secret squirl head quarters, 351w build
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Engine Repair
Forum Discription: Engine problems and solutions
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=32695
Printed Date: October-08-2024 at 11:00am
Topic: secret squirl head quarters, 351w build
Posted By: inglesideshawn
Subject: secret squirl head quarters, 351w build
Date Posted: January-19-2014 at 5:24am
I can never think of a tytle for my projects. after hours of searching for a mysterious rattle, and thinking it was the invertiflow baffle it ended up being a broken spring in the bell housing and it was bouncing around. so while the engines out might as well send it off to the machine shop.   ------------- 1989 nautique |
Replies:
Posted By: inglesideshawn
Date Posted: January-19-2014 at 5:28am
 ------------- 1989 nautique |
Posted By: inglesideshawn
Date Posted: January-19-2014 at 5:33am
 ------------- 1989 nautique |
Posted By: inglesideshawn
Date Posted: January-19-2014 at 5:38am
all striped and almost ready for a trip to the shop ------------- 1989 nautique |
Posted By: inglesideshawn
Date Posted: January-19-2014 at 5:41am
 ------------- 1989 nautique |
Posted By: inglesideshawn
Date Posted: January-19-2014 at 5:47am
favorite pic ------------- 1989 nautique |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: January-19-2014 at 11:31am
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Was the spring piece from the damper plate? What are the plans for the engine rebuild? Was the engine giving you any problems? Reason I am asking, I also have '89 with approx 1200 hours, but runs fine for now . . . ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: Morfoot
Date Posted: January-19-2014 at 11:54am
The piece in your hand looks to me like half of a lock washer more than a piece of spring. In any case if that was dancing around in the bell house you've got a damper plate fixin to let loose on you. Not a pretty site I assure you.  ------------- "Morfoot; He can ski. He can wakeboard.He can cook chicken.He can create his own self-named beverage, & can also apparently fly. A man of many talents."72 Mustang "Kermit",88 SN Miss Scarlett, 99 SN "Sherman" |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: January-19-2014 at 11:54am
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Shawn, No matter where that part came from, do put a new damper plate in. From the picture, it could also be a broken split lock washer? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: TX Foilhead
Date Posted: January-19-2014 at 11:59am
| That off of the damper, mine was getting pretty close to that after 1000hrs, just needed a new damper. |
Posted By: desertskier
Date Posted: January-19-2014 at 12:07pm
| I purchased an '89 a few weeks ago. It also made a rattling noise when I put it in gear and it had a dirty idle. I pulled the damper plate and looked just like yours. No physical damage but some of the springs where loose enough that I could move them back and forth in the slots. I installed a new plate and it cured the noise and the dirty idle. |
Posted By: Bones71
Date Posted: January-19-2014 at 1:04pm
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Shawn, nice lookin boat. Looks to be in nice shape. Tony. ------------- That money talks, I'll not deny, I heard it once: It said 'Goodbye' |
Posted By: inglesideshawn
Date Posted: January-19-2014 at 2:45pm
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That's the great debate, theirs nothing in that bell housing that would use a lock washer? their is two springs that slop around in their pretty good, size and shape say spring. either way its getting replaced. Question, do you put anti-sieze on the splines going into the dampner? cant hurt.. ------------- 1989 nautique |
Posted By: inglesideshawn
Date Posted: January-19-2014 at 3:04pm
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The engine will be a fresh long block, more cam,compresion, new intake and keeping the cast heads. the oil pan had a pin hole dead in the side of it that made a annoying oil leak. its going to get the standard new fuel pump, water pumps exc. Dc grove did new bearings and brushes in the alternator for $50. im going to try the new style gaskets that are all one piece rubber, kind of pricey but if they last and don't leak well worth the money. already have a new carb and petronics ignition. as for the paint it going to be all assembled and shot with a gun, now the hard part is picking a color. kind of thinking Teal like the boat? or just silver again.. ------------- 1989 nautique |
Posted By: oldcuda
Date Posted: January-19-2014 at 5:10pm
| Still like to put a small dab of good sealer in corners but the one piece gaskets are worth the extra coin IMO.1 vote for Teal. |
Posted By: dochockey
Date Posted: January-20-2014 at 10:12am
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When I repaint mine I was thinking teal also but not sure if it would go with the red maybe change the red to teal and the rest silver? That boat looks great are those original decals and vinyl ? ------------- 1989 Teal Ski Nautique 1967 Mustang Harris Float Sunfish |
Posted By: quinner
Date Posted: January-20-2014 at 2:00pm
| Hey Shawn, are you on Long Lake or the Chain?? Who is doing the motor work, a local shop?? |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: January-20-2014 at 2:47pm
