1993 BF Nautique Electrical Gremlins
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Boat Maintenance
Forum Discription: Discuss maintenance of your Correct Craft
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=33552
Printed Date: November-17-2024 at 4:32pm
Topic: 1993 BF Nautique Electrical Gremlins
Posted By: rileylaker
Subject: 1993 BF Nautique Electrical Gremlins
Date Posted: May-11-2014 at 12:53pm
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Hey guys. Looking for some help here. I have a 1993 Barefoot Nautique with a ProTec 454. Last year I replaced the original alternator which had the external voltage regulator with an alternator that has the volt reg integrated. The new alternator should have higher amps at idle but it does not. Its so low that the perfect pass cyclces on and off and that causes throttle cable problems from the servo spooling up. Wondering if there is a problem running a newer style alternator with an older boat? Could the old voltage regulator be sucking up some of the power from this new alternator? If so, where the heck is the voltage regulator? Is it built into the protec box somewhere? Or is it independent some place else? The old alternator was a 3 wire configuration and this new one is a 2. I tied back the unused wire assuming it feeds the voltage reg in some way. Could this be the problem? Also ran a new ground from the dash back to help the dash. Any suggestions out there? Thanks in advance. |
Replies:
Posted By: TX Foilhead
Date Posted: May-11-2014 at 1:00pm
| It's the undersized wiring to the dash that's most likely the problem. Brian, Bri892001, has some good treads with pics about how to fix it. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: May-11-2014 at 2:30pm
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Jake, I feel Don is correct with the wiring to the dash. You ran a new ground to the dash but do the same for the positive. Make sure both are a wire gauge that will handle the load as well as the run (distance). There are plenty of threads here that cover the issue. Get some volt readings at the alternator and at the dash. Clean ALL connections and use dielectric grease when putting them back together. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Orlando76
Date Posted: May-11-2014 at 3:04pm
+1 Dielectric grease should be in every boating tool box. Keep in mind with 12v DC, there is no such thing as "too big of a wire" so hopefully when you run new wires you keep this in mind. With 12v DC, resistance is a battle, if the connection looks questionable, then no doubt it is bad. Don't forget connections in the engine bay too! I don't know if this will solve the gremlins but it definitely is additive. |
8122pbrainard wrote:Posted By: Air206
Date Posted: May-11-2014 at 3:49pm
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While the dash wiring is going to cause a voltage drop, it shouldn't be one of THAT magnitude that the PP is cycled on/off.... got to be an alternator output problem..... Since the change occurred AFTER the alternator swap (right?), check the alternator output AND grounding...... there have been such things as crappy replacement alternators, esp if not wired in/grounded correctly. Start with alternator and work forward.... tracing down dash gremlins isn't fun - esp if your power source is messed up. Start at the back and work forward...... Enjoy that Excel and the spacious engine compartment! :) ------------- https://tinyurl.com/y6t5e3bu" rel="nofollow - 04 Air206 http://tinyurl.com/9urzgls" rel="nofollow - 91 Barefoot 78 SkiTiq |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: May-11-2014 at 4:36pm
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Jake, One more thing. You didn't by chance get the new alternator at Autozone did you??  If so, then you sure went to the worst place!! BTW, hopefully the new one is marine rated.Also understand that with a higher amp alternator, you do need to upgrade the wire size. Just a new ground wire isn't going to do it. Have you increased the load from the dash. ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: May-11-2014 at 10:31pm
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Just want to clarify one more thing. A 93 never would have had an external voltage regulator. By then, they were already internal. According to Tim/Pete's diagram below, one (of the 3) wire is the "exciter", one is the ground, and one is the output. I have heard of the modern one's being "self exciting" so I think that's the wire that doesn't get used. I've also heard the term "one wire alternator". I'm thinking the one wire kind gets rid of the ground wire as well and uses the alternator bracket as the ground. You just have to confirm what wire on your new alternator is doing what, and make sure that is tying into the correct ones on the engine wiring harness. Well, you also have to make sure it's a quality alternator as mentioned above. Dash upgrade thread: http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21901&title=added-new-dash-ground-to-93-with-pics" rel="nofollow - http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21901&title=added-new-dash-ground-to-93-with-pics Diagram:  |
