anyone towing with a 3.6 Pentastar
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URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=32670
Printed Date: January-22-2025 at 8:56am
Topic: anyone towing with a 3.6 Pentastar
Posted By: 81nautique
Subject: anyone towing with a 3.6 Pentastar
Date Posted: January-14-2014 at 11:39am
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As much as I hate spending money on cars I am in the market for a new tow vehicle. I need to find something with decent gas mileage since it is my daily driver as well as have towing duties. I don't want anything large like a Tahoo or Expedition so I drove a 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee. Size wise it's perfect but I am concerned that the 3.6 v6 Pentastar will have enough guts for highway towing. I currently use a jeep Liberty with the 3.7 and although it's fine around town it really is marginal on the highway. In all honesty it gets the job done but I am going to burn it up eventually. I do have a lifetime drivetrain warranty on it but I still would like to move up to something better and not have to wonder when it's going to explode. The 3.6 has 290 hp over the 220hp in my current Liberty plus an 8 speed trans. the obvious choice would be their eco diesel which will get 30 mpg highway and should tow like a bear with 420lb/ft of torque but we're talking about a $5000 upgrade on an already pretty pricey ride because you can only get the diesel in a limited or higher trim package so we're starting at $43,000 before the diesel. Hard to justify the expense even with better gas mileage. Also this will probably be leased so the time frame and mileage allowed won't ever allow the diesel to pay for itself. Anyway, does anyone tow with one of these now and how does it do on the highway. Our rig is minimum 4500#, with the 3.6 it's rated for 6200#. TIA ------------- You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails |
Replies:
Posted By: Dreaming
Date Posted: January-14-2014 at 3:30pm
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Alan, I don't have any experience with the 3.6, but was wondering if you might be in the market for two cars? I keep my diesel pickup on my insurance year round, just because I need it a few times a year. Over all it is pretty cheap, tows the boat really nicely, and keeps me from having to load up my family cars with whatever yard debris, or tools that I might need to transport this year. If you like the Tahoe or Expedition, you might consider picking up a used older one to tow with and keeping your options open for the Daily? Good luck with whatever you decide on 
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Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: January-14-2014 at 3:50pm
Nah, the Tahoo or exped are too big for a daily driver for us. I'm considering buying a smaller fuel efficient car as a daily driver and keep the Liberty just for towing the boat but that still doesn't really solve my problem of highway towing. I may go that route but I really don't want to have to register and insure 2 vehicles and still settle for a subpar tow rig. We're most likely going new because this would be a company vehicle that's why the lease looks good to us right now. ------------- You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails |
Dreaming wrote:Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: January-14-2014 at 3:55pm
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I posed a similar question in this thread: http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=32426&title=hemi-vs-pentastar-on-jeep-grand-cherokee" rel="nofollow - Hemi Vs Pentastar Zach spoke very highly of the Pentastar. The particular Pentastar GC I was seriously considering got sold while I was dragging my feet. In the end, I wound up trading in my 06 Liberty for another (2011) Liberty. I found a now somewhat rare, factory tow package, version with low miles for a great price, so I jumped on it. My brother has a 3.6L GC with the Pentastar and 8 speed. He only towed my boat once, and it was about 8 miles of secondary roads. With a couple good sized hills though. He said the weight of my boat was not very noticeable. It certainly felt quite a bit more capable than my 06 Liberty. I haven't towed with my 11 Liberty yet to compare though. |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: January-14-2014 at 4:24pm
I understand what your saying Alan. Right now we have 2 vehicles per family member,the herd needs to be thinned. My needs are completely different from yours but I have been looking at Chevy Avalanche's. Maybe I'm off on this but I don't think you can compare a GC w/290 with a Liberty w/220. We have a GC with the old 6 and the Cherokee with the same and because of the weight difference the GC is a dog. If I had to do it over I would have got the v8. It looks like there are 500 lbs difference between the GC and your Liberty with only 70hp to carry that weight so other than maybe increased wheelbase it might be a wash between the two IMHO ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: January-14-2014 at 4:55pm
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You know towing 8 miles Brian is no way to get a comparison,he might have never even gone over 55. Some of us going to reunions etc,are hauling long distances,and I assume Alan will fall into that category as well. I have towed my Mustang to Florida,1500 miles,with my Cherokee and it's 5k tow package. You know it's back there especially thru Georgia.The Lincoln rated for 1200 made the same trip much easier. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: January-14-2014 at 5:10pm
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Do it Alan! They have enough poop to put them in the truck and still give it a 4500 lb rating in crew cab 4x4 configuration. Gearing changes the towing capacity greatly. The one thing the guys are saying about the 8 speed is with so many close ratios you don't see gear hunting. Clearly it's much smarter than prior ecms so they say it will stick it in 6 or 7th highway to satisfy power needs rather than downshifting and revving up to 900000000 rpms and then back into overdrive. But, I can't speak about the engine actually towing only what reviews I read. Both of my roommates are running GCs with the 3.6. One has about 55k on it so far. I would put a healthy sum of money down on that the 3.6 coupled to the 8 speed would make the liberty look like a redheaded step child. I drove a half ton with that engine and was actually thinking about trading I was so impressed with that transmission and engine combo with the economy. That being said, It pisses me off the eco diesel isn't available in lower trim options. What if I don't give a rats ass about how it looks but its a work vehicle that needs to get 30mpg highway? Guess they don't care about that consumer. ------------- |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: January-14-2014 at 5:13pm