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Pretty sure from previous posts he is on Long Lake (which technically is part of the Chain). Not original decals. I also like the idea of keeping what is silver silver and just doing the valve covers in teal. ------------- |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: January-20-2014 at 3:34pm
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I have some of those valve covers in the shop here. Instead of doing the Ford racing ones. I was thinking of blasting the red off and doing wrinkle black and sanding the paint off of the letters after it dries. Either way could be a neat spin on some factory pieces. ------------- |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: January-20-2014 at 3:55pm
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It’s a good looking boat. I like the idea of the teal being on the covers as well- but slick either way. I would seriously consider some gt40p heads, otherwise it seems like spending a lot that money on an engine that already runs without adding a ton of value. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: January-20-2014 at 5:11pm
If you ever change your mind or come across another set send them this way,I know a Team Red boat that they would look good on  ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
phatsat67 wrote:Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: January-20-2014 at 6:04pm
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Haha, I have a few sets Mr. Starr. ------------- |
Posted By: storm34
Date Posted: January-20-2014 at 6:19pm
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I was expecting to see pictures of a squirrel nest in the muffler! Gotta agree with Joe on the heads. Spend the money now for a set and take full advantage of the other upgrades. Silver on the block and Teal on the valve covers would be very cool! Combine those with new hoses with the white PCM branding would be very clean! ------------- |
Posted By: inglesideshawn
Date Posted: January-21-2014 at 5:49am
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Off long lake, can get to the chain but have to go through the dam. ------------- 1989 nautique |
Posted By: inglesideshawn
Date Posted: January-21-2014 at 6:17am
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as for freshening up a 20 year old engine, my thinking is its better to do it now than wait till theirs a hole in the side. Hyperformance in Fox lakes doing the machine work. Whats the real difference between the gt40 heads and stock? is it really worth the dollars per horsepower? Ive always herd the stock cast exaust manifolds are to restrictive to make large HP. It would be interesting to see some dyno sheets. Im going for leak free and reliable. ------------- 1989 nautique |
Posted By: inglesideshawn
Date Posted: January-21-2014 at 6:26am
some welding practice...   ------------- 1989 nautique |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: January-21-2014 at 10:32am
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The manifolds are not the bottle neck. The heads are. The GT-40 and GT-40P heads have larger intake and exhaust ports as well as revised "quench" style combustion chambers. The P heads flow a little better and cost the same so there is no reason not to go with them. There is a place in Florida (someone help me on the name) that sells completely rebuild P heads and will drill them for 351 size studs for somewhere around 250ish a head. Joe and Tim will tell you the upgrades you do if you don't change the heads will just be money you throw up into the air and watch it blow away. What camshaft have you selected? There is a lot more options for you being a standard rotation engine because of the PCM 1.23 Transmission. The biggest non roller cam for the reverse rotation engines coupled with a good intake and the GT-40P heads usually nets in the 325 HP range. That is a big kick in the pants compared to the stock 240 horse motors. Side note: You can weld better than me ha. ------------- |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: January-21-2014 at 10:38am
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Clearwater and Tristate were the 2 that were used ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: January-21-2014 at 11:08am
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A hole in the side of a well taken care of engine is pretty rare, certainly untouched bottom ends going 2-3x as many hours are much more common than ones that have a serious failure. That being said I replace perfectly good engines all the time “while I have it out” so who am I to judge. A huge part of freshening up an engine is going through the heads. Certainly as important (more important in my mind) than getting into a bottom end that isn’t showing signs of problems. That being said if you are truly talking about a “fresh long block” that would include minimally a valve job on the heads. Depending on the market that is usually at least a few hundred dollars, and the quality of the work and valves used varies greatly- remanufactured gt40p (gt40 heads are more expensive and no better than the gt40p for this application) heads are available for about 450 a pair from Clearwater cylinder head – they are superior to the stock heads in every way. They have a smaller combustion chamber (that bumps up the compression without