Posted By: TX Foilhead
Date Posted: May-11-2014 at 11:25pm
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The one wire alternator just has one wire it the output, the case grounds to the block so any ground wire is getting a ground from the alternator. They aren't the best idea because they don't have any way to sense what kind of output the need. They're fine for a regular load, but when you start adding lots of options like heaters, stereo ect they don't know what to do and that can cause issues. I had to spend the writer actually learning how an alternator works and why the boat is wired the way it is. I learned a few interesting things along the way. In addition to the need to have more than one wire I also learned why there is a difference in in which way the alternator rotates. I've always thought it didn't mater and while that is true for the output, the direction the fan turns does make a difference. |
Posted By: TRBenj
Date Posted: May-11-2014 at 11:28pm
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It's generally good troubleshooting to begin investigating changes that coincide with a new issue, but in this case it just doesn't add up. A malfunctioning alternator is not going to cause perfect pass issues. PP (as well as the ignition and all other accessories) are just as content to run off the battery as they are the alternator- after all, they're connected together. The sign of a bad alt is usually a dead battery since it isn't being recharged. PP is sensitive to low voltage and these boats are notorious for voltage drops at the dash due to small-ish wiring and corrosion in the wires and connectors. That's where I'd be looking first. |
Posted By: rileylaker
Date Posted: May-12-2014 at 12:00am
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Thanks for the responses guys. Was away from my computer all day. I will do some more investigation with a tester this weekend. Some more details to ponder in the mean time: Bought the boat 3 years ago after it had been sitting for 5 years. As soon as I bought it, I put in the PP and it always seemed to have low voltage issues causing it to cycle at idle. Turns out the alternator was pooched so I replaced it. With the new alternator, the volt meter on the dash went from 11v with the old one to 13+ with the new one so I thought I had that problem licked. In an effort to help the hydraulic sun pad function better I ran some 8 gauge to the hatch power and then grounded the entire dash a 2nd time. Made the hatch work way better but I did not run a 2nd positive to the dash itself, just to power the hatch. Where it gets weird is with the new alternator. It's like it is not putting out more than 11v at idle. Tested the batter w/o engine running and got around 12.4 v then again with the engine running and got 13.4 ish volts so seems like it's getting ok voltage. So why the PP power cycles? PP volt gauge is reading 11v which makes sense why it's cycling. The old alternator did not have a volt reg built in as it was original '93 PCM issue. The new one was from NAPA and is their own marine brand with the integrated volt reg. New battery, no change. Some great suggestions above so I will clean all terminals and add dielectric grease as well and see what results I get. I will also retest the output of the alternator at the back and at the front and post the findings. Does anyone know for certain if I need to attach that "exciter" line that was originally connected to the stock alternator back onto a 12v source like alt output? Or can I leave it tied back? Could the original voltage regulator be causing me any issues? Thanks in advance. Cheers! |
Posted By: TX Foilhead
Date Posted: May-12-2014 at 1:43am
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I'm with everyone else on the boat shouldn't have had an external regulator, mine didn't. Hard to say exactly what to do since it sounds like you might be dealing with somebody else's 'fix' already. Pirate 4x4 has a wounderful explanation about how things should work and how to wire an alternator, look at that and see what you're missing. |
Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: May-12-2014 at 2:40am
This probably has more to do with just dash wiring issues than anything. Usually with the engine running, you get enough of a voltage boost to overcome the weak wiring. But, at the end of the day, the positive feed to the dash is probably marginal, the dash power breaker could be weak, the wiring from the breaker to the key could be weak, and the key itself could be weak. The stock wiring is pretty skinny, and you could be losing volts, which Perfect Pass doesn't like.
That's a tough question unless you know what the alternator needs. If the alternator doesn't call for it then you don't need it. Try to see if you can get a wiring diagram for that alternator. |