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Oh and both the 11 and 12 Jeeps are running the older 6 speed VS the new 8 speed. ------------- |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: January-14-2014 at 5:28pm
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So is the Liberty leased? Where is the Aztec going?! Sorry Zach but I'm with Gary. I just don't see the benefit/cost here. Good around town MPG and towing guts on the highway are about as conflicting as can be and any vehicle is going to be a compromise. ------------- |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: January-14-2014 at 5:39pm
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Alan is no dummy, he knows the costs and we don't... He's asking for help on assessing the benefit, no need to go back to square one. I don't have any experience with the 3.6L GC, but have seen first hand how a few extra gears benefit performance so that 8sp shouldn't be discounted. Tranny, rear end ratio, torque curve, etc will all play into how well it tows, so looking at peak hp isn't gonna tell you a lot. I'm sure the GC will be a good step ahead in comfort and braking due the extra size and heft. Alan, if your time frame can support it, I'd hitch up the 200 and head to the dealership. It wouldn't be the first test drive/tow someone's done! |
Posted By: kytom2
Date Posted: January-14-2014 at 5:40pm
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Alan, only solution I see is going from a "Livin large as a Trailer Trash Day Boater" to a water side property owner. House and property will not depreciate like a vehicle but inital investment is greater. ------------- |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: January-14-2014 at 5:41pm
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Enough kool aide Timmy and better watch who you're calling a dummy! Can't help with this exact vehicle but I will say I've never been satisfied with naturally aspirated V6 towing. ------------- |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: January-14-2014 at 5:48pm
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There's no confusion who the real dummy is! I have been less than enthused with v6 offerings in the past as well, but hp numbers and gear counts keep going up, so that should improve the experience. Fuel costs being what they are, one needs to weigh towing frequency and make a compromise sometimes... Diesels and big v8's aren't for everyone. |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: January-14-2014 at 6:01pm
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^ dummy ------------- |
Posted By: quinner
Date Posted: January-14-2014 at 6:05pm
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Alan's 200 is heavy, my Tahoe with the 5.3 worked pretty hard towing that beast, when the sail was up we were only getting single digit mileage, while Alan was driving and haulin the mail I might add. |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: January-14-2014 at 6:17pm
| Girly car... struggling towing. The inadequacies underlying your Toyota bashing are starting to make a lot more sense. Should have bought the man version. |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: January-14-2014 at 7:06pm
The liberty is owned outright so i can trade it or sell it private. The Aztec as ugly as it is is a very functional delivery van for the shop and is also paid for. I have no car payments, for now! The GC with the 3.6 will get 25mpg highway, if it tows decent then it's a no brainer especially considering the two gas pigs I have now, neither is a good daily driver.
yep I drove one last night and the 8sp is pretty slick, real close together. When I have to drop a gear in the liberty I duck in case a piston comes through the hood.
Yep, you have to go from the Loredo E to the Limited and that's a huge jump in price then add the $4K for the diesel. With only a 15K mileage allowance on a 3 year lease you can't make that expense pay especially with the cost of diesel. If I was buying the story might be different. I'll have to run it by my accountant and maybe he'll talk me out of the lease option, if so that changes the long term disposition of the vehicle. Looks like some more homework to do, I really hate buying cars. ------------- You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: January-14-2014 at 7:18pm
And I thank you for letting me beat the tar out it while you were sleeping, We did a sustained 75-80 mph on the way home from Tn. Very nice truck but too much for our needs. ------------- You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails |
Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: January-14-2014 at 7:25pm
If you have the factory tow package on it (the hd cooling part is a little tricky to add aftermarket unlike the hitch), you might want to sell it private party to another boater, on here or otherwise. Might not get much on trade, but that setup has some extra value to someone who knows what it is and how hard it's getting to be to find.
It's a little tricky, since some of the traditional options for less than full sized tow vehicles, like the Explorer and Pathfinder have dropped to a more car like setup. Those two give way better mileage than they used to and can still drag 5k, but sounds like you may be cutting it close on weight. |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: January-15-2014 at 12:17am
Just like a baby, put him in the car seat and he nods off eh Alan?  ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: January-15-2014 at 10:50am
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Too many wine coolers on the road trip?? The 3.6 is 94 lbs lighter than the 3.7 and is much more freely revving. Peak power in Jeep trim is 290hp @ at 6400 and 260 ft lbs @ 4800. 3.7 (turd city) 210hp at 5200 and 235 ft lbs @ 4000. The only argument I could see here is that the peak torque is higher in the RPM band but that aside I almost guarantee you that with variable cam timing that torque comes on a much flatter curve prior to that than ye old 3.7. Add in almost 100 less pounds and a bevy of gears to select from and I don't see how it could come anywhere close to the poo reputation of the 3.7. If I remember correctly the 3.7 won't go much of anywhere until it hits or gets close to that 4000 rpm number with liberal throttle application. One of my jobs in college was running parts in a 3.7 powered half ton 2wd Ram. Probably about as slow as the VW 914 Porsche I had. Totally gutless. Didn't mind the 3.7 quite as much in my moms Nitro (very similar to current liberty platform). We only used that to tow to and from the ramp. Chrysler finally kicked that filthy habit of cutting down their V8s to build terrible 6 bangers. The harmonics of the 3.7 are horrific the higher the rpms go. ------------- |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: January-15-2014 at 10:54am