moving away from stock piston geometry) with a more efficient spark plug location, which happens in our applications to make the spark plugs also easier to change. They also flow better and are typically a better quality casting (and haven’t been in a boat for the last 15 years). With absolutely no other changes you would pick up on the order of 40 hp for a couple benjamins over the cost of reworking what you have. With an intake and cam change as well you would see a little more, with an intake and cam alone you are not likely to see as nearly much of a change as the heads alone unless you went so aggressive you changed the idle character/reliability of the engine. The stock exhaust is not especially restrictive, the pcm pyramid design supports considerable hp increases, there is some evidence to support that moving the risers from 3 to 3.5 inch helps a bit but unless you were going for a hundred hp increase I wouldn’t be worried about the stock manifolds beyone perhaps a slight clean up with a die grinder. Love the spare prop holder. – don’t walk into that thing. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: inglesideshawn
Date Posted: January-26-2014 at 1:37pm
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For a "low hour" engine its got considerable amount of cylinder wear (ridge). the rear main leak to a oil pan with a pin hole in it,was drinking a quart of oil at each check, for a 20 year old engine kind of acceptable . todays project is a spin on fuel filter, and the distributor. looks like theirs two different springs in it and is quite difficult to advance. the housing is going to get bead blasted,the weights are getting new springs set up on a machine. ------------- 1989 nautique |
Posted By: Bones71
Date Posted: January-26-2014 at 1:42pm
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I've got my fuel filter housing out right now. I thought I would clean it up and paint it over the winter. I plan on putting a pet cock valve on the bottom to drain the thing periodically over the summer. Does anyone else have a quick drain on theirs? ------------- That money talks, I'll not deny, I heard it once: It said 'Goodbye' |
Posted By: inglesideshawn
Date Posted: January-26-2014 at 1:46pm
 The old filter housing cut off.  new style spin on filter. ------------- 1989 nautique |
Posted By: inglesideshawn
Date Posted: January-26-2014 at 1:49pm
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Is their room to put a drain? ------------- 1989 nautique |
Posted By: Bones71
Date Posted: January-26-2014 at 1:54pm
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I might have to put a 90 degree elbow on it. I hope so. I think the filter is kind of dumb if it's hard to drain. I would have fuel all over my hands. I'm gonna try to put that valve on it. It's a small one. I thought about doing what you are doing but like to keep things original if I can. Not that it's always a good thing. ------------- That money talks, I'll not deny, I heard it once: It said 'Goodbye' |
Posted By: inglesideshawn
Date Posted: January-26-2014 at 1:57pm
  with the weight of those springs it shall be interesting to see when the distributor was actually going to full advance. im thinking this was not stock. ------------- 1989 nautique |
Posted By: inglesideshawn
Date Posted: January-26-2014 at 2:09pm
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Original went out the window when I did the stringers. Now its more of improving on a design. Ide like to put a remote oil filter on to, just not quite sure were to mount it that would be a better location than were it currently is. or say cleaner ------------- 1989 nautique |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: January-26-2014 at 3:47pm
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Shawn, The two different size springs on the distributor advance is original. Just lube up the mechanism and see how it works. Why are you saying it's difficult to adjust? ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: January-26-2014 at 3:49pm
Don't think "ball valve". A pet cock is pretty short. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: inglesideshawn
Date Posted: January-28-2014 at 4:30am
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Should say its difficult to actuate the weights. Its got the wd40 treatment before. Now its getting fully disassembled and glass beaded and sutch. Im going to have it put on a machine and set up to advance around 2k. Weather it gets new springs or not I guess depends on how it does on the machine ------------- 1989 nautique |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: January-28-2014 at 8:06am
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Shawn, I don't have any use for WD40! After it evaporates, it doesn't leave much lubrication. Try LPS #2. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: inglesideshawn
Date Posted: January-28-2014 at 12:49pm
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Grease and is their a kit that has springs and a gear? ------------- 1989 nautique |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: January-28-2014 at 1:23pm
I had a shop work on my dizzy too - they extended the guide slots about 1/8 inch to give me more total advance. Doesn't look like rocket science but having a machine to verify is good thing. ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: January-28-2014 at 4:11pm
