GT40 stops after letting go of button
Printed From: CorrectCraftFan.com
Category: Repairs and Maintenance
Forum Name: Engine Repair
Forum Discription: Engine problems and solutions
URL: http://www.CorrectCraftFan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=35039
Printed Date: November-21-2024 at 4:37pm
Topic: GT40 stops after letting go of button
Posted By: rrichr
Subject: GT40 stops after letting go of button
Date Posted: November-16-2014 at 3:39pm
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I have gone through in as much detail as I can the Poor Mans GT40 section without the proper tools… I do not have a lanyard as it is bypassed and I even checked the connection of the wires as it was this way when I bought it. I checked the 20amp fuse at the battery and tried the jumper to the STO Connector and it does not seem to be turning on the full pump. I can make the engine run as long as I want by keeping my finger on the start button and it is only after I left go that it shuts off. There seems to be some kind of panel way under the dash next to my bilge pump override switch but I am not sure what it is for. I tried a new relay from Advanced auto and it did nothing different. I when around the engine looking for loose connections but nothing made a difference. I plan on making some jumper wires of various lengths and to bring my multi-tester with me next weekend. I don't have any of those tools at the lake. I do not have a Star Tester to follow the diagnostic steps in the GT40 Manual.. It is a Boss 5.8 in a 2001' year Ski Nautique Any help would be appreciated. |
Replies:
Posted By: Gary S
Date Posted: November-16-2014 at 6:25pm
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I'd be the last one to know but I wonder if it's something to do with the key pad. Or something not sensing that it's running kills the power,kinda why I wanted to avoid having a key pad. I'm sure someone in the know will answer by tomorrow ------------- http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=1711&sort=&pagenum=1&yrstart=1966&yrend=1970" rel="nofollow - 69 Mustang HM SS 95 Nautique Super Sport |
Posted By: quinner
Date Posted: November-16-2014 at 7:57pm
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That's easy, Don't stop pushing the start button! Would suspect the keypad like GearE mentioned but would also wonder if a low voltage issue? Have you gone through the electrical connections and cleaned as req'd?? |
Posted By: rrichr
Date Posted: November-16-2014 at 9:52pm
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I pulled the connections to the key pad and re-connected them. I am wondering if the is another connection somewhere for the safety switch that is by-passed that has come loose? When I checked the purple wires in the harness where the safety switch use to be there were a total of 3 that where purple with one of them not connected to anything and the other 2 where spliced together. So after sleeping on it I am thinking it is electrical... I must have fuel since I can start it and it will run for a little while. I have this breaker panel but I really can't see how it works... many just be a tripped breaker (Part#S6289)  Would the "start run" breaker be an issue if I can start and stop after 3 seconds? I would think I would not be able to even start based on the name of the breaker. |
Posted By: quinner
Date Posted: November-17-2014 at 3:14pm
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If the lanyard or it's bypass was a problem I don't think it would run at all. So you press and hold start and continue holding after it starts, does the starter remain engaged?? When you code up the keypad initially the green light should go on after your code and a single push of start, when you press start again that should be ignition, gauges should activate, you should hear fuel pumps prime, then pressing and holding start again should activate the starter. Is this what you are seeing/hearing?? |
Posted By: rrichr
Date Posted: November-17-2014 at 3:29pm
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No, the starter dis-engages when the rotation of the crank speeds up (I am sure there is a more technical answer) All of the above is what happens eccept I don't hear the fuel pump buzz.... I did the first time I activated the keypad after being away from it for a week. But every time it will start and run for 3 seconds more than I hold the starter button. The green led light go on in the proper sequence, right led blinks w/every code number and goes solid after code and start button are pushed. When I push the start button again the left (port) led goes solid green awaiting you to start it. |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: November-17-2014 at 3:38pm
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Get a voltmeter already. ------------- |
Posted By: rrichr
Date Posted: November-17-2014 at 3:45pm
| In my original post I spoke of what I will bring with me when I go to the lake. I would appreciate if you where able to provide me with points to use the volt meter however. |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: November-17-2014 at 3:50pm