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Power ratings for the 3.6 liter Pentastar engine in the Dodge Challenger are 305 horsepower and 270 lb.-ft. of torque at 4,800 rpm;90% of torque is available from 1,800 to 6,350 rpm, for better smoothness and real-world punch. There's the magic line I was looking for ^^^^ http://www.pentastars.com/engines/tech.php" rel="nofollow - 3.6 Specs and Info Check out the above link Alan. ------------- |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: January-15-2014 at 11:04am
 Look how sharply the torque comes on and how flat it is throughout the rpm band. Disclaimer: These are the only sheets I could find and I don't think they are from ma Mopar. ------------- |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: January-15-2014 at 1:51pm
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At this point leasing a pentastar seems like a very logical decision ------------- |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: January-15-2014 at 7:12pm
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Alright then let me throw a new twist in this for ya. Accountant says buy over lease and take the large first year depreciation over the lease right off over three years. Another reason would be that we have two cars that are getting old now, if I lease for 3 years then turn the vehicle in I end up with 1 car that's 3 years older and no equity in the leased vehicle to put towards replacing it. I save money now but set myself up for a real costly dilemma in 3 years. I've sort of fallen behind in my vehicles because with the way business has been the last 5 we went conservative and simply stopped spending money, now I need to make that up or I'll be stuck buying 2 cars at the same time. I love talking myself into buying stuff,LOL Now for the good part, this afternoon I drove an Eco diesel. That was a big mistake because I drove a pentastar after that and there is absolutely no comparison. The diesel is amazing, powerful, smooth, responsive to the foot. A real solid vehicle. The pentastar GC felt a lot like my liberty when putting the gas to it. I can tell without going any further that it will do a better job than the Liberty hands down but it is not going to be enough better to drop 40k on. Doing some comparisons we drove identical 60 mile routes in both vehicles, combined highway/ city. The diesel got 27.3 mpg and the gasser got 20.1. Doing that math even figuring the added cost uf diesel fuel and a more expensive oil change the diesel still come in cheaper to run per mile. The real cost is a $4500 upfront cost for the diesel, other than that it's a win/win. Consider that we are now looking at owning the vehicle longer than three years, the lower operating cost and the superior towing we have our answer. All that's left is getting the right price for the Liberty and negotiating with the dealer on the new one. I will say the pentastar GC is very nice but the diesel is an amazingly different vehicle. The engine differences make the gasser feel like a fancy SUV and the diesel a fancy truck ready to go to work. Thanks for the work on the graphs zach ------------- You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: January-15-2014 at 7:30pm
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Exactly. Lease the pentastar Buy the diesel Foxtrot the toyota 15k in 3 years... wouldn't have to worry about its highway towing capabilities because I wouldn't be going! ------------- |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: January-15-2014 at 7:33pm
This is what I was getting at earlier and some dummy called me a dummy! ------------- |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: January-15-2014 at 8:01pm
That would 15k per year but still not enough mileage allowance for us as a main driver we'll do 20k easily plus any 2000 mile reunion runs that we throw in it. ------------- You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: January-15-2014 at 8:03pm
| Very cool, Alan- that diesel JGC sounds like an awesome machine. Glad you were able to talk yourself into it, ha. |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: January-15-2014 at 8:13pm
Better yet Tim, I talked my wife into it! ------------- You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails |
Posted By: lewy2001
Date Posted: January-15-2014 at 8:33pm
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Alan I have looked at the GC as my next replacement car. The 3.O Common Rail Turbo Diesel is made by VM Motori a Fiat owned company is by far the most powerful diesel in its class down under. The only diesels of that capacity that would surpass it would be at the top end from Mercedes and BMW. The only worry I have is the service costs of the diesel and repair costs once out of warranty. They have been selling the 8 speed MY14 model in Australia for almost 6 months now. You can get the 3.0l diesel as a option in the Laredo out here but the upgrade is still around $5K as they package it with the HDC and Electronic LSD upgrades to the Quadra-Trak 4WD system I am in similar situation as you I went conservative the last few years and now have a car with high mileage that as a trade is worth very little. The only negative reports I can find in Australia have been for warranty claims on the GC mainly electrical problems that the dealers have been slow correcting. These new cars with the computer like data buses running through them seem to suffer from software gremlins that at dealer level are difficult to have diagnosed and repaired. ------------- If you're going through hell, keep going http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2999" rel="nofollow - 89 Ski <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5685" ta |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: January-15-2014 at 9:01pm
