff.... ------------- MUSTANG COUNTRY http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1074 - 1974 Mustang 17 http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1093 - 1976 Mustang 17 |
Posted By: 79nautique
Date Posted: March-04-2006 at 10:54pm
Don't beleive this is quite right, a 10 gauge wire, but not a 4 gauge wire, GM has used a single wire since the development of the SI series of alt(which is about twenty years old now) and before that it was really a one wire system but there wire two wires going in a common connector and one was just bascily a ground. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=756&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1979&yrend=1979 - 79 nautique |
Posted By: JEFF KOSTIS
Date Posted: March-05-2006 at 6:57pm
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79, my 99 G3500 van, 2000 G2500 van, and 96 K3500 pickup have the new series alt, and has a huge wire (appears to be a #4 visually, but I havent sripped one to find out exactly) that goes directly to the batt terminal through a fusible link. All of our throttle body injection trucks used the older style, and the newer multi-port engines used the new style single wire alt. This doesnt mean all were like that because I cant be sure of that, but I know our company trucks (GM) have the heavy duty alternators, and maybe the other are different. I believe they list 3 different alternators for the 99 van. Also I dont recall being SI series alternators, I thought they were called CS or something.
Jeff... ------------- MUSTANG COUNTRY http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1074 - 1974 Mustang 17 http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1093 - 1976 Mustang 17 |
Posted By: jbear
Date Posted: March-06-2006 at 8:53am
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TONY!!!!!!!!: please do not get these guys goin' anymore. I am running out of Beam. Out to the ABC store or call 911. My brain is froze up. How was your ride? I am gonna pass on Daytona (to busy) but I hear there is lots goin' on at Orlando. I have guest coming in for Tribe Spring Training this weekend but may go for an evening ride.
Again: please consider my mental health (fragile) before starting any more electrical posts! john ------------- "Loud pipes save lives" AdamT sez "I'm Canadian and a beaver lover myself"... |
Posted By: JEFF KOSTIS
Date Posted: March-07-2006 at 7:52pm
Jbear, I will take total responsibility for your mental heath on these posts. I heard the brewing companies sold record numbers those days!!
 
Well, I guess it didnt just affect you... 
Jeff.... ------------- MUSTANG COUNTRY http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1074 - 1974 Mustang 17 http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1093 - 1976 Mustang 17 |
Posted By: bkhallpass
Date Posted: March-07-2006 at 7:58pm
Gee, after that electrical engineering course my second year of college I swore I'd never look at those equations again. Guess I was wrong BKH------------- Livin' the Dream |
Posted By: tonydjd
Date Posted: March-14-2006 at 5:02pm
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Done thanks for all the insight now that my head hurt's 60 amp alt with 70 amp fuse #6 wire from alt to breaker # 6 from breaker to solenoid # 8 from breaker to dash hot.
no I am not running anything other then factory installed items from the dash hot. The stereo and the amp are coming from second battery. I have a colhersee continous duty solenoid which is normally open it close when I turn on ignition which allows both of the batteries to charge hope this makes sense to all you rocket scientist out there in cyber space. Hope to see some of you in Orlando this year ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1061&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990 - Old School 88 |
Posted By: jbear
Date Posted: March-14-2006 at 5:27pm
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Tony; How was Daytona?
Please, no more of these electrical posts! My mental state cannot take it. You mentioned Orlando. Got any info on dates yet? We gotta get a banner or something to draw guys from this site. Gonna take your boat? Of course I will. Maybe we should meet up along I-4 and enter together, park side-by-side and get up a sign or banner. Let me know. It'll be here before we know it. Hi to the Mrs. for us. Be safe on the job. john ps; to long should've just e-mailed. sorry ------------- "Loud pipes save lives" AdamT sez "I'm Canadian and a beaver lover myself"... |
Posted By: tonydjd
Date Posted: March-14-2006 at 8:04pm
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May 13, 2006 - Orlando, Florida - Sea World
June 10, 2006 - San Antonio, Texas - Sea World June 24, 2006 - Sandusky, Ohio - Cedar Point September 9, 2006 - California - Six Flags That sure would be sweet hanging a correctcraftfan banner I'm sure there will be a banner from PN ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1061&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990 - Old School 88 |
Posted By: jbear
Date Posted: March-14-2006 at 8:39pm
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Tony; Ok plan on May 13th
There was something there last year from PN so...this year we will have something from C/CFAN! Did you get anything yet on sign-ups? john ------------- "Loud pipes save lives" AdamT sez "I'm Canadian and a beaver lover myself"... |
Posted By: tonydjd
Date Posted: March-22-2006 at 6:03pm
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Well took the boat out for a spin the new alternator works great even had the volt meter on the dash reading correctly thank's for all the great advice.
Next issue small amout of fuel leak looks like it's coming from either the small bowl screw on bottom or maybe the accelerator plunger gasket any advice on which it usually is. (Holley Carb) Also boat did not want to refire after shutdown not even a click. Move the throttle back in forth then she fired I believe it's the neutral switch any advice looks like there is no corrosion I guesss I will just adjust it. Just wanted some advice before I touch anything. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1061&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990 - Old School 88 |
Posted By: JEFF KOSTIS
Date Posted: March-23-2006 at 7:48pm
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Glad to hear the outcome!! As far as the NSS, it is prob getting tired as they do get intermittent and fail quite frequently. Check to verify the trans shift lever is in fact in neutral when the control is in neutral. You can confirm by jumping the wires out on the switch with a clip lead, or move one wire over to the same screw effectively connecting the 2 wires together if the problem arises again.
Jeff.. ------------- MUSTANG COUNTRY http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1074 - 1974 Mustang 17 http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1093 - 1976 Mustang 17 |
Posted By: tonydjd
Date Posted: March-23-2006 at 7:53pm
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Thanks Jeff the switch is pretty old I think I keep a jumper wire on board until I install a new one. I definately would not trust my wife or son starting the boat without the neautral safety switch. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1061&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1986&yrend=1990 - Old School 88 |
Posted By: JEFF KOSTIS
Date Posted: March-24-2006 at 8:20pm
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Tony, dont I wish I had this site a few years back when I was rebuilding the 74! I had to learn the hard way, slowing things down BIG TIME as I was just starting on it.
I am pleased to see things are good. Looks like there is no need for a seperate voltmeter line. I have a hard time with whats considered "acceptable" when I know its marginal. Nice work, and sorry for the shrink, and the need for extra drinks!! Especially poor Jbear!!!!!!
Jeff... ------------- MUSTANG COUNTRY http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1074 - 1974 Mustang 17 http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1093 - 1976 Mustang 17 |