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Sorry, it seemed like this thread was older than it really is. Fuel system. Battery -> pumps Ignition system. Battery -> plugs ------------- |
Posted By: rrichr
Date Posted: November-17-2014 at 4:05pm
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Thanks Hollywood, The actual plug? From a sequence perspective, becuase it will start and run, during? after it stops? or just for continuity? |
Posted By: Hollywood
Date Posted: November-17-2014 at 6:40pm
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In a nutshell, compare running to non-running. You shouldn't have to recreate the wheel for running, I would think the manuals available should hint at probable component failure. ------------- |
Posted By: jhersey29
Date Posted: November-17-2014 at 9:58pm
| Do you have the distributor bonnet on? I had rpm issues and shut off when the bonnet was removed and the spark plug wire was a little too close to the thick film ignition module. |
Posted By: rrichr
Date Posted: November-17-2014 at 10:21pm
| I don't have a cover over the plug wires... I will have to get one, those have to be generic. I will put on the list, thanks! |
Posted By: jhersey29
Date Posted: November-17-2014 at 11:07pm
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http://www.cjponyparts.com/distributor-cover-ford-5-0-1979-1993/p/DCC1/ Just push your spark plug wires on the port side towards the alternator and push the tfi-iv module wires away from the distributor to test. I found this issue using an intermittent ignition analyzer and took me a while to realize the module signal was getting really messed up by spark plug wires. You could also use a mtb tube cut in half to shield the ignition module wires. |
Posted By: rrichr
Date Posted: November-17-2014 at 11:49pm
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Thanks jhersy29, will do... What is an mtb tube? |
Posted By: jhersey29
Date Posted: November-18-2014 at 12:10am
| A mountain bicycle tube. 26 x 2.25 or anything close. Any rubber would work to shield the module. |
Posted By: rrichr
Date Posted: November-18-2014 at 12:12am
| Gotcha, will try tube first and put distributor cover on the list. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: November-18-2014 at 12:28am
http://www.cjponyparts.com/distributor-cover-ford-5-0-1979-1993/p/DCC1/" rel="nofollow - Distributor cover direct link ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
jhersey29 wrote:Posted By: rrichr
Date Posted: November-18-2014 at 10:09am
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Ordered it... free shipping:) All though I am not too confident that it will fix this problem it will sure avoid another. I would think if continuing to push the starter button and the engine actually settling down into idle and even the PerfectPass beeping saying it is ready my guess is I am going to find the problem either in poor connection somewhere actually off the engine. Whoever worked on the boat last did kind of a messy job around the relays but it is obvious that there was some work done. I know for one thing I am going to get to know this engine and other than messing with my skiing I enjoy working on engines/boats. |
Posted By: Dreaming
Date Posted: November-18-2014 at 4:16pm
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it sounds to me like the 12v is powering the start cycle, but gets cut off when you go to the run mode. if you had a key ign, I would suggest that your ignition is faulty, but since it is keypad start, I suspect that it is either an electronics issue that maintains the run power, or a wire that is missing. Check for 12v at input to the ignition coil when the keypad is in the "run position" I suspect you will find 0 volts. |
Posted By: rrichr
Date Posted: November-18-2014 at 4:46pm
| So when I am in start mode (the port side led is green on the keypad) vs. actually pushing the start button while in start mode I should have power to the coil? |
Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: November-19-2014 at 12:56pm
I agree with this check. Lewy2001 can probably speak to this better than I, but I would add your oil pressure switch to the list of things to check. When you're starting up, the oil pressure switch is over-ridden, because, you're obviously you're not going to have oil pressure until the motor is started. Once it's running, you should have oil pressure, and if the switch is saying you don't, it's going to shut things down so the motor doesn't get wrecked. |
Posted By: rrichr
Date Posted: November-19-2014 at 1:54pm
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Hmmm... I replaced my oil pressure switch about a month ago. I can disconnect that and still have the analog and see if it is the problem. Thanks I had replaced it becuase the old one failed and it would put me into limp mode. |
Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: November-19-2014 at 2:25pm
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About when did the 'stops after letting go' problem arise? |
Posted By: rrichr
Date Posted: November-19-2014 at 5:17pm
| Saturday... I have used the boat at least 5 different times since I replaced the oil pressure switch. |