I hate beating a dead horse but my VW in the +100k I owned it had major cold starting issues but never required much in repair,injectors rebuilt once,oil changes,couple of fuel filter changes and numerous glow plugs from jump starts and 1 starter. My Dad had a Volvo with a 6 cyl VW diesel in it with 0 problems other than being underpowered. So for their day I think they required less maintance. Oil changes were a very dirty job as was fueling up,I always carried gloves,diesel pumps and the ground around them is filthy. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: bkhallpass
Date Posted: January-15-2014 at 10:28pm
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Do you know anyone who owns one of the Grand Cherokee's with the 6? 25 mph seems very optimistic to me. I've driven a bunch of different jeeps as rental cars, and none of them got particularly good mileage. I could see how you might get 25 on the highway, on cruise control with little uphill, but to say one would get 25 doesn't seem realistic. Even my little 4 cylinder ford escape only averages 23.5 mpg. I can get it to 27 or 28 under the right conditions but no way can I count on that. Would be interesting to know what someone who actually owns the jeep is seeing in real world conditions. BKH ------------- Livin' the Dream |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: January-15-2014 at 10:55pm
I'm always skeptical of those claims too Brian, since we're going with the diesel now I'm not going to persue that claim. But like I said a few posts ago we drove diesel about 60 miles today and reset the mileage clock as we left the lot. We did a combined city/ highway of 27.1 or 27.3 I forget which it was but that was impressive so I believe it could be close to the 30 claimed highway. I'll tell you that diesel is rocket, I did some passing and it goes from 45 to 75-80 in a flash and with the 8 sped trans it doesn't have to drop multiple gears and rev to 5 k to do it. I was thoroughly impressed. ------------- You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: January-15-2014 at 10:55pm
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He drove one around and reported 20.1 ------------- |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: January-15-2014 at 11:26pm
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Niceeeeeeee, driving it first for sure sealed the deal. I hope to be in the market for a 2 year old or so eco diesel in a half ton truck when they come off the high sticker prices. I really think the future of autos lie in the diesel realm. You simply cannot produce the power and economy with a gas engine. Diesel engines swinging large props at lower rpms really would suit the needs of all the current huge ballast surf boats the market is trending towards (since we are on a boat forum ;)) ------------- |
Posted By: bkhallpass
Date Posted: January-16-2014 at 12:22am
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I like the Diesel as well. Considered buying one and may still do so if when I decide to replace the Yukon XL or the Silverado. I think your test today kind of proved the point. If the Diesel got 27, seems unlikely that the gasser will get 25 except under the best of circumstances. I've been told that the Grand Cherokee's are built on the Mercedes M Series Chassis. Don't know if that's true, but looking at the two side by side, I could see that. BKH ------------- Livin' the Dream |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: January-16-2014 at 12:53am
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It will be interesting to see how it works out,it is quite the commitment,I know I could not do it again,but I hope it works out for you.It seems with the exception of Todd and Pete no one here has had to live with one. The next Chicago beers I'll fill you in on the trials I had. If it does not have a block heater,it would be worth it to see if they will put one on. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: January-16-2014 at 10:53am
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BKH, Gassers can return good economy but with a slight head wind or inclines throughout the trip blah blah the gassers are way more effected than the diesel. Diesels can take all that stuff in stride and only loose a little economy to where a gasser goes from 26 under perfect conditions to a lot lower. Our 96 12v Dodge would get about 22 highway unloaded and 20 pulling my rig. 20mpg towing sign me up. My truck does wonderfully on the highway for a gas rig. 21-22 mpg but if you throw a nice head wind at it and it drops down in the 18's. When the weather gets extremely cold it bests 15-16 on the highway but that's only down in the teens/single digits. ------------- |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: January-16-2014 at 10:55am
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Have run Mercedes diesel vans for over 30 years now... 17 years with a 5 pot turbo 2.9 no problems other than new head gasket at 15 years, only yesterday looked at a new v6 eco merc keep an eye on the cost to refill the Urea/water tank (also known as Blue Motion/Tec in VW/Merc) we can buy at most filling stations in Europe not sure of the set up in the USA, a fully optioned GC will be close in cost to a ML v6 eco diesel, so may be worth a look, down side if you make many trips to see customers can affect sales by a few % points ! As Gary pointed out, first in on new gen engines are a risk so keep an eye on reports on it in Iveco vans that will show how good it is...and if there is a option to upgrade the battery/charging system do it along with Gary’s block heater. Good luck with it and keep us posted... ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: January-16-2014 at 12:09pm
yes the urea tank fill is part of the scheduled oil change maintenance that's why the service is just a bit more than the gasser. It is built on the Mercedes platform but a Mercedes is going to cost considerably more and not really my style. When I go see customers I rock it in my Aztek, they feel bad for me and I always leave with an order. edit: comparibly equiped the Mercedes is $15000 more. ------------- You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: January-16-2014 at 12:14pm
That's another thing with The Liberty Zach, it's combined mileage in summer is 18-19 but in the winter that drops to 15-16. Round trip to work is about 60 miles and that 3.7 is a pig for a 6 banger. I put way too much gas in it for the miles I'm running. ------------- You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: January-16-2014 at 12:53pm
