MSD Marine distributor
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Engine Repair
Forum Discription: Engine problems and solutions
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=33294
Printed Date: October-07-2024 at 6:28am
Topic: MSD Marine distributor
Posted By: backfoot100
Subject: MSD Marine distributor
Date Posted: April-08-2014 at 6:46pm
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As most of you know, I'm a huge fan of MSD distributors and ignitions as I've been running one in my boat for well over a decade. I had it installed in my engine before my rebuild and reused it after. MSD is good but you needed the distributor and the ignition box to make everything work in perfect harmony. I was on MSD's website and I found https://www.msdignition.com/info.aspx?taxid=40&taxid2=192" rel="nofollow - this . It's a ready to run distributor that includes the ignition box built into the distributor!!! No more stand alone box to hook up. Just drop the distributor in the engine and hook up three wires. Includes a completely adjustable advance setup which I can tell you is a breeze to adjust. I know several here are DUI fanatics but this MSD unit looks to be the cats nuts and available for SBF and SBC marine engines. Anyone looking to replace a distributor should definitely give this some consideration. ------------- When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded. Eddie |
Replies:
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: April-08-2014 at 7:05pm
| Eddie, where do you see the application for the SBF (presumably 302 and/or 351w)? I only see the 351C/460. |
Posted By: Waterdog
Date Posted: April-08-2014 at 7:28pm
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It's cool to see a new marine distributor. I looked around the web site, didn't see any SBF Windsor stuff STD. or R/R ? ------------- - waterdog - http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=3896&sort=&pagenum=2&yrstart=1978&yrend=1978" rel="nofollow - 78 Ski Tique |
Posted By: Dreaming
Date Posted: April-08-2014 at 9:54pm
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the $400 price tag looks pretty nice compared to the SKIDIM kit for my protec conversion.... I'll have to keep a look out for the 351w version |
Posted By: backfoot100
Date Posted: April-08-2014 at 10:25pm
Damn Tim, I just saw the 351/460 and assumed it was the Windsor. That's what I get for assuming. Think it might be a typo? Seeing as there are probably very few 460 marine engines out there in the overall scheme of things and even fewer 351C marine applications (like none that were ever marinized that I'm aware of) it just doesn't make sense to me that they have a distributor for those engines and not a Windsor. Maybe those engines use the same distributor by default? ------------- When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded. Eddie |
TRBenj wrote:Posted By: JoeinNY
Date Posted: April-08-2014 at 10:57pm
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Same distributor, different gear for the small block as the big block, why msd doesnt sell it with the right gear all ready to go... well cause they hate me, or because the market is in big block jet boats that race and spend big money on go fast parts. If you go with a vic jr intake manifold though be advised the ready to run distributor is too big and you need to go with the older school distributor and box setup (and you will need to grind a little bit on both the intake and distributor body). *edit* that distributor works with a 351W small block with a gear change it does not work with a 302w... ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1477 - 1983 Ski Nautique 2001 1967 Mustang 302 "Decoy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5MkcBXBBs - Holeshot Video |
Posted By: jbear
Date Posted: April-08-2014 at 11:35pm
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uhh..ski partner..do I need one of these? And if so..will you put it on? If I remember correctly you have a "MDS" thing mounted to your motor box..which is somewhere I never go without adult supervision. john edit: just went to your link..how hard can this be? only 3 wires! ------------- "Loud pipes save lives" AdamT sez "I'm Canadian and a beaver lover myself"... |
Posted By: kytom2
Date Posted: April-08-2014 at 11:49pm
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That's 2 too many for you Jbear! ------------- |
Posted By: wholman
Date Posted: April-09-2014 at 5:20am
| The distributor that you're talking about does have a Cleveland gear and as was said before all you have to do is swap the gear for windsor gear and you're good to go. It does run fine without the ignition box but if you use the msd box you gain the multiple sparks. With the just the distributor you get single sparks. I've used my mine with and without the box and it works great either way but I have the box hooked up in the boat because I like having mtiple sparks. Better idle and more power down low is what they say. |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: April-09-2014 at 10:35am
Eddie here is a picture of one in a Donzi,looks professionally done so there must be more of them. Holman Moody filter assy,could be possible they marinized them? I would guess it's advantage would be in high rpm operation so ski boats would be out?  ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: April-09-2014 at 10:45am
In John's defence,it's not the number of wires he'd have trouble with, it's what he'd do with that one extra wire after he's spliced up the pair  ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: Riley
Date Posted: April-09-2014 at 10:47am
Here's a Donzi with a Boss 302 engine. DHart and I looked at it last fall and we didn't know what we were looking at, but the other day I ran into someone I knew that said they were the 2nd owner of that boat, and they said the original owner swapped out the original H/M engine for a new crate Boss 302 engine. This boat was priced too high last fall at $16k, but has since been lowered to $9900. Are these Cleveland heads? It's definitely different than a regular 302.