Posted By: 8122pbrainard
Date Posted: November-19-2014 at 5:40pm
Brian, Your idea would have been too easy if the problem did occur when the pressure switch was replaced!   ------------- /diaries/details.asp?ID=1622" rel="nofollow - 54 Atom /diaries/details.asp?ID=2179" rel="nofollow - 77 Tique 64 X55 Dunphy Keep it original, Pete < |
Posted By: rrichr
Date Posted: November-19-2014 at 5:44pm
| Hey, I appreciate the thought and am going to take the time to disconnect it just becuase.... I thought that switch basically told the computer if it was above 5psi and when it went below that with the boat running it would put it into limp mode. Does it do more than that? |
Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: November-19-2014 at 5:58pm
That's a good point/question. If it puts it into limp mode, it would still let it run. So, I might be off there. |
Posted By: lewy2001
Date Posted: November-19-2014 at 7:20pm
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Brian from the described symptoms it may be a problem with the keypad and or PME Gateway box. I do not have the circuit diagram of a GT40 with this configuration. But as they still have the same EEC and fuel pump relay I assume that operation after the keypad and PME box is mostly the same as the standard ignition key GT40. The keypad is trigger mechanism to the PME Gateway to distribute power. Most of the electronics are inside this box. It distributes the power to the engine and throughout the boat. Test for voltage at EEC relay you should even be able to feel the relay click in and out with a finger. The 12V output from the EEC relay goes to the coil, TFI ignition module and ECM. It sounds like you are losing the activation power for the EEC relay so check terminal 85 on the relay for 12V. You will need to make up 4 short jumper wires for the relay to make testing easier with voltmeter. ------------- If you're going through hell, keep going http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2999" rel="nofollow - 89 Ski <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5685" ta |
Posted By: rrichr
Date Posted: November-19-2014 at 7:34pm
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So if I don't have 12v at the relay when the port led light on the keypad is green (meaning it is in start mode) I have a problem either in the keypad, PME Gateway box or the wiring between them and the relay. Is that correct? I am going to make a set of jump wires to add to my tools, I was thinking of various lengths with one end having an aligator clip and male connector on the other end, a set that has male on one end and female on the other. Any other suggestions of combinations? ends, lengths, guage? |
Posted By: lewy2001
Date Posted: November-19-2014 at 8:20pm
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Yes if 12V is not present on the activation terminal 85 the relay will not engage and the engine will not start. In a standard ignition key this happens with ignition in the on position before you turn to crank the engine on the starter. I have a set of 4 jumpers with a male and female on ends about 4"-6" long. ------------- If you're going through hell, keep going http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=2999" rel="nofollow - 89 Ski <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5685" ta |
Posted By: baitkiller
Date Posted: November-19-2014 at 8:26pm
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Dont let go of the button. All fixed. ------------- Jesus was a bare-footer............. |
Posted By: rrichr
Date Posted: November-20-2014 at 10:28am
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Bait killer, yes Jesus is "The barefooter" but even with Perfect pass I need that hand to drive😉 Lewy2001, built my jumper cables last night, cleaned my flame arrester, got my multi tester all ready to go to the lake. |
Posted By: rrichr
Date Posted: November-28-2014 at 8:41pm
| So education is a good thing and I have learned a lot about my boat.... All it was was the breaker in the breaker panel in the kick plate. I put the ignition boot on and cleaned up the wiring a bit near the relays. Went for 2 boat rides:) |
Posted By: jhersey29
Date Posted: November-28-2014 at 8:47pm
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Awesome!!!! Glad you found it. Did you put a new breaker in? Mine is currently at the machine shop and I am slowly working my way through rust removal on parts using Electrolysis. Fun stuff. Hope I remember how it goes back together in a few months. |
Posted By: rrichr
Date Posted: November-28-2014 at 8:52pm
| It was not even that difficult. The breakers are integrated and it just needed to be reset. |
Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: November-30-2014 at 1:31pm
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So, it was a breaker in this unit, right? I just want to get my facts straight, I'll post this fix to the GT-40 thread:
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Posted By: rrichr
Date Posted: November-30-2014 at 10:25pm
| That's correct. My boats actual circuits are different but this module, yes. |
Posted By: Bri892001
Date Posted: December-01-2014 at 12:41am
| Ok, cool. |