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Yea Alan, My truck really kills the city driving in the winter. I mean its better than the 7-8 city of my older trucks but still 13.0 isn't helping me out much. The highway mpg is what most people look at but compare the city mpg of the diesel to the gasser and be amazed. If I could average 18 city in a truck VS 13-14 city that would be a big jump since most of my driving (unless lake bound) is in the city. I have considered trading into a 3.6 8 speed (since now days I only tow my boat) but the cost to upgrade vs my tiny payment/ok fuel mileage probably wouldn't be a win win. At best on my commute I couldn't see the 3.6 getting more than 2 or 3 mpg better than my truck and add another 100-130 bucks a month to my payment well there you go. Another issue with my commute in particular is if its below 50 or so outside my truck maybe is thinking about getting up to operating temperature before work? I spend most of my time driving in closed loop cold fuel trim which I'm sure burns a lot more fuel. You get the Liberty up to a nice operating temperature on your commute. ------------- |
Posted By: uk1979
Date Posted: January-16-2014 at 1:16pm
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Have a look at the service intervals I think it’s 25k/24 months and the urea tank will max at 10k then if like merc you're in limp mode until its refilled !...the eco v6 merc I was looking at is 31K service and that worries me.... Yes I too have an old VW Corrado that serves me well...... ------------- Lets have a go 56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: January-16-2014 at 3:08pm
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30 miles sure is a game changer Alan,I only went 7 and it never warmed up. Another factor is you own your company,I could not plug mine in at work. 45m plugged in would made a world of difference. Working outside all day especially when below o, knowing the thing would not start and having to be at daycare before they closed was trying. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: Hansel
Date Posted: January-16-2014 at 7:32pm
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After moving up to Fargo and experiencing the first Arctic blast of many in early December I knew I needed to get an engine heater of some kind. I just couldn't stomach hearing it start with that cold oil... *shudder* I looked into getting a block heater that sticks into the freeze plug on my block. This kind was even available OEM for my car. But after doing some "internet homework" and realizing how cold it gets I eventually decided something that warmed my block from the bottom up was best. That way my oil was the target of the heat. The internet also told me https://www.wolverineheater.com/%20" rel="nofollow - Wolverine Heaters were a good bet, so I called them up. They spoke to me over the phone and I ended up ordering a heater for both my block and my battery. The block heaters adhere directly to the pan; I had considered using a magnetic heater but my oil pan is aluminum so that wasn't gonna fly. The battery heater just slips under the battery, easy as pie. They've even got a fuel filter heater to prevent diesel from gelling up. Installation was fast and simple, they draw little power, and I haven't had a single hard start since the install even down to -20F. At those temps the rest of my car is suffering but the oil/engine is not. The warm oil helps my car warm up faster, which is great since work is only about 5 mi or so away and I hate driving unless I know I am going to get up to operating temp (I actually take a longer route to make sure this is the case). Alan, if you're thinking about getting a block heater I would definitely recommend this one. It is a small investment that goes a long way on engine wear and tear as well as what would otherwise be cold engine fuel consumption. I found Wolverine to be very helpful, but there are other options out there as they are not exactly the cheapest. They make some pretty small models that I even thought would go great on the oil pans of some of our more southern friend CCFans when it gets a bit chilly instead of the ole incandescent bulb (though this is way more expensive). |
Posted By: lewy2001
Date Posted: January-17-2014 at 7:51am
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Alan damn you.... I thought I would go and test drive the new MY14 GC with the 8 speed today as I happened to be working near the dealer just before lunch. The last time I was looking at the Jeep GC they still used the old 5 speed and I thought that the trans really let down a great package. Now with the 8 speed you can barely tell when it is changing gears. The paddle shifters on the wheel would be handy for towing and shifting manually.... as well as the cool factor :). After the test drive the salesman asked what would it take to get me to buy one so I threw a low number at him. Late this afternoon he got back to me saying he could do the deal !!!! He really has me seriously thinking about it now. I asked for fixed price servicing and extended 5 year warranty in the deal price as well as I told him of my reservations. ------------- If you're going through hell, keep going http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2999" rel="nofollow - 89 Ski <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5685" ta |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: January-17-2014 at 10:32am
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Mark, sounds like you should pull the trigger if all of those things come along with it! ------------- |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: January-17-2014 at 10:46am
Ha, good for you Mark. I just don't see a downside to this, with some trade value and maybe a little cash on top of it the monthly payments are not bad at all so we're going for it. I'm not one to change cars often so the longer we keep it the better this works. Dealer called last night and located one in our color preference so we'll go and haggle next week. That's a good point on haggling for some service help. This dealer, same one I bought the Liberty from offers free lifetime oil changes on the gasser but not the diesel so maybe there's something there I can bargain for. The Liberty's getting detailed tomorrow so we'll go see what they'll give me on trade and if that doesn't work I'll shoot some nice photos and get it on Craig's list, etc. Jammin, thanks for the info on the block heaters but it will have a factory one. And thanks everyone for bouncing ideas and info around, it's valuable when it comes from people who understand how we're going to use it. ------------- You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails |
Posted By: scottb
Date Posted: January-17-2014 at 12:17pm
And that color would be ... gunmetal flake or sublime green? 