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Posted By: halfnelly
Date Posted: April-09-2014 at 10:48am
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Not sure if any OEMs marinized them, but the Aussies have been doing it. Clevelands are basically as plentiful there as Windsors are here. I know there are some companies that specialize in marine conversion parts for them, such as these: http://www.kmrolco.com/Price_List.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.kmrolco.com/Price_List.html http://www.cassellmarine.com.au/c/217788/1/velvet-drive-conversion.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.cassellmarine.com.au/c/217788/1/velvet-drive-conversion.html |
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: April-09-2014 at 10:59am
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In simple terms Bruce a Boss was a 302 with Cleveland heads.The valves were canted in the castings \ / as opposed to a Windsor's | | to help with flow but in reality the blocks were stronger castings too for instance the core plugs were threaded in rather than the Windsors press in ones. You can put Cleveland heads on a Windsor motor but it requires machining and a special intake. ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: halfnelly
Date Posted: April-09-2014 at 11:10am
| Putting Cleveland heads on a Windsor block (a Clevor) used to be the hot setup before everyone started making aftermarket Windsor heads. The big valves and sewer pipe-sized ports make for a pretty high winding motor. They're not too common nowadays because the Windsor heads have gotten so good it's not worth the extra effort, especially just to use heavy iron castings. |
Posted By: GottaSki
Date Posted: April-09-2014 at 11:13am
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Thats cartainly looks like the real deal, as Cleveland heads' valve covers have 8 bolts vs 6 for the Windsors. One potentially awesome option is the Kaase P38 canted valve heads, the ports are made to match std windsor configuration. ------------- "There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing." River Rat to Mole |
Posted By: backfoot100
Date Posted: April-09-2014 at 2:25pm
I just talked with MSD tech support and he confirmed what Joe and wholman have stated. Change the gear and the 351C/460 unit would work in the Windsor. I asked if there has ever been discussion about making a Windsor distributor available and he said they ask the question to R&D constantly. The R&D guys must know something we don't. Maybe you Ford guys need to come to your senses and get into bowties  Still would be a nice replacement even if you need to change gears. Definitely worth looking into anyway. ------------- When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded. Eddie |
Posted By: backfoot100
Date Posted: April-09-2014 at 2:34pm
I could talk you through the three wires easy enough. As soon as the distributor gets pulled and you see that gaping hole on top is when I don't want you anywhere near it...LOL Your boat runs too good with points. If the distributor ever decides to give up the ghost, we'll talk. If it aint broke, don't fix it. ------------- When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded. Eddie |
Posted By: jbear
Date Posted: April-11-2014 at 1:43am
now this is the kind of engine talk I can understand.... 9am saturday morning date? john ------------- "Loud pipes save lives" AdamT sez "I'm Canadian and a beaver lover myself"... |
Posted By: seacamper
Date Posted: August-07-2016 at 10:28pm
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So Eddie, I STILL have the minor stumble under a heavy load in the 75 SN. I have got to think that it is the distributor/points at this point, and after checking compression, timing, dwell, etc, I am thinking it is weak spark induced by 40+ year old distributor/weights/springs/moving parts. What do you think about this upgrade? https://www.msdperformance.com/products/distributors/marine_distributors/parts/83506" rel="nofollow - MSD ------------- 1980 Ski Nautique Boat Bar 1988 Mastercraft Tristar Open Bow 1988 Mastercraft Tristar Closed Bow 1969 Seacamper Houseboat 1986 Harris Pontoon 2004 Seadoo GTX SC + Flydive Xboard 1999 Adventurecraft |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: August-07-2016 at 10:48pm
Hi I'm not Eddie (he's better looking than me ) but if you read back thru this thread and look at your link, you'll see that it has the wrong gear for a 351 Windsor.It's got a gear for a LH rotation 351w/429/460 Ford. You would need a gear for a RH rotation 351 Windsor. Pretty sure MSD doesn't make one of them You'll probably have a few people telling you to get a DUI distributor cause they think it's the best thing since sliced bread and then Pete will jump in and make a point about keeping points in it. KenO |
Posted By: seacamper
Date Posted: August-07-2016 at 10:57pm