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The gear for that one isn't anything special, but you should be a little concerned about the springs. I would get those direct from pcm or the distributor manufacturer. You need to take into account the constant high loading of a marine engine when you get into curving that thing. Even a very good automotive shop could screw it up if they don’t have much marine background. It’s not rocket science and you don’t want to be too conservative but I have seen more than once where too early of a peak advance creates persistent heavy detonation. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: inglesideshawn
Date Posted: January-28-2014 at 5:18pm
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What's the recommended rpm for the advance weights to kick in with out causing detonation? ------------- 1989 nautique |
Posted By: phatsat67
Date Posted: January-28-2014 at 5:41pm
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Automotive usually has it all in by 2000 rpms. I think mine is all in around 3500 if memory serves me.. Joe and Tim have more performance tuning experience with stock stuff so they will weigh in correctly if I am wrong. Detonation ruins everyone's day. ------------- |
Posted By: MrMcD
Date Posted: January-29-2014 at 10:49pm
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I agree that Marine knowledge is needed for your advance curve. I have seen many pistons with the piston rings fractured, head gaskets blown out and even piston heads with holes burned in them from a little too much advance curve. If it is detonating things break. In the dyno lab a perfectly running 350 Chevy will make 600 psi in the cylinder at wide open throttle. Add a little too much timing introducing detonation and that cylinder pressure can jump to 3,500 PSI or more. This jump in pressure is what breaks parts. When timing is advanced a little past perfect the chamber gets hot, when it starts to glow red it can ignite the fuel charge early, this early lite off is Detonation, it tries to blow that piston back down in the hole with 7 other pistons pushing it up, creates extreme force on the piston, rings and head gasket. More timing can make power, too much will cause problems. |
Posted By: TX Foilhead
Date Posted: January-29-2014 at 11:25pm
| I'm going to have to agree, you're passing up some easy hp in the gt40p's and looking for a smaller gain with the timing that could potentially destroy the motor if it's not right. I'm not saying I wouldn't do it, but I certainly would have a really good idea about where I was going, and if it was safe or I would put it on a dyno first to find out. |
Posted By: inglesideshawn
Date Posted: June-23-2014 at 5:32pm
 new carb spacer drilled and taped for the pvc valve. ------------- 1989 nautique |
Posted By: inglesideshawn
Date Posted: June-23-2014 at 5:48pm
 epoxy primed ------------- 1989 nautique |
Posted By: inglesideshawn
Date Posted: June-23-2014 at 6:00pm
 one piece oil pan gasket,new pumps on and a new pan. the biggest oil leak was from the cast dip stick mount that's riveted to the pan. theirs a cork gasket, that probily could of been replaced and then bolted back up. I went the new pan route though. ------------- 1989 nautique |
Posted By: inglesideshawn
Date Posted: June-23-2014 at 6:03pm
hold a about the same and clears the blige with no problem. ------------- 1989 nautique |
Posted By: inglesideshawn
Date Posted: June-23-2014 at 6:08pm
all together and epoxy primed  ------------- 1989 nautique |
Posted By: inglesideshawn
Date Posted: June-23-2014 at 6:11pm
 all new rubber for the mounts, blasted and painted. ------------- 1989 nautique |
Posted By: inglesideshawn
Date Posted: June-23-2014 at 6:17pm
 The engine and trans got shot with a gun all together. it looks awesome, and with all the bolts and washers painted their should be no rust. ------------- 1989 nautique |
Posted By: inglesideshawn
Date Posted: June-23-2014 at 6:22pm
 little more progress, the engines back in and the alignments done. just have to finish up the exaust manifolds and start making plug wires ------------- 1989 nautique |
Posted By: inglesideshawn
Date Posted: June-23-2014 at 6:32pm
 Manifolds on and time for some wiring. hopefully get the carb and timeing set next ------------- 1989 nautique |
Posted By: SNobsessed
Date Posted: June-23-2014 at 8:38pm
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Looks Great! ------------- “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Ben Franklin |
Posted By: gun-driver
Date Posted: June-24-2014 at 10:52am
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Carb looks like she's standing pretty tall hope it fits under the hood. Nice work. 
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Posted By: inglesideshawn
Date Posted: June-24-2014 at 2:46pm
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I originally checked the carb height with the alignment not set and it was close. I ended up putting a 1.5 inch carb spacer with that manifold combo . The other problem was the throttle bracket, so I cut and just lengthend it or say brang it up the total rise of the new height and everything's starting to lign up. Also ended up putting the coil on the left side . Then with the chainge in carb height a new fuel line had to be bent up again. ------------- 1989 nautique |