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Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: January-17-2014 at 12:51pm
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Sublime for sure. ------------- |
Posted By: Hansel
Date Posted: January-17-2014 at 3:38pm
No worries Alan, figured that the worst case scenario is that the info goes into somebody else's memory back for some future use. It is such a great little gadget I get a perverse kick every time I start my car in subzero temps (like the -9F it was this morning). Good Luck with the Jeep, it sounds like a winner. Folks in my immediate family have had a couple Libertys and a GC, never a problem except for the Liberty that my brother rolled! My uncle had an '05 Liberty Diesel that he loved and hated. It was a total lemon that the dealer wanted nothing to do with, but had such potential. Jamin |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: January-20-2014 at 11:35am
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Alan, did you pull the trigger yet? Pics or it didn't happen. I am looking for that Sublime Jeep Grand Cherokee. ------------- |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: January-20-2014 at 11:43am
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Then again $10k can buy a lot of gasoline... ------------- |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: January-20-2014 at 12:08pm
Not yet, I've been doing my homework on pricing before I sit down with them. We were at the hospital visiting my FIL yesterday so I had hours to browse the internet for info and pricing so I'm ready to go to battle. And luckily they don't come in Sublime Green or I'd be fighting that battle too! ------------- You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: January-20-2014 at 1:39pm
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haha! So did you look into that website deal that TRBenj uses (I think Bret did too) that makes dealers in your area compete for your purchase? ------------- |
Posted By: lewy2001
Date Posted: January-22-2014 at 7:19pm
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------------- If you're going through hell, keep going http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2999" rel="nofollow - 89 Ski <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5685" ta |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: January-23-2014 at 12:01pm
Well here she is....Lousy camera picture for you but you get the idea. Color is Granite which is a metallic grey, who would have guessed that one right?  We did go with the diesel and I hope I love it in a few years as much as we do now because it's a fantastic vehicle. It has just a slight diesel ignition clatter at idle to make it sound nasty, I'm pretty sure it's daring me to hook the boat up and test it. Only problem in buying this is I committed manhood Harri Carri because I now get to drive the Aztek as my daily driver and Dana gets the new one. I'm hoping she'll let me drive on the weekends but hey "happy wife = happy life" ------------- You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: January-23-2014 at 12:21pm
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Is it that bad of a picture or is there no hitch? ------------- |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: January-23-2014 at 12:33pm
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OK a little late to this party but have been busy playing with my winter toys but I believe I can add to this subject as my wife has a ‘07GC with the 3.0CRD. First off great motor pulls like hel! good fuel economy(low 20’s but the new 8 speed is what it needs) No problems other than the problematic swirl motor that was replaced under warranty, after that not a problem since. Now addressing the extra cost of a diesel. A friend of mine was shopping for a truck he liked my diesel but kept balking at the 5 or 6G up cost of the diesel. I kept telling him he would recover most of that on resale, he didn’t believe me. So I went to Kelly Blue book punched in my exact truck then again but switched to the 5.4 and the gasser was worth almost exactly 5,000 less. So yes the diesel costs more up front but you get better towing ability, better fuel economy, and your vehicle is worth more at resale. No brainer PS; nice ride Allen my wife wants a new one but I told her that hers isn't even broken in yet. |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: January-23-2014 at 12:39pm
Yeah bad lighting this morning, it has a factory tow package. ------------- You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails |
Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: January-23-2014 at 12:53pm
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Very nice truck I bet with the diesel, more have the tow package than not. It seems like with the gas V6 Laredos, only about 10% or so come with the factory tow package. |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: January-23-2014 at 1:00pm
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DUDE Nice color choice. What the heck? I thought the point of that was for you to get better economy on your route to work ;). Here's the thing. If you all end up reaalllllyyy loving that ride you will keep it for a very long time IE. it won't get traded it will get demoted to the secondary/tow vehicle when something new comes along. Please report back ASAP when you hook something to it haha. The 8 speed behind the diesel is pretty seamless huh? ------------- |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: January-23-2014 at 1:25pm
 Alan, Perfect deal for the dark colored Jeep. We just got these in at promo pricing on our order (they are usually $$$$$). As long as it doesn't interfere with the rear wiper that would be bad ass on the tail of that beauty. Edit: I am talking about the black/frost Chromax Nautique. ------------- |
Posted By: IAughtNaut
Date Posted: January-23-2014 at 3:12pm
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^^^Dammit that's nice, makes me want to strip the chrome of my truck and get the blackfrost Alan, I would say you should do it, EXCEPT, it would be really cool for you to match the green chromax that's already on the 200V Zach you should set him up with that ASAFP ------------- bring the ruckus http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5347" rel="nofollow - 2000 Pro Air |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: January-23-2014 at 3:26pm
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ASAFP? Adam just trumped me. Want us to paint one to match??? The black chrome is the best thing they could have done. Sadly my truck has so damn much chrome I will have to run a standard chrome on my window. Supplies are limited at this pricing. Normal price for these little guys is roughly 100 bucks a pop. Promo brought it down to 29.95 for chrome and 34.95 for black chrome. Add in CCF.com 10% and you are in business. Alan, Nautique Magazines with apparel photos are on in the snail mail to the shop that ok? ------------- |
Posted By: IAughtNaut
Date Posted: January-23-2014 at 3:30pm
Isn't the chromax on Alan's boat green? Or am I remembering that wrong. Where did that come from? Did Reid paint it? ------------- bring the ruckus http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5347" rel="nofollow - 2000 Pro Air |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: January-23-2014 at 3:58pm
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I wasn't reading that clearly ha. Yes its painted but I don't know who painted it for him. We used to paint a lot of Chromax here until they brought the frost out on the G series boats and now the Black frost. ------------- |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: January-23-2014 at 4:39pm
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It was done at the factory and a bunch of sissies got their panties in a bunch when they saw it. ------------- |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: January-23-2014 at 4:55pm