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Ahhhh. I will look at the DUI product and listen to Pete's sage advice. ------------- 1980 Ski Nautique Boat Bar 1988 Mastercraft Tristar Open Bow 1988 Mastercraft Tristar Closed Bow 1969 Seacamper Houseboat 1986 Harris Pontoon 2004 Seadoo GTX SC + Flydive Xboard 1999 Adventurecraft |
Posted By: seacamper
Date Posted: August-07-2016 at 11:06pm
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So I am assuming I would order the "351 W 7000 rpm Reverse Rotation" distributor, and it will be a crap shoot on whether it will fit?? http://performancedistributors.com/product/marine-dui-distributors/" rel="nofollow - DUI I am interested in "vabration proofing" my distributor. The DUI Advantage Virtually Waterproof Vabration Proof Fully Electronic One Wire Hookup 7000 and 10,000 RPM Versions ------------- 1980 Ski Nautique Boat Bar 1988 Mastercraft Tristar Open Bow 1988 Mastercraft Tristar Closed Bow 1969 Seacamper Houseboat 1986 Harris Pontoon 2004 Seadoo GTX SC + Flydive Xboard 1999 Adventurecraft |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: August-08-2016 at 10:04am
 I bet the picture above looks an awful lot like your engine. Hard to tell from your picture but it looks like there would be plenty of clearance between the distributor cap and the thermostat housing/hoses, so not so much of a crap shoot as a PCM engine. Maybe it's even vibration proof too but yea you should be interested in vabration proofing it too Kinda reminds me of the Beach Boys Good, good, good Vabrations . |
Posted By: backfoot100
Date Posted: August-08-2016 at 10:21am
Whew, back from a week of vacation and trying to get back into the routine. +1 on what Ken said. The MSD would work but you'll need to find a RH gear and MSD doesn't offer one. The good news is that we have this local machine guy that's pretty good whom you also know. I would bet my next paycheck that he can make your old gear fit perfectly on any dizzy you decide to put in. MSD or DUI. That is unless the old gear is damaged in any way. I'm pretty biased toward the MSD but the DUI is obviously very proven. The only plus I see with the MSD is that the advance curve is completely adjustable to how you and the boat want it. The DUI isn't. I think the MSD would probably not experience the diameter fitment issues that several here have experienced either. If you're willing to be a test mule and knowing we have a good machinist at our disposal, I'd be very willing to help you help you try one out. That is a bummer about the hesitation. I know you've tried two or three different carbs, a complete tune up and checking over everything else you can think of. ------------- When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded. Eddie |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: August-08-2016 at 11:28am
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First of all, I'm not convinced the dizzy/points are your source of hesitation out of the hole. That is more likely to be a fuel issue from my experience... And I know of many points boats that jump out of the water. That said, ignition upgrades can be nice if your dizzy is getting a little sloppy. I have 2 DUI's and am a fan of their performance and simplicity. Joe and Eddie both have awesome running boats so MSD is a great option, too- if you can figure out the gear. Regarding the curve, Eddie may have been talking about curving the advance at home- though j don't see why you couldn't do the same on a DUI with standard HEI parts. Davis can curve to whatever specs you wan when you order. |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: August-08-2016 at 12:02pm
I think the same thing as TRB on this but it sounds like you want a new distributor. May not help but it can't hurt. |
Posted By: seacamper
Date Posted: August-09-2016 at 1:28am
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I am getting a bit worn out tweaking the carb. I will go through it again. Sigh. ------------- 1980 Ski Nautique Boat Bar 1988 Mastercraft Tristar Open Bow 1988 Mastercraft Tristar Closed Bow 1969 Seacamper Houseboat 1986 Harris Pontoon 2004 Seadoo GTX SC + Flydive Xboard 1999 Adventurecraft |
Posted By: Duane in Indy
Date Posted: August-09-2016 at 6:58am
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I had a stumble when I would give it hard throttle from idle. Rebuilt carb knowing it was the accelerator pump. Hmm, same stumble. Even switched to another carb I had. Same stumble. Hmm again. Check timing and found that initial was OK but the total timing was not consistent. It would either not come in or come in late. Went to MSD dizzy and it was fixed. Had to replace gear with a new one as stated before. Three wire hook up was a breeze. One to coil, one to ground, and one to key 12 volt hot. Total advance is adjustable also. One can argue points or EI all they want but try to buy a new internal combustion engine with points. Good luck with that. Everybody changed over for a reason. (Am not a fan of EI conversion modules that you drop into a points dizzy. They tend to be flakey) This should open a can of worms.  ------------- Keep it as original as YOU want it 1978 Mustang (modified) |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: August-09-2016 at 8:50am