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Sissies........ ------------- |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: January-23-2014 at 7:27pm
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Sorry guys, meetings all day so I'm just getting a break. Zach I'll see if it will go on with out the wiper hitting and if so I'll take a black chrome. Don't want to Green bling the truck. The green Chromax on the boat was done at the factory but I don't recall anyone making a fuss about it, unless the Godfather got in trouble and never told me. ------------- You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails |
Posted By: lewy2001
Date Posted: January-23-2014 at 7:44pm
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"You bought a Jeep" has been a very successful advertising campaign in Australia. So successful it has become part of traditional Aussie "taking the p**s out" Congrats Alan the new Jeep should make the trip to SJRR feel like a Sunday drive with the Hurricane behind. Looks like they still put the 18" wheels on the Limited in the US downunder the limited comes with 20" standard. The serious off roaders sell them and replace with 18s. Once again Alan damn you.... my black crystal pearl 3.0 CRD Laredo should be ready for pickup next week :) ------------- If you're going through hell, keep going http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2999" rel="nofollow - 89 Ski <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5685" ta |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: January-23-2014 at 7:49pm
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Alan, its 1.4" high and 18" Long. I am going to take one home and check on my roomies 12 GC for ya! ------------- |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: January-23-2014 at 8:54pm
Exactly, the 20's look ghetto and cost $1400. They had one on the lot with 20's and the guy couldn't understand why I made him find one with 18's. The 18's had a softer ride with a little more sidewall to them. ------------- You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: January-24-2014 at 10:41am
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I am sure tires are cheaper too. My roomie has the 20s that aren't the top option they look good. My truck has 20s Alan, are you saying I'm ghetto? ;) ------------- |
Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: January-24-2014 at 11:52am
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You definitely don't want to ride on low profile tires anywhere near Boston. Not with the condition our roads are in. Plenty of people still do though. Seems like higher profile tires do better in the snow for some reason as well. Maybe that has more to do with being narrower as well. |
Posted By: Dreaming
Date Posted: January-24-2014 at 2:28pm
| Nice Ride Alan! I hope you get a long pain-free life out of it ! |
Posted By: lewy2001
Date Posted: February-23-2014 at 7:38am
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Alan some info about the VM Motori engine that will make you feel good :) http://www.dieselpowermag.com/tech/1208dp_banks_vm_motori_630t_v6_diesel_engine/" rel="nofollow - Inside The VM Motori 630T Towed the 98 Sport with it the last couple of weekends. It is almost effortless for this engine and trans combo. Having the option to display the trans temp and engine oil temp is quite reassuring while towing. ------------- If you're going through hell, keep going http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2999" rel="nofollow - 89 Ski <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5685" ta |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: February-23-2014 at 10:47am
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Great article Mark and I can't agree more that this is a great motor. We've got about 2500 miles on ours and I am still blown away every time I drive it. From a daily driver standpoint it is far more than anyone needs performance wise, this thing flies. With the torque coming in so low in the rpm range it pulls in high gears with that deisel pickup truck feel. Only needing to downshift to climb a grade because you want to feel it wind up. The fuel mileage is right where they say if should be. We are averaging 23.3 on combine highway /city driving and on a highway only trip of just under 400 miles we averaged 29.3 at 70 mph. As for the grand Cherokee itself I a thoroughly impressed with every aspect of it so far, fit and finish is superb. Nice tight door seams,LOL. Most impressive is the selectable terrain type, we went down to visit the Weitekamps a few weekends ago, about 240 miles round trip and on the way home we hit a blowing snow that dropped about 4" with white out conditions. The headlight illumination is amazing but the snow setting for the transmission locks out 1st gear and virtually eliminate any wheel slip at take off. It also delays the up shifting so you use the trans to slow the vehicle down so you avoid using the brakes quite a bit on slippery conditions. That drive home was white knuckle and in the old Liberty it would have been a hand full but the GC made easy work of it. Such a pleasure to drive In the snow I would check my weather app at night in anticipation of a fun drive to work in the am. The real test will be towing bit I don't have any doubts it will be fine, I'm more anxious to see what it will get for mpg hooked so we'll know that in about a month. ------------- You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails |
Posted By: jbear
Date Posted: February-23-2014 at 10:54pm
john ------------- "Loud pipes save lives" AdamT sez "I'm Canadian and a beaver lover myself"... |
Posted By: OverMyHead
Date Posted: February-24-2014 at 1:49am
------------- For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats. 1987 Ski Nautique |
Posted By: john b
Date Posted: February-24-2014 at 3:47am
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"I rock it in my Aztek, they feel bad for me and I always leave with an order". You have it wrong Alan. It's not pity, it's fear.  Very nice new car! ------------- 1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox" If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: March-14-2014 at 10:49am
Well I towed for the first time this morning, dropped the Hurricane off for some new tires. Just a short 30 mile trip but I reset the MPG indicator before I left the house and we got 18.3 mpg. That was combined city/highway driving. The little 3 liter diesel has so much guts it pulled amazing, strong on the highway and with the extra gears if it does drop from 8 to 7 you barely notice it. I can't say enough about this package so far. The JGC Diesel is far more than an amazing tow vehicle it is an all around fun economic daily driver. Hopefully the reliability will be stellar and if so then jeep has nailed this one. ------------- You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: March-14-2014 at 11:07am
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Boom, you the man. Guess I will be in the used market 2 years from now for an eco diesel Ram. ------------- |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: March-14-2014 at 11:07am
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Any idea Alan of the Hurricane's all up tow weight? Towing thru Georiga on 75 will be a good workout,set the cruise on 70+ and see how it pulls those hills ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: March-14-2014 at 11:28am
best guess is 3500# Gary. We'll debrief Thursday afternoon at Parramore's. LOL The real test is yet to come when we hook the big boy up to it, my guess on the 200v is it's easily a 4500# rig and it blocks a lot of wind. ------------- You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: March-14-2014 at 11:44am