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Hi Duane I think that can has been opened a hundred times before this. It's like Ford vs Chevy What's the best oil What's the best oil filter What's the best coil Gilligan or Mary Ann And the list goes on and on KenO PS Mary Ann gets my vote |
Posted By: backfoot100
Date Posted: August-09-2016 at 10:15am
I agree completely. Conversions have been somewhat of issue for several here but a new electronic dizzy is the cats nuts. I know that Tom has done numerous carbs, timing, tuning and messing around with anything and everything. A new dizzy certainly couldn't hurt. ------------- When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded. Eddie |
Posted By: Jonny Quest
Date Posted: August-09-2016 at 12:04pm
Glad you opted for Mary Ann. I'd have had real concerns if you went for Gilligan... ------------- Current 2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: August-09-2016 at 12:07pm
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Pertonix module failures in the lead by far, like a log scale. Prestolite and Mallory hardly any. |
Posted By: Duane in Indy
Date Posted: August-09-2016 at 12:14pm
Agreed  ------------- Keep it as original as YOU want it 1978 Mustang (modified) |
Posted By: Dreaming
Date Posted: August-09-2016 at 2:25pm
Just curious if this exercise of tweaking involves your ear and gut feel, or are you using a vacuum gauge, timing light etc.? If you are using the appropriate tools, it seems like you can only tweak and check so many times before you're having an exercise in futility, and I totally get your frustration with that. If you are using your subjective senses to get this right, you could be in for a long ride. I guess what I am getting at is that the right tools make a huge difference in getting an accurate result/reading. A timing light with dwell, offset, rpm, etc. is a great help for finding ignition problems, carb issues are harder to nail down, but a vacuum gauge makes the idle adjustment much easier. Do you have an idle vacuum reading? What is your timing set to at Idle (rpm?) What is your total timing @ 3000 RPM How is your accelerator pump adjustment? |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: August-09-2016 at 8:33pm
Now speaking of Gilligan and friends, as urban legend would have it, the SS Minnow had a Chevy V-8 engine in it and the crew became stranded when their state of the art points ignition system died on them. The professor is alleged to have tried to get it straightened out with a nail file he borrowed from Ginger but they were so badly pitted that nothing would help, and so began their 3 year adventure. When they got rescued, the professor set about developing an electronic module that could replace the points and the rest as they say is history. Rumor has it that he carries a spare points set mounted on a breaker plate with him.......just in case. And he still has Ginger's nail file too. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: August-09-2016 at 11:30pm
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Ken, Good one!! My stomach muscles are sore from my laughing! ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: KENO
Date Posted: August-09-2016 at 11:32pm
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Glad you enjoyed it Pete KenO |
Posted By: seacamper
Date Posted: August-11-2016 at 10:22pm
Hey Duane, that is exactly what I am thinking. ------------- 1980 Ski Nautique Boat Bar 1988 Mastercraft Tristar Open Bow 1988 Mastercraft Tristar Closed Bow 1969 Seacamper Houseboat 1986 Harris Pontoon 2004 Seadoo GTX SC + Flydive Xboard 1999 Adventurecraft |
Posted By: seacamper
Date Posted: August-11-2016 at 10:44pm
Hey Kris, I think you are correct also. I think my skills are just not there to dial this in. That is why I am trying to eliminate some of the issues. I guess I will pull out the manual and try and remember how to set the points by dwell and then set the timing. I will brush up on total timing at 3000rpm because I have never even heard of that! Then I will tweak the carb adjustments. It is sad, because it is so close!! If I was not so anal over smooth acceleration, I would probably just ignore the problem because it happens about once in every 10 pulls. It seems more prevalent after things get hot. ------------- 1980 Ski Nautique Boat Bar 1988 Mastercraft Tristar Open Bow 1988 Mastercraft Tristar Closed Bow 1969 Seacamper Houseboat 1986 Harris Pontoon 2004 Seadoo GTX SC + Flydive Xboard 1999 Adventurecraft |