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Get that spiffy decal on the back yet? ------------- |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: March-14-2014 at 11:59am
No it's been too dirty and cold to do much of anything. Which reminds me I still need to send you some money, sorry. Checks in the mail! ------------- You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: March-14-2014 at 12:19pm
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Ha no biggie I just wanted to see it on there. Sounds like that thing is a hoss. Should make for one easy trip to Florida. ------------- |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: April-08-2014 at 11:02am
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Well I thought since we just completed our first real trip towing I'd update on the JGC diesel. We towed 2600 miles round trip. Our way down to SJRR we averaged 17.3 mpg with the Hurricane in tow, this was at an average speed of 72-75 mph. We we're bucking a pretty good headwind most of the way too. We found that powerwise the Diesels sweet spot was 2000prm and 72-75 kept the engine in it's powerband so hill climbing was unbelievably effortless, we decided to leave the trans in manual mode and as long as we stayed above 2000 rpm we were able to climb most grades without shifting down from overdrive and NOT lose any speed. The torque between 2000-2500 rpm is really dramatic for pulling. On our drive home we actually did much better on fuel consumption averaging 20.1 mpg. A couple of factors playing into that where that we hit a bit of traffic so our overall speed was reduced to between 60-65 for a long time. You could see the mpg average rise dramatically with the motor running between 1600-1800 rpm but we needed to drop a gear for hill climbing to get the motor back in it's powerband. We also picked up a very stiff tailwind that pushed us for 500 miles. I'm sure that was good for a couple of mpg and I'm glad we weren't driving into it because it had to be blowing 25-30 mph. Overall we've put 8000 miles on the truck in 2 months and I can't find a single thing we don't like about it. The JGC Diesel is a little salty price wise and certainly not as big as the Tahoe's/Suberbans, etc so it's not for everybody but I can't rave over this vehicle enough. I mentioned on the highway without towing we're seeing 29+ mpg which to me is unheard of economy for a full size 4wd suv. A great pruchase and I have to give it 5 stars. ------------- You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails |
Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: April-08-2014 at 11:10am
| That's awesome. Sounds like it was an excellent choice. |
Posted By: john b
Date Posted: April-09-2014 at 1:54am
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That's amazing Alan. With fuel economy and power like that it will have a lot of people rethinking their little weenie cars. Very nice. ------------- 1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox" If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: April-09-2014 at 5:19am
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Very nice new rig, I just read this post, very informative on the new Grand Cherokee. I towed from California to Michigan and back, we used the Mercedes Sprinter van with 3.0L V6, it pulled the load incredibly well, over 1,500 miles going 75+. Mileage dropped to 16 for that leg but if we slowed down it would pull 18+. Not a boat but we pulled a 1,500 pound car trailer with a 3,300 pound car on it so 4,800 pound tow. Went over the Rockies with no issue. Our trip was nearly 5,500 miles total. The engine impressed me, I looked for a Mercedes SUV with that engine but could not find one in my price range when I replaced my wife's car. I also test drove the BMW X5 diesel and it was amazing but again, they would not deal on price. The new diesel engines are absolute wonders for MPG and power. I ended up with a gas V8 because when I penciled out the Diesel advantage it was not going to break even till I hit over 200,000 miles and I know my wife, she will replace it before that just because she wants a new ride. I sure liked the diesel though and I understand buying one. Congratulations. |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: April-09-2014 at 10:39am
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Alan, sounds like a very impressive two vehicle my friend. I think with that 3.0 Chrysler has hit the nail on the head mixing the best of both everyday economy and drivability and towing abilities. That's impressive into a head wind doing 17+ mpg towing! My truck empty into a head wind would have been around 18!! I hope to see more smaller displacement diesel applications in the future. ------------- |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: April-09-2014 at 11:19am
I don't, that will mean less engine and vehicle choices because the powers that be will decide what you drive.200K til payoff?? I'd be way board of that old pile by the time it got to that mileage,they'ed also be worthless,I was offered 500 for the Lincoln on trade in Zach, thats scrap value ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: john b
Date Posted: April-09-2014 at 11:36am
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Ha, does that mean your wife will decide what you buy, Gary? ------------- 1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox" If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: April-09-2014 at 11:55am
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I bought an 2010 Avalanche in January John, to heck with gas mileage, got 15 fully loaded pulling the Mustang. Her new ride is still on a boat from the fatherland---- ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: 81nautique
Date Posted: April-09-2014 at 11:56am
I needed a solution to my one vehicle problem, this seems to be a good fit for us. We average 3600 miles a month so it will payback quickly and if we do get bored with it the diesel should hold some value over the gas model if and when we sell or trade in. For the record last week in the Chicagoland area I paid less for diesel than you could for gas so the payback will accelerate even faster. When I did my math while researching the JGC I figured a $.50 upcharge for diesel and I've yet to pay that so I'm pretty happy right now. Now down in Florida last week that spread between gas and diesel was huge, in some cases $.70/gallon so that would be huge factor. A small downside is the truck uses about double the amount of DEF (urea) while towing but our entire trip down the Fl and back I used about 3 gallons so that cost was $15. ------------- You can’t change the wind but you can adjust your sails |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: April-09-2014 at 12:04pm
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Alan, those are tremendous numbers- awesome! I'm with Zach... I'd like to see more small diesels available as well. Decent mileage for my (lightly loaded) daily driving activities combined with strong towing/hauling capabilities is a winner in my book. 200k payoff, no sweat... takes me about 8 years to hit that mark. The longevity advantage that diesels could once claim is pretty much gone now... modern gas engines should have no problem exceeding 200-300k when properly maintained. The weak link is the rest of the vehicle. Best to concentrate on the efficiency and capability advantages. |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: April-09-2014 at 1:27pm
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Exactly, the new gassers are getting so precise and robust with modern testing requirements I wouldn't be surprised at all to start seeing gas V8's at 300k+ as a normal sight (if folks keep them that long). That said, there is nothing like making it from Indiana to the bottom of Georgia on one tank of a fuel with a boat in tow